Throwaway GPS

[Scott Moore]

I thought for all of the GPS threads.

Next year, 2006, the government mandate for GPS inclusion in cell phones
starts. That means that eventually every cheap cell phone is going to have
a GPS.

GPS receivers are plentyfull now, but are getting set to proliferate into
a commondity part. The time is coming when instead of worrying about tying the
multiple GPS using instruments you have in your airplane, they all have their
own, and you have 3, 4 or more redundant GPS recievers in your airplane.

[Stubby]

Scott Moore wrote:
> I thought for all of the GPS threads.
>
> Next year, 2006, the government mandate for GPS inclusion in cell phones
> starts. That means that eventually every cheap cell phone is going to have
> a GPS.
>
> GPS receivers are plentyfull now, but are getting set to proliferate into
> a commondity part. The time is coming when instead of worrying about tying the
> multiple GPS using instruments you have in your airplane, they all have their
> own, and you have 3, 4 or more redundant GPS recievers in your airplane.
>
I believe the phone makers were trying to substitute a cell-tower
triangularization scheme so they didn't have to have a GPS in each
phone. I never heard what the outcome was, however. Note a GPS
chip-set is only $0.25 in 100,000 lots!

[Scott Moore]

Stubby wrote On 12/09/05 14:00,:
> Scott Moore wrote:
>
>>I thought for all of the GPS threads.
>>
>>Next year, 2006, the government mandate for GPS inclusion in cell phones
>>starts. That means that eventually every cheap cell phone is going to have
>>a GPS.
>>
>>GPS receivers are plentyfull now, but are getting set to proliferate into
>>a commondity part. The time is coming when instead of worrying about tying the
>>multiple GPS using instruments you have in your airplane, they all have their
>>own, and you have 3, 4 or more redundant GPS recievers in your airplane.
>>
>
> I believe the phone makers were trying to substitute a cell-tower
> triangularization scheme so they didn't have to have a GPS in each
> phone. I never heard what the outcome was, however. Note a GPS
> chip-set is only $0.25 in 100,000 lots!

They lost.

[Bob Gardner]

Yes and no. As I understand it, the new phones will be able to tell someone
where you are, so that they can come and give you CPR or offer armed
response, but it won't have a display that tells YOU where you are. So I
don't believe that they will be GPS's as we think of them.

Bob Gardner

"Scott Moore" > wrote in message
...
>I thought for all of the GPS threads.
>
> Next year, 2006, the government mandate for GPS inclusion in cell phones
> starts. That means that eventually every cheap cell phone is going to have
> a GPS.
>
> GPS receivers are plentyfull now, but are getting set to proliferate into
> a commondity part. The time is coming when instead of worrying about tying
> the
> multiple GPS using instruments you have in your airplane, they all have
> their
> own, and you have 3, 4 or more redundant GPS recievers in your airplane.
>

[Mitty]

On 12/9/2005 5:48 PM, Bob Gardner wrote the following:
> Yes and no. As I understand it, the new phones will be able to tell someone
> where you are, so that they can come and give you CPR or offer armed
> response, but it won't have a display that tells YOU where you are. So I
> don't believe that they will be GPS's as we think of them.
>

But do they even do that with GPS? It would seem to be
easier to do approximate location via reporting which
cell(s) the phone is hitting and maybe its signal amplitude.
Not as accurate of course.

If it's really GPS I can't imagine that the manufacturers
wouldn't somehow add it to the list of toys the phone makes
available to the user.

[Andrew Sarangan]

If the cellphone is able to transmit its GPS co-ordinates, surely it
should also be able to give that same information to the user.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Andrew Sarangan" > said:
>If the cellphone is able to transmit its GPS co-ordinates, surely it
>should also be able to give that same information to the user.

Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better hidden
menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it, the
cell phone company terms of service allows them the option to spam you
with text messages advertising businesses local to where you are.

