Keeping the Hangar Clear of Snow

[Jay Honeck]

We're facing the snowiest fall ever in Iowa, which has required shoveling
pretty much every other day. (Gosh, I can hardly wait for winter!)

Our airport plows the ramps and runways well, but they always leave a strip
of snow approximately 2 - 3 feet out from the hangar door. This, of course,
needs to be cleared before the plane can be removed.

We keep a snow shovel at the hangar, of course, and occasionally (like,
today) we truck our snow blower in when the snow is really heavy and deep.

I've thought about tipping the snow plow driver to get him to plow as close
to the hangar door as possible (when the airport manager was a friend of
ours, he always took extra care to plow as close as possible), but I never
seem to catch the guy. Our FBO is useless in this regard, only shoveling
right around their office door entry way, and not getting involved with the
hangars in any way at all anymore.

Anyone got any tricks for keeping the hangar ramp clear of snow?

Also, can anyone recommend something they put down on ice that (a) enhances
traction (b) melts snow, (c) doesn't harm aluminum, and (d) doesn't leave a
gritty, prop-eroding residue?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Al Gilson]

Two to three feet? Is that all? I have an approach in front of my
rental hanger that is about 35 feet to the plowed taxiway. The airport
guys do the taxiway. I do the rest. I zip over from my office during
the lunch hour, before work, after work, etc. whenever it snows, in
order to keep it clear. If I miss a storm and it gets too deep, I toss
the snowblower from home into the truck and do it on the weekend. One
secret: I built a "snow-pusher." This is a wide 1x6 board with a long
handle. I can clear that 35x15 foot approach of 2 inches of light snow
in about 5-10 minutes. My goal is to keep the approach clear before
anyone drives or parks a car on it-packing down the snow.

On your other question: I don't think there is anything that changes
the melting teperature of snow that is not corrosive to some metals.

Al
1964 Cessna 172
Spokane, WA



Jay Honeck wrote:
> We're facing the snowiest fall ever in Iowa, which has required shoveling
> pretty much every other day. (Gosh, I can hardly wait for winter!)
>
> Our airport plows the ramps and runways well, but they always leave a strip
> of snow approximately 2 - 3 feet out from the hangar door. This, of course,
> needs to be cleared before the plane can be removed.
>
> We keep a snow shovel at the hangar, of course, and occasionally (like,
> today) we truck our snow blower in when the snow is really heavy and deep.
>
> I've thought about tipping the snow plow driver to get him to plow as close
> to the hangar door as possible (when the airport manager was a friend of
> ours, he always took extra care to plow as close as possible), but I never
> seem to catch the guy. Our FBO is useless in this regard, only shoveling
> right around their office door entry way, and not getting involved with the
> hangars in any way at all anymore.
>
> Anyone got any tricks for keeping the hangar ramp clear of snow?
>
> Also, can anyone recommend something they put down on ice that (a) enhances
> traction (b) melts snow, (c) doesn't harm aluminum, and (d) doesn't leave a
> gritty, prop-eroding residue?

[john smith]

In article >,
Al Gilson > wrote:

> Two to three feet? Is that all? I have an approach in front of my
> rental hanger that is about 35 feet to the plowed taxiway. The airport
> guys do the taxiway. I do the rest. I zip over from my office during
> the lunch hour, before work, after work, etc. whenever it snows, in
> order to keep it clear. If I miss a storm and it gets too deep, I toss
> the snowblower from home into the truck and do it on the weekend. One
> secret: I built a "snow-pusher." This is a wide 1x6 board with a long
> handle. I can clear that 35x15 foot approach of 2 inches of light snow
> in about 5-10 minutes. My goal is to keep the approach clear before
> anyone drives or parks a car on it-packing down the snow.
>
> On your other question: I don't think there is anything that changes
> the melting teperature of snow that is not corrosive to some metals.
>
> Al
> 1964 Cessna 172
> Spokane, WA
>
>
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
> > We're facing the snowiest fall ever in Iowa, which has required shoveling
> > pretty much every other day. (Gosh, I can hardly wait for winter!)
> >
> > Our airport plows the ramps and runways well, but they always leave a strip
> > of snow approximately 2 - 3 feet out from the hangar door. This, of
> > course,
> > needs to be cleared before the plane can be removed.
> >
> > We keep a snow shovel at the hangar, of course, and occasionally (like,
> > today) we truck our snow blower in when the snow is really heavy and deep.
> >
> > I've thought about tipping the snow plow driver to get him to plow as close
> > to the hangar door as possible (when the airport manager was a friend of
> > ours, he always took extra care to plow as close as possible), but I never
> > seem to catch the guy. Our FBO is useless in this regard, only shoveling
> > right around their office door entry way, and not getting involved with the
> > hangars in any way at all anymore.
> >
> > Anyone got any tricks for keeping the hangar ramp clear of snow?

