Charging for instruction, no instructor rating

[Doug]

Guy has an airplane, commercial certificate but no instructor rating
and takes students up for acrobatic lessons, mountain checkouts and
charges for it. FAA legal?

[three-eight-hotel]

>> Guy has an airplane, commercial certificate but no instructor rating
>> and takes students up for acrobatic lessons, mountain checkouts and
>> charges for it. FAA legal?

How could anyone give an endorsement or allow someone log dual time
received without and instructor rating?

[Stubby]

three-eight-hotel wrote:
>>>Guy has an airplane, commercial certificate but no instructor rating
>>>and takes students up for acrobatic lessons, mountain checkouts and
>>>charges for it. FAA legal?
>
>
> How could anyone give an endorsement or allow someone log dual time
> received without and instructor rating?
>
It will all get very clear after the "student" has an accident and the
NTSB looks into ratings and the qualifications of the person that
granted them.

[Doug]

Nothing mentioned about giving endorsements. He is just teaching the
pilot acrobatics and how to fly in the mountains. Nothing about the
pilot being able to log the flight either.

[Robert M. Gary]

As long as he has a 2nd class medical and the plane has a 100 hr
inspection it should be fine (and doesn't 'transport" people, i.e
returns them to the same airport they left). His insurance would
probably be pretty high though. Doesn't count as dual or insurance or
anything though. In a practical sense, CFIs often have a hard enough
time getting business, this guys going to be working hard.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

Also, remember that for insurance purposes, the "pilot flying" must
meet the policy requirement. Insurance companies don't worry about this
PIC crap.

-Robert

[Jim Macklin]

As long as he does NOT endorse their logbook, yes. Does it
count toward any rating, NO. Is he qualified, maybe. Is
his insurance valid, who knows. Has his airplane had the
required inspections? Does he have a 135 certificate and
does he need one? Probably for the mountain check outs,
maybe not for just acro local flights.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm






"Doug" > wrote in message
ups.com...
| Guy has an airplane, commercial certificate but no
instructor rating
| and takes students up for acrobatic lessons, mountain
checkouts and
| charges for it. FAA legal?
|

[Bob Gardner]

I think that he should read FAR 119.1 (tied to Part 135 operations). The way
I read it, he has to stay within 25 miles of the departure airport and not
land anywhere else. Within those restrictions, he seems to be OK. There
might be a drug testing question, too, but I'm fuzzy on that.

Bob Gardner

"Doug" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Guy has an airplane, commercial certificate but no instructor rating
> and takes students up for acrobatic lessons, mountain checkouts and
> charges for it. FAA legal?
>

[three-eight-hotel]

I was interpreting "lessons" and "checkouts" to mean that there would
be some endorsement that went along with that... My bad.

I gave my 7 year old daughter a flying lesson a couple of months ago.
It was a blast! As far as instruction goes, as you intended, there's
no difference? (Except that I'm not a commercial pilot and I didn't
charge her ;-)

Best Regards,
Todd

[RST Engineering]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> As long as he has a 2nd class medical

I don't believe so.


and the plane has a 100 hr
> inspection

I don't believe so.

Jim

[Matt Whiting]

Doug wrote:
> Guy has an airplane, commercial certificate but no instructor rating
> and takes students up for acrobatic lessons, mountain checkouts and
> charges for it. FAA legal?
>

As long as he isn't signing their log book and impersonating a
certificated instructor, I don't see why it would be illegal.

Matt

[Judah]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in
:

> I think that he should read FAR 119.1 (tied to Part 135 operations).
> The way I read it, he has to stay within 25 miles of the departure
> airport and not land anywhere else. Within those restrictions, he
> seems to be OK. There might be a drug testing question, too, but I'm
> fuzzy on that.
>
> Bob Gardner
>
> "Doug" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Guy has an airplane, commercial certificate but no instructor rating
>> and takes students up for acrobatic lessons, mountain checkouts and
>> charges for it. FAA legal?
>>

I think the bigger issue is with the plane. Does he needs to be renting the
plane or letting the customer bring his own to avoid "holding out" -
requiring a Part 135 certificate for the operation...

[Robert M. Gary]

Its good that the world doesn't sit around and wait to see what "RST
believes"!
I know of serveral pilots that have worked for a well known firm in
Napa that offers rides to pax, including aerobatics, including letting
the pax try some aerobatics themselves. None of them are CFIs. The
operation is in good graces will the FAA. If you can think of any reg
that you think prohibits this you should consider posting it.

[Robert M. Gary]

Lots of places offer airplane site-seeing rides that are not 135.
Nothing wrong with offering rides as long as everything is commercial.
You don't need 135 for that.

[Bob Gardner]

Robert Gary is exactly right. That's one of the lines between Part 91 and
135. A Part 91 pilot with a commercial certificate can give "rides" if s/he
stays within 25 miles of the departure airport and doesn't land anywhere
else. If s/he wants to take someone 26 miles away and land, an Air
Taxi/Commercial Operator certificate is required...with a ton of new
regulations that must be observed.

Bob Gardner

"Judah" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in
> :
>
>> I think that he should read FAR 119.1 (tied to Part 135 operations).
>> The way I read it, he has to stay within 25 miles of the departure
>> airport and not land anywhere else. Within those restrictions, he
>> seems to be OK. There might be a drug testing question, too, but I'm
>> fuzzy on that.
>>
>> Bob Gardner
>>
>> "Doug" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> Guy has an airplane, commercial certificate but no instructor rating
>>> and takes students up for acrobatic lessons, mountain checkouts and
>>> charges for it. FAA legal?
>>>
>
> I think the bigger issue is with the plane. Does he needs to be renting
> the
> plane or letting the customer bring his own to avoid "holding out" -
> requiring a Part 135 certificate for the operation...