evaluating aircraft

[GE]

Guys, thanks in advance for your help on this one. My airplane was lost in
Katrina (more on that later), and I am looking at buying a quarter share of
a local plane. I am trying to get a decent idea of the valuation of the
aircraft, which is a '79 Archer II. I have run the numbers on both the
National Aircraft Appraiser Association (NAAA) through Trade-a-Plane and the
AOPA's website, Vref. The NAAA is much more thorough, allowing you to
define each avionic, specify damage history, exact times for engine and
prop. The Vref is much less comprehensive. The results are vastly different.
The NAAA values the airplane at $61K while Vref values it at $73K. I didn't
expect them to be exactly the same, but that is a huge difference. I suspect
that the true market value is somewhere in between, but where? Any ideas?

[Montblack]

("GE" wrote)
> The NAAA values the airplane at $61K while Vref values it at $73K. I
> didn't expect them to be exactly the same, but that is a huge difference.
> I suspect that the true market value is somewhere in between, but where?
> Any ideas?


Offer $58K. You'll find out in a hurry if that's the real 'true market
value' or not.

That's 20% below the high value and 5% below the low value. You're in the
ballpark.


Montblack

[Dave Butler]

GE wrote:
> Guys, thanks in advance for your help on this one. My airplane was lost in
> Katrina (more on that later), and I am looking at buying a quarter share of
> a local plane. I am trying to get a decent idea of the valuation of the
> aircraft, which is a '79 Archer II. I have run the numbers on both the
> National Aircraft Appraiser Association (NAAA) through Trade-a-Plane and the
> AOPA's website, Vref. The NAAA is much more thorough, allowing you to
> define each avionic, specify damage history, exact times for engine and
> prop. The Vref is much less comprehensive. The results are vastly different.
> The NAAA values the airplane at $61K while Vref values it at $73K. I didn't
> expect them to be exactly the same, but that is a huge difference. I suspect
> that the true market value is somewhere in between, but where? Any ideas?

(1.) If you've never been in a 4-way partnership, be warned that you need to get
4-way consensus on all major decisions, which can take time and be troublesome.
Also with that many people involved, it increases the probability that all will
not have the same objectives, like whether to minimize maintenance expense by
deferring maintenance until enough squawks build up to justify ferrying the
plane to another field where the cheap fixer lives, or fix each squawk as it
comes up, even if it means paying more to keep the plane continuously
dispatchable and squawk-free. You can probably guess how I know this. Know your
partners.

(2.) Spend ~$20 at http://www.aeroprice.com for an email evaluation. I have no
vested interest, just a happy customer.

Dave

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"GE" > wrote:

> The NAAA values the airplane at $61K while Vref values it at $73K. I didn't
> expect them to be exactly the same, but that is a huge difference. I suspect
> that the true market value is somewhere in between, but where? Any ideas?

I feel that vref is usually way too high for such aircraft. I know it pegs my
cherokee 140 at way over $50,000 and I just don't think my own airplane
is worth that much. The NAAA number looks reasonable (assuming relatively
high time engine and airframe).

--
Bob Noel
New NHL? what a joke

[Ray Andraka]

The email website evaluators can only do so much. If you need to know
the real value of the aircraft and you want it to be accurate, you
should get a live aircraft appraiser to come out and prepare an
appraisal. It'll cost a bit more than the web and email things, but it
will also give you the value of THAT airplane, not an average of all the
others that are similar in one or more ways

[Doug]

The TAP NAAA evaluator is supposed to give you an asking price in TAP.
Planes TYPICALLY sell for less than that now, as the market is soft.
Also, a valid comparision would be to compare the NUMBER of Archers in
TAP now, as compared to some time(s) ago, as this would give a TREND
(more now than yesterday means declining prices, because more are
trying to sell).

You will NEVER get a precisely accurate appraisal on ANYTHING because
each sale is different and the volume of aircraft is low, so low
liquidity. At best, you get an estimate. Most appraisals are higher
than actual sale.

Also, you might look in Ebay, under the transactions completed. Ebay
prices tend to be low, but if there are some Archers in there it does
give you some information.

Also, for partnerships, there MAY be value in the partnership itself,
above and beyond the plane. Is there a maintenance fund? If so, then
1/4 of that will become yours? So that would be included. Also, the
fact that there is an existing partners, existing maintenance procedure
and partnership paperwork is not trivial, and does contain value. And
of course you need to evaluate the quality of your partners (can they
pay their bills etc).

