What would you pay?

[Kobra]

Hangar tenents,

Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars for
100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There are
plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of curiosity
.... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make you say,
"THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME A FRICKIN'
TIE-DOWN."

Kobra

[Dave S]

Im sure many would disagree with me.. but if theres a waiting list for
hangars, then the rent is too low.. (thats the capitalist greedy side
speaking)..

Whats the cost of getting your own plat of land for long term lease and
putting your own hangar (t hangar or small box) on it.. as compared to
rent you are paying now?

Dave

Kobra wrote:
> Hangar tenents,
>
> Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars for
> 100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There are
> plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of curiosity
> ... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make you say,
> "THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME A FRICKIN'
> TIE-DOWN."
>
> Kobra
>
>

[Dan Thompson]

>a poultry 70.00 per month<

Why, that's chicken feed!

"Kobra" > wrote in message
...
> Hangar tenents,
>
> Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars
> for 100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There
> are plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of
> curiosity ... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make
> you say, "THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME
> A FRICKIN' TIE-DOWN."
>
> Kobra
>

[Viperdoc]

It depends on how much your airplane costs or is worth to you. It's all
relative.
>

[Darrel Toepfer]

Kobra wrote:
> Hangar tenents,
>
> Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars for
> 100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There are
> plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of curiosity
> ... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make you say,
> "THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME A FRICKIN'
> TIE-DOWN."

$70 gets you a t-hanger at 4R7 ($50 a decade ago), $60 gets you one at
3R7...

None are available at either... Tiedowns used to be free at 4R7, now
they want to charge, but I don't remember what... 3R7 is planning on
building more t-hangers, 4R7 is exploring a grant ($300k for 10
t-hangers on last guesstimate)...

[Peter R.]

Kobra > wrote:

> Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars for
> 100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There are
> plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of curiosity
> ... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make you say,
> "THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME A FRICKIN'
> TIE-DOWN."

Disregarding the idea that the hangar protects the aircraft from the
elements (hail and prolonged sunshine being two), how about this (assuming
you live in an area prone to snow, ice, and/or frost)?

What is your time worth? In my case, I use my aircraft to commute weekly.
The yet-another-preflight task I would prefer to avoid is the time
consuming task of removing snow, ice, or frost from an aircraft that had
been tied down.

I supposed that, if a tie-down were my only choice, I would invest in some
type of cover for the aircraft, but then I have read that these can scratch
windows and paint.

--
Peter

[Mike Spera]

Kobra wrote:
> Hangar tenents,
>
> Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars for
> 100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There are
> plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of curiosity
> ... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make you say,
> "THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME A FRICKIN'
> TIE-DOWN."
>
> Kobra
>
>

data point: 06C, Schaumburg (IL). 8 miles west of O'Hare, 1.7NM west of
my house.

Our tie-downs are $80/mo. The "old" hangars (which are unavailable) are
$250/mo. If you want to get on the waiting list for the "new" T-hangars,
they are $400/mo. By the way, you need to let them hold $800 of your
money for a "security deposit". Oh yeah, if you want heat, you put in a
gas furnace and get it hooked up to the meter (and you pay for the gas).

Seems we have plenty of potential customers for hangars because they
have started building a bunch more.

Surrounding airports are similarly priced. If you want to drive 100
miles you can get both tie-downs and hangars for about half.

Outrageous? Well, the city sunk something like $50M into the airport for
purchase and improvements. If they did not come along and do it, there
would be rows of nice pretty townhouses there by now. So, they build
expensive hangars that we seem to have an endless supply of willing
buyers to help defray the monthly nut.

I have a convenient airport, those who will pay have first class
hangars. I could "afford" the hangar. But, for nearly $5k a year, I
would rather put up with the outside and paint the beast every 7 years
instead of 12 (if it were inside).

Mike

[[email protected]]

: I have a convenient airport, those who will pay have first class
: hangars. I could "afford" the hangar. But, for nearly $5k a year, I
: would rather put up with the outside and paint the beast every 7 years
: instead of 12 (if it were inside).

