The smell of a decomposing mouse somewhere forward of the firewall

[Peter R.]

Man, this aircraft ownership thing really does present its share of tests.

The latest issue I am dealing with is a decomposing mouse somewhere forward
of the firewall. My aircraft is a Bonanza V35 and I am flying at least
twice a week, but frequency (or lack thereof) of flight appears to be
unrelated to the probability of a mouse choosing the aircraft for its new
home.

This story began about a month ago as I was departing IFR out of Syracuse,
NY (Northeast US) in low ceilings and snow. During takeoff, small specks
that glistened in the light started blowing out of the windshield
defroster. I thought this may have been snow pulled in from the outside
and was struck by the beauty of the sight, but seconds later reality came
crashing back when large chunks of insulation joined the warm air blowing
out of the defroster and landing all over the glareshield, seats, and
pilot.

Very friggin' nice, I thought as I reached down and closed off all forced
air ducts while hand-flying the climb in IMC. Now I am sitting inside a
cloud of glass while flying through a cloud of snow, getting cold and
breathing these microscopic fragments of glass.

Earlier that previous week I had some avionics work done so when I landed
after this flight, I called the shop and asked if they could have
accidentally dropped any of the aircraft insulation into the ducts. The
avionics tech assured me that this didn't happen and suggested that a mouse
may have attempted to build a nest with insulation inside one of the ducts.
A mouse, you say? I felt another unique aircraft ownership experience
upon me.

When I returned home later that week, I immediately went shopping for some
D-CON mouse poison baits and placed them around the t-hangar. Oops, in
hindsight that was a poor idea. Mouse poison is not as fast acting as a
snap-trap and any mouse who eats the poison will most likely have time to
check into the aircraft hotel before expiring. A fitting Eff-You to the
human who placed the traps, no doubt.

Flash forward to last Thursday night. I returned from my weekly commute,
pushed the aircraft into the t-hangar, plugged in the Tanis heater and
covered the cowling with an insulated cover. I was about to slide on the
insulated prop covers when I suddenly caught a lung-full of rotting mouse
smell, emanating from somewhere inside the hot engine compartment. Whoa...
who would have guessed that such as little creature could produce such a
large odor?

The next day I contacted my mechanic and we both spent an hour or so poking
and prodding the engine compartment and various stack? hoses with beams of
light and mirrors-on-a-stick looking for the critter. No joy.

Given that the smell was not making its way into the cockpit and that the
dead carcass was obviously not anywhere that would interfere with engine
operation (or catch on fire) we agreed that he would do a more thorough
search and recovery during the annual that was coming up in a few weeks.

After landing today I noted that the smell was still just as putrid as it
was last Thursday night. How long does it take for a mouse body to
decompose past the point of the nasty odor?


--
Peter

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Peter R." > wrote:
> After landing today I noted that the smell was still just as putrid as it
> was last Thursday night. How long does it take for a mouse body to
> decompose past the point of the nasty odor?


I believe the smell will subside in 2-3 weeks, though I could never wait
that long. The stench from a single dead mouse can fill an entire
T-hangar without a problem.

I know that there are transient mice in my T-hangar, but thankfully not
the aircraft. I don't like D-Con pellets, but I did buy the bait block
poison. I've used snap traps successfully in my home, but in the hangar
it seems that the mice have figured out how to either escape from them
or avoid setting them off. I've put traps around the bait blocks, and
the baits will get eaten but the traps will never be set off.

I would be interested in any creative practical solutions, but I suspect
that there are no easy answers. The bottom line is that mice are a huge
pain, and are almost impossible to eliminate, especially in a T-hangar.



JKG

[Dave Stadt]

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Peter R." > wrote:
>> After landing today I noted that the smell was still just as putrid as it
>> was last Thursday night. How long does it take for a mouse body to
>> decompose past the point of the nasty odor?
>
>
> I believe the smell will subside in 2-3 weeks, though I could never wait
> that long. The stench from a single dead mouse can fill an entire
> T-hangar without a problem.
>
> I know that there are transient mice in my T-hangar, but thankfully not
> the aircraft. I don't like D-Con pellets, but I did buy the bait block
> poison. I've used snap traps successfully in my home, but in the hangar
> it seems that the mice have figured out how to either escape from them
> or avoid setting them off. I've put traps around the bait blocks, and
> the baits will get eaten but the traps will never be set off.
>
> I would be interested in any creative practical solutions, but I suspect
> that there are no easy answers. The bottom line is that mice are a huge
> pain, and are almost impossible to eliminate, especially in a T-hangar.
>
>
>
> JKG

I use sticky tent shaped traps and place them along the walls. Seems mice
like to travel along walls. Never had a mouse last long enough to cause a
problem.

