Closing IFR flight plan at uncontrolled field

[paul kgyy]

If you want to maintain IFR status until you're on the ground at an
uncontrolled field, who do you call when you're on the ground, assuming
there's no remote ARTCC radio facility within reach?

FSS?

[Brien K. Meehan]

It depends.

They tell you who to call by phone when they approve you to switch
frequencies.

If the last facility you were talking to was a civilian TRACON, they
usually want you to call them. If it was military or an ARTCC, they
usually want you to call FSS.

.... but that can change, even at a given airport.

If I were on the ground and wasn't sure who call, I'd call FSS first.
They'd either cancel IFR for me or tell me who to call.

[Jim Macklin]

There is no big hurry unless there is traffic waiting
approach, in which case, ask them to relay your safe
landing, otherwise, phone FSS and they will be happy to
advise Center. If your airport is in a TRACON area, I'm
sure you'll have a remote outlet.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Brien K. Meehan" > wrote in message
ups.com...
| It depends.
|
| They tell you who to call by phone when they approve you
to switch
| frequencies.
|
| If the last facility you were talking to was a civilian
TRACON, they
| usually want you to call them. If it was military or an
ARTCC, they
| usually want you to call FSS.
|
| ... but that can change, even at a given airport.
|
| If I were on the ground and wasn't sure who call, I'd call
FSS first.
| They'd either cancel IFR for me or tell me who to call.
|

[Roy Smith]

"paul kgyy" > wrote:

> If you want to maintain IFR status until you're on the ground at an
> uncontrolled field, who do you call when you're on the ground, assuming
> there's no remote ARTCC radio facility within reach?
>
> FSS?

Exactly.

There's several ways to close an IFR flight plan at an uncontrolled field,
in decreasing order of convenience.

1) Cancel in the air while you're still within radio range of ATC.
Obviously only an option in VFR weather.

2) At some fields, there may be a frequency listed in the AFD by which you
can reach either ATC or FSS directly by radio on the ground. Sometimes
it's even the same frequency you were using in the air.

3) Sometimes, ATC will give you a phone number to call after you land to
cancel IFR (NY Approach often does that). This number will ring directly
at the tracon.

4) Lacking any of the above, call 1-800-WX-BRIEF and FSS will relay your
cancellation to ATC.

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On 5 Feb 2006 14:50:52 -0800, "paul kgyy" > wrote:

>If you want to maintain IFR status until you're on the ground at an
>uncontrolled field, who do you call when you're on the ground, assuming
>there's no remote ARTCC radio facility within reach?
>
>FSS?

You call the FSS, either by radio (if reachable) or by telephone.

If possible, you can also have an overflying a/c relay a cancellation to
ATC.

Usually, at KEPM, I use the telephone.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Roy Smith]

Ron Rosenfeld > wrote:
> If possible, you can also have an overflying a/c relay a cancellation to
> ATC.

Have you actually done that? It's my understanding that ATC won't accept
an IFR cancellation via an aircraft relay.

[Robert M. Gary]

> It's my understanding that ATC won't accept
> an IFR cancellation via an aircraft relay.

Not true at all. You can either...
1) Call ATC on the radio (if they can get you)
2) Call ATC with the phone number they provide or
3) Call FSS

Remember to do it somewhat quickly because there may be others in a
holding pattern waiting for your cancelation.

-Robert

[Jim Macklin]

I have done so on several instances. Sometimes, when there
is traffic, ATC has advised that I should notify the
aircraft that is holding awaiting clearance to relay time on
the ground and cancellation. This may be different in
different center areas, don't know about New England or
California areas, but it is often done in Kansas and
Oklahoma.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
| Ron Rosenfeld > wrote:
| > If possible, you can also have an overflying a/c relay a
cancellation to
| > ATC.
|
| Have you actually done that? It's my understanding that
ATC won't accept
| an IFR cancellation via an aircraft relay.

[paul kgyy]

I had ATC request that I do exactly that in Northern Minnesota this
summer for another aircraft that landed. I called him on 122.8,
confirmed that he was on the ground, and informed ATC who closed his
flight plan.