Time to get a blade for The Grape! Pounds of fuel translates to
traction. Think of the benefits of being able to plow the Inn's parking
lots. Think of the money young Joe will be able to make in future years.

> > Also, can anyone recommend something they put down on ice that (a) enhances
> > traction (b) melts snow, (c) doesn't harm aluminum, and (d) doesn't leave a
> > gritty, prop-eroding residue?

Is urea still applied at some airports?

[Mike Rapoport]

The riding lawn mower has to live somewhere in the winter and ours lives at
the hanger with a snowblower attached (We have a large tractor with a 72"
blower for the driveway). The most painful part was shelling out $80 for
lawn tractor chains.



Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:103of.646180$xm3.454419@attbi_s21...
> We're facing the snowiest fall ever in Iowa, which has required shoveling
> pretty much every other day. (Gosh, I can hardly wait for winter!)
>
> Our airport plows the ramps and runways well, but they always leave a
> strip of snow approximately 2 - 3 feet out from the hangar door. This, of
> course, needs to be cleared before the plane can be removed.
>
> We keep a snow shovel at the hangar, of course, and occasionally (like,
> today) we truck our snow blower in when the snow is really heavy and deep.
>
> I've thought about tipping the snow plow driver to get him to plow as
> close to the hangar door as possible (when the airport manager was a
> friend of ours, he always took extra care to plow as close as possible),
> but I never seem to catch the guy. Our FBO is useless in this regard,
> only shoveling right around their office door entry way, and not getting
> involved with the hangars in any way at all anymore.
>
> Anyone got any tricks for keeping the hangar ramp clear of snow?
>
> Also, can anyone recommend something they put down on ice that (a)
> enhances traction (b) melts snow, (c) doesn't harm aluminum, and (d)
> doesn't leave a gritty, prop-eroding residue?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jim Burns]

I "just" got back from the airport shoveling. Nick and I did our hanger,
and two neighbors that, in the past, have shoveled ours out. Snow was about
6", drifts 9", and still coming down at a very high rate. No 2 wheel drive
vehicles to be seen.

The approach to our hanger is sloped uphill, which you would think, would
allow for the water to run away from the hanger... well kinda... if the snow
melts off the roof, water then drips down in front of the hanger and
freezes, it creates a huge ice dam(n) right in front of the door, from then
on, the water runs INTO the hanger.... grrrr freezes the door to the ground
and sometimes freezes inside the hanger..... instant in door ice skating
rink!

So, unless we've got about 40 of Santa's Elves equipped with cleated elf
shoes.... we use sand, kitty litter, floor dry, oil absorb to enable 1) us
mear mortal's to stand up and 2) the electric tug to get better traction to
push the plane into the hanger.

I've been thinking about some kind of rubber mat, maybe a 10 foot strip of
12" wide conveyor belting, drilling a bunch of holes in it, then putting
carriage bolts through, washers and nuts on the bottom side so they would
dig into the ice. Kind of a ice gripping rubber sidewalk for the tug to
drive along.

As for melting snow... I won't touch anything like that... I've seen wayyyy
too much equipment eaten up by salt and other chemicals to throw anything
like that around an airplane.... A couple guys have tried the nitrogen
based materials that our airport sells, only to find that they eat up the
concrete in their hangers. We use as little sand or kitty litter as
possible, only to get the plane pushed back inside, then we shovel up what
we can so others don't taxi through it.

Jim

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:103of.646180$xm3.454419@attbi_s21...
> We're facing the snowiest fall ever in Iowa, which has required shoveling
> pretty much every other day. (Gosh, I can hardly wait for winter!)
>
> Our airport plows the ramps and runways well, but they always leave a
strip
> of snow approximately 2 - 3 feet out from the hangar door. This, of
course,
> needs to be cleared before the plane can be removed.
>
> We keep a snow shovel at the hangar, of course, and occasionally (like,
> today) we truck our snow blower in when the snow is really heavy and deep.
>
> I've thought about tipping the snow plow driver to get him to plow as
close
> to the hangar door as possible (when the airport manager was a friend of
> ours, he always took extra care to plow as close as possible), but I never
> seem to catch the guy. Our FBO is useless in this regard, only shoveling
> right around their office door entry way, and not getting involved with
the
> hangars in any way at all anymore.
>
> Anyone got any tricks for keeping the hangar ramp clear of snow?
>
> Also, can anyone recommend something they put down on ice that (a)
enhances
> traction (b) melts snow, (c) doesn't harm aluminum, and (d) doesn't leave
a
> gritty, prop-eroding residue?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[George Patterson]

john smith wrote:

> Time to get a blade for The Grape!

