New gun

[Big John]

New super-gun to be tested in Feb
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````

By PAMELA HESS
UPI Pentagon Correspondent

WASHINGTON, Jan. 20 (UPI) -- Next month a new high-explosive munition
will be fired in Singapore and then tested again by the U.S. Army,
heralding what may be a sea change in weaponry: a gun that can fire
240,000 rounds per minute.

That's compared to 60 rounds per minute in a standard military machine
gun.

Metal Storm Inc., a munitions company headquartered in Virginia but
with its roots in Australia, has been developing a gun that can shoot
at blistering speeds, albeit in short bursts as each barrel is
reloaded.

A Metal Storm gun of any size -- from a 9 mm hand-gun up to a machine
gun size or a grenade launcher -- has no moving parts other than the
bullets or munition inside the barrel. Rather than chambering a single
slug for each shot - very quickly in the case of machine guns -- the
bullets come pre-stacked inside the barrel and can be shot all at
once, or one at a time, as the shooter decides through the electronic
controls.

Because there are no moving parts, the weapon is less likely to jam,
and will presumably need less maintenance.

Lashing many barrels together increases the number of rounds per
second. Once fired, however, each spent barrel has to be reloaded.

Starting in 2006 the company will demonstrate its prototypes with
applicability that is especially likely to interest the U.S. military.
The weapon system can be mounted on an unmanned ground combat vehicle,
an unmanned aerial vehicle, and might be used as a defense against
rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.

Metal Storm's speed allows it to lay down a blinding wall of slugs
that can intercept and pulverize incoming enemy fire, according to
company CEO David Smith. As long as the grenade or mortar is fired
from outside a range of about 50 meters or 162.5 feet and a Doppler
radar is in use, a Metal Storm system could be an effective defense,
he told UPI.

Closer than that and there is just not time to react.

"But if you are from 50 meters and beyond, if everything can work fast
enough -- the radar -- there is enough time mathematically" to shoot
down incoming fire, Smith said.

At least 153 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq by enemy rockets and
mortars since the start of the war. Nearly 2,000 have been wounded.

The grenade launcher barrel can also carry less-than-lethal munitions,
like small bean bags, sponge grenades or smoke. On Jan. 16, the Army
awarded Metal Storm a $975,000 contract to further develop its
non-lethal rounds.

"Our so-called competition is (the) Mk19 - grenade machine gun," Smith
said. "It's enormously heavy. It takes six people to carry it into a
battlefield scene. It's not mobile.

"But the military has had this transition out of big system
warfighting into much lighter, higher firepower that can be carried
into battle by individuals or light vehicles. Our guns have no moving
parts -- so they have the same amount of fire power at significantly
reduced weight ratio."

Metal Storm technology has been under development for about a decade,
but a series of small-business innovative research contracts awarded
recently by the Department of Energy and the Army mean prototypes are
now being produced and demonstrated.

"We are to the point we can start providing prototypes. The Army is
very, very parochial in how they buy weapon systems," Smith said. "But
now we can put it into an actual environment."

The company is also studying whether it can mount a Metal Storm weapon
on a small helicopter, particularly looking at the recoil effect from
the gun.

Smith said such a system - deployable down to the squad level -- could
be useful in a place like Iraq, where it's a common tactic for
insurgents to launch a mortar and then run. By the time soldiers on
foot or in a vehicle get to the launch site, the shooters are long
gone. But a UAV quickly launched can see where the shooters run to,
and if a gun is on board, can shoot at them.

The Australian military is testing a Metal Storm gun of its own, the
Advanced Individual Combat Weapon (AICW). The AICW combines both an
assault rifle and a 40 mm grenade launcher in a single unit with a
common trigger, allowing the shooter to choose which munition he wants
to fire without having to refit his weapon. It also allows three
grenades to be fired at once, whereas one is the only option in the
current generation of weapons.

Metal Storm Inc. will demonstrate a high-explosive munition with a
10-meter (32.5 feet) or burst radius in Singapore on Feb. 6, Smith
said, and for the Army's Picatinny Arsenal and Armament Research,
Development and Engineering Center later that month.



© Copyright 2006 United Press International, Inc. All
Rights Reserved
Want to email or reprint this story? Click here for options.
advertisement
Analysis: U.N. says Ivory Coast calm

By WILLIAM M. REILLY
UPI U.N. Correspondent
1/21/2006 7:17:00 PM -0500
The United Nations says four days of violent, orchestrated,
demonstrations in Ivory Coast against the world organization and its
peacekeepers appear to ...


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choppers · Kids Murals · USB adapter · Website templates · Compare
Camcorders

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[Flyingmonk]

Metal Storm Intro
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=mhabrr

Metal Storm Pistol
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=mhabfr

Metal Storm UAV
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=mhabl4

Metal Storm Area Denial
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=mhabv8

Metal Storm Aircraft Pod
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=mhac11

Metal Storm Robotic Grenade Launcher
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=mhac76

The Monk

[kontiki]

that concept was originally conceived by Leonardo Da Vinci.