[Jim Burns]

I know several owners that place those sticky pads completely around all
three tires of their planes. The theory being that the only way the mouse
can get inside is to crawl up the tire. They've caught a few that way. Plus
they say that because there is no bait, there is nothing to draw the mice
into the hanger other than curiosity or heat.

Jim

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Man, this aircraft ownership thing really does present its share of tests.
>
> The latest issue I am dealing with is a decomposing mouse somewhere
forward
> of the firewall. My aircraft is a Bonanza V35 and I am flying at least
> twice a week, but frequency (or lack thereof) of flight appears to be
> unrelated to the probability of a mouse choosing the aircraft for its new
> home.
>
> This story began about a month ago as I was departing IFR out of Syracuse,
> NY (Northeast US) in low ceilings and snow. During takeoff, small specks
> that glistened in the light started blowing out of the windshield
> defroster. I thought this may have been snow pulled in from the outside
> and was struck by the beauty of the sight, but seconds later reality came
> crashing back when large chunks of insulation joined the warm air blowing
> out of the defroster and landing all over the glareshield, seats, and
> pilot.
>
> Very friggin' nice, I thought as I reached down and closed off all forced
> air ducts while hand-flying the climb in IMC. Now I am sitting inside a
> cloud of glass while flying through a cloud of snow, getting cold and
> breathing these microscopic fragments of glass.
>
> Earlier that previous week I had some avionics work done so when I landed
> after this flight, I called the shop and asked if they could have
> accidentally dropped any of the aircraft insulation into the ducts. The
> avionics tech assured me that this didn't happen and suggested that a
mouse
> may have attempted to build a nest with insulation inside one of the
ducts.
> A mouse, you say? I felt another unique aircraft ownership experience
> upon me.
>
> When I returned home later that week, I immediately went shopping for some
> D-CON mouse poison baits and placed them around the t-hangar. Oops, in
> hindsight that was a poor idea. Mouse poison is not as fast acting as a
> snap-trap and any mouse who eats the poison will most likely have time to
> check into the aircraft hotel before expiring. A fitting Eff-You to the
> human who placed the traps, no doubt.
>
> Flash forward to last Thursday night. I returned from my weekly commute,
> pushed the aircraft into the t-hangar, plugged in the Tanis heater and
> covered the cowling with an insulated cover. I was about to slide on the
> insulated prop covers when I suddenly caught a lung-full of rotting mouse
> smell, emanating from somewhere inside the hot engine compartment.
Whoa...
> who would have guessed that such as little creature could produce such a
> large odor?
>
> The next day I contacted my mechanic and we both spent an hour or so
poking
> and prodding the engine compartment and various stack? hoses with beams of
> light and mirrors-on-a-stick looking for the critter. No joy.
>
> Given that the smell was not making its way into the cockpit and that the
> dead carcass was obviously not anywhere that would interfere with engine
> operation (or catch on fire) we agreed that he would do a more thorough
> search and recovery during the annual that was coming up in a few weeks.
>
> After landing today I noted that the smell was still just as putrid as it
> was last Thursday night. How long does it take for a mouse body to
> decompose past the point of the nasty odor?
>
>
> --
> Peter

[Montblack]

("Jonathan Goodish" wrote)
> I would be interested in any creative practical solutions, but I suspect
> that there are no easy answers. The bottom line is that mice are a huge
> pain, and are almost impossible to eliminate, especially in a T-hangar.


I've heard dryer sheets of Bounce work. Mice don't like the smell.


Montblack

[Peter R.]

Jim Burns > wrote:

> The theory being that the only way the mouse
> can get inside is to crawl up the tire.

They certainly must be creative or have strong mouse feet, for I cannot see
how a small field mouse is able to climb up the tires. The little *******s
are probably dropping onto the aircraft by parachute from the ceiling.

--
Peter

[Peter R.]

