required readback on clearance

[[email protected]]

I flew to an FAA safety seminar tonight at Fullerton,CA KFUL.
Instrument communications. I was surprised at how little you need to
read back.

If your clearance is (I'm making this part up)

Cessna 87077 cleared to Bakersfield, via Riverside standard DP,
Paradise, dep Paradise on 270 radial, Victor 364, Pomona, as filed.
Expect 10,000 ten minutes after departure, contact Socal on 135.4,
squawk 4224.

What would you be required to readback?




Everything right? They said, "077 cleared Bakersfield, squawk 4334."

Surprised me.

[Tom S.]

> wrote in message
...
> I flew to an FAA safety seminar tonight at Fullerton,CA KFUL.
> Instrument communications. I was surprised at how little you need to
> read back.
>
> If your clearance is (I'm making this part up)
>
> Cessna 87077 cleared to Bakersfield, via Riverside standard DP,
> Paradise, dep Paradise on 270 radial, Victor 364, Pomona, as filed.
> Expect 10,000 ten minutes after departure, contact Socal on 135.4,
> squawk 4224.
>
> What would you be required to readback?
>
>
>
>
> Everything right? They said, "077 cleared Bakersfield, squawk 4334."
>
> Surprised me.

Me too, in that you'd be using the wrong ident.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
...
>
> I flew to an FAA safety seminar tonight at Fullerton,CA KFUL.
> Instrument communications. I was surprised at how little you need to
> read back.
>
> If your clearance is (I'm making this part up)
>
> Cessna 87077 cleared to Bakersfield, via Riverside standard DP,
> Paradise, dep Paradise on 270 radial, Victor 364, Pomona, as filed.
> Expect 10,000 ten minutes after departure, contact Socal on 135.4,
> squawk 4224.
>
> What would you be required to readback?
>

Nothing.

[John Harper]

Depends on the airport. Try that at my local airport
(PAO) and they'll tell you they want the whole
clearance read back. OTOH read back any more than
that at LAX and they'll chew you out.

John


> wrote in message
...
> I flew to an FAA safety seminar tonight at Fullerton,CA KFUL.
> Instrument communications. I was surprised at how little you need to
> read back.
>
> If your clearance is (I'm making this part up)
>
> Cessna 87077 cleared to Bakersfield, via Riverside standard DP,
> Paradise, dep Paradise on 270 radial, Victor 364, Pomona, as filed.
> Expect 10,000 ten minutes after departure, contact Socal on 135.4,
> squawk 4224.
>
> What would you be required to readback?
>
>
>
>
> Everything right? They said, "077 cleared Bakersfield, squawk 4334."
>
> Surprised me.
>

[[email protected]]

edit-- 4224

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
...
>
> That's what I'm thinking. Some ground controller (being trained in the
> tower, like Chino) is going to come right back and get in your face.
>

There may very well be facility directives that require controllers to
obtain readbacks of certain parts of an IFR clearance or instruction. But
the question posed at the beginning of this thread was very general, and
there simply is no general requirement to read anything back.

[Maule Driver]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
news:nYm8b.847>
> There may very well be facility directives that require controllers to
> obtain readbacks of certain parts of an IFR clearance or instruction. But
> the question posed at the beginning of this thread was very general, and
> there simply is no general requirement to read anything back.
>
That was informative if a bit egressive. Thanks.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Maule Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> That was informative if a bit egressive. Thanks.
>

You're welcome. What's "egressive"?

[Maule Driver]

"Steven P. McNicoll" >
> "Maule Driver" >
> >
> > That was informative if a bit egressive. Thanks.
> >
>
> You're welcome. What's "egressive"?
>
>
Sorry, I meant 'regressive'

as in, "...But the question posed at the beginning of this thread was very
general..."

[Gary L. Drescher]

"Dan Thompson" > wrote in message
m...
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
> k.net...
> >
> > "Maule Driver" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > That was informative if a bit egressive. Thanks.
> > >
> >
> > You're welcome. What's "egressive"?
>
> The opposite of "retentive"?

Heh, that's the best neologism I've seen in awhile.

--Gary

[David Megginson]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > writes:

>> If your clearance is (I'm making this part up)
>>
>> Cessna 87077 cleared to Bakersfield, via Riverside standard DP,
>> Paradise, dep Paradise on 270 radial, Victor 364, Pomona, as filed.
>> Expect 10,000 ten minutes after departure, contact Socal on 135.4,
>> squawk 4224.
>>
>> What would you be required to readback?
>>
>
> Nothing.