There is also a program somebody wrote using the Google Maps API where you
and a community of friends can always see where the other members of your
community are at any time based on the GPS coordinates of their cell
phones.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"You are installing Internet Explorer 4.0. Windows NT needs to overwrite
all your system dll's and restart your computer. Note that this
application is NOT part of the operating system. Good luck."

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better hidden
> menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it, the
> cell phone company terms of service allows them the option to spam you
> with text messages advertising businesses local to where you are.

what's the name of this cell provider? I want to make sure that I never
ever buy anything from them.

Thanks

--
Bob Noel
New NHL? what a joke

[Stubby]

Bob Noel wrote:
> In article >,
> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>
>
>>Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better hidden
>>menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it, the
>>cell phone company terms of service allows them the option to spam you
>>with text messages advertising businesses local to where you are.
>
>
> what's the name of this cell provider? I want to make sure that I never
> ever buy anything from them.

What's wrong with that if it works?

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Stubby > wrote:

> > what's the name of this cell provider? I want to make sure that I never
> > ever buy anything from them.
>
> What's wrong with that if it works?

I try to avoid doing business with companies that spam.

--
Bob Noel
New NHL? what a joke

[Andrew Sarangan]

It would be fine if the user has the option of turning it off.

[[email protected]]

Bob Noel wrote:
> In article >,
> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>
>
>>Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better hidden
>>menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it, the
>>cell phone company terms of service allows them the option to spam you
>>with text messages advertising businesses local to where you are.
>
>
> what's the name of this cell provider? I want to make sure that I never
> ever buy anything from them.
>
> Thanks
>

All of them most likely. There isn't a wireless company that gives a
squat about their customers. It's all about sales and revenue.

[Bob Gardner]

Lets's see what we can do with that...add a GPS display to our camera
phone...why not a tiny printer? How much junk can be accomodated on
something as small as today's phones?

Bob Gardner

"Mitty" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/9/2005 5:48 PM, Bob Gardner wrote the following:
>> Yes and no. As I understand it, the new phones will be able to tell
>> someone where you are, so that they can come and give you CPR or offer
>> armed response, but it won't have a display that tells YOU where you are.
>> So I don't believe that they will be GPS's as we think of them.
>>
>
> But do they even do that with GPS? It would seem to be easier to do
> approximate location via reporting which cell(s) the phone is hitting and
> maybe its signal amplitude. Not as accurate of course.
>
> If it's really GPS I can't imagine that the manufacturers wouldn't somehow
> add it to the list of toys the phone makes available to the user.

[Matt Barrow]

> wrote in message news:cYCmf.273$z21.55@fed1read04...
> Bob Noel wrote:
>> In article >,
>> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better
>>>hidden
>>>menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it, the
>>>cell phone company terms of service allows them the option to spam you
>>>with text messages advertising businesses local to where you are.
>>
>>
>> what's the name of this cell provider? I want to make sure that I never
>> ever buy anything from them.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
> All of them most likely. There isn't a wireless company that gives a
> squat about their customers. It's all about sales and revenue.

Probably....companies spend roughly ten times as much on "selling" (getting
you as a customer) as they do on customer service (servicing the products of
services) after they got you as a customer.

Of course, the overwhelming majority of CEO's come from Sales&Marketing --
when was the last time you heard of a CEO that came from Customer Service?


Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Jim Carter]

Carly Fiorina ran Lucent pretty much into the ground and the almost did
the same for Hewlett-Packard. I believe she came up through the ranks of
Lucent services.

Regards,

James A. (Jim) Carter

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Barrow ]
Posted At: Saturday, December 10, 2005 1:59 PM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Throwaway GPS
Subject: Re: Throwaway GPS


> wrote in message news:cYCmf.273$z21.55@fed1read04...
> Bob Noel wrote:
>> In article >,
>> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better
>>>hidden
>>>menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it,
the
>>>cell phone company terms of service allows them the option to spam
you
>>>with text messages advertising businesses local to where you are.
>>
>>
>> what's the name of this cell provider? I want to make sure that I
never
>> ever buy anything from them.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
> All of them most likely. There isn't a wireless company that gives a
> squat about their customers. It's all about sales and revenue.