[Jim Macklin]

A standard machine gun fires 450-1200 rounds per minute, 600
rpm being a "normal" average. A minigun is a modern Gatling
multibarreled weapon and can fire 4000-6000 rpm (100 per
second) and reloads each barrel as soon as it is fired.

The rate of fire for a period of a fraction of a second is
not all that important, what is the rate of fire for a
period of 5 seconds, 10 minutes?

A shotgun firing one shell with 300 pellets in the load is
firing about 1,800,000 pellets per minute.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Big John" > wrote in message
...
| New super-gun to be tested in Feb
|
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````
|
| By PAMELA HESS
| UPI Pentagon Correspondent
|
| WASHINGTON, Jan. 20 (UPI) -- Next month a new
high-explosive munition
| will be fired in Singapore and then tested again by the
U.S. Army,
| heralding what may be a sea change in weaponry: a gun that
can fire
| 240,000 rounds per minute.
|
| That's compared to 60 rounds per minute in a standard
military machine
| gun.
|
| Metal Storm Inc., a munitions company headquartered in
Virginia but
| with its roots in Australia, has been developing a gun
that can shoot
| at blistering speeds, albeit in short bursts as each
barrel is
| reloaded.
|
| A Metal Storm gun of any size -- from a 9 mm hand-gun up
to a machine
| gun size or a grenade launcher -- has no moving parts
other than the
| bullets or munition inside the barrel. Rather than
chambering a single
| slug for each shot - very quickly in the case of machine
guns -- the
| bullets come pre-stacked inside the barrel and can be shot
all at
| once, or one at a time, as the shooter decides through the
electronic
| controls.
|
| Because there are no moving parts, the weapon is less
likely to jam,
| and will presumably need less maintenance.
|
| Lashing many barrels together increases the number of
rounds per
| second. Once fired, however, each spent barrel has to be
reloaded.
|
| Starting in 2006 the company will demonstrate its
prototypes with
| applicability that is especially likely to interest the
U.S. military.
| The weapon system can be mounted on an unmanned ground
combat vehicle,
| an unmanned aerial vehicle, and might be used as a defense
against
| rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.
|
| Metal Storm's speed allows it to lay down a blinding wall
of slugs
| that can intercept and pulverize incoming enemy fire,
according to
| company CEO David Smith. As long as the grenade or mortar
is fired
| from outside a range of about 50 meters or 162.5 feet and
a Doppler
| radar is in use, a Metal Storm system could be an
effective defense,
| he told UPI.
|
| Closer than that and there is just not time to react.
|
| "But if you are from 50 meters and beyond, if everything
can work fast
| enough -- the radar -- there is enough time
mathematically" to shoot
| down incoming fire, Smith said.
|
| At least 153 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq by enemy
rockets and
| mortars since the start of the war. Nearly 2,000 have been
wounded.
|
| The grenade launcher barrel can also carry
less-than-lethal munitions,
| like small bean bags, sponge grenades or smoke. On Jan.
16, the Army
| awarded Metal Storm a $975,000 contract to further develop
its
| non-lethal rounds.
|
| "Our so-called competition is (the) Mk19 - grenade machine
gun," Smith
| said. "It's enormously heavy. It takes six people to carry
it into a
| battlefield scene. It's not mobile.
|
| "But the military has had this transition out of big
system
| warfighting into much lighter, higher firepower that can
be carried
| into battle by individuals or light vehicles. Our guns
have no moving
| parts -- so they have the same amount of fire power at
significantly
| reduced weight ratio."
|
| Metal Storm technology has been under development for
about a decade,
| but a series of small-business innovative research
contracts awarded
| recently by the Department of Energy and the Army mean
prototypes are
| now being produced and demonstrated.
|
| "We are to the point we can start providing prototypes.
The Army is
| very, very parochial in how they buy weapon systems,"
Smith said. "But
| now we can put it into an actual environment."
|
| The company is also studying whether it can mount a Metal
Storm weapon
| on a small helicopter, particularly looking at the recoil
effect from
| the gun.
|
| Smith said such a system - deployable down to the squad
level -- could
| be useful in a place like Iraq, where it's a common tactic
for
| insurgents to launch a mortar and then run. By the time
soldiers on
| foot or in a vehicle get to the launch site, the shooters
are long
| gone. But a UAV quickly launched can see where the
shooters run to,
| and if a gun is on board, can shoot at them.
|
| The Australian military is testing a Metal Storm gun of
its own, the
| Advanced Individual Combat Weapon (AICW). The AICW
combines both an
| assault rifle and a 40 mm grenade launcher in a single
unit with a
| common trigger, allowing the shooter to choose which
munition he wants
| to fire without having to refit his weapon. It also allows
three
| grenades to be fired at once, whereas one is the only
option in the
| current generation of weapons.
|
| Metal Storm Inc. will demonstrate a high-explosive
munition with a
| 10-meter (32.5 feet) or burst radius in Singapore on Feb.
6, Smith
| said, and for the Army's Picatinny Arsenal and Armament
Research,
| Development and Engineering Center later that month.
|
|
|
| © Copyright 2006 United Press International, Inc. All
| Rights Reserved
| Want to email or reprint this story? Click here for
options.
| advertisement
| Analysis: U.N. says Ivory Coast calm
|
| By WILLIAM M. REILLY
| UPI U.N. Correspondent
| 1/21/2006 7:17:00 PM -0500
| The United Nations says four days of violent,
orchestrated,
| demonstrations in Ivory Coast against the world
organization and its
| peacekeepers appear to ...
|
|
| advertisement
|
| Advertising Links
| texas holdem poker apparel · west coast choppers · orange
county
| choppers · Kids Murals · USB adapter · Website templates ·
Compare
| Camcorders
|
| © Copyright 2006 United Press International, Inc. All
Rights Reserved
|