Jonathan Goodish > wrote:

> I believe the smell will subside in 2-3 weeks, though I could never wait
> that long. The stench from a single dead mouse can fill an entire
> T-hangar without a problem.

If you couldn't wait, what did you do? Pay the mechanic to look for it or
seek it out yourself?

--
Peter

[JJS]

"Peter R." > wrote in message ...
snip
>
> The next day I contacted my mechanic and we both spent an hour or so poking
> and prodding the engine compartment and various stack? hoses with beams of
> light and mirrors-on-a-stick looking for the critter. No joy.
>
snip

I'm not very familiar with Bo's, but on my Cherokee we found a mouse nest in the heat muff around the muffler once.
Take a look there if you haven't.



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[Robert M. Gary]

When I bought my Mooney I got a bill at the first annual for "rat
socks". I thought it was a jock. I guess they are cloth coverings in
the gear wells to prevent rats from climbing up into the plane. I guess
they sometimes get up there a pee. The pee rusts the insides pretty
quickly and kills the plane.

-Robert

[.Blueskies.]

"Peter R." > wrote in message ...
> Jim Burns > wrote:
>
>> The theory being that the only way the mouse
>> can get inside is to crawl up the tire.
>
> They certainly must be creative or have strong mouse feet, for I cannot see
> how a small field mouse is able to climb up the tires. The little *******s
> are probably dropping onto the aircraft by parachute from the ceiling.
>
> --
> Peter

Haven't you ever heard of flying mice? ;-)

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Peter R." > wrote:
> > The theory being that the only way the mouse
> > can get inside is to crawl up the tire.
>
> They certainly must be creative or have strong mouse feet, for I cannot see
> how a small field mouse is able to climb up the tires. The little *******s
> are probably dropping onto the aircraft by parachute from the ceiling.

Rubber would be no problem. About the only thing they can't climb is
glass, or a similar slick surface. It would be no problem for them to
climb the tire and gear.

I'm no expert on mouse behavior, but my theory with the bait blocks is
that the mice will come to the hangar for the bait and NOT to explore my
aircraft. I believe that they will leave the hangar to look for water
after they consume the bait. The mice will enter the hangar even if you
don't have bait, as the hangar provides shelter.



JKG

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Dave Stadt" > wrote:
> I use sticky tent shaped traps and place them along the walls. Seems mice
> like to travel along walls. Never had a mouse last long enough to cause a
> problem.

Mice will travel along walls. When you place snap traps, you are
supposed to place them with the activation pedal toward the wall.
However, the mice must move so fast along the walls in my hangar that
their rear legs, and not their body, most often get trapped. Sometimes
they are able to free themselves (the trap will be dragged across the
hangar, but empty) and sometimes they are able to set it off but not get
trapped (the trap will be set off but not moved). I have actually
watched a mouse, with its rear leg trapped, free itself after a couple
minutes worth of effort. I have never had a problem with the traps in
my house. I suspect that the glue traps would be more effective.

However, the bait blocks appear to be working. It took about a week for
obvious signs of feeding, but the "food source" must have been
discovered because the baits were chewed pretty well by the end of the
second week. Some of the blocks were actually missing from the hangar,
so the mice must have moved them (didn't know they could do that.) I
may set more snap traps, or glue traps, to see what happens. However,
mice are plentiful and I'm not sure that I could set enough traps to
ensure that the hangar stays mouse-free.



JKG

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Peter R." > wrote:

> Jonathan Goodish > wrote:
>
> > I believe the smell will subside in 2-3 weeks, though I could never wait
> > that long. The stench from a single dead mouse can fill an entire
> > T-hangar without a problem.
>
> If you couldn't wait, what did you do? Pay the mechanic to look for it or
> seek it out yourself?

I never had mice in my airplane (knock on wood). However, I have had
them in the walls of my house. After about a week, we couldn't stand it
any longer and I had to start cutting drywall. I must have done this a
half-dozen times before I was finally able to stop them (hopefully) from
entering the house, though I still catch them in the garage. Needless
to say, I am now fairly skilled at repairing and replacing drywall.

If you don't smell it in the cabin, I would probably de-cowl the
airplane and go searching with a flashlight and a mirror.



JKG

[Peter R.]