Probably....companies spend roughly ten times as much on "selling"
(getting
you as a customer) as they do on customer service (servicing the
products of
services) after they got you as a customer.

Of course, the overwhelming majority of CEO's come from Sales&Marketing
--
when was the last time you heard of a CEO that came from Customer
Service?


Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[murrell]

WE know where You are !!

Missouri Signs Statewide Cell Phone Spying Contract , Baltimore Md. is
useing theirs already !

Please See;
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/08/814.asp

There are several more articles on the net about this.
Murrell

[M]

I wonder how useful it is to have GPS in cellphone in order to get the
geo data for E-911. We all know that it's fairly difficult to get a
reliable signal acquisition unless it's ourdoors with a clear view of
sky.

Scott Moore wrote:
> I thought for all of the GPS threads.
>
> Next year, 2006, the government mandate for GPS inclusion in cell phones
> starts. That means that eventually every cheap cell phone is going to have
> a GPS.
>
> GPS receivers are plentyfull now, but are getting set to proliferate into
> a commondity part. The time is coming when instead of worrying about tying the
> multiple GPS using instruments you have in your airplane, they all have their
> own, and you have 3, 4 or more redundant GPS recievers in your airplane.

[Stubby]

I'll bet Rick Miller, the ATT CFO had a hand in running it into the
ground. That's what he did for Wang Laboratories.


Jim Carter wrote:
> Carly Fiorina ran Lucent pretty much into the ground and the almost did
> the same for Hewlett-Packard. I believe she came up through the ranks of
> Lucent services.
>
> Regards,
>
> James A. (Jim) Carter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Barrow ]
> Posted At: Saturday, December 10, 2005 1:59 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
> Conversation: Throwaway GPS
> Subject: Re: Throwaway GPS
>
>
> > wrote in message news:cYCmf.273$z21.55@fed1read04...
>
>>Bob Noel wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better
>>>>hidden
>>>>menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it,
>
> the
>
>>>>cell phone company terms of service allows them the option to spam
>
> you
>
>>>>with text messages advertising businesses local to where you are.
>>>
>>>
>>>what's the name of this cell provider? I want to make sure that I
>
> never
>
>>>ever buy anything from them.
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>
>>All of them most likely. There isn't a wireless company that gives a
>>squat about their customers. It's all about sales and revenue.
>
>
> Probably....companies spend roughly ten times as much on "selling"
> (getting
> you as a customer) as they do on customer service (servicing the
> products of
> services) after they got you as a customer.
>
> Of course, the overwhelming majority of CEO's come from Sales&Marketing
> --
> when was the last time you heard of a CEO that came from Customer
> Service?
>
>
> Matt
> ---------------------
> Matthew W. Barrow
> Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
> Montrose, CO
>
>

[Everett M. Greene]

Stubby > writes:
> Jim Carter wrote:
> > Carly Fiorina ran Lucent pretty much into the ground
> > and the almost did the same for Hewlett-Packard. I
> > believe she came up through the ranks of Lucent services.

> I'll bet Rick Miller, the ATT CFO had a hand in running it
> into the ground. That's what he did for Wang Laboratories.

What AT&T? The remains are now part of SBC.

There are quite a few people around who repeatedly have
been given big bucks to head up corporations and having
a perfect record of leaving the corporations in shambles.

[Scott Moore]

M wrote On 12/11/05 10:25,:
> I wonder how useful it is to have GPS in cellphone in order to get the
> geo data for E-911. We all know that it's fairly difficult to get a
> reliable signal acquisition unless it's ourdoors with a clear view of
> sky.
>

Agreed. I guess we will find out. Of course, the newer sats have more
power, no ?