[Matt Whiting]

paul kgyy wrote:

> If you want to maintain IFR status until you're on the ground at an
> uncontrolled field, who do you call when you're on the ground, assuming
> there's no remote ARTCC radio facility within reach?
>
> FSS?
>

That'll work as will calling pretty much any ATC facility.


Matt

[Brien K. Meehan]

This is the first time I've heard anyone say there's no big hurry.

I guess it depends on your location and the associated amount of
traffic and ATC workload. In my neighborhood, there is ALWAYS traffic
waiting. In fact, there's too much traffic get ATC to wait for a
relay.

Also, in my neighborhood, you get a 2 minute departure window with an
IFR clearance. If you ask for 3 minutes, you still get 2 minutes. If
you ask for 5 minutes, you're told to call back when you're ready to
depart.

[Jim Macklin]

The point is that in some parts of the country, Kansas,
Oklahoma, Nebraska for example, all airports with IFR
traffic above a few dozen per week, have remote ATC
frequencies. At other airports with sporadic IFR levels
that justify an IFR approach but not maintaining a remote
ATC outlet, there will rarely be more than one or two
operations per hour at any airport. The only time you don't
have time to land and walk inside to a telephone [if your
cell doesn't work] is if there is another aircraft waiting
for you to cancel so they can depart or land. If they are
in-flight, they will be happy to forward your cancellation
to ATC. If ATC has a strip for a waiting departure or
arrival, they will usually say so and ask for the quickest
cancellation and give instructions.
Often, departing aircraft will be able to depart in Class G
airspace under VFR at such remote uncontrolled airports.
When they are in radar contact with separation from the
other traffic, they will be issued a clearance.
VFR flight plans need to be cancelled within 30 minutes of
the ETA as amended, IFR has the same S&R time frame for
beginning a communications search. But you certainly have
five or ten minutes to land and taxi in and call on the
land-line.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.



"Brien K. Meehan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
| This is the first time I've heard anyone say there's no
big hurry.
|
| I guess it depends on your location and the associated
amount of
| traffic and ATC workload. In my neighborhood, there is
ALWAYS traffic
| waiting. In fact, there's too much traffic get ATC to
wait for a
| relay.
|
| Also, in my neighborhood, you get a 2 minute departure
window with an
| IFR clearance. If you ask for 3 minutes, you still get 2
minutes. If
| you ask for 5 minutes, you're told to call back when
you're ready to
| depart.
|

[Doug]

>If your airport is in a TRACON area, I'm
>sure you'll have a remote outlet.

Not always true. Plenty of airports inside TRACON areas with no RCO.

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 20:09:20 -0500, Roy Smith > wrote:

>Ron Rosenfeld > wrote:
>> If possible, you can also have an overflying a/c relay a cancellation to
>> ATC.
>
>Have you actually done that? It's my understanding that ATC won't accept
>an IFR cancellation via an aircraft relay.

I haven't done it recently -- not for the past three or four years.
However, I have done so in the past (just once or twice) and I've been on
both sides of the relay -- once I was the a/c waiting for the cancellation
so I could get in.

Maybe it's controller/location specific.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Dave Butler]

Roy Smith wrote:
> Ron Rosenfeld > wrote:
>
>>If possible, you can also have an overflying a/c relay a cancellation to
>>ATC.
>
>
> Have you actually done that? It's my understanding that ATC won't accept
> an IFR cancellation via an aircraft relay.


I did this just a few weeks ago, as I was next in line for the approach, the
aircraft on the ground was unable to raise ATC on the radio, and I relayed the
cancellation and was immediately cleared for the approach.

Well, "immediately" is relative. There was a sort of three-way handshake to
verify the cancellation.

Something like:
Me: ATC, Nxxx is trying to call you to cancel IFR.
ATC: Verify you're relaying for Nxxx trying to cancel IFR.
Me: yes
ATC: Please call Nxxx and ask them to verify cancelling IFR.
Me. Nxxx, please verify for ATC that you wish to cancel IFR.
Nxxx: Affirmative cancelling IFR.
Me. ATC, Nxxx confirms cancelling IFR.
ATC: Advise Nxxx cancellation received.
Me; Nxxx, ATC advises cancellation received.
Nxxx: Thank you.
ATC: Nyyy cleared RNAV rwy 21 approach...