Jonathan Goodish > wrote:

> I never had mice in my airplane (knock on wood). However, I have had
> them in the walls of my house. After about a week, we couldn't stand it
> any longer and I had to start cutting drywall. I must have done this a
> half-dozen times before I was finally able to stop them (hopefully) from
> entering the house, though I still catch them in the garage. Needless
> to say, I am now fairly skilled at repairing and replacing drywall.

Ah, you need a couple of cats in your house. That will solve the mouse
problem. :)

One night a few years ago a mole accidentally found its way into our home.
Our two cats, which normally sleep with my wife and me, never came to our
bedroom that night. We found them in the dining room the next morning
batting around a dead mole.

If only I could find a cat that was happy to live year-round in the
t-hangar. :) That is the answer.

> If you don't smell it in the cabin, I would probably de-cowl the
> airplane and go searching with a flashlight and a mirror.

The Bonanza V35, unlike Cessna or Piper single-engine aircraft, cannot be
fully "de-cowled." Either side opens up via top-mounted hinges, but doing
so only exposes the top half of the engine. The bottom half of the cowling
is not removable, save for removable baffle louvers. Here is a picture
that gives you an idea of what I am attempting to describe:

http://www.taturbo.com/louverson.jpg

Additionally, with all of the Tornado Alley turbo mods in my aircraft's
engine, there is very little room under the non-removable cowling to
maneuver or see.

--
Peter

[Peter R.]

JJS <jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net> wrote:

> I'm not very familiar with Bo's, but on my Cherokee we found a mouse nest
> in the heat muff around the muffler once.
> Take a look there if you haven't.

Thanks. That is the area we suspect is housing the mouse. :)

--
Peter

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Peter R." > wrote:
> Ah, you need a couple of cats in your house. That will solve the mouse
> problem. :)

That's what I told my wife, but she won't go for it.

I did have a dead mouse in the hangar (on the floor) and it was very,
very obvious as soon as we opened the man door... unfortunately, a
familiar scent.



> Additionally, with all of the Tornado Alley turbo mods in my aircraft's
> engine, there is very little room under the non-removable cowling to
> maneuver or see.

By "de-cowl," I obviously mean to the extent possible on your aircraft
without drilling out any rivets. However, with your mods, it sounds
like it will be much more difficult to poke around.



JKG

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"Montblack" > wrote:

> ("Jonathan Goodish" wrote)
> > I would be interested in any creative practical solutions, but I suspect
> > that there are no easy answers. The bottom line is that mice are a huge
> > pain, and are almost impossible to eliminate, especially in a T-hangar.
>
>
> I've heard dryer sheets of Bounce work. Mice don't like the smell.
>
>
> Montblack

Moth balls are also an excellent mouse/rat repellant. Put a few inside
the wheelwells and cowling -- they won't want to come in.

I have had a few mouse problems in the past, but not recently. I did,
however have a roof rat try to take up residence in my Shop Vac one
time. It chewed its way past the exit grid and made a nest inside the
rotor. When I turned it on, all kinds of shop towel stuff blew out. I
found the newly-dead rat pushed against the remains of the exit grid and
had to extricate it with a pair of needle-nosed pliers.

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.

[Peter R.]

Jonathan Goodish > wrote:

> By "de-cowl," I obviously mean to the extent possible on your aircraft
> without drilling out any rivets.

Sorry, after reading "de-cowl," envious visions of a few Cessnas in the
maintenance hangar completely naked from the firewall forward filled my
head.


--
Peter

[Jay Honeck]

> After landing today I noted that the smell was still just as putrid as it
> was last Thursday night. How long does it take for a mouse body to
> decompose past the point of the nasty odor?

I had a mouse make his nest in the starboard exhaust pipe on my Honda
Goldwing, one winter.

He apparently died in there, and when I started up the cycle in the spring I
was greeted with all sorts of stuff shooting out of that pipe -- including
the mostly-mummified body of the stupid rodent.

How in the HELL it climbed up into that hole is still a mystery. They can
get anywhere.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
...
Montblack
>
> Moth balls are also an excellent mouse/rat repellant. Put a few inside
> the wheelwells and cowling -- they won't want to come in.

But how do you get them from out between their little moth legs.