[Stubby]

Scott Moore wrote:
> M wrote On 12/11/05 10:25,:
>
>>I wonder how useful it is to have GPS in cellphone in order to get the
>>geo data for E-911. We all know that it's fairly difficult to get a
>>reliable signal acquisition unless it's ourdoors with a clear view of
>>sky.
>>
>
>
> Agreed. I guess we will find out. Of course, the newer sats have more
> power, no ?
>
Not clear. While geocaching, I came upon a camp fire that was still
smouldering in the woods. Because I didn't know the phone number for
the closest towns, I called my home town fire department, ID'd myself
and asked them for the number. Then I called that number and they
asked, "Where are you?" and I gave them "N42....W071....". Uh huh.
What town are you in? I replied, "a State owned forest."

"OK. But WHERE are you?".... It went on like that until I agreed to
meet the fire truck at the trailhead and walk them in.

All the phone+GPS combos won't cure that problem!

[Newps]

Stubby wrote:


>>
> Not clear. While geocaching, I came upon a camp fire that was still
> smouldering in the woods. Because I didn't know the phone number for
> the closest towns, I called my home town fire department, ID'd myself
> and asked them for the number. Then I called that number and they
> asked, "Where are you?" and I gave them "N42....W071....". Uh huh.
> What town are you in? I replied, "a State owned forest."
>
> "OK. But WHERE are you?".... It went on like that until I agreed to
> meet the fire truck at the trailhead and walk them in.

You came across a smoldering camp fire and called the fire department?
It would take less then 5 minutes to put the thing out but you made a
call and then left the fire? You're a moron.

[john smith]

> Stubby wrote:
> > "OK. But WHERE are you?".... It went on like that until I agreed to
> > meet the fire truck at the trailhead and walk them in.

Newps > wrote:
> You came across a smoldering camp fire and called the fire department?
> It would take less then 5 minutes to put the thing out but you made a
> call and then left the fire? You're a moron.

That's what I like about you Newps, you're so subtle. :-))

[Scott Moore]

Stubby wrote On 12/12/05 14:30,:
> Scott Moore wrote:
>
>>M wrote On 12/11/05 10:25,:
>>
>>
>>>I wonder how useful it is to have GPS in cellphone in order to get the
>>>geo data for E-911. We all know that it's fairly difficult to get a
>>>reliable signal acquisition unless it's ourdoors with a clear view of
>>>sky.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Agreed. I guess we will find out. Of course, the newer sats have more
>>power, no ?
>>
>
> Not clear. While geocaching, I came upon a camp fire that was still
> smouldering in the woods. Because I didn't know the phone number for
> the closest towns, I called my home town fire department, ID'd myself
> and asked them for the number. Then I called that number and they
> asked, "Where are you?" and I gave them "N42....W071....". Uh huh.
> What town are you in? I replied, "a State owned forest."
>
> "OK. But WHERE are you?".... It went on like that until I agreed to
> meet the fire truck at the trailhead and walk them in.
>
> All the phone+GPS combos won't cure that problem!

Feh. Try giving lat/lon coordinates to a controller, and see what
happens. When traveling in Mexico, VFR, I learned rapidly that the
controllers want their reports in terms of a VOR radial and DME distance,
which I learned with equal rapidity to fake from my 430 GPS, since I
didn't really feel like messing with the old Cessna VOR set on the
airplane (I learned to rapidly call up the "nearest VOR" page and
find the reciprocal of the indicated bearing).

[Scott Moore]

Newps wrote On 12/13/05 08:57,:
>
> Stubby wrote:
>
>
>
>>Not clear. While geocaching, I came upon a camp fire that was still
>>smouldering in the woods. Because I didn't know the phone number for
>>the closest towns, I called my home town fire department, ID'd myself
>>and asked them for the number. Then I called that number and they
>>asked, "Where are you?" and I gave them "N42....W071....". Uh huh.
>>What town are you in? I replied, "a State owned forest."
>>
>>"OK. But WHERE are you?".... It went on like that until I agreed to
>>meet the fire truck at the trailhead and walk them in.
>
>
> You came across a smoldering camp fire and called the fire department?
> It would take less then 5 minutes to put the thing out but you made a
> call and then left the fire? You're a moron.
>

That was completely uncalled for.

