KX170B replacement options

[Robert M. Gary]

I have an odd ball digital replacement 170B that is no longer
servicable. Since I already have the 155 and and moving map GPS, I need
a basic, inexpensive, nav/com hole filller for it as #3 radio. I really
like having it there. What type of used equipment is out there that is
a slide-in 170B replacement. Are there any of those digital MX170Bs
still around ? Anyone recommend a seller of inexpensive, used TSO
radios?
-Robert

[Paul kgyy]

Check out the KX125. It has a built-in CDI and can be found both new
and reconditioned. I have one and like it a lot as #2, though there
are always cheaper options.

[Robert M. Gary]

The problem for me is that if the radio is not a slide-in replacement
for the KX-170B it will cost be a minimum of $2000 to retray the stack
(because its a Mooney). In some cases its not even possible because
there are structure members behind the radios.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

Someone pointed me to some KX-170B's and MAC1700's listed on eBay. My
existing MX-170B (TKM) also has a glideslope which I occasionally
remember to tune in as a backup to my real glideslope. If I buy a used
170B or MAC1700 how will that effect the backup GS? Is the GS
functionality built into the head, or the radio itself??

Thanks!

-Robert

[Mike]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Someone pointed me to some KX-170B's and MAC1700's listed on eBay. My
> existing MX-170B (TKM) also has a glideslope which I occasionally
> remember to tune in as a backup to my real glideslope. If I buy a used
> 170B or MAC1700 how will that effect the backup GS? Is the GS
> functionality built into the head, or the radio itself??
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Robert
>

The MX170B will channel an external GS rcvr but there is no GS rcvr built
into the MX-170B. Same with the KX170B, MAC1700, etc...

Mike

[Robert M. Gary]

So, if I'm currently working with an MX-170B and a working glideslope,
does that mean that when I put the MX-170B in the trash and put a
MAC1700 in (or KX-170B) the glideslope will still work??

-Robert

[Mike]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert M. Gary" >

> So, if I'm currently working with an MX-170B and a working glideslope,
> does that mean that when I put the MX-170B in the trash and put a
> MAC1700 in (or KX-170B) the glideslope will still work??
>
> -Robert
>
Yup. You have an external GS rcvr, probably a King KN-73, somewhere in the
plane. Probably in the fuselage, aft of the baggage compartment. And don't
put the MX170B in the trash. Send it to me!

Mike

[Robert M. Gary]

Do you think there is any value in the MX-170? The display seems very
effected by moisture. For the last couple of years it would be dark
during run up and would slowly come back after the moisture was driven
out of the cabin. Today, it went to 100.00 on all 4 freqs in
mid-flight. The company that makes it (TKM) refuses to fix it because
they want me to buy their new model and they don't offer the manuals so
no shop can legally work on it. Its too bad too. I had the exact same
problem with my KX-155, the shop simply replaced the display for a very
reasonable amount of money. In my opinion, TKM are just being butts
about this.


-Robert

[Mike]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Do you think there is any value in the MX-170? The display seems very
> effected by moisture. For the last couple of years it would be dark
> during run up and would slowly come back after the moisture was driven
> out of the cabin. Today, it went to 100.00 on all 4 freqs in
> mid-flight. The company that makes it (TKM) refuses to fix it because
> they want me to buy their new model and they don't offer the manuals so
> no shop can legally work on it. Its too bad too. I had the exact same
> problem with my KX-155, the shop simply replaced the display for a very
> reasonable amount of money. In my opinion, TKM are just being butts
> about this.
>

Well, it might be worth something to me. I do avionics repair work and I
might be able to fix it or use it for parts. I'll send you an email.

Mike

[Ronnie]

Why not just get a real KX-170B? They are plentiful, work great
and are cheap, relative to other options. It should just slide into your
existing tray.