[[email protected]]

That dead mouse is, as someone else pointed out, probably
inside the heat muff against the muffler, along with his nest, and the
next time you go flying the nest materials could catch fire and make
life too interesting. At least it would finish off the dead-mouse odor.
I used to use mothballs, until successive generations of the
little beasts got used to the smell and made their home inside my
airplane anyway. Now I use the poisonous bar bait, which works well but
might also be killing the airport cat, who helps control the mouse
population and could catch and eat poisoned mice before they're dead.
Oh well, there's never any shortage of stray cats.
I once watched a cat chase a mouse, corner it, and the
terrified rodent jumped well over two feet into the air over the cat to
escape it. They don't have to climb when they can jump like that. They
jump into our garbage cans here in the shop, those big backyard cans
which are about two feet high, and if there's not a lot of loose stuff
in the can they jump out again after filling up on scraps.
Someone needs to invent an electrocution-type trap for hangars.
I had ideas for an air-powered cannon that might have a breech trap
that would close after the mouse entered it, and an
electronically-controlled valve would shoot compressed air from our
shop compressor and blast him through the barrel (which would be
permanently installed in the shop wall) out into orbit. The airport cat
would have his house inside the landing zone.

Dan

[Marco Leon]

I just got rid of a mouse in my house after a 3-month battle. After trying
every trap available at the hardware store, I resorted using D-Con poison as
a last resort--damn the smell. I was very lucky in that the mouse decided to
use my foyer floor as a deathbed. Scared the hell out of my wife but it
allowed me to get rid of it right before it died. The poisons use an
anti-coagulant that makes them bleed internally so death is not instant.

My observations (both first-hand and through research):
- Mice can become trap-shy rendering the traps ineffective. The one in my
house got caught in a glue-trap the first day I set it but got loose. Every
subsequent trap application was ineffective for that particular mouse.
- Sealing a house is difficult and probably not feasible for a T-hangar.
- Females typically nest in preparation for birth. The smell could be
augmented by a bunch of little ones.

My only suggestion after you find the dead mouse is to keep a fresh supply
of poison around the walls of the T-hangar. Any new ones will hopefully find
them and become victim to them first before they find their way into the
airplane. The circle of glue traps around the wheels may help but unless you
have a big rodent population, the traps will probably get dirty before long
rendering them useless. I watched as the mouse ran over my "wall of glue
traps" one day so it would have to be a pretty significant "wall" around
your wheels not to mention another checklist item.

Good luck,

Marco

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> JJS <jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm not very familiar with Bo's, but on my Cherokee we found a mouse
nest
> > in the heat muff around the muffler once.
> > Take a look there if you haven't.
>
> Thanks. That is the area we suspect is housing the mouse. :)
>
> --
> Peter



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[Peter R.]

Marco Leon <mmleonyahoo.com> wrote:

> My only suggestion after you find the dead mouse is to keep a fresh supply
> of poison around the walls of the T-hangar.

Thanks, Marco, for the suggestions. I had set two D-Con poison baits along
the back wall of the T-hangar and two days later one was completely empty
and the other one disappeared??? The next two fresh packs I set to
replace the empty one were still full a week later, so it appears that the
population may have been temporarily controlled.

One interesting point raised by my mechanic is that normally here in the
Northeast US, temperatures are typically cold enough that mice are in some
type of hibernation.

However, this year we are experiencing a much warmer than average winter
(much to the disappointment of power companies and their huge increase in
natural gas heating prices) and this is allowing the mice to remain active.

--
Peter

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"Peter R." > wrote:

> Marco Leon <mmleonyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > My only suggestion after you find the dead mouse is to keep a fresh supply
> > of poison around the walls of the T-hangar.
>
> Thanks, Marco, for the suggestions. I had set two D-Con poison baits along
> the back wall of the T-hangar and two days later one was completely empty
> and the other one disappeared??? The next two fresh packs I set to
> replace the empty one were still full a week later, so it appears that the
> population may have been temporarily controlled.
>
> One interesting point raised by my mechanic is that normally here in the
> Northeast US, temperatures are typically cold enough that mice are in some
> type of hibernation.
>
> However, this year we are experiencing a much warmer than average winter
> (much to the disappointment of power companies and their huge increase in
> natural gas heating prices) and this is allowing the mice to remain active.

Another thing that mice LOVE is peanut butter! Mix some poison with that.

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.