[g n p]

And this relates to recreational flying how??








"Big John" > wrote in message
...
>
> New super-gun to be tested in Feb
> `````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````
>
> By PAMELA HESS
> UPI Pentagon Correspondent
>
> WASHINGTON, Jan. 20 (UPI) -- Next month a new high-explosive munition
> will be fired in Singapore and then tested again by the U.S. Army,
> heralding what may be a sea change in weaponry: a gun that can fire
> 240,000 rounds per minute.
.................................................. ........................................

[Jim Macklin]

For the homebuilt P47 replica???



--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"g n p" > wrote in message
news:1138017785.992067@athnrd02...
| And this relates to recreational flying how??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| "Big John" > wrote in message
| ...
| >
| > New super-gun to be tested in Feb
| >
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````
| >
| > By PAMELA HESS
| > UPI Pentagon Correspondent
| >
| > WASHINGTON, Jan. 20 (UPI) -- Next month a new
high-explosive munition
| > will be fired in Singapore and then tested again by the
U.S. Army,
| > heralding what may be a sea change in weaponry: a gun
that can fire
| > 240,000 rounds per minute.
|
.................................................. ........................................
|
|

[Stubby]

The chain gun on an A-10 Thunderbolt (aka Warthog) files about 3900
rounds per minute. Another way to say it: $24,375 per second of
depleted uranium rounds. But don't hold the trigger for more than 18
seconds because the barrel will melt.


Big John wrote:
> New super-gun to be tested in Feb
> `````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````
>
> By PAMELA HESS
> UPI Pentagon Correspondent
>
> WASHINGTON, Jan. 20 (UPI) -- Next month a new high-explosive munition
> will be fired in Singapore and then tested again by the U.S. Army,
> heralding what may be a sea change in weaponry: a gun that can fire
> 240,000 rounds per minute.
>
> That's compared to 60 rounds per minute in a standard military machine
> gun.
>
> Metal Storm Inc., a munitions company headquartered in Virginia but
> with its roots in Australia, has been developing a gun that can shoot
> at blistering speeds, albeit in short bursts as each barrel is
> reloaded.
>
> A Metal Storm gun of any size -- from a 9 mm hand-gun up to a machine
> gun size or a grenade launcher -- has no moving parts other than the
> bullets or munition inside the barrel. Rather than chambering a single
> slug for each shot - very quickly in the case of machine guns -- the
> bullets come pre-stacked inside the barrel and can be shot all at
> once, or one at a time, as the shooter decides through the electronic
> controls.
>
> Because there are no moving parts, the weapon is less likely to jam,
> and will presumably need less maintenance.
>
> Lashing many barrels together increases the number of rounds per
> second. Once fired, however, each spent barrel has to be reloaded.
>
> Starting in 2006 the company will demonstrate its prototypes with
> applicability that is especially likely to interest the U.S. military.
> The weapon system can be mounted on an unmanned ground combat vehicle,
> an unmanned aerial vehicle, and might be used as a defense against
> rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.
>
> Metal Storm's speed allows it to lay down a blinding wall of slugs
> that can intercept and pulverize incoming enemy fire, according to
> company CEO David Smith. As long as the grenade or mortar is fired
> from outside a range of about 50 meters or 162.5 feet and a Doppler
> radar is in use, a Metal Storm system could be an effective defense,
> he told UPI.
>
> Closer than that and there is just not time to react.
>
> "But if you are from 50 meters and beyond, if everything can work fast
> enough -- the radar -- there is enough time mathematically" to shoot
> down incoming fire, Smith said.
>
> At least 153 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq by enemy rockets and
> mortars since the start of the war. Nearly 2,000 have been wounded.
>
> The grenade launcher barrel can also carry less-than-lethal munitions,
> like small bean bags, sponge grenades or smoke. On Jan. 16, the Army
> awarded Metal Storm a $975,000 contract to further develop its
> non-lethal rounds.
>
> "Our so-called competition is (the) Mk19 - grenade machine gun," Smith
> said. "It's enormously heavy. It takes six people to carry it into a
> battlefield scene. It's not mobile.
>
> "But the military has had this transition out of big system
> warfighting into much lighter, higher firepower that can be carried
> into battle by individuals or light vehicles. Our guns have no moving
> parts -- so they have the same amount of fire power at significantly
> reduced weight ratio."
>
> Metal Storm technology has been under development for about a decade,
> but a series of small-business innovative research contracts awarded
> recently by the Department of Energy and the Army mean prototypes are
> now being produced and demonstrated.
>
> "We are to the point we can start providing prototypes. The Army is
> very, very parochial in how they buy weapon systems," Smith said. "But
> now we can put it into an actual environment."
>
> The company is also studying whether it can mount a Metal Storm weapon
> on a small helicopter, particularly looking at the recoil effect from
> the gun.
>
> Smith said such a system - deployable down to the squad level -- could
> be useful in a place like Iraq, where it's a common tactic for
> insurgents to launch a mortar and then run. By the time soldiers on
> foot or in a vehicle get to the launch site, the shooters are long
> gone. But a UAV quickly launched can see where the shooters run to,
> and if a gun is on board, can shoot at them.
>
> The Australian military is testing a Metal Storm gun of its own, the
> Advanced Individual Combat Weapon (AICW). The AICW combines both an
> assault rifle and a 40 mm grenade launcher in a single unit with a
> common trigger, allowing the shooter to choose which munition he wants
> to fire without having to refit his weapon. It also allows three
> grenades to be fired at once, whereas one is the only option in the
> current generation of weapons.
>
> Metal Storm Inc. will demonstrate a high-explosive munition with a
> 10-meter (32.5 feet) or burst radius in Singapore on Feb. 6, Smith
> said, and for the Army's Picatinny Arsenal and Armament Research,
> Development and Engineering Center later that month.
>
>
>
> © Copyright 2006 United Press International, Inc. All
> Rights Reserved
> Want to email or reprint this story? Click here for options.
> advertisement
> Analysis: U.N. says Ivory Coast calm
>
> By WILLIAM M. REILLY
> UPI U.N. Correspondent
> 1/21/2006 7:17:00 PM -0500
> The United Nations says four days of violent, orchestrated,
> demonstrations in Ivory Coast against the world organization and its
> peacekeepers appear to ...
>
>
> advertisement
>
> Advertising Links
> texas holdem poker apparel · west coast choppers · orange county
> choppers · Kids Murals · USB adapter · Website templates · Compare
> Camcorders
>
> © Copyright 2006 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved
>