[Dave Butler]

Doug wrote:
<snip>

> Also, for partnerships, there MAY be value in the partnership itself,
> above and beyond the plane. Is there a maintenance fund? If so, then
> 1/4 of that will become yours? So that would be included. Also, the
> fact that there is an existing partners, existing maintenance procedure
> and partnership paperwork is not trivial, and does contain value. And
> of course you need to evaluate the quality of your partners (can they
> pay their bills etc).

A partnership can also be a value negative. The seller is restricted to a local
market, whereas if he were selling the entire plane, he would have a national or
worldwide market.

Dave

[Otis Winslow]

GE wrote:
> Guys, thanks in advance for your help on this one. My airplane was lost in
> Katrina (more on that later), and I am looking at buying a quarter share of
> a local plane. I am trying to get a decent idea of the valuation of the
> aircraft, which is a '79 Archer II. I have run the numbers on both the
> National Aircraft Appraiser Association (NAAA) through Trade-a-Plane and the
> AOPA's website, Vref. The NAAA is much more thorough, allowing you to
> define each avionic, specify damage history, exact times for engine and
> prop. The Vref is much less comprehensive. The results are vastly different.
> The NAAA values the airplane at $61K while Vref values it at $73K. I didn't
> expect them to be exactly the same, but that is a huge difference. I suspect
> that the true market value is somewhere in between, but where? Any ideas?
>
>

I've found that about halfway between what Vref and Trade a Plane show
is usually the market value.

[Aaron Coolidge]

Otis Winslow > wrote:
: I've found that about halfway between what Vref and Trade a Plane show
: is usually the market value.

My airplane is for sale at a price less than T-A-P and 15% less than
Vref with exactly zero interest from buyers.
--
Aaron C.

[Peter R.]

Aaron Coolidge > wrote:

> My airplane is for sale at a price less than T-A-P and 15% less than
> Vref with exactly zero interest from buyers.

What kind of aircraft?

--
Peter

[Montblack]

("Aaron Coolidge" wrote)
> My airplane is for sale at a price less than T-A-P and 15% less than Vref
> with exactly zero interest from buyers.


What is it? ...found it.
http://alexisparkinn.com/rogue's_gallery_a-h.htm#C
1968 Piper Cherokee 180

How much you asking for it?
Features?
TSMO?
Any other info you want to share.

It's not spam if you're asked! <g>

The floor is yours.... :-)


Montblack

[Aaron Coolidge]

Peter R. > wrote:
: Aaron Coolidge > wrote:

:> My airplane is for sale at a price less than T-A-P and 15% less than
:> Vref with exactly zero interest from buyers.

: What kind of aircraft?

Piper Cherokee 180 'D'. See http://www.psinteg.net/n9376j.html for details.

--
Aaron C.

[Dave Butler]

Aaron Coolidge wrote:

> Piper Cherokee 180 'D'. See http://www.psinteg.net/n9376j.html for details.
>

Nice job presenting your airplane. If I were a potential buyer I'd like seeing
the kind of detail you present in your web site.

Dave

[figurado]

I agree that you did a fairly good job on your website. There are a couple of factors that I would consider in the value. According to the TAP NAAA guidelines the damage incurred in 1969 would not be considered superficial but instead it would be major. The avionics may be slightly high because of the value of the autopilot. In the final analysis there are many other 180s out there for less with lower times. That fact combined with the soft market means that you may have to get down closer to $45k to generate some interest. It is a good looking plane. Good luck.

[GE]

Thanks guys for your help. We came to an agreed price that is in between the
two. It is higher than I would have paid if I was buying it outright, but
since I am only buying 1/4 of the plane, the difference is not worth
haggling over. The plane has been here, in a local partnership, for 20+
years. It has an established maintenance fund which adds value to the
partnership. My A&P is familiar with it and tells me that it's been well
maintained. The agreement that I made is contingent upon a pre-buy
inspection by my A&P.

It's not as capable as the Charger that I had, but I'll have a lot more
money in my pocket when all is said and done.

Greg (often reader, seldom poster)


"GE" > wrote in message
...
> Guys, thanks in advance for your help on this one. My airplane was lost in
> Katrina (more on that later), and I am looking at buying a quarter share
> of a local plane. I am trying to get a decent idea of the valuation of the
> aircraft, which is a '79 Archer II. I have run the numbers on both the
> National Aircraft Appraiser Association (NAAA) through Trade-a-Plane and
> the AOPA's website, Vref. The NAAA is much more thorough, allowing you to
> define each avionic, specify damage history, exact times for engine and
> prop. The Vref is much less comprehensive. The results are vastly
> different. The NAAA values the airplane at $61K while Vref values it at
> $73K. I didn't expect them to be exactly the same, but that is a huge
> difference. I suspect that the true market value is somewhere in between,
> but where? Any ideas?
>