Re: Printing error in the CAP 4?

[Roy Smith]

In article
gers.com>,
"RossCutlass" > wrote:

> Whilst preparing an IFR flight to Sudbury (Ontario) I noticed that some
> areas of the MSA 25NM altitudes are lower than the procedure turn altitudes
> for the following approaches:
> NDB Rwy 22
> VOR Rwy 04
> VOR Rwy 22
> VOR / DME Rwy 12
> LOC (BC) Rwy 04
> ILS Rwy 22
>
> I've always been taught that as soon as I was cleared to an approach I could
> descend to the MSA which would then lead me into the procedure turn altitude
> if doing a full procedure (not climb to the procedure turn!). The only
> exception to this being when vectored for a straight in approach.

The MSA altitudes are for situational awareness and emergency use only.
When you're cleared for the approach, you can descend to the minimum
altitude specified for the route segment that you're established on,
which has nothing to do with the MSA.

[RossCutlass]

As always, a license to learn.

Tx
"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> gers.com>,
> "RossCutlass" > wrote:
>
> > Whilst preparing an IFR flight to Sudbury (Ontario) I noticed that some
> > areas of the MSA 25NM altitudes are lower than the procedure turn
altitudes
> > for the following approaches:
> > NDB Rwy 22
> > VOR Rwy 04
> > VOR Rwy 22
> > VOR / DME Rwy 12
> > LOC (BC) Rwy 04
> > ILS Rwy 22
> >
> > I've always been taught that as soon as I was cleared to an approach I
could
> > descend to the MSA which would then lead me into the procedure turn
altitude
> > if doing a full procedure (not climb to the procedure turn!). The only
> > exception to this being when vectored for a straight in approach.
>
> The MSA altitudes are for situational awareness and emergency use only.
> When you're cleared for the approach, you can descend to the minimum
> altitude specified for the route segment that you're established on,
> which has nothing to do with the MSA.

[David Megginson]

Roy Smith > writes:

> The MSA altitudes are for situational awareness and emergency use only.
> When you're cleared for the approach, you can descend to the minimum
> altitude specified for the route segment that you're established on,
> which has nothing to do with the MSA.

Those are the U.S. rules. In Canada, the MSA is operational -- a
clearance to the approach automatically includes a clearance to MSA
unless stated otherwise, and the controllers expect you to know that
(just as a VFR clearance to any leg of the circuit clears you to
descend to circuit altitude).

Of course, if you're under radar coverage and being vectored, you
won't be cleared for the approach until you're about to intercept it
anyway.


All the best,


David

[David Megginson]

"RossCutlass" > writes:


[i]
> As always, a license to learn.

As I just mentioned in the previous posting, you were (mostly) correct
-- the MSA is operational in Canada. That can confuse U.S. pilots
quite a bit. Be careful with any information you get from these
groups, since most posters are American -- even though U.S. and
Canadian procedures are *mostly* identical, it's the differences (like
airspace, MSA, or VFR circuit-entry procedures) that can come and bite
you.

In some of the approaches you mentioned, such as the Sudbury NDB 22,
the PT altitude is at or below the MSA for that quadrant (even if
other quadrants have a lower MSA), so it makes sense. The ones I find
strange are the ones where the PT altitude is higher than the MSA for
the same quadrant -- for example, the Sudbury VOR 22 has an MSA of
2800 ft in the appropriate quadrants, but a PT altitude of 3500 ft.


All the best,


David

[RossCutlass]

Thanks for the clarification David, I guess I'll end up calling TC for this
one.

Where do you fly out from? I use Brampton (CNC3).

Tx.
Ross
"David Megginson" > wrote in message
...
> "RossCutlass" > writes:
>
>
>[i]
> > As always, a license to learn.
>
> As I just mentioned in the previous posting, you were (mostly) correct
> -- the MSA is operational in Canada. That can confuse U.S. pilots
> quite a bit. Be careful with any information you get from these
> groups, since most posters are American -- even though U.S. and
> Canadian procedures are *mostly* identical, it's the differences (like
> airspace, MSA, or VFR circuit-entry procedures) that can come and bite
> you.
>
> In some of the approaches you mentioned, such as the Sudbury NDB 22,
> the PT altitude is at or below the MSA for that quadrant (even if
> other quadrants have a lower MSA), so it makes sense. The ones I find
> strange are the ones where the PT altitude is higher than the MSA for
> the same quadrant -- for example, the Sudbury VOR 22 has an MSA of
> 2800 ft in the appropriate quadrants, but a PT altitude of 3500 ft.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> David