Another possibility is the sort of independently powered large snowblowers that
mount on lawn tractors. A new one for my tractor would cost $600. When this sort
of thing comes up on Ebay, it's frequently pretty cheap 'cause you have to pick
it up. Jerry-rig a way to hook it up to the front of the Grape.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[George Patterson]

Jim Burns wrote:

> if the snow
> melts off the roof, water then drips down in front of the hanger and
> freezes, it creates a huge ice dam(n) right in front of the door, from then
> on, the water runs INTO the hanger.... grrrr freezes the door to the ground
> and sometimes freezes inside the hanger..... instant in door ice skating
> rink!

Install a gutter up there. Full width of the hangar. Don't put ends on it. All
the melt water will run over to the ends of the building. Slope the gutter both
ways from the center if you can.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[BTIZ]

> Anyone got any tricks for keeping the hangar ramp clear of snow?
>

Move farther south..

BT

[Jay Honeck]

>> Anyone got any tricks for keeping the hangar ramp clear of snow?
>>
>
> Move farther south..

I'll tell you what -- if this crazy fall is any indication of what winter
will bring, I'll be with you 100%...

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> I'll tell you what -- if this crazy fall is any indication of what winter
> will bring, I'll be with you 100%...

Choose carefully. Last Friday, the Texas stockbroker on NPR said it was 15
degrees down there. And they get hurricanes there and in the southeast, so you
don't want to go there. Maybe Arizona?

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Jay Honeck]

>> I'll tell you what -- if this crazy fall is any indication of what winter
>> will bring, I'll be with you 100%...
>
> Choose carefully. Last Friday, the Texas stockbroker on NPR said it was 15
> degrees down there. And they get hurricanes there and in the southeast, so
> you don't want to go there. Maybe Arizona?

Just so I can broil from April till October? Nah. Maybe someday, when I
can be a snowbird, but I couldn't stand living there year 'round. My eyes
just crave the intense green of spring in the Midwest, after a week in the
desert.

Kinda like this:

http://alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/2005MaquoketaCaves/SGreenGrassofIowa%20from%20air%206-05.jpg

and this:

http://alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/2005MaquoketaCaves/SFamily%20on%20trail%20%206-05.jpg

I don't think there is a perfect climate, outside of Southern California --
and that area has pretty much been ruined, sadly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[RST Engineering]

Ah, grasshopper, you need to consider Northern California or Southern Oregon
for your nirvana. Four full seasons, much rain, little snow, much summer
sun, little winter chill below freezing.

Jim


My eyes
> just crave the intense green of spring in the Midwest, after a week in the
> desert.

[Matt Whiting]

RST Engineering wrote:
> Ah, grasshopper, you need to consider Northern California or Southern Oregon
> for your nirvana. Four full seasons, much rain, little snow, much summer
> sun, little winter chill below freezing.

Or Hawaii.

Matt

[Jim Carter]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Whiting ]
> Posted At: Thursday, December 15, 2005 4:50 AM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
> Conversation: Keeping the Hangar Clear of Snow
> Subject: Re: Keeping the Hangar Clear of Snow
>
> RST Engineering wrote:
> > Ah, grasshopper, you need to consider Northern California or
Southern
> Oregon
> > for your nirvana. Four full seasons, much rain, little snow, much
> summer
> > sun, little winter chill below freezing.
>
> Or Hawaii.
>
> Matt


But after summer, what other seasons does Hawaii have?

Jim C.

[[email protected]]

>Is urea still applied at some airports?

Urea is used as nitrogen-type fertilizer. We've used it on the
runway at low application rates to get thin skins of ice off it. The
urea will melt or cause evaporation of small patches of ice so that the
sun can warm those little patches of pavement and begin the warming
process that gets rid of the rest of the ice. Ice and/or snow will
reflect the sun's heat back into space.
Some have used soot applied to the snow or ice to absorb light
and start melting. Soot, though, is commonly found in ashes, which can
be corrosive.
Sawdust can be used to gain traction on ice. Only disadvantage
is its being tracked into the hangar, airplane, house, whatever.