[Flyingmonk]

Jim Macklin wrote:
>A standard machine gun fires 450-1200 rounds per minute, 600
>rpm being a "normal" average. A minigun is a modern Gatling
>multibarreled weapon and can fire 4000-6000 rpm (100 per
>second) and reloads each barrel as soon as it is fired.

>The rate of fire for a period of a fraction of a second is
>not all that important, what is the rate of fire for a
>period of 5 seconds, 10 minutes?

>A shotgun firing one shell with 300 pellets in the load is
>firing about 1,800,000 pellets per minute.

>--

Exactly what I was thinking. It is as good as a shotgun huh?

The Monk

[Jim Macklin]

It is a time function, shorter time increases rates. A true
rapid fire weapon, such as the robot Phalanx cannon used by
the Navy to protect the ship, works very well as a wall of
iron. The Claymore mine puts out a wall of steel, too.

This "new" gun sounds like a Roman candle that shoots lead.

BTW, California has recently banned 50 caliber rifles.
Barrett has a new .416 Barrett, probably based on the 50 BMG
case, gee I want one.

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| >A standard machine gun fires 450-1200 rounds per minute,
600
| >rpm being a "normal" average. A minigun is a modern
Gatling
| >multibarreled weapon and can fire 4000-6000 rpm (100 per
| >second) and reloads each barrel as soon as it is fired.
|
| >The rate of fire for a period of a fraction of a second
is
| >not all that important, what is the rate of fire for a
| >period of 5 seconds, 10 minutes?
|
| >A shotgun firing one shell with 300 pellets in the load
is
| >firing about 1,800,000 pellets per minute.
|
| >--
|
| Exactly what I was thinking. It is as good as a shotgun
huh?
|
| The Monk
|

[Big John]

g n p (Gross National Product?)

The weapons (30cal, 50cal, 20mm, 2.75" FFAR, 5" HVAR, MB-1) I used
when flying Fighters, all required tracking of the target. This
system, as described, would let you sweep through the target (without
tracking) and decimate it in one short burst.

It is possible in the future that GA could be tasked to defend the US
and a light weight gun of this type would make up for lack of GA pilot
training.

In any event, I thought it was an interesting technical article that
GA pilots would be interested in (something different than the $100
hamburger).