[john smith]

In article >,
Scott Moore > wrote:

> Newps wrote On 12/13/05 08:57,:
> >
> > Stubby wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Not clear. While geocaching, I came upon a camp fire that was still
> >>smouldering in the woods. Because I didn't know the phone number for
> >>the closest towns, I called my home town fire department, ID'd myself
> >>and asked them for the number. Then I called that number and they
> >>asked, "Where are you?" and I gave them "N42....W071....". Uh huh.
> >>What town are you in? I replied, "a State owned forest."
> >>
> >>"OK. But WHERE are you?".... It went on like that until I agreed to
> >>meet the fire truck at the trailhead and walk them in.
> >
> >
> > You came across a smoldering camp fire and called the fire department?
> > It would take less then 5 minutes to put the thing out but you made a
> > call and then left the fire? You're a moron.

> That was completely uncalled for.

Not unless the OP left out some information.
If it was indeed just/only a "smoldering campfire", it should have been
dealt with directly. Why would one call a fire department and risk the
spread of a small fire into a large one?

[[email protected]]

Scott Moore wrote:

>
>>Not clear. While geocaching, I came upon a camp fire that was still
>>smouldering in the woods. Because I didn't know the phone number for
>>the closest towns, I called my home town fire department, ID'd myself
>>and asked them for the number. Then I called that number and they
>>asked, "Where are you?" and I gave them "N42....W071....". Uh huh.
>>What town are you in? I replied, "a State owned forest."
>>
>>"OK. But WHERE are you?".... It went on like that until I agreed to
>>meet the fire truck at the trailhead and walk them in.
>>
>>All the phone+GPS combos won't cure that problem!
>
>
> Feh. Try giving lat/lon coordinates to a controller, and see what
> happens. When traveling in Mexico, VFR, I learned rapidly that the
> controllers want their reports in terms of a VOR radial and DME distance,
> which I learned with equal rapidity to fake from my 430 GPS, since I
> didn't really feel like messing with the old Cessna VOR set on the
> airplane (I learned to rapidly call up the "nearest VOR" page and
> find the reciprocal of the indicated bearing).
>

The human-factor of manual entry and transmission of LAT/LONs has proven
to be abysmal. Hard lessons were learned in the 1970s with significant
errors in oceanic navigation using keyboard entries of LAT/LON. Also,
the opportunity for error on the part of the sending or receiving party
with verbal transmission of a bunch of critical numbers is great.

That is why we have waypoints today. The LAT/LON is embedded and not
used by the pilot or ATC. Automatic transmission of raw LAT/LON by a
cell phone directly into an automated positioning system is a different
matter. That has been working great in the trucking industry and can
work quite well for other applications. No fat fingers or thick tongues
involved so long as it's automated.

So far as you using your 430 to provide a Mexican controller with
radial/distance, that is not faking it at all. That VOR is a waypoint
as well as a VOR.

[Scott Moore]

john smith wrote On 12/13/05 19:30,:
> In article >,
> Scott Moore > wrote:
>
>
>>Newps wrote On 12/13/05 08:57,:
>>
>>>Stubby wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Not clear. While geocaching, I came upon a camp fire that was still
>>>>smouldering in the woods. Because I didn't know the phone number for
>>>>the closest towns, I called my home town fire department, ID'd myself
>>>>and asked them for the number. Then I called that number and they
>>>>asked, "Where are you?" and I gave them "N42....W071....". Uh huh.
>>>>What town are you in? I replied, "a State owned forest."
>>>>
>>>>"OK. But WHERE are you?".... It went on like that until I agreed to
>>>>meet the fire truck at the trailhead and walk them in.
>>>
>>>
>>>You came across a smoldering camp fire and called the fire department?
>>>It would take less then 5 minutes to put the thing out but you made a
>>>call and then left the fire? You're a moron.
>
>
>>That was completely uncalled for.
>
>
> Not unless the OP left out some information.
> If it was indeed just/only a "smoldering campfire", it should have been
> dealt with directly. Why would one call a fire department and risk the
> spread of a small fire into a large one?