From the standpoint of the paint, it is generally financially better to let it
sit outside than to pay hangar rent. Of course other weather things (potential hail
damage, ice/snow removal), the convenience of indoor work, etc may be worth a lot to
some. For me, hangars are unavailable, and being outside isn't that big of a deal. A
$100 cover keeps the sun off the avionics and upholstery.

Of course on the few days during the winter when snow/ice is on it (like
today), I feel temporarily a bit different.... :)

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Dave Stadt]

"Kobra" > wrote in message
...
> Hangar tenents,
>
> Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars
for
> 100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There are
> plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of curiosity
> ... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make you say,
> "THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME A
FRICKIN'
> TIE-DOWN."
>
> Kobra

If I couldn't afford or didn't want to pay for a hangar I would sell the
airplane. New hangars came available at the airport I fly out of and I
bought two. The rent on one pays for the annual costs for both. 39 T
hangars sold in in about two weeks.

[Jay Honeck]

> Im sure many would disagree with me.. but if theres a waiting list for
> hangars, then the rent is too low.. (thats the capitalist greedy side
> speaking)..

MY capitalist greedy side disagrees.

If there's a waiting list, it's time to build more hangars!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> From the standpoint of the paint, it is generally financially better to
> let it
> sit outside than to pay hangar rent. Of course other weather things
> (potential hail
> damage, ice/snow removal), the convenience of indoor work, etc may be
> worth a lot to
> some. For me, hangars are unavailable, and being outside isn't that big
> of a deal. A
> $100 cover keeps the sun off the avionics and upholstery.

Don't forget all the "intangibles" that come with having a hangar. Being
in a row of T-hangars is like docking your boat on a lake. Your neighbors
are instantly your friends, and everyone has an equal footing from which to
start, whether you're a bank president or a lowly innkeeper.

Grilling out at the hangar usually means an instant gathering, as the
airport bums are drawn to the smell of burgers and free beer. We've solved
all the world's problems in our hangar, and strategized many a business
decision in Atlas' shadow.

A place to keep your "stuff" is worth a lot, too. Riding lawn mowers fit
under the wings, motorcycles fit in the back, and our Mustang fits nicely
where the kitchen usually "lives" in summer. (We just take down the kitchen
table, and drive the car in...)

Having a living "diary" is worth something, too. We've got 8.5 x 11 inch
photos of every place we've flown, and every person we've flown with, on the
walls of our hangar. (I covered the walls with 1" styrofoam/fiberglass
insulation board, to which we staple all the photos.) It's collectively
called our "Wall of Shame", and it's absolutely priceless to us, as we can
look back and see how the kids have grown, and reminisce about great flights
and wonderful people who are no longer with us... The walls really can
"speak", and they are great conversation starters.

There is SO much more to a hangar than just an "airplane garage."

Some people have a lovely cottage on a lake -- we have a tin shack on a
strip of asphalt. But I know where I'd rather hang out!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> New hangars came available at the airport I fly out of and I
> bought two. The rent on one pays for the annual costs for both. 39 T
> hangars sold in in about two weeks.

How does that work, Dave? Is this a private airport, or municipal?

Our airport has talked about selling hangars to tenants, but it always gets
swept aside as being unworkable.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[N93332]

"Kobra" > wrote in message
...
> Hangar tenents,
>
> Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars
> for 100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There
> are plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of
> curiosity ... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make
> you say, "THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME
> A FRICKIN' TIE-DOWN."

There's advantages of being in the middle of nowhere...

When I first bought my plane, I had it in a large 3-sided hangar that held a
half dozen planes in McAllen for $90/month. It'd take about 15 minutes to
jockey the planes around to get mine out from the back at times.

When I moved to Iowa, I shared a hangar with a Cardinal. My plane was behind
the Cardinal and I would have to pull it out first, then my plane then put
it back. It was a hassle at times but only $35/month.