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:03:08 +0200, "g n p" >
wrote:

>And this relates to recreational flying how??
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Big John" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> New super-gun to be tested in Feb
>> `````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````
>>
>> By PAMELA HESS
>> UPI Pentagon Correspondent
>>
>> WASHINGTON, Jan. 20 (UPI) -- Next month a new high-explosive munition
>> will be fired in Singapore and then tested again by the U.S. Army,
>> heralding what may be a sea change in weaponry: a gun that can fire
>> 240,000 rounds per minute.
>.................................................. .......................................
>

[Big John]

OOPS

Had to build a new computer and when operational didn't see the
original post on this group so resent. Please erase the duplicate
posting :o(

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 00:12:51 -0600, Big John >
wrote:

>New super-gun to be tested in Feb
>`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````
>
>By PAMELA HESS
>UPI Pentagon Correspondent
>
>WASHINGTON, Jan. 20 (UPI) -- Next month a new high-explosive munition
>will be fired in Singapore and then tested again by the U.S. Army,
>heralding what may be a sea change in weaponry: a gun that can fire
>240,000 rounds per minute.
>
>That's compared to 60 rounds per minute in a standard military machine
>gun.
>
>Metal Storm Inc., a munitions company headquartered in Virginia but
>with its roots in Australia, has been developing a gun that can shoot
>at blistering speeds, albeit in short bursts as each barrel is
>reloaded.
>
>A Metal Storm gun of any size -- from a 9 mm hand-gun up to a machine
>gun size or a grenade launcher -- has no moving parts other than the
>bullets or munition inside the barrel. Rather than chambering a single
>slug for each shot - very quickly in the case of machine guns -- the
>bullets come pre-stacked inside the barrel and can be shot all at
>once, or one at a time, as the shooter decides through the electronic
>controls.
>
>Because there are no moving parts, the weapon is less likely to jam,
>and will presumably need less maintenance.
>
>Lashing many barrels together increases the number of rounds per
>second. Once fired, however, each spent barrel has to be reloaded.
>
>Starting in 2006 the company will demonstrate its prototypes with
>applicability that is especially likely to interest the U.S. military.
>The weapon system can be mounted on an unmanned ground combat vehicle,
>an unmanned aerial vehicle, and might be used as a defense against
>rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.
>
>Metal Storm's speed allows it to lay down a blinding wall of slugs
>that can intercept and pulverize incoming enemy fire, according to
>company CEO David Smith. As long as the grenade or mortar is fired
>from outside a range of about 50 meters or 162.5 feet and a Doppler
>radar is in use, a Metal Storm system could be an effective defense,
>he told UPI.
>
>Closer than that and there is just not time to react.
>
>"But if you are from 50 meters and beyond, if everything can work fast
>enough -- the radar -- there is enough time mathematically" to shoot
>down incoming fire, Smith said.
>
>At least 153 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq by enemy rockets and
>mortars since the start of the war. Nearly 2,000 have been wounded.
>
>The grenade launcher barrel can also carry less-than-lethal munitions,
>like small bean bags, sponge grenades or smoke. On Jan. 16, the Army
>awarded Metal Storm a $975,000 contract to further develop its
>non-lethal rounds.
>
>"Our so-called competition is (the) Mk19 - grenade machine gun," Smith
>said. "It's enormously heavy. It takes six people to carry it into a
>battlefield scene. It's not mobile.
>
>"But the military has had this transition out of big system
>warfighting into much lighter, higher firepower that can be carried
>into battle by individuals or light vehicles. Our guns have no moving
>parts -- so they have the same amount of fire power at significantly
>reduced weight ratio."
>
>Metal Storm technology has been under development for about a decade,
>but a series of small-business innovative research contracts awarded
>recently by the Department of Energy and the Army mean prototypes are
>now being produced and demonstrated.
>
>"We are to the point we can start providing prototypes. The Army is
>very, very parochial in how they buy weapon systems," Smith said. "But
>now we can put it into an actual environment."
>
>The company is also studying whether it can mount a Metal Storm weapon
>on a small helicopter, particularly looking at the recoil effect from
>the gun.
>
>Smith said such a system - deployable down to the squad level -- could
>be useful in a place like Iraq, where it's a common tactic for
>insurgents to launch a mortar and then run. By the time soldiers on
>foot or in a vehicle get to the launch site, the shooters are long
>gone. But a UAV quickly launched can see where the shooters run to,
>and if a gun is on board, can shoot at them.
>
>The Australian military is testing a Metal Storm gun of its own, the
>Advanced Individual Combat Weapon (AICW). The AICW combines both an
>assault rifle and a 40 mm grenade launcher in a single unit with a
>common trigger, allowing the shooter to choose which munition he wants
>to fire without having to refit his weapon. It also allows three
>grenades to be fired at once, whereas one is the only option in the
>current generation of weapons.
>
>Metal Storm Inc. will demonstrate a high-explosive munition with a
>10-meter (32.5 feet) or burst radius in Singapore on Feb. 6, Smith
>said, and for the Army's Picatinny Arsenal and Armament Research,
>Development and Engineering Center later that month.
>
>
>
> © Copyright 2006 United Press International, Inc. All
>Rights Reserved
>Want to email or reprint this story? Click here for options.
>advertisement
>Analysis: U.N. says Ivory Coast calm
>
>By WILLIAM M. REILLY
>UPI U.N. Correspondent
>1/21/2006 7:17:00 PM -0500
>The United Nations says four days of violent, orchestrated,
>demonstrations in Ivory Coast against the world organization and its
>peacekeepers appear to ...
>
>
>advertisement
>
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>© Copyright 2006 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved

[[email protected]]

>>>The chain gun on an A-10 Thunderbolt (aka Warthog) files about 3900
rounds per minute. Another way to say it: $24,375 per second of
depleted uranium rounds. But don't hold the trigger for more than 18
seconds because the barrel will melt.<<<

A-10's don't have a "chain gun"... maybe you're thinking of the AH-64
Apache? The A-10's magazine would empty long before the barrels
(plural) "melted". The GAU-8's biggest limitation besides ammo supply
is that the recoil slows the A-10 quickly, and gasses from the muzzle
get sucked into the engines while firing. Besides the high cost of DU
ammo, there's an environmetal issue with dust created by projectile
impact. Scary stuff.