Ronnie

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I have an odd ball digital replacement 170B that is no longer
> servicable. Since I already have the 155 and and moving map GPS, I need
> a basic, inexpensive, nav/com hole filller for it as #3 radio. I really
> like having it there. What type of used equipment is out there that is
> a slide-in 170B replacement. Are there any of those digital MX170Bs
> still around ? Anyone recommend a seller of inexpensive, used TSO
> radios?
> -Robert
>

[Denny]

The MX-170 is newer technology than the KX-170, flip flop memories,
etc... I have upgraded the existing radios on Fat Albert with the slide
in TKM series radios and been satisfied...

denny

[[email protected]]

Robert M. Gary > wrote:
: Do you think there is any value in the MX-170? The display seems very
: effected by moisture. For the last couple of years it would be dark
: during run up and would slowly come back after the moisture was driven
: out of the cabin. Today, it went to 100.00 on all 4 freqs in
: mid-flight. The company that makes it (TKM) refuses to fix it because
: they want me to buy their new model and they don't offer the manuals so
: no shop can legally work on it. Its too bad too. I had the exact same
: problem with my KX-155, the shop simply replaced the display for a very
: reasonable amount of money. In my opinion, TKM are just being butts
: about this.


I had a friend that got screwed out of his radio in the same way. Bought an
ebay-special MX-170 that worked, but had a little display problem and the volume was a
little low. Sent it to Michel since they would supposedly fix it for a flat rate
(something like $200 or something IIRC). Well, they sat on the radio giving bullsh*t
stories of how it was ready, no there was more broken, now it was in final adjustment
stage, and finally he was told he had to buy a new one. Couldn't even get the old one
back unless he paid about 1/2 the cost of a new one in labor for diagnostics.

He also had a MX-12. After getting screwed on the MX-170, I volunteered to
look inside a bit. They are built much cheaper than King units.... regular COTS ICs,
sockets, ribbon cables, LEDs, etc. That's cheap and easily fixable: as long as you
can get them to fix it or give you the info to do so yourself. Ribbon cables aren't
chafe-protected, non-gold-plated connectors, cheesy DIP sockets for many ICs, etc.

If you look inside a King unit, they're built to avionics standards... not
cheapo consumer VCR standards.

My recommendation: Don't by Michel anything.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Dave Butler]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I have an odd ball digital replacement 170B that is no longer
> servicable. Since I already have the 155 and and moving map GPS, I need
> a basic, inexpensive, nav/com hole filller for it as #3 radio. I really
> like having it there. What type of used equipment is out there that is
> a slide-in 170B replacement. Are there any of those digital MX170Bs
> still around ? Anyone recommend a seller of inexpensive, used TSO
> radios?

A few years ago I found that Gulf Coast Avionics' prices and policies on used
radios were resonable.

Dave

[RST Engineering]

That's cheap and easily fixable: as long as you
> can get them to fix it or give you the info to do so yourself. Ribbon
> cables aren't
> chafe-protected,

Chafe-protected against what?


> non-gold-plated connectors

Tin on tin is every bit as good as gold on gold in the avionics environment.


> cheesy DIP sockets for many ICs, etc.

What does a non-cheesy DIP socket look like? And why in the world would you
ever socket an IC?


>
> If you look inside a King unit, they're built to avionics standards... not
> cheapo consumer VCR standards.

How many devices have you built and marketed to avionics standards? And
where are these standards posted or documented?


> -Cory

You've been a grad student now for about four years as I count. Ever plan
on finishing up?


Jim

>
> --
>
> ************************************************** ***********************
> * Cory Papenfuss *
> * Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
> * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
> ************************************************** ***********************
>

[Robert M. Gary]

> Why not just get a real KX-170B?

I did considered that. Although I"d be giving up the digital flip/flop
I'd be getting a much more reliable radio (according from our local
avionics shop). However, they just told me that there are many KX-170B
parts that are now also getting pretty hard to find. Since MAC1700 is
no longe producing parts, it looks like MX is the only company
currently producing parts for 170B replacements. :(. If I could just
convince them to service my old one. Its actually quite a funky radio.
The buttonology is just different than anything else. The top of the
radio is comm and the bottom is nav. However, the top knob works big
numbers and the bottom works the decimals. There is a C/N button that
flips between com/nav for the knobs. Not what you'd expect. Also, if
you turn the nav off the display is still active. The display on the
nav turns off when you turn the comm off.