I then moved to southern Minnesota and at the time the only hangar available
in the area was at a grass strip about 30 miles away. $45/month for the
t-hangar.

A hangar opened up at the local airport for $50/month. This made it more
convenient when the plane and I were in the same town.

I moved again and the plane is again 30 miles away; still at the same
airport. The local airport is building some new hangars that will be
available this spring. When the new hangars are done, I'll move my plane
here to one of the older hangars for $70/month.

-Greg B.

[Mike Spera]

> Don't forget all the "intangibles" that come with having a hangar.
> .snipped lots of advantages

Yep. I fully agree. I curse every time I have to do some "simple"
operation like airing up the tires outside on a 12 degree windy day
(like today).

But $5 grand a year?

That buys a LOT of maintenance and upgrades.

As far as the companionship, our hangars are somewhat isolated so you
would rarely even see another soul.

With the house being under 2 miles away, I can pretty much run back home
for whatever I need. Folks further out say this can be a real pain when
you try to do some PM, forget this or that tool, and have to make a 1
hour plus round trip to get it.

Anyway, my personal "break even" point is about %250. Like I said, we
have "old" hangars for that price, but you cannot get one. The lease
allows subletting so when an owner sells their plane, they usually
"sell" the hangar with it.

Mike

[N93332]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:BQCmf.394424$084.284591@attbi_s22...
>> New hangars came available at the airport I fly out of and I
>> bought two. The rent on one pays for the annual costs for both. 39 T
>> hangars sold in in about two weeks.
>
> How does that work, Dave? Is this a private airport, or municipal?
>
> Our airport has talked about selling hangars to tenants, but it always
> gets swept aside as being unworkable.

I've seen a few places that have privately owned hangars on municipal/public
airports. Check out Morningstar in Des Moines sometime. When I had my plane
at Sleepy Eye (y58), I rented one of the three spots in a hangar from the
hangar owner. He also offered to sell me a third of the hangar. I didn't buy
it; I'm now 60+ miles from there.

-Greg B.

[Montblack]

>> New hangars came available at the airport I fly out of and I bought two.
>> The rent on one pays for the annual costs for both. 39 T hangars sold in
>> in about two weeks.

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
> How does that work, Dave? Is this a private airport, or municipal?
>
> Our airport has talked about selling hangars to tenants, but it always
> gets swept aside as being unworkable.


At ANE (Anoka County-Blaine, MN - 20 miles N of M/SP) you build your own
hangar on leased land, just like a trailer "court" ...or mobile home "park"
....or manufactured housing "village". You know, tornado magnets.

Put whatever you want up on your site, but you still owe rent (lease)
payments on that site each month. Hangars sell from owner to owner. The
leases (land rent) are set to almost double at ANE over the next few years.

ANE is one of six reliever airports for (MSP) Minneapolis/St Paul
International. All are part of MAC - Metropolitan Airports Commission.

http://www.mspairport.com/mac/organization/default.aspx


Montblack

[Jay Honeck]

> The leases (land rent) are set to almost double at ANE over
> the next few years.

Holy crap! What are they trying to do, weed out the riff-raff?

What will that do to the airport?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dave Stadt]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:BQCmf.394424$084.284591@attbi_s22...
> > New hangars came available at the airport I fly out of and I
> > bought two. The rent on one pays for the annual costs for both. 39 T
> > hangars sold in in about two weeks.
>
> How does that work, Dave? Is this a private airport, or municipal?
>
> Our airport has talked about selling hangars to tenants, but it always
gets
> swept aside as being unworkable.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Private public use airport. Poplar Grove C77 in northern IL now the largest
airport aircraft count wise in the state with 400 plus aircraft. We own the
hangar and pay a nominal annual land lease, property tax, insurance and
maintenance fee that covers snow plowing, lawn mowing, etc. Total comes to
about $1,200 per year. The land lease is a transferable 99 year lease.
Probably one of the better investments around. It is not unusual for a
hangar to sell in a couple of hours.