Dan

[Jay Honeck]

> Or Hawaii.

I'd sure need some looooong-range tanks on our Pathfinder to be able to fly
anywhere!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> RST Engineering wrote:
> > Ah, grasshopper, you need to consider Northern California or Southern Oregon
> > for your nirvana. Four full seasons, much rain, little snow, much summer
> > sun, little winter chill below freezing.
>
> Or Hawaii.

You'll need a real good crosswind technique, and a willingness to use
it often.

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> I don't think there is a perfect climate, outside of Southern California --
> and that area has pretty much been ruined, sadly.

ain't that the truth. My friend who lives there has a house with no
a/c and no insulation, and they don't need either, and their backyard
really is part of their everyday living space, basically all year
round. Then you leave their house to drive somewhere and oh crap.

[Jim Burns]

Urea is 46% N. We buy and use it by the truck load on the farm. Some time
when you don't have anything better to do, stop by your local fertilizer
co-op. Take a look at their trucks or ask them to see the equipment that
they spread or haul urea with. If it isn't wood, plastic, stainless steel,
or brand new it will have corrosion, pitting, and rust. If aluminum wasn't
affected by urea, we'd use aluminum tanks, hoppers, mixers, conveyors and
augers rather than stainless, everything would be a LOT lighter. Granted,
urea isn't AS corrosive as phosphates and potassiums, but urea by itself
will corrode aluminum. It will corrode copper. It will corrode steel.
I've got plenty of equipment around here that is specifically used to handle
urea and other nitrogen fertilizers that can testify to that. An airplane
makes a well balanced diet for urea.
Jim

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> >Is urea still applied at some airports?
>
> Urea is used as nitrogen-type fertilizer. We've used it on the
> runway at low application rates to get thin skins of ice off it. The
> urea will melt or cause evaporation of small patches of ice so that the
> sun can warm those little patches of pavement and begin the warming
> process that gets rid of the rest of the ice. Ice and/or snow will
> reflect the sun's heat back into space.
> Some have used soot applied to the snow or ice to absorb light
> and start melting. Soot, though, is commonly found in ashes, which can
> be corrosive.
> Sawdust can be used to gain traction on ice. Only disadvantage
> is its being tracked into the hangar, airplane, house, whatever.
>
> Dan
>

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"Jim Carter" > wrote:

>
>
> But after summer, what other seasons does Hawaii have?

Problem is -- there aren't very many airplanes in Hawaii. It is also one
of the most GA-unfriendly states in the US.

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.

[Mike Noel]

Not that I want any more people moving to Arizona, but Arizona is a lot more
than hot summer desert. We also have mountains, canyons and high grasslands
all having their own unique climates.

I can drive 45 minutes south from Tucson and be dry and 90 instead of dry
and 105. I can drive 45 minutes and be at the top of a 9000' mountain in
pines, aspens and firs with temps in the 70's. In the summer you pick the
cooler destinations and in winter the warmer.

Using an airplane we can fly VFR to many of those kinds of places all year
round. We may miss our $100 hamburger 3 or 4 times a year because of
weather. Here it's hard to justify buying a 396.

--
Best Regards,
Mike
http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel
"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:gl7of.630053$_o.98247@attbi_s71...
>>> I'll tell you what -- if this crazy fall is any indication of what
>>> winter will bring, I'll be with you 100%...
>>
>> Choose carefully. Last Friday, the Texas stockbroker on NPR said it was
>> 15 degrees down there. And they get hurricanes there and in the
>> southeast, so you don't want to go there. Maybe Arizona?
>
> Just so I can broil from April till October? Nah. Maybe someday, when I
> can be a snowbird, but I couldn't stand living there year 'round. My
> eyes just crave the intense green of spring in the Midwest, after a week
> in the desert.
>
> Kinda like this:
>
> http://alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/2005MaquoketaCaves/SGreenGrassofIowa%20from%20air%206-05.jpg
>
> and this:
>
> http://alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/2005MaquoketaCaves/SFamily%20on%20trail%20%206-05.jpg
>
> I don't think there is a perfect climate, outside of Southern
> California -- and that area has pretty much been ruined, sadly.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Doug]

You can fly around the island you are on. Every island has at least one
airport. Oahu, Maui and Hawaii have several. And you can fly from
island to island. But once you do all that, there isn't much of
anywhere else you can fly that is within range. Nothing at all for
thousands of miles (well there is Midway, with one airport).