In Canada, you'd be required to read back the transponder code (but
nothing else, since the clearance includes a SID with no altitude
amendment). Practically, I notice that even the airliners always read
back the whole clearance -- it's much easier to work out any
misunderstandings when you're still on the ground.


All the best,


David

[Ray Andraka]

Depends on the local custom. Unless instructed not to, I would read back
everything to make sure there were no mistakes in communication. Some
busy airports, such as Boston Logan request on the ATIS that you read back
only the call sign and squawk code unless there is a question.

wrote:

> I flew to an FAA safety seminar tonight at Fullerton,CA KFUL.
> Instrument communications. I was surprised at how little you need to
> read back.
>
> If your clearance is (I'm making this part up)
>
> Cessna 87077 cleared to Bakersfield, via Riverside standard DP,
> Paradise, dep Paradise on 270 radial, Victor 364, Pomona, as filed.
> Expect 10,000 ten minutes after departure, contact Socal on 135.4,
> squawk 4224.
>
> What would you be required to readback?
>
> Everything right? They said, "077 cleared Bakersfield, squawk 4334."
>
> Surprised me.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Ray Andraka]

In the case of the clearance below:

Cezzna 077 to Bakersfield, Riverside SID, paradise 270 radial, victor 364,
Pomona , as filed. 10 Thousand after 10, 135.4, 4224, over.

Ray Andraka wrote:

> Depends on the local custom. Unless instructed not to, I would read back
> everything to make sure there were no mistakes in communication. Some
> busy airports, such as Boston Logan request on the ATIS that you read back
> only the call sign and squawk code unless there is a question.
>
> wrote:
>
> > I flew to an FAA safety seminar tonight at Fullerton,CA KFUL.
> > Instrument communications. I was surprised at how little you need to
> > read back.
> >
> > If your clearance is (I'm making this part up)
> >
> > Cessna 87077 cleared to Bakersfield, via Riverside standard DP,
> > Paradise, dep Paradise on 270 radial, Victor 364, Pomona, as filed.
> > Expect 10,000 ten minutes after departure, contact Socal on 135.4,
> > squawk 4224.
> >
> > What would you be required to readback?
> >
> > Everything right? They said, "077 cleared Bakersfield, squawk 4334."
> >
> > Surprised me.
>
> --
> --Ray Andraka, P.E.
> President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
> 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
> email
> http://www.andraka.com
>
> "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
> temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> -Benjamin Franklin, 1759

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Peter R.]

Ray Andraka ) wrote:

<snip>
> Some
> busy airports, such as Boston Logan request on the ATIS that you read back
> only the call sign and squawk code unless there is a question.

I have only been to Logan twice now, the most recent being last Monday
around 6:00pm. Neither time did the ATIS state that request.

I am not doubting you, though. Instead, I am wondering if Logan only does
this during extremely busy times, perhaps early morning?

--
Peter












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[Ray Andraka]

Could be. Every time I've flown in there (about 20 times over tha past 6 years) that
request had been on the ATIS. Most of the time my visits have been either late
morning or around 5 PM. It has been admittedly about a year since I last flew a
mission (Angel Flight) in there, so it might also have been changed.

"Peter R." wrote:

> Ray Andraka ) wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > Some
> > busy airports, such as Boston Logan request on the ATIS that you read back
> > only the call sign and squawk code unless there is a question.
>
> I have only been to Logan twice now, the most recent being last Monday
> around 6:00pm. Neither time did the ATIS state that request.
>
> I am not doubting you, though. Instead, I am wondering if Logan only does
> this during extremely busy times, perhaps early morning?
>
> --
> Peter
>
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--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Peter R.]

Ray Andraka ) wrote:

<snip>
> It has been admittedly about a year since I last flew a
> mission (Angel Flight) in there, so it might also have been changed.

That's what takes me there, too. If it weren't for AF, I would have never
thought twice about taking a C172 into Logan. :) It is quite a rush
for me at this stage of my aviation experience to be able to fly in and out
of there.

Since reading your post, though, I will be more alert about the potential
for this abbreviated read-back.

--
Peter












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