[Dave Stadt]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> >> New hangars came available at the airport I fly out of and I bought
two.
> >> The rent on one pays for the annual costs for both. 39 T hangars sold
in
> >> in about two weeks.
>
> ("Jay Honeck" wrote)
> > How does that work, Dave? Is this a private airport, or municipal?
> >
> > Our airport has talked about selling hangars to tenants, but it always
> > gets swept aside as being unworkable.
>
>
> At ANE (Anoka County-Blaine, MN - 20 miles N of M/SP) you build your own
> hangar on leased land, just like a trailer "court" ...or mobile home
"park"
> ...or manufactured housing "village". You know, tornado magnets.
>
> Put whatever you want up on your site, but you still owe rent (lease)
> payments on that site each month. Hangars sell from owner to owner. The
> leases (land rent) are set to almost double at ANE over the next few
years.
>
> ANE is one of six reliever airports for (MSP) Minneapolis/St Paul
> International. All are part of MAC - Metropolitan Airports Commission.
>
> http://www.mspairport.com/mac/organization/default.aspx
>
>
> Montblack


We currently pay $.10 per square foot. Even if it doubled it wouldn't be a
big deal. Is ANE one of the MSP airports they wanted to close? The airport
puts up the hangars and we purchase from the airport. That keeps quality up
and the neighborhood looking good.

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:JOCmf.636366$xm3.487896@attbi_s21...
>> From the standpoint of the paint, it is generally financially better to
>> let it
>> sit outside than to pay hangar rent. Of course other weather things
>> (potential hail
>> damage, ice/snow removal), the convenience of indoor work, etc may be
>> worth a lot to
>> some. For me, hangars are unavailable, and being outside isn't that big
>> of a deal. A
>> $100 cover keeps the sun off the avionics and upholstery.
>
> Don't forget all the "intangibles" that come with having a hangar. Being
> in a row of T-hangars is like docking your boat on a lake. Your neighbors
> are instantly your friends, and everyone has an equal footing from which
> to start, whether you're a bank president or a lowly innkeeper.
>

Good points!

I pay $235 a month for a 44foot T-Hanger with electricity (I pay the
electric bill) which works fine with a Reiff pre-heater. I could add an
electric space heater, but is it worth it? The Reiff makes the engine
compartment so warm that much heat transfers to the cabin via the cover.
Only occasionally do we get below 0F.

In the 6000 foot elevation here, it does wonders to protect the paint and
internals. During the winters, it's a major benefit. We don't get all that
much snow down in the valley (as opposed to the hills around us), but when
we do it blows a lot and can get into all sorts of nook and crannies as it's
the light fluffy powder.

As for "friends", those of us on the same row as my hanger all share (cost
us a one time $50) to use a riding lawn mower that has a special hitch to
tow/push the aircraft. That's been a blessing more times than I can
remember.


Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Montblack]

("Dave Stadt" wrote)
> We currently pay $.10 per square foot. Even if it doubled it wouldn't be
> a
> big deal. Is ANE one of the MSP airports they wanted to close?


No. The talk is of closing Crystal (MIC) ...developers are salivating over
that one.

If Minneapolis/St Paul (MSP) airspace is a clock, then ANE is up near 12
o'clock or 12:30 with MIC at 10:30 or 11 o'clock.

MIC ....14 (s) miles from MSP
MIC .... 9 (s) miles from ANE
ANE .. 18 (s) miles from MSP

http://www.mspairport.com/relievers/crystal/default.aspx
(MIC) Crystal Airport

http://www.mspairport.com/relievers/anoka_blaine/default.aspx
(ANE) Anoka County - Blaine Airport

See where the N/S runway at ANE was moved ...up? We'd have a 7,500 ft runway
if it was an addition rather than a relocation. Neighbors in Mounds View, in
the bottom of the pic, were complaining. As it is, 18/36 is currently under
5,000 ft.

The new Minnesota Viking's stadium will be just out of the picture, 2 mile
away, in the upper right hand corner ...if it ever gets built.