-Robert

[RST Engineering]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Why not just get a real KX-170B?
>

Its actually quite a funky radio.
> The buttonology is just different than anything else. The top of the
> radio is comm and the bottom is nav. However, the top knob works big
> numbers and the bottom works the decimals. There is a C/N button that
> flips between com/nav for the knobs. Not what you'd expect. Also, if
> you turn the nav off the display is still active. The display on the
> nav turns off when you turn the comm off.


I'd be willing to bet one of two things. The user interface was either (a)
designed by a good engineer that wasn't a pilot or (b) an engineer two days
out of college. Nobody familiar with avionics would have made those
blunders.

Jim

[[email protected]]

: Chafe-protected against what?

Wire on metal inside the radio. They're not tied down to anything and are
free to flap against other parts inside the radio.

: Tin on tin is every bit as good as gold on gold in the avionics environment.

OK. Sure.... and the crappy little consumer-grade EGT/CHT switches that came
with my multi-cylinder aren't actually exhibiting poor contact resistance already
after only 2.5 years either. I'm not buying it... There *IS* a reason for MIL-SPEC
components.

: What does a non-cheesy DIP socket look like? And why in the world would you
: ever socket an IC?

As you well know, there are high-quality sockets and low-quality sockets. One
wouldn't think that socketing ICs are too necessary, yet the Michel radios had them.

: How many devices have you built and marketed to avionics standards? And
: where are these standards posted or documented?

A personal attack? I would expect more. To answer the question though,
absolutely zero devices have been marketed. I've designed a few ( <5 ) to go on
experimental research rocket payloads. I have designed a number of circuits for use
in an automotive environment for a hybrid electric research vehicle ( >10 ). I have
repaired even more on the same project due to crappy construction quality of circuits
designed by previous people similar to what I've seen in Michel units. I have been
involved with designing and building electrical power electronic circuits switching
over 50kW and have seen the ramification of ill-constructed circuitry. I have been
inside a number of King, Narco, Dave Clark, and Michel avionics and the Michel units
are sub-standard in construction quality by comparison.

: You've been a grad student now for about four years as I count. Ever plan
: on finishing up?

No. I enjoy keeping an open mind and continually learning about as much as I
possibly can. I will never finish being a "student."

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Vaughn]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
.. .
>> non-gold-plated connectors
>
> Tin on tin is every bit as good as gold on gold in the avionics environment.

I respect your background, and I am not an avionics engineer (and do not
play one on TV) but this is directly opposite to my experience. I will never
bother with a non-gold card edge connector again.

>> cheesy DIP sockets for many ICs, etc.

>
> What does a non-cheesy DIP socket look like?

I have had grief with cheap IC sockets. The difference can be pennies per
unit.

> And why in the world would you ever socket an IC?

Here, we agree.

>
> You've been a grad student now for about four years as I count. Ever plan on
> finishing up?

I spent at least 4 years on my Master's, given that life continued to go on
and I still needed a job to feed my family. The Ph.D (if I had continued) would
have taken longer.


Vaughn

[David Lesher]

"Vaughn" > writes:



>> And why in the world would you ever socket an IC?

> Here, we agree.

You socket the IC where your evaluation tells you it's necessity
for replacement overcomes the added issues with a socket.

I designed my boards with the vulnerable IC's in GOOD, gold-plated
sockets. I can't recall the brand now; but they were circular
concentric pins held in a strip of plastic. Not cheap.

The vulnerable ones to me were those that interfaced OFF the board,
to the real world. They took the abuse & died for the cause every
so often. YMMV.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Denny]

Ya know, it's interesting all the opinions, heated and otherwise, that
you read here...
Yup, I agree that the TKM knobs are not idiot proof.. It requires a
good 60 seconds of reading the manual to figger em out...
To repeat, I replaced my electromechanical radios with TKM slide ins
from Eastern Avionics... Been perfectly happy... And, even at my
advanced age I can remember from one flight to the next how to tune
em... And it cost me 10% of hanging a new set of Garmins... Happy
about that too...

denny

[darthpup]

Get a copy of the catalog from Aircraft Spruce. They have a nice
listing of radios at very reasonable prices.