[Peter R.]

Dave Butler > wrote:

> Well, "immediately" is relative. There was a sort of three-way handshake to
> verify the cancellation.
>
> Something like:
> Me: ATC, Nxxx is trying to call you to cancel IFR.
> ATC: Verify you're relaying for Nxxx trying to cancel IFR.
> Me: yes
> ATC: Please call Nxxx and ask them to verify cancelling IFR.
> Me. Nxxx, please verify for ATC that you wish to cancel IFR.
> Nxxx: Affirmative cancelling IFR.
> Me. ATC, Nxxx confirms cancelling IFR.
> ATC: Advise Nxxx cancellation received.
> Me; Nxxx, ATC advises cancellation received.
> Nxxx: Thank you.
> ATC: Nyyy cleared RNAV rwy 21 approach...

This sort of CYA makes sense for everyone involved.

--
Peter

[Ronnie]

Another situation is while you are waiting to depart on IFR
clearance and being held for approach / landing traffic. Last
summer when I called ready to depart at Destin, FL, approach
told me to hold for release becuse of landing IFR traffic on an approach
to the airport. He called me back in a minute and gave me an update,
"Lear on approach now 2 miles striaght-in runway xxx". I advised I
had the traffic in sight and the controller asked me to report when
the Lear's wheels touched the runway. I did and he immediately released
me, even before the Lear turned off the runway.

Ronnie

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1139238235.265085@sj-nntpcache-5...
> Roy Smith wrote:
>> Ron Rosenfeld > wrote:
>>
>>>If possible, you can also have an overflying a/c relay a cancellation to
>>>ATC.
>>
>>
>> Have you actually done that? It's my understanding that ATC won't accept
>> an IFR cancellation via an aircraft relay.
>
>
> I did this just a few weeks ago, as I was next in line for the approach,
> the aircraft on the ground was unable to raise ATC on the radio, and I
> relayed the cancellation and was immediately cleared for the approach.
>
> Well, "immediately" is relative. There was a sort of three-way handshake
> to verify the cancellation.
>
> Something like:
> Me: ATC, Nxxx is trying to call you to cancel IFR.
> ATC: Verify you're relaying for Nxxx trying to cancel IFR.
> Me: yes
> ATC: Please call Nxxx and ask them to verify cancelling IFR.
> Me. Nxxx, please verify for ATC that you wish to cancel IFR.
> Nxxx: Affirmative cancelling IFR.
> Me. ATC, Nxxx confirms cancelling IFR.
> ATC: Advise Nxxx cancellation received.
> Me; Nxxx, ATC advises cancellation received.
> Nxxx: Thank you.
> ATC: Nyyy cleared RNAV rwy 21 approach...

[Dave Butler]

Back when I was newly instrument-rated, I was so excited about having completed
my first ILS in IMC that I completely forgot about cancelling. As I taxied past
another airplane, I was still on the approach freq and I heard him call
approach, "...is that aircraft that I'm holding for N12345? He just taxiied past
me". I sheepishly 'fessed up and cancelled. DGB

Ronnie wrote:
> Another situation is while you are waiting to depart on IFR
> clearance and being held for approach / landing traffic. Last
> summer when I called ready to depart at Destin, FL, approach
> told me to hold for release becuse of landing IFR traffic on an approach
> to the airport. He called me back in a minute and gave me an update,
> "Lear on approach now 2 miles striaght-in runway xxx". I advised I
> had the traffic in sight and the controller asked me to report when
> the Lear's wheels touched the runway. I did and he immediately released
> me, even before the Lear turned off the runway.
>
> Ronnie
>
> "Dave Butler" > wrote in message
> news:1139238235.265085@sj-nntpcache-5...
>
>>Roy Smith wrote:
>>
>>>Ron Rosenfeld > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>If possible, you can also have an overflying a/c relay a cancellation to
>>>>ATC.
>>>
>>>
>>>Have you actually done that? It's my understanding that ATC won't accept
>>>an IFR cancellation via an aircraft relay.
>>
>>
>>I did this just a few weeks ago, as I was next in line for the approach,
>>the aircraft on the ground was unable to raise ATC on the radio, and I
>>relayed the cancellation and was immediately cleared for the approach.
>>
>>Well, "immediately" is relative. There was a sort of three-way handshake
>>to verify the cancellation.
>>
>>Something like:
>>Me: ATC, Nxxx is trying to call you to cancel IFR.
>>ATC: Verify you're relaying for Nxxx trying to cancel IFR.
>>Me: yes
>>ATC: Please call Nxxx and ask them to verify cancelling IFR.
>>Me. Nxxx, please verify for ATC that you wish to cancel IFR.
>>Nxxx: Affirmative cancelling IFR.
>>Me. ATC, Nxxx confirms cancelling IFR.
>>ATC: Advise Nxxx cancellation received.
>>Me; Nxxx, ATC advises cancellation received.
>>Nxxx: Thank you.
>>ATC: Nyyy cleared RNAV rwy 21 approach...
>
>
>