Montblack

[Newps]

Montblack wrote:

> At ANE (Anoka County-Blaine, MN - 20 miles N of M/SP) you build your own
> hangar on leased land, just like a trailer "court" ...or mobile home
> "park" ...or manufactured housing "village". You know, tornado magnets.
>
> Put whatever you want up on your site, but you still owe rent (lease)
> payments on that site each month. Hangars sell from owner to owner. The
> leases (land rent) are set to almost double at ANE over the next few years.

That's where I fly in to when I come to town as it's the closest airport
to my folks. What are the going rates if I wanted to buy a hangar?

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
> Holy crap! What are they trying to do, weed out the riff-raff?
>
> What will that do to the airport?


The idea is to get the leases up to "market" levels ...whatever that means,
especially since it's 1940's 'set aside' airport land - all managed by the
Metro Airports Commission.

The rents, along with a bump from (gate) fees collected at MSP, used to
cover local costs.

These days, Northwest Airlines wants the lion's share of all 'gate fees'
paid to MAC to be used for projects at the main airport, MSP. This leaves a
difference to make up out at the six reliever (MAC) airports. Airports that
used to get a percentage of those funds.

Another factor in the rate hike is the Twin Cities Met Council, a gigantic
non-elected 'region wide' government body - parks, sewers, buses, housing,
etc. A good chunk of the cost increases at ANE are associated with Met
Council rate hikes.

http://www.metrocouncil.org/about/facts/WhatIsMetCouncil.pdf
Met Council ...'Who am I? Why am I here?'

http://www.metrocouncil.org/


Montblack

[Montblack]

("Newps" wrote)
> That's where I fly in to when I come to town as it's the closest airport
> to my folks. What are the going rates if I wanted to buy a hangar?


70k - 130k for something nice. 40x40 would be on the small side in this
group.

A very nice (newer, insulated, nicely finished, upper office, etc) 60x65?
was for sale this spring for around 169k. I look at the for for-sale signs
when I drive around over there. I've yet to see anything offered for under
60k. Apparently small hangars don't go up for sale often or are snapped up
right away by "insiders". Lake Elmo (21D) east side of the Twin Cities, near
the Wisconsin border, might be cheaper.

If you're only flying in once or twice per month, I suspect another 30-45
minutes (one way) in the car would save you a bundle. Where is your folks
house?

I've heard South St Paul (SGS) is reasonably priced - home of Ballistic
Recovery Systems (BRS). This airport is not part of the MAC reliever airport
system - it's only 8 nautical miles (east) of MSP, and about 5 miles (almost
due south) of Downtown St Paul (STP).

According to AirNav:
(STP) Downtown St Paul ... 7.3 nm to MSP
(STP) Downtown St Paul ....4.8 nm to SGS
(MSP) Mpls/St Paul Int ........8.0 nm to SGS


Montblack

[Dave S]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> MY capitalist greedy side disagrees.
>
> If there's a waiting list, it's time to build more hangars!
>
> :-)

Good corrolary, Jay...

On a serious note, have you considered the economy of building your own
small hangar and sharing it with a few good tenants? or keeping it to
yourself? A long term lease on the land and then you are simply putting
in the improvements..

Dave

[Dave]

We pay $400 (cdn)/month for shared hangar, heated, - staff will move
or assist in moving our Warrior in/out to the ramp as needed.

We are permitted to "work" on our plane after hrs. and trusted to lock
up the place when finished. Hose , hot water, vac , air pressure,
powered tug and pressure washer avbl.

