Which overhauled Lycoming 0-360 A4M Engine To Fit In My Archer ?

[Roy Page]

The Lycoming 0-360 A4M in our Archer is now 2250 SMOH and we are intending
to fit an exchange overhauled engine very soon.

The decision to pull the engine out was easy compared with trying to decide
on the engine to buy.
We have a number of quotes and researched factory and field overhaul
options.
Our list of choices has been narrowed down to the following all of which are
overhauled to new limits and fits.

1. Signature Engines - With new Millennium standard cast cylinders.
2. Penn Yan - With Penn Yan overhauled cylinders.
3. Penn Yan - With new Lycoming Cylinders.
4. Penn Yan - Millennium Certified Overhauled Engine
5. Lycoming factory overhaul with new cylinders.

The above engine options are listed from lowest to the highest price.
The prices range from $14,000 to $20,000.

In another recent posting somebody else commented:-
"If you paid out a lot of bucks for a new aircraft you would be sitting
behind a new Lycoming so why go anywhere else ?"
And indeed why would you go to anybody other than Lycoming, but the dollars
are very different !

A smooth running engine is very important and we will fit a new prop at the
same time.
As far as I have determined only the Millennium Certified engine has parts
balanced to published specified weight tolerances.

So help me make up my mind which engine I should go for because the
potential dollar savings are distracting me.

Thanks,

--
Roy - N5804F Piper Archer
"I have had some bad landings but I have never missed the runway ..... yet"

[Fly]

Many overhaul firms do not refurbish parts in-house but ship parts to
machine shops, like Aircraft Specialties, for rework.

Aircraft Specialties will custom balance parts for any customer, upon
request. Key word there, upon request. The extra cost is only 100-200
bucks, but if the customer doesn't request it, then the factory tolerances
are allowed. And factory tolerance is wide.

The two major actions that will contribute to smooth running engines. is
balance of rotating/reciprocating parts plus a matching, a 'balance', of
cylinders.
A lycoming or continental is just a number of single cylinder engines
grouped together. If one cylinder casting is so many 'CC's' different, it
only stands to reason that the combustion power will be different.

Supposely, since I've been informed but I haven't flow benched them myself,
the investment cast superior cylinders flow within 2% each. Much better
than the 15-17% difference of the old Lyc cylinders of the 1980's era.


good luck
Kent Felkins








"Roy Page" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> The Lycoming 0-360 A4M in our Archer is now 2250 SMOH and we are intending
> to fit an exchange overhauled engine very soon.
>
> The decision to pull the engine out was easy compared with trying to
> decide on the engine to buy.
> We have a number of quotes and researched factory and field overhaul
> options.
> Our list of choices has been narrowed down to the following all of which
> are overhauled to new limits and fits.
>
> 1. Signature Engines - With new Millennium standard cast cylinders.
> 2. Penn Yan - With Penn Yan overhauled cylinders.
> 3. Penn Yan - With new Lycoming Cylinders.
> 4. Penn Yan - Millennium Certified Overhauled Engine
> 5. Lycoming factory overhaul with new cylinders.
>
> The above engine options are listed from lowest to the highest price.
> The prices range from $14,000 to $20,000.
>
> In another recent posting somebody else commented:-
> "If you paid out a lot of bucks for a new aircraft you would be sitting
> behind a new Lycoming so why go anywhere else ?"
> And indeed why would you go to anybody other than Lycoming, but the
> dollars are very different !
>
> A smooth running engine is very important and we will fit a new prop at
> the same time.
> As far as I have determined only the Millennium Certified engine has parts
> balanced to published specified weight tolerances.
>
> So help me make up my mind which engine I should go for because the
> potential dollar savings are distracting me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Roy - N5804F Piper Archer
> "I have had some bad landings but I have never missed the runway .....
> yet"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

: Supposely, since I've been informed but I haven't flow benched them myself,
: the investment cast superior cylinders flow within 2% each. Much better
: than the 15-17% difference of the old Lyc cylinders of the 1980's era.