My sister lives on Oahu and she has neither heat nor air conditioning
in her house. It's a nice climate, and a lot of variety (desert,
jungle, mountains and beaches), but there is NO PLACE TO GO. I get
island fever. Also, aluminum corrodes something fierce over there. My
sisters window frames all have white aluminum dust on the bottom
tracks. It's scary to think what would happen to an aluminum plane in
that environment. There are, however, some GA aircraft and at least
three flight schools in the state.

[john smith]

In article <gl7of.630053$_o.98247@attbi_s71>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> > Choose carefully. Last Friday, the Texas stockbroker on NPR said it was 15
> > degrees down there. And they get hurricanes there and in the southeast, so
> > you don't want to go there. Maybe Arizona?
>
> Just so I can broil from April till October? Nah. Maybe someday, when I
> can be a snowbird, but I couldn't stand living there year 'round. My eyes
> just crave the intense green of spring in the Midwest, after a week in the
> desert.

Remember last month or so, Jay was discussing finding a second lodging
site to invest in, somewhere in the south? Now we know exactly why!

[Jay Beckman]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>> I don't think there is a perfect climate, outside of Southern
>> California --
>> and that area has pretty much been ruined, sadly.
>
> ain't that the truth. My friend who lives there has a house with no
> a/c and no insulation, and they don't need either, and their backyard
> really is part of their everyday living space, basically all year
> round. Then you leave their house to drive somewhere and oh crap.

And they probably paid something like $1.7 million for 800sqft of living
space, didn't they?

(I'm being a smart ass ... sort of ... it's this willingness our friends to
the west have when it comes to paying way too much for way too little that's
really screwing up the Phoenix market right now.)

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

[Matt Whiting]

Doug wrote:

> You can fly around the island you are on. Every island has at least one
> airport. Oahu, Maui and Hawaii have several. And you can fly from
> island to island. But once you do all that, there isn't much of
> anywhere else you can fly that is within range. Nothing at all for
> thousands of miles (well there is Midway, with one airport).
>
> My sister lives on Oahu and she has neither heat nor air conditioning
> in her house. It's a nice climate, and a lot of variety (desert,
> jungle, mountains and beaches), but there is NO PLACE TO GO. I get
> island fever. Also, aluminum corrodes something fierce over there. My
> sisters window frames all have white aluminum dust on the bottom
> tracks. It's scary to think what would happen to an aluminum plane in
> that environment. There are, however, some GA aircraft and at least
> three flight schools in the state.
>

The topic was keeping the hangar clear of snow. In Hawaii this isn't a
problem.


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Beckman wrote:

> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>Jay Honeck wrote:
>>
>>>I don't think there is a perfect climate, outside of Southern
>>>California --
>>>and that area has pretty much been ruined, sadly.
>>
>>ain't that the truth. My friend who lives there has a house with no
>>a/c and no insulation, and they don't need either, and their backyard
>>really is part of their everyday living space, basically all year
>>round. Then you leave their house to drive somewhere and oh crap.
>
>
> And they probably paid something like $1.7 million for 800sqft of living
> space, didn't they?

And even funnier is that they measure their lot sizes in the same units
as their house sizes ... square feet. I thought that was a joke when an
employee brought back a real estate listing from Garden Grove a few
years ago when I had to transfer him out there.

Matt

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/15/2005 15:35, Matt Whiting wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>
>> You can fly around the island you are on. Every island has at least one
>> airport. Oahu, Maui and Hawaii have several. And you can fly from
>> island to island. But once you do all that, there isn't much of
>> anywhere else you can fly that is within range. Nothing at all for
>> thousands of miles (well there is Midway, with one airport).
>>
>> My sister lives on Oahu and she has neither heat nor air conditioning
>> in her house. It's a nice climate, and a lot of variety (desert,
>> jungle, mountains and beaches), but there is NO PLACE TO GO. I get
>> island fever. Also, aluminum corrodes something fierce over there. My
>> sisters window frames all have white aluminum dust on the bottom
>> tracks. It's scary to think what would happen to an aluminum plane in
>> that environment. There are, however, some GA aircraft and at least
>> three flight schools in the state.
>>
>
> The topic was keeping the hangar clear of snow. In Hawaii this isn't a
> problem.

Except perhaps black snow ... but I guess that isn't freezing ;-)

>
>
> Matt


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

[JJS]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message ...

Hi Jim,

> Urea is 46% N.