Presently snuggled alongside a WestWind.. (well, the company is class)
:)

Dave


.....On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 00:48:03 -0500, "Kobra" >
wrote:

>Hangar tenents,
>
>Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars for
>100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There are
>plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of curiosity
>... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make you say,
>"THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME A FRICKIN'
>TIE-DOWN."
>
>Kobra
>

[Newps]

Montblack wrote:

>
> A very nice (newer, insulated, nicely finished, upper office, etc)
> 60x65? was for sale this spring for around 169k. I look at the for
> for-sale signs when I drive around over there. I've yet to see anything
> offered for under 60k. Apparently small hangars don't go up for sale
> often or are snapped up right away by "insiders". Lake Elmo (21D) east
> side of the Twin Cities, near the Wisconsin border, might be cheaper.
>
> If you're only flying in once or twice per month, I suspect another
> 30-45 minutes (one way) in the car would save you a bundle. Where is
> your folks house?

I'm not in the market, just wondered what they go for now. The folks
live on the western shore of Turtle Lake, about a half mile south of I
and Lexington.
>
> I've heard South St Paul (SGS) is reasonably priced - home of Ballistic
> Recovery Systems (BRS). This airport is not part of the MAC reliever
> airport system - it's only 8 nautical miles (east) of MSP, and about 5
> miles (almost due south) of Downtown St Paul (STP).

One of the guys I went to high school with works at Wipaire as a
mechanic. I've landed there a few times too.

[George Patterson]

Darrel Toepfer wrote:

> $70 gets you a t-hanger at 4R7 ($50 a decade ago), $60 gets you one at
> 3R7...
>
> None are available at either... Tiedowns used to be free at 4R7, now
> they want to charge, but I don't remember what... 3R7 is planning on
> building more t-hangers, 4R7 is exploring a grant ($300k for 10
> t-hangers on last guesstimate)...

If building ten hangars costs $300k, the rents on the existing ones are
ridiculously low.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Some people have a lovely cottage on a lake -- we have a tin shack on a
> strip of asphalt. But I know where I'd rather hang out!

Yeah, but you pay next to nothing for it (you recently posted a figure of
something like $1,200/year?). Around here, you're looking at upwards of $5,000.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Our airport has talked about selling hangars to tenants, but it always gets
> swept aside as being unworkable.

You might do it the way they did it at Trenton/Mercer County (TTN). A private
company was allowed to build the hangars on airport property. Each hangar was
sold as if it were a "condominium" apartment (IIRC, the price for each was about
$45,000). That paid the developer back for his investment. The airport charges a
monthly maintenance fee.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Montblack]

("Newps" wrote)
> I'm not in the market, just wondered what they go for now. The folks live
> on the western shore of Turtle Lake, about a half mile south of I and
> Lexington.


Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/
Go to MN
Go to Mpls-St Paul area
Go to University of Minnesota Airport

(I have a friend who soloed at this airport in the late 1940's, when he was
a student at the U. He said it cost next to nothing for him to fly a J-3 Cub
there - as a U of M student.)

The intersection of County Rd I and I-35W is in the bottom of the 2001 color
photo of the U of M airport. County J is along the top of the open field
were the big new Wells Fargo Ops Center is today. Lexington Ave is off the
right side of the picture by an inch. Your folks place is over (diagonal
down) one box. <g>

ANE is just out of the picture to the top-left.

The list also includes "Southport" Airport - Apple Valley
County Rd 42 (150th St W) and Cedar Ave (State Hwy 77)
I saw the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels here as a kid.

"Northport" Airport in White Bear Lake hung on well into the 90's.


Montblack

[Darrel Toepfer]

George Patterson wrote:
> Darrel Toepfer wrote:
>
>> $70 gets you a t-hanger at 4R7 ($50 a decade ago), $60 gets you one at
>> 3R7...
>>
>> None are available at either... Tiedowns used to be free at 4R7, now
>> they want to charge, but I don't remember what... 3R7 is planning on
>> building more t-hangers, 4R7 is exploring a grant ($300k for 10
>> t-hangers on last guesstimate)...
>
> If building ten hangars costs $300k, the rents on the existing ones are
> ridiculously low.

New ones require sprinkler systems, old ones don't... They'll probably
tear the old ones down at some point to force a move to higher prices...

[Dan Luke]

"Dan Thompson" > wrote in message
. com...
> >a poultry 70.00 per month<
>
> Why, that's chicken feed!
>
tee-hee!