Hint: saying that to someone face to face would get you punched in that
same face. Doing it over usenet is an act of cowardice

[Newps]

Scott Moore wrote:

>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Not clear. While geocaching, I came upon a camp fire that was still
>>>>>smouldering in the woods. Because I didn't know the phone number for
>>>>>the closest towns, I called my home town fire department, ID'd myself
>>>>>and asked them for the number. Then I called that number and they
>>>>>asked, "Where are you?" and I gave them "N42....W071....". Uh huh.
>>>>>What town are you in? I replied, "a State owned forest."
>>>>>
>>>>>"OK. But WHERE are you?".... It went on like that until I agreed to
>>>>>meet the fire truck at the trailhead and walk them in.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You came across a smoldering camp fire and called the fire department?
>>>>It would take less then 5 minutes to put the thing out but you made a
>>>>call and then left the fire? You're a moron.
>>
>>
>>>That was completely uncalled for.
>>
>>
>>Not unless the OP left out some information.
>>If it was indeed just/only a "smoldering campfire", it should have been
>>dealt with directly. Why would one call a fire department and risk the
>>spread of a small fire into a large one?
>
>
> Hint: saying that to someone face to face would get you punched in that
> same face. Doing it over usenet is an act of cowardice

Baloney. You tell me that same story when you're standing next to me
you'll get the same response. You never, ever leave a camp fire,
smoldering or not. And for Christs sake who calls the fire department
for a campfire? Jesus, what a moron.

[Roger]

On 9 Dec 2005 19:49:52 -0800, "Andrew Sarangan" >
wrote:

>If the cellphone is able to transmit its GPS co-ordinates, surely it
>should also be able to give that same information to the user.

Should and will are two different propositions, although they may find
that to be a safety feature and add it.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger]

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:52:45 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

>In a previous article, "Andrew Sarangan" > said:
>>If the cellphone is able to transmit its GPS co-ordinates, surely it
>>should also be able to give that same information to the user.
>
>Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better hidden


>menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it, the

No they can't.
It's a government mandated provision for enhanced 911 operation. This
is what's been driving the VOIP providers nuts. The GPS *along* with
the tower data is supposed to give your position within so many feet,
both vertically and horizontally and it best be there. It comes up
at the 911 center when you call. It saves time. I've called in a
number of wrecks and it took time to give a detailed location report.
With enhanced 911 they would have only verified that I was who the
phone number said I was and all I'd have to do would be say, "yes"
when they asked for the location verification.

>cell phone company terms of service allows them the option to spam you
>with text messages advertising businesses local to where you are.

Where you are has nothing to do with spam, nor does making the GPS
data private. It's nothing more than a location, but it must be
included and you are not supposed to be able to turn it off, at least
not to the 911 center.
>
>There is also a program somebody wrote using the Google Maps API where you
>and a community of friends can always see where the other members of your

This is an entirely different kettle of fish.

>community are at any time based on the GPS coordinates of their cell
>phones.

Hams have been doing that with GPS and their radios for some time.
We call it APRS.

When storm chasing there is a burst of data that gives out position
and all we have to do is report on the storm.
The EOC which is in the 911 center knows right where we are.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger

[Roger]

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 08:01:07 -0800, wrote:

>Bob Noel wrote:
>> In article >,
>> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better hidden
>>>menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it, the
>>>cell phone company terms of service allows them the option to spam you
>>>with text messages advertising businesses local to where you are.
>>
>>
>> what's the name of this cell provider? I want to make sure that I never
>> ever buy anything from them.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
>All of them most likely. There isn't a wireless company that gives a
>squat about their customers. It's all about sales and revenue.