Not necessarily. It is cut with water at the manufacturing plant. The stuff that goes to feedlots is usually 70%...
sometimes 50%. The higher concentrations "salt out" faster and solidify. IIRCC 70% salts out at + or - 134 deg. F.
it is hauled in insulated trailers, usually with a steam coil inside like asphalt trailer have. The trailers are
usually stainless.

>We buy and use it by the truck load on the farm.

How in the heck can you afford it? :' )

Some time
> when you don't have anything better to do, stop by your local fertilizer
> co-op. Take a look at their trucks or ask them to see the equipment that
> they spread or haul urea with. If it isn't wood, plastic, stainless steel,
> or brand new it will have corrosion, pitting, and rust. If aluminum wasn't
> affected by urea, we'd use aluminum tanks, hoppers, mixers, conveyors and
> augers rather than stainless, everything would be a LOT lighter. Granted,
> urea isn't AS corrosive as phosphates and potassiums, but urea by itself
> will corrode aluminum. It will corrode copper. It will corrode steel.
> I've got plenty of equipment around here that is specifically used to handle
> urea and other nitrogen fertilizers that can testify to that. An airplane
> makes a well balanced diet for urea.

The piping, exchanger tubes, and vessels are usually 316 or 304 stainless in the manufacturing facilities just for
the reasons you cite.

Joe Schneider
Cherokee 8437R
ex-Urea plant operator & poor farmer / rancher who can't afford to top dress his wheat this spring.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Jay Beckman]

"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
...
> Not that I want any more people moving to Arizona, but Arizona is a lot
> more than hot summer desert. We also have mountains, canyons and high
> grasslands all having their own unique climates.
>
> I can drive 45 minutes south from Tucson and be dry and 90 instead of dry
> and 105. I can drive 45 minutes and be at the top of a 9000' mountain in
> pines, aspens and firs with temps in the 70's. In the summer you pick the
> cooler destinations and in winter the warmer.
>
> Using an airplane we can fly VFR to many of those kinds of places all year
> round. We may miss our $100 hamburger 3 or 4 times a year because of
> weather. Here it's hard to justify buying a 396.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Mike

Mike,

Sssssssssshhhhhhhhh,

You'll give away all our secrets!

(FWIW, there is an outstanding show that pops up from time to time on the
Hi-Def network "INHD" called Above Arizona: An Aerial Tour. It's a
fabulous showcase of the diversity to which Mike aludes.)

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

[Dave Stadt]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Doug wrote:
>
> > You can fly around the island you are on. Every island has at least one
> > airport. Oahu, Maui and Hawaii have several. And you can fly from
> > island to island. But once you do all that, there isn't much of
> > anywhere else you can fly that is within range. Nothing at all for
> > thousands of miles (well there is Midway, with one airport).
> >
> > My sister lives on Oahu and she has neither heat nor air conditioning
> > in her house. It's a nice climate, and a lot of variety (desert,
> > jungle, mountains and beaches), but there is NO PLACE TO GO. I get
> > island fever. Also, aluminum corrodes something fierce over there. My
> > sisters window frames all have white aluminum dust on the bottom
> > tracks. It's scary to think what would happen to an aluminum plane in
> > that environment. There are, however, some GA aircraft and at least
> > three flight schools in the state.
> >
>
> The topic was keeping the hangar clear of snow. In Hawaii this isn't a
> problem.
>
>
> Matt

Problem solved.

[Montblack]

("Dave Stadt" wrote)
> Problem solved.


First rule for getting yourself out of a hole ....stop [shoveling]


Montblack <g>
Light snow again tonight

[Jim Burns]

> > Urea is 46% N.
>
> Not necessarily. It is cut with water at the manufacturing plant. The
stuff that goes to feedlots is usually 70%...
> sometimes 50%. The higher concentrations "salt out" faster and solidify.
IIRCC 70% salts out at + or - 134 deg. F.
> it is hauled in insulated trailers, usually with a steam coil inside like
asphalt trailer have. The trailers are
> usually stainless.

Ah... dry vs. liquid... I don't know of any liquid Urea used here in WI.
There may be some TMR plants that use it for dairy rations, but as far as
farming, it's all 46% dry prilled product. That 70% liquid stuff must be
like slime! :) We use a lot of 34-0-0 liquid N, and it's slippery as egg
whites.... can't imagine 70% !

Jim

[cpw]

These are kind of handy for quick, non-motorized snow removal. I've
used one for years.
www.snowscoop.com/
CPW