[Jay Honeck]

> On a serious note, have you considered the economy of building your own
> small hangar and sharing it with a few good tenants? or keeping it to
> yourself? A long term lease on the land and then you are simply putting in
> the improvements..

Yes. Many of us would do this in a heartbeat, if the city would allow it.

Alas, they still would rather build and own the hangars, and lease them.
I'm sure it's for the same old "how can we ever close this airport if pilots
own the hangars" reasons...

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Dave S" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
> > MY capitalist greedy side disagrees.
>>
>> If there's a waiting list, it's time to build more hangars!
>>
>> :-)
>
> Good corrolary, Jay...
>
>
> Dave
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Yeah, but you pay next to nothing for it (you recently posted a figure of
> something like $1,200/year?). Around here, you're looking at upwards of
> $5,000.

True enough. (It's actually $1400 and change...)

So why, again, do you choose to live where hangars are unaffordable?

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[John Doe]

"Kobra" > wrote in message
...
> Hangar tenents,
>
> Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars
> for 100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There
> are plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of
> curiosity ... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make
> you say, "THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME
> A FRICKIN' TIE-DOWN."
>
> Kobra
>

More than my house.

[Ray Andraka]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>Yeah, but you pay next to nothing for it (you recently posted a figure of
>>something like $1,200/year?). Around here, you're looking at upwards of
>>$5,000.
>
>
> True enough. (It's actually $1400 and change...)
>
> So why, again, do you choose to live where hangars are unaffordable?
>
> :-)

Because that's where the jobs are that pay for our airplane habits?

[Jon Kraus]

Then maybe the chickens can peck the ice off the plane. :-)

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ

Dan Thompson wrote:
>>a poultry 70.00 per month<
>
>
> Why, that's chicken feed!
>
> "Kobra" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hangar tenents,
>>
>>Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars
>>for 100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There
>>are plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of
>>curiosity ... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make
>>you say, "THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME
>>A FRICKIN' TIE-DOWN."
>>
>>Kobra
>>
>
>
>

[Jon Kraus]

We currently have our Mooney in a large heated community hanger with in
and out service provided for $300 a month. Our airport (TYQ) is
undergoing some major expansion, part of which ripping down some old
dilapidated T's and the building of about 60 brand new ones. The new
ones will have remote controlled bi-fold doors, lights, electricity, and
access to a plane washing facility. The rent for these will be $340
per month. We have first pick of the new ones if we want. I know it is
expensive but part of the benefits of being in a partnership is that I
only have to pay half. :-) I can't imagine having to permanently tie
down outside.

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ

Kobra wrote:

> Hangar tenents,
>
> Hypothetical situation: You're in a hangar. There are no more hangars for
> 100 miles. There is a waiting list for a hangar just as long. There are
> plenty of tie-downs for a poultry 70.00 per month. Just out of curiosity
> ... what would be the magic price of hangar rent that would make you say,
> "THAT'S IT!! I'M OUTTA HERE!! YOU CAN HAVE THE HANGAR...GIVE ME A FRICKIN'
> TIE-DOWN."
>
> Kobra
>
>

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> So why, again, do you choose to live where hangars are unaffordable?

'Cause if we wanted cheap hangars, we'd have to live in some place like Iowa.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[nrp]

>Cause if we wanted cheap hangars, we'd have to live in some place like Iowa.<

(Good comeback George!)

You could also come to Shell Lake WI (SSQ) where we have a wonderful
hard surface municipal airport with lites and instrument approaches,
and where the city and the airport manager (me) would be happy to have
aircraft owners build more private hangars @ 12 cents per sq ft per
year rent on the projected floor space area. Right now we have 11
hangars and about 13 aircraft based there - and even some hangar space
available. Tiedowns are free on the ramp for short stays. All aircaft
based there are hangared.

There is a WI personal property tax that typically runs $300 to $400
per year for a solid hangar. Like several other pilots I live across
the street from the airport & have lakeshore if I walk out the other
door. The lake is large (2500 acres), clean and deep (40 ft), and we
now have our previous flood situation under control. The city has many
other unrelated amenities.