... and supposedly 6% more than Lycoming, no?

I wouldn't think twice about non-Lycoming parts. The fact of the matter is
there is a lot of room for improvement in 60 year old engine technology. Lycoming has
no interest in providing improvements over AD-avoidance. New technology might have
some teething pains (e.g. ECI AD's), but one proven they've got a lot of potential for
improvement.

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Denny]

Do you have a mechanic to work with who will sign off a field
rebuild...
You might consider sending the case, crank, cam, con rods, to Divco for
IRAN and balancing (or Aircraft Specialities, etc.) along with the new
cylinders of your choice of brand... Press new bushings in the rocker
arms... Send the carb, alternator, vac pump, oil pump, for overhaul...
Overhaul the mags and install with new wires and new hoses... Then
with your mechanic put it back together... This should be less than
the highest bid you had for an overhaul and will give you the
equivalent of a new engine...

denny

[Jim Burns]

"Denny" > wrote in message
<snip>
>This should be less than
> the highest bid you had for an overhaul and will give you the
> equivalent of a new engine...
>
> denny

AND a great experience and education!
Jim

[Kyle Boatright]

"Denny" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Do you have a mechanic to work with who will sign off a field
> rebuild...
> You might consider sending the case, crank, cam, con rods, to Divco for
> IRAN and balancing (or Aircraft Specialities, etc.) along with the new
> cylinders of your choice of brand... Press new bushings in the rocker
> arms... Send the carb, alternator, vac pump, oil pump, for overhaul...
> Overhaul the mags and install with new wires and new hoses... Then
> with your mechanic put it back together... This should be less than
> the highest bid you had for an overhaul and will give you the
> equivalent of a new engine...
>
> denny

My experience is that the mechanic's labor is a very small component of the
cost of a rebuild. The difference in labor cost between the local mechanic
(who may be Superman with a wrench... or not) and a well-known shop is
*probably* less than the bump in value the airplane will get by having an
engine that was rebuilt by a nationally known shop.

[Roy Page]

Well I really appreciate the suggestions so far.

Unfortunately, overhauling the existing engine locally is not a viable
option because the Archer is in regular use as a business tool and for
pleasure of course !
We need to keep the time out of service to 10 days at most so we are fixed
on buying an overhauled exchange engine.
Also I must say that the local mechanics I know will not overhaul engines
because of the costs of the insurance to cover them.

After some really hard soul searching I am leaning towards the Superior
Certified Millennium engine.
I wonder if any of the group have experience of fitting one ?


--
Roy - N5804F Piper Archer
"I have had some bad landings but I have never missed the runway ..... yet"




"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Denny" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Do you have a mechanic to work with who will sign off a field
>> rebuild...
>> You might consider sending the case, crank, cam, con rods, to Divco for
>> IRAN and balancing (or Aircraft Specialities, etc.) along with the new
>> cylinders of your choice of brand... Press new bushings in the rocker
>> arms... Send the carb, alternator, vac pump, oil pump, for overhaul...
>> Overhaul the mags and install with new wires and new hoses... Then
>> with your mechanic put it back together... This should be less than
>> the highest bid you had for an overhaul and will give you the
>> equivalent of a new engine...
>>
>> denny
>
> My experience is that the mechanic's labor is a very small component of
> the cost of a rebuild. The difference in labor cost between the local
> mechanic (who may be Superman with a wrench... or not) and a well-known
> shop is *probably* less than the bump in value the airplane will get by
> having an engine that was rebuilt by a nationally known shop.

[Pindon]

Take a look in Trade-A-Plane. There is a company that sells overhauled
and remanufactured engines at $ 300 over cost.

A factory reman O-360-A4M is $19,690 that would be a zero time engine
with a new log from Lycoming. A Teledyne overhaul is $ 15,050. (These
include exchange)

You minimize the down time and you will get a "brand name" for the o/h.

The company is Air Power Inc.

Good luck