[George Patterson]

Big John wrote:

> New super-gun to be tested in Feb

Wonder what the barrel life is. Seems to me that you wouldn't reload this thing,
you'd replace it.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[George Patterson]

Big John wrote:

> It is possible in the future that GA could be tasked to defend the US
> and a light weight gun of this type would make up for lack of GA pilot
> training.

I think the recoil would make it impossible to use in light aircraft.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Morgans]

"Stubby" > wrote in message
. ..
> The chain gun on an A-10 Thunderbolt (aka Warthog) files about 3900 rounds
> per minute. Another way to say it: $24,375 per second of depleted
> uranium rounds. But don't hold the trigger for more than 18 seconds
> because the barrel will melt.

They don't use depleted uranium, anymore. Tungsten is now the ammo of
choice.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

> wrote in message

> The GAU-8's biggest limitation besides ammo supply
> is that the recoil slows the A-10 quickly,

A myth, according to a A-10 driver here, a while back.

> and gasses from the muzzle get sucked into the engines while firing.

Not true. The engines are mounted where they are, to prevent that.

> Besides the high cost of DU ammo, there's an environmetal issue with dust
> created by > projectile impact. Scary stuff.

Which is why they now use tungsten projectiles.
--
Jim in NC

[Flyingmonk]

You wanna see GA with fire power? I bet there's some recoil there...

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=mhsim0
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=mhsiyo

Take out the radio control pilot and put me in that thing. LOL

The Monk

[George Patterson]

Flyingmonk wrote:
> You wanna see GA with fire power? I bet there's some recoil there...

There's no recoil from a rocket launch.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Stubby]

Morgans wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
>
>> The GAU-8's biggest limitation besides ammo supply
>> is that the recoil slows the A-10 quickly,
>
>
> A myth, according to a A-10 driver here, a while back.
>
>> and gasses from the muzzle get sucked into the engines while firing.
>
>
> Not true. The engines are mounted where they are, to prevent that.
>
>> Besides the high cost of DU ammo, there's an environmetal issue with
>> dust created by > projectile impact. Scary stuff.
>
>
> Which is why they now use tungsten projectiles.

I really don't understand the "environmental issue." Those rounds are
meant to melt through armor and shatter into pieces which bounce around
inside the tank and function as an anti-personnel weapon. That's fairly
high on the "toxicity" scale compared to DU which is approximately as
radioactive as common rock.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> You wanna see GA with fire power? I bet there's some recoil there...
>

How much would you like to bet?

[Montblack]

("Big John" wrote)
> New super-gun to be tested in Feb


Can you crosspost to multiple newsgroups, instead of starting separate
threads in separate newsgroups?

Many (most?) newsreaders will cancel 'read posts' from one newsgroup to
another.

Thanks

Gun:
Didn't a couple of Mormons, out in Utah back in the late 80's, have a gun
that fired .22 rounds? It was suppose to be able to shoot down a telephone
pole and slice through a moving car - like a knife through warm butter. It
was lightweight and inexpensive because it used .22 shells. Something like
6,000 round per minute. 100/sec.

The story was featured in our daily paper - there might have been a Twin
Cities connection.


Montblack

[Newps]

>
> > wrote in message
>
>> The GAU-8's biggest limitation besides ammo supply
>> is that the recoil slows the A-10 quickly,

The recoil will do no such thing.

[Morgans]

"Stubby" > wrote
>
> I really don't understand the "environmental issue." Those rounds are
> meant to melt through armor and shatter into pieces which bounce around
> inside the tank and function as an anti-personnel weapon. That's fairly
> high on the "toxicity" scale compared to DU which is approximately as
> radioactive as common rock.

Many (most) of the rounds miss the tank, and are in the surrounding
environment, and in villages, and such.
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

> and gasses from the muzzle get sucked into the engines while firing.

Not true. The engines are mounted where they are, to prevent that.<<<

IIRC from the A-10 show on Military Channel, the engines are mounted
where they are to give the plane better survivability against AAA. That
dictated placement of the engines. One could be blown off the airframe
and the plane could still fly. The trail of spent gas from the gun was
fairly obvious in the airborne footage of the gun firing IIRC. Also
mentioned in the narration. Also mentioned was the recoil slowing the
aircraft. If this is not accurate then the Military Channel has poor
sources.

[G Farris]

In article >,
says...