[Marco Leon]

I'd get an original KX-170B in good working order. Check out this site:
www.KX170B.com

This guy is retired and fixes these on the side. He states that they are
repaired to "like new" specifications so the ones he has for sale should be
also. Check the site again but I believe he wants $700 for a refurbished
radio.

I still have the original KX-170B as a #2 to my Garmin 430. Use it mostly
for ATIS and have not desired or needed any flip-flop capability.

Marco

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> > Why not just get a real KX-170B?
>
> I did considered that. Although I"d be giving up the digital flip/flop
> I'd be getting a much more reliable radio (according from our local
> avionics shop). However, they just told me that there are many KX-170B
> parts that are now also getting pretty hard to find. Since MAC1700 is
> no longe producing parts, it looks like MX is the only company
> currently producing parts for 170B replacements. :(. If I could just
> convince them to service my old one. Its actually quite a funky radio.
> The buttonology is just different than anything else. The top of the
> radio is comm and the bottom is nav. However, the top knob works big
> numbers and the bottom works the decimals. There is a C/N button that
> flips between com/nav for the knobs. Not what you'd expect. Also, if
> you turn the nav off the display is still active. The display on the
> nav turns off when you turn the comm off.
>
> -Robert
>



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[Robert M. Gary]

>From what I can tell, Aicraft Spruce only sells new radios. That's a
bit much for a #3 comm hole filler. Just on old, used, but working
KX-170B would fit the bill.

-Robert

[Denny]

Call Eastern Avionics, Gulf Coast, etc... They should have trade ins...
I got some, but they go back in the plane whenever it is sold..

denny

[NW_PILOT]

> wrote in message
...
> Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> : Do you think there is any value in the MX-170? The display seems very
> : effected by moisture. For the last couple of years it would be dark
> : during run up and would slowly come back after the moisture was driven
> : out of the cabin. Today, it went to 100.00 on all 4 freqs in
> : mid-flight. The company that makes it (TKM) refuses to fix it because
> : they want me to buy their new model and they don't offer the manuals so
> : no shop can legally work on it. Its too bad too. I had the exact same
> : problem with my KX-155, the shop simply replaced the display for a very
> : reasonable amount of money. In my opinion, TKM are just being butts
> : about this.
>
>
> I had a friend that got screwed out of his radio in the same way. Bought
an
> ebay-special MX-170 that worked, but had a little display problem and the
volume was a
> little low. Sent it to Michel since they would supposedly fix it for a
flat rate
> (something like $200 or something IIRC). Well, they sat on the radio
giving bullsh*t
> stories of how it was ready, no there was more broken, now it was in final
adjustment
> stage, and finally he was told he had to buy a new one. Couldn't even get
the old one
> back unless he paid about 1/2 the cost of a new one in labor for
diagnostics.
>
> He also had a MX-12. After getting screwed on the MX-170, I volunteered
to
> look inside a bit. They are built much cheaper than King units....
regular COTS ICs,
> sockets, ribbon cables, LEDs, etc. That's cheap and easily fixable: as
long as you
> can get them to fix it or give you the info to do so yourself. Ribbon
cables aren't
> chafe-protected, non-gold-plated connectors, cheesy DIP sockets for many
ICs, etc.
>
> If you look inside a King unit, they're built to avionics standards... not
> cheapo consumer VCR standards.

Hell., some of the king stuff I have seen don't even have solder mask on
the PCB and they use old very cheap boards Not even fiberglass FR4

>
> My recommendation: Don't by Michel anything.
>
> -Cory
>
> --
>
> ************************************************** ***********************
> * Cory Papenfuss *
> * Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
> * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
> ************************************************** ***********************
>