Only downsides are no fuel (12 mi away) and no FBO, but there's no
corrosion & plenty of problem-solving local networking (and plenty of
winter too!).

[Newps]

George Patterson wrote:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> So why, again, do you choose to live where hangars are unaffordable?
>
>
> 'Cause if we wanted cheap hangars, we'd have to live in some place like
> Iowa.

Yeah, that'd be a hell of a step down from New Jersey.

[Dave S]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Yes. Many of us would do this in a heartbeat, if the city would allow it.
>
> Alas, they still would rather build and own the hangars, and lease them.
> I'm sure it's for the same old "how can we ever close this airport if pilots
> own the hangars" reasons...
>
> :-(

Thats interesting...

I too am in a city hangar, but they are literally the Taj Mahal of
T-hangars.. They have two 20 amp feeds in the older ones, and the newer
ones have single 20 amp feeds. Sodium lamps over the main bay,
florescent lighting over the personnel door. Each of the small T hangars
(V-shaped, really) are able to hold a high and low wing easily or even a
corporate aircraft each. The LARGE ones.. well.. we have 3 Mig 21's in
one, a Huey and 2 Hillers in another, and one had 2 Longs, A cozy, A
cirrus and a cabin twin shoehorned in it. Gas heating for freeze
protection. No power meters. Its "behind the fence" and there is
security on-site 24-7 because of the military and NASA presence. On-site
CFR too, and several CAT 1 ILS runways. We pay about $400 for the small
ones and about $800 for the big ones a month.

BUT... Houston really doesnt want to be in the hangar business, believe
it or not, and they would prefer to issue a long term lease with
conditions. In Houston's case, there is a requirement for continuous
improvement over time, and the improvements become part of the lot.

I can not imagine why the city there would not want to be able to simply
lease the land, collect their money and not have to do anything more
than ensure code compliance. Not have to screen tenants (the hangar
builders can do that), issue keys, replace lightbulbs and so forth.

So, Jay... I guess the city wouldn't let you put a ramp adjacent to the
Hotel and allow you to have planes park there? Or perhaps allow you to
become some sort of competing FBO?

Dave

[Jay Honeck]

> So, Jay... I guess the city wouldn't let you put a ramp adjacent to the
> Hotel and allow you to have planes park there? Or perhaps allow you to
> become some sort of competing FBO?

When Rwy 36 closes (next year?), we hope to get permission to let people
park at the end nearest us. Otherwise, building a ramp would be
prohibitively expensive. (They don't just let you pour a slab of concrete
anymore, you know. EPA, DOT, etc. all get involved with their "impact
statements"...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"N93332" > wrote in message
...
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:BQCmf.394424$084.284591@attbi_s22...
>>> New hangars came available at the airport I fly out of and I
>>> bought two. The rent on one pays for the annual costs for both. 39 T
>>> hangars sold in in about two weeks.
>>
>> How does that work, Dave? Is this a private airport, or municipal?
>>
>> Our airport has talked about selling hangars to tenants, but it always
>> gets swept aside as being unworkable.
>
> I've seen a few places that have privately owned hangars on
> municipal/public airports. Check out Morningstar in Des Moines sometime.
> When I had my plane at Sleepy Eye (y58), I rented one of the three spots
> in a hangar from the hangar owner. He also offered to sell me a third of
> the hangar. I didn't buy it; I'm now 60+ miles from there.
>
> -Greg B.
>

Here in El Dorado AR (ELD) all the hangers are privately owned on leased
land. The lease is about $500/yr on the land the hanger cost about 25K to
build.

www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

[Newps]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

>>
>
>
> Here in El Dorado AR (ELD) all the hangers are privately owned on leased
> land. The lease is about $500/yr on the land the hanger cost about 25K to
> build.

Same here in Billings. To build a 60x60, which is the smallest you are
allowed, will run you $90K.