--
Dave Butler, software engineer 919-392-4367

[Jim Macklin]

One problem is that a majority of the IFR is at those
airports with control towers, so pilots forget about
canceling. Much of the IFR to uncontrolled airports is in
VMC weather and the pilot will cancel when 5 miles from the
airport, the IFR flight plan just being a nice way to handle
controlled airspace, weather and TFRs. When they do have to
go to the E airport in real IMC, they forget that they have
to cancel.
Part 135 is required to be on a flight plan [VFR or IFR with
pax onboard or have their own flight following] so charter
flights can't cancel before landing even in good VMC.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1139495082.404516@sj-nntpcache-3...
| Back when I was newly instrument-rated, I was so excited
about having completed
| my first ILS in IMC that I completely forgot about
cancelling. As I taxied past
| another airplane, I was still on the approach freq and I
heard him call
| approach, "...is that aircraft that I'm holding for
N12345? He just taxiied past
| me". I sheepishly 'fessed up and cancelled. DGB
|
| Ronnie wrote:
| > Another situation is while you are waiting to depart on
IFR
| > clearance and being held for approach / landing traffic.
Last
| > summer when I called ready to depart at Destin, FL,
approach
| > told me to hold for release becuse of landing IFR
traffic on an approach
| > to the airport. He called me back in a minute and gave
me an update,
| > "Lear on approach now 2 miles striaght-in runway xxx".
I advised I
| > had the traffic in sight and the controller asked me to
report when
| > the Lear's wheels touched the runway. I did and he
immediately released
| > me, even before the Lear turned off the runway.
| >
| > Ronnie
| >
| > "Dave Butler" > wrote in message
| > news:1139238235.265085@sj-nntpcache-5...
| >
| >>Roy Smith wrote:
| >>
| >>>Ron Rosenfeld > wrote:
| >>>
| >>>
| >>>>If possible, you can also have an overflying a/c relay
a cancellation to
| >>>>ATC.
| >>>
| >>>
| >>>Have you actually done that? It's my understanding
that ATC won't accept
| >>>an IFR cancellation via an aircraft relay.
| >>
| >>
| >>I did this just a few weeks ago, as I was next in line
for the approach,
| >>the aircraft on the ground was unable to raise ATC on
the radio, and I
| >>relayed the cancellation and was immediately cleared for
the approach.
| >>
| >>Well, "immediately" is relative. There was a sort of
three-way handshake
| >>to verify the cancellation.
| >>
| >>Something like:
| >>Me: ATC, Nxxx is trying to call you to cancel IFR.
| >>ATC: Verify you're relaying for Nxxx trying to cancel
IFR.
| >>Me: yes
| >>ATC: Please call Nxxx and ask them to verify cancelling
IFR.
| >>Me. Nxxx, please verify for ATC that you wish to cancel
IFR.
| >>Nxxx: Affirmative cancelling IFR.
| >>Me. ATC, Nxxx confirms cancelling IFR.
| >>ATC: Advise Nxxx cancellation received.
| >>Me; Nxxx, ATC advises cancellation received.
| >>Nxxx: Thank you.
| >>ATC: Nyyy cleared RNAV rwy 21 approach...
| >
| >
| >
|
|
| --
| Dave Butler, software engineer 919-392-4367