>
>That's compared to 60 rounds per minute in a standard military machine
>gun.
>

BANG...one thousand...BANG...one thousand...BANG...one thou. . . . .

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"Morgans" > writes:
> > The GAU-8's biggest limitation besides ammo supply
> > is that the recoil slows the A-10 quickly,
>
> [...] A myth, according to a A-10 driver here, a while back. [...]

A quick visit to Newton's second law indicates a roughly
2 m/s^2 ~ 6.5 ft/s^2
deceleration due to the recoil force (10000 lbf acting on 50000 lb
airplane). From a hypothetical slowish flying speed of 200 mph
(300 ft/s), it would require about **20 seconds** of fire to get
down to the A-10's ~115 mph stall speed.

Whether that's "quick" or "a myth" depends on your point of view (and
on whether I did my estimations correctly).

- FChE

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Morgans" > writes:
>> > The GAU-8's biggest limitation besides ammo supply
>> > is that the recoil slows the A-10 quickly,
>>
>> [...] A myth, according to a A-10 driver here, a while back. [...]
>
> A quick visit to Newton's second law indicates a roughly
> 2 m/s^2 ~ 6.5 ft/s^2
> deceleration due to the recoil force (10000 lbf acting on 50000 lb
> airplane). From a hypothetical slowish flying speed of 200 mph
> (300 ft/s), it would require about **20 seconds** of fire to get
> down to the A-10's ~115 mph stall speed.
>
> Whether that's "quick" or "a myth" depends on your point of view (and
> on whether I did my estimations correctly).
>
> - FChE

Did your estimation take into account that the Warthogs engines are still
producing power while they shoot?

[Flyingmonk]

George Patterson wrote:
>There's no recoil from a rocket launch.

Thank you George my brain wasn't fully angaged yet when I posted.

The Monk

[Flyingmonk]

That's alright Steven, my brain wasn't fully angaged yet when I posted.
:^)

The Monk

[Morgans]

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote

> Whether that's "quick" or "a myth" depends on your point of view (and
> on whether I did my estimations correctly).

What you failed to take into account, is that the engines keep applying
thrust, and will partially negate that issue, and that the gun is nearly
always fired while the airplane is in a rather steep descent (to get guns on
target), so there is more force to keep the airplane from slowing down.

So it appears as though it would take considerably more to slow the airplane
to stall speed, and it the guns fired much longer, they would be a molten
pile of metal, or out of ammo. Anyone remember how many seconds of ammo are
carried?

As to the engines ingesting the gun smoke, consider how much air they take
in. Massive amounts. Most of that is bypassed around the engine, so only a
little is burned. Even if some of the smoke is taken in, I doubt that it is
enough to make the engine even stutter.
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:58:57 -0600, "Montblack"
> wrote:


>Didn't a couple of Mormons, out in Utah back in the late 80's, have a gun
>that fired .22 rounds? It was suppose to be able to shoot down a telephone
>pole and slice through a moving car - like a knife through warm butter. It
>was lightweight and inexpensive because it used .22 shells. Something like
>6,000 round per minute. 100/sec

http://www.american180.com/history/index.html

check out "history" and "quad mount"

TC

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"Morgans" > writes:

> > Whether that's "quick" or "a myth" depends on your point of view (and
> > on whether I did my estimations correctly).
>
> What you failed to take into account, is that the engines keep
> applying thrust, and will partially negate that issue

Indeed, according to Wikipedia, the engine throttles are firewalled
automatically when the gun fires. What matters is the net force,
which despite the incremental oomph of the engines, appears to be able
to cause considerable braking.

> and that the gun is nearly always fired while the airplane is in a
> rather steep descent (to get guns on target), so there is more force
> to keep the airplane from slowing down. [...]

Some people confuse descent with acceleration. A mere constant-rate
descent (apprx. zero net force) does nothing to change the analysis.

- FChE

[Morgans]

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message

> Some people confuse descent with acceleration. A mere constant-rate
> descent (apprx. zero net force) does nothing to change the analysis.

You lack the ability to change real life application into a physics problem.

If you have your engines set to hold constant speed in level flight, then
push over into descent, what happens to your speed?

Case closed. Now you can use some of that acceleration into pushing against
the guns.

Everyone seems to forget that the guns on an A-10 are only used in 2 to 4
second bursts, most of the time, with the pilot constantly climbing and
diving and turning. To do otherwise while in a combat situation would
invite being shot down. Nobody in these conditions are going to be jerking
the throttle all over the place, or worrying about brief speed excursions-
from the maneuvers, or shooting the guns.
--
Jim in NC

[Jim Macklin]

Not sure, but seem to remember that the gun is set to do not
more than 50 round bursts, 1 second and they have about 20
bursts (1100 rounds)



"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote
|
| > Whether that's "quick" or "a myth" depends on your point
of view (and
| > on whether I did my estimations correctly).
|
| What you failed to take into account, is that the engines
keep applying
| thrust, and will partially negate that issue, and that the
gun is nearly
| always fired while the airplane is in a rather steep
descent (to get guns on
| target), so there is more force to keep the airplane from
slowing down.
|
| So it appears as though it would take considerably more to
slow the airplane
| to stall speed, and it the guns fired much longer, they
would be a molten
| pile of metal, or out of ammo. Anyone remember how many
seconds of ammo are
| carried?
|
| As to the engines ingesting the gun smoke, consider how
much air they take
| in. Massive amounts. Most of that is bypassed around the
engine, so only a
| little is burned. Even if some of the smoke is taken in,
I doubt that it is
| enough to make the engine even stutter.
| --
| Jim in NC
|

[Montblack]

wrote)
>
> http://www.american180.com/history/index.html
>
> check out "history" and "quad mount"


Yup. That's it. Thanks.