As many users have to pay for connect time it's fast becoming illegal
in many areas to spam via cell phones (unless it's via e-mail and not
text messaging)

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Ash Wyllie]

Roger opined

>On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:52:45 +0000 (UTC),
>(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

>>In a previous article, "Andrew Sarangan" > said:
>>>If the cellphone is able to transmit its GPS co-ordinates, surely it
>>>should also be able to give that same information to the user.
>>
>>Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better hidden


>>menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it, the

>No they can't.
>It's a government mandated provision for enhanced 911 operation. This
>is what's been driving the VOIP providers nuts. The GPS *along* with
>the tower data is supposed to give your position within so many feet,
>both vertically and horizontally and it best be there. It comes up
>at the 911 center when you call. It saves time. I've called in a
>number of wrecks and it took time to give a detailed location report.
>With enhanced 911 they would have only verified that I was who the
>phone number said I was and all I'd have to do would be say, "yes"
>when they asked for the location verification.

My biggest question is how long before the government orders cell phone makers
to include a no ring "what is your current location?" option? Sure make it
easier to keep track of troouble makers.

-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Roger > said:
>On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:52:45 +0000 (UTC),
>(Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>
>>In a previous article, "Andrew Sarangan" > said:
>>>If the cellphone is able to transmit its GPS co-ordinates, surely it
>>>should also be able to give that same information to the user.
>>
>>Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better hidden
>>menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it, the
>
>No they can't.

Oh yes they can. "Making the GPS data private" means that it can only be
used for e911. If you don't make it private, you're giving the cell phone
company permission to use it however they like. The guy with the phone
showed me the help item for that menu item, and it explicitly says that
they can use it for geographically targetted advertising if they want.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
If killing them all to a man is not an option then you are better off to
simply leave them to slowly self destruct under their own incompetance.
-- Dag

[Roger]

On 15 Dec 2005 7:50:7 -0500, "Ash Wyllie" > wrote:

>Roger opined
>
>>On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:52:45 +0000 (UTC),
>>(Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>
>>>In a previous article, "Andrew Sarangan" > said:
>>>>If the cellphone is able to transmit its GPS co-ordinates, surely it
>>>>should also be able to give that same information to the user.
>>>
>>>Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better hidden
>
>
>>>menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it, the
>
>>No they can't.
>>It's a government mandated provision for enhanced 911 operation. This
>>is what's been driving the VOIP providers nuts. The GPS *along* with
>>the tower data is supposed to give your position within so many feet,
>>both vertically and horizontally and it best be there. It comes up
>>at the 911 center when you call. It saves time. I've called in a
>>number of wrecks and it took time to give a detailed location report.
>>With enhanced 911 they would have only verified that I was who the
>>phone number said I was and all I'd have to do would be say, "yes"
>>when they asked for the location verification.
>
>My biggest question is how long before the government orders cell phone makers
>to include a no ring "what is your current location?" option? Sure make it
>easier to keep track of troouble makers.

What do you mean when or how long?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
> -ash
> Cthulhu in 2005!
> Why wait for nature?
>

[Roger]

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:07:05 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

>In a previous article, Roger > said:
>>On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:52:45 +0000 (UTC),
>>(Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>
>>>In a previous article, "Andrew Sarangan" > said:
>>>>If the cellphone is able to transmit its GPS co-ordinates, surely it
>>>>should also be able to give that same information to the user.
>>>
>>>Some of them can. A friend has a cell phone that one of the better hidden
>>>menu items is to make the GPS data private - if you don't select it, the
>>
>>No they can't.
>
>Oh yes they can. "Making the GPS data private" means that it can only be

No they can't: We are talking about two different things. You can
only tell them you want your data private. Setting that flag does
not prevent them from getting the data. If 911 can, so can the
telephone company.

What you are talking about is a flag that tells the phone company you
don't want any adds or for them to give out your location to
unauthorized parties. They still have it, you are just telling them
you do not give them permission to give it out.

>used for e911. If you don't make it private, you're giving the cell phone

It's a play on words as you, the end user can never really make it
private. You only remove permission for them to use it for business,
or pass it on to some one else. Think of it more like a flag that
says this guy is on the do not call list. In some states it's
already illegal for any one to send you adds on the cell phone because
it costs you money.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>company permission to use it however they like. The guy with the phone
>showed me the help item for that menu item, and it explicitly says that
>they can use it for geographically targetted advertising if they want.