At 6,000 rounds/min and 275 rounds/drums x 4 drums = 1,100 rounds

1,200 rounds would be 12 seconds of firepower.

(Necessary Aviation Content)
OMG!!! Someone mounted TWO of these on an ultralight!

http://www.american180.com/history/index.html
(From the link - Quad Mount)

"ILARCO built a few quad-mounted American 180s. These "Quad 22s" fired from
a tripod at a truely devastating rate of over 6000+ rounds per minute.

An American 180 salesman from the New England area mounted a pair of quad
American 180s on a Falcon ultralight airplane. The "Quad 22s" were placed in
removable brackets of the left and right sides of the fuselage. The salesman
was hoping for sales to third world governments.

The individual guns could be fired in any combination. They could be fired
one at a time, or one on the left and one of the right, or all eight at
once. Using 275 round drums and firing the guns singly produced eighty-eight
seconds of fire.

In most cases, all eight American 180s would be fired at once to minimize
return fire from the ground. This translates into over 12,000+ rounds per
minute!"


Montblack
(.....running AND ducking!)

[Jim Carriere]

Montblack wrote:
> An American 180 salesman from the New England area mounted a pair of
> quad American 180s on a Falcon ultralight airplane. The "Quad 22s" were
> placed in removable brackets of the left and right sides of the
> fuselage. The salesman was hoping for sales to third world governments.

Hmm, I think I saw this on Knight Rider or The A-Team once (lol).

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"Morgans" wrote:

> > Some people confuse descent with acceleration. A mere constant-rate
> > descent (apprx. zero net force) does nothing to change the analysis.
>
> You lack the ability to change real life application into a physics
> problem.

I'm not sure you are in a position to criticize.

> If you have your engines set to hold constant speed in level flight,
> then push over into descent, what happens to your speed?

There is a brief acceleration until the airplane reaches its new trim
speed, then (roughly, omitting other factors such as greater thrust at
lower altitudes, ...) it will hold that new higher speed.

> Case closed. Now you can use some of that acceleration into pushing
> against the guns.

But that acceleration is brief! They won't fire the gun during a
pushover maneuver that is changing aircraft pitch (= aim point).

What I hope you mean that the accumulated extra speed (= momentum)
gives it a greater margin. Indeed, according to one source, the
maximum speed for the A10 is in the 400kt range. On the other hand,
pulling out of such a dive, after firing at the ground (and thus not
too high to start with), would be quite a feat. I'm sure one could
cook up some simple equations to wow oneself with the necessary G
load.

> Everyone seems to forget that the guns on an A-10 are only used in 2
> to 4 second bursts [...]

Only "seems".

- FChE

[George Patterson]

Montblack wrote:

> Yup. That's it. Thanks.

So. It's a .22 caliber Lewis gun.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[[email protected]]

>>>Not sure, but seem to remember that the gun is set to do not
more than 50 round bursts, 1 second and they have about 20
bursts (1100 rounds)<<<

That sounds about right, although I think it might be a 2 second burst.
Either way it's a bad day if you're the guy in the tank being chewed up
and spit out...

I've read the USAF intends to replace the A-10 (amongst others) with
the JSF (F-35A). With only a 20mm internal cannon is the anti-armor job
going to be done with missiles exclusively?

[Jack]

wrote:

> The trail of spent gas from the gun was
> fairly obvious in the airborne footage of the gun firing IIRC. Also
> mentioned in the narration. Also mentioned was the recoil slowing the
> aircraft. If this is not accurate then the Military Channel has poor
> sources.

This is from the early development stage of the A-10.


Jack

[The Visitor]

Please, lets see your calculations on this problem.

Morgans wrote:

>
> "Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
>
>> Some people confuse descent with acceleration. A mere constant-rate
>> descent (apprx. zero net force) does nothing to change the analysis.
>
>
> You lack the ability to change real life application into a physics
> problem.
>
> If you have your engines set to hold constant speed in level flight,
> then push over into descent, what happens to your speed?
>
> Case closed. Now you can use some of that acceleration into pushing
> against the guns.
>
> Everyone seems to forget that the guns on an A-10 are only used in 2 to
> 4 second bursts, most of the time, with the pilot constantly climbing
> and diving and turning. To do otherwise while in a combat situation
> would invite being shot down. Nobody in these conditions are going to
> be jerking the throttle all over the place, or worrying about brief
> speed excursions- from the maneuvers, or shooting the guns.