IFR to IAD

[Al]

Any pointer for a short trip IFR or VFR to IAD?


--
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[Robert Henry]

IFR

GPS

Have the UA BARIN FMS waypoints http://www.mcaa-md.org/resources/iad3.jpg
(old chart, not for navigation ;) ) (Close as you'll get to WDC)

Piedmont

The centerlines have big bumpy lights - land left or right of them

Be able to maintain 120k or greater until over the numbers.

Up to 0930 - busy
Up to noonish - light traffic
The bizjets seem to flow in heaviest after lunch but before 1530
1530-2100 busy busy busy (might need to expect an "engine start" time if
departing during these hours)

Have taxiway map

Watch for jetblast

Look for the Concorde parked at the end of 19L, I believe.




"Al" > wrote in message
news:O3Gqb.98144$9E1.475182@attbi_s52...
> Any pointer for a short trip IFR or VFR to IAD?
>
>
> --
> remove underscores to email
>
>

[Guy Elden Jr.]

"Al" > wrote in message
news:O3Gqb.98144$9E1.475182@attbi_s52...
> Any pointer for a short trip IFR or VFR to IAD?

I did an IFR trip to IAD from Elizabeth City, NC, a while back with my
instructor and wife, in a 172SP. It was crystal clear VFR, but you'll need
to be talking to ATC anyway if you plan on going anywhere within 30nm of the
airport, so you may as well do it IFR if you can.

The approach for us was silky smooth... excellent controllers working there.
Once we got handed off to Dulles tower, all hell practically broke loose.
The guy working approaches and departures that day clearly did not know how
to handle us... we were on final for 01L when we got an instruction to make
left base for 30. That seemed a little abrupt, so my instructor immediately
radioed back to ask for clarification... that maneuver would have prolonged
our approach and kept us in the 01L approach path... it just didn't make any
sense. So the controller responded to fly a right downwind for 30. But I
wasn't convinced that he issued that instruction to us, so I asked to
repeat... didn't get a reply, so my instructor had me fly the downwind.
Eventually he came back and asked if we could make the approach to 12 from
where we were, we said we could, and I proceded to make a very tight
approach, complete with full side slip and some flaps to boot. Got down in a
hurry, landed, and scuttled on off to the side. Contacted ground, and felt a
lot more comfortable with the lady working that freq... she at least had an
idea about where we were and how to get us to the north end of the field to
Piedmont Hawthorne.

After dropping off my wife and getting a complimentary ride over to the
Subway sandwich shop on the field, we got back in the plane and prepared to
depart enroute back home to CDW. Ground again had the same lady working the
freq, but we got a bit turned around... we passed the taxiway she wanted us
to hold short on (short of 01L), so she just had us continue on south to the
next one (A4 or something like that). Switched over to tower, where the
controller who couldn't handle us coming in was also still on. And this
time, he was _definitely_ not pleased with us trying to leave during the
evening rush... Sunday around 8pm. It was dark, my instructor and I were
both ready to go, and after holding short for about 5 minutes as all the big
Boeing jets made their arrivals, my instructor proceded to make a simple
query: "Tower, this is Nxxxx, any word on the delay?" The reply we got was
nothing short of the most unprofessional, arrogant, a**holeish, and
downright insulting rant either of us have ever heard from anybody in the
system... controller or pilot. Something to the effect of how he was doing
us a _favor_ by allowing us to depart on the arrivals runway instead of
making us trudge all the hell the way over to 01R, the departure runway, to
takeoff behind big heavy jets leaving nasty wake vortices which would cause
us to "auger in" immediately after leaving terra firma ("auger in" were his
_exact_ words).

Fortunately it wasn't my instructor's boss in the plane, or I fear he
would've gotten out of the plane, run over to the tower and up the stairs,
and beaten this guy to a bloody pulp... _that's_ how ****ed off we were
after hearing this... my instructor simply clicked the mic. We waited for at
least another 10 minutes before getting cleared to depart, then as soon as
we were off and handed over to departure, my instructor asked for the phone
number to the tower. Next day, that guy's boss got his ass chewed out
royally, and a million apologies were handed out over the phone, saying that
that kind of conduct is not something they tolerate over there, nor how they
do business with smaller planes.

Needless to say, I will _never_ fly into IAD without at least another
trained set of eyes with me in the plane. That one controller clearly does
not belong up in the big leagues, with his attitude and inability to handle
us on the arrival. And I highly doubt I would've been able to handle the
situation on my own... the instructions we got coming in were confusing, and
confusion is something you do _not_ want to have when you've got a whole
line of big iron ready to run over your tiny little spam can on that nice
10,000 foot long, 150 foot wide runway.

--
jr

[John T]

"Guy Elden Jr." > wrote in message

>
> And I highly doubt I would've
> been able to handle the situation on my own... the instructions we
> got coming in were confusing, and confusion is something you do _not_
> want to have when you've got a whole line of big iron ready to run
> over your tiny little spam can on that nice 10,000 foot long, 150
> foot wide runway.

This confusion is a real issue. IAD has a couple of "pushes" a day where it
really is not a good idea to be in a little plane there unless you have a
bit of experience at this kind of field. The controllers are issuing
rapid-fire instructions and frequency time can be at a severe premium at
those times. Having a pilot in the area that is not familiar with
operations at a large Class B field only adds to everybody's frustrations.

I'm not at all suggesting that pilots stay away. All I'm saying is that
your first couple of trips to a busy Class B airport should be with another
experienced pilot flying with you or at off-peak times.

For anybody interested, a DC-area email list has a couple of controllers on
it that have published the better times for us "small guys" to pay a visit.
http://archives.his.com/dcpilots-l

FWIW, I've had very few problems with IAD/PCT controllers.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer
_______________

[Ron Natalie]

"Guy Elden Jr." > wrote in message ...

> The approach for us was silky smooth... excellent controllers working there.
> Once we got handed off to Dulles tower, all hell practically broke loose.
> The guy working approaches and departures that day clearly did not know how
> to handle us... we were on final for 01L when we got an instruction to make
> left base for 30.

What's abrupt? The runways are about at right angles to each other at
their respective approach ends. Crikes it's 4500 feet to the first turnoff.
You just continue up to 30 and then turn left and land. What they
probably wanted was to depart guys on 1L rather than making them
wait for you.

> After dropping off my wife and getting a complimentary ride over to the
> Subway sandwich shop on the field, we got back in the plane and prepared to
> depart enroute back home to CDW. Ground again had the same lady working the
> freq, but we got a bit turned around... we passed the taxiway she wanted us
> to hold short on (short of 01L),

You seem to need to work on your naviagation skills at large airports.

> so she just had us continue on south to the
> next one (A4 or something like that).

A4 isn't anywhere near the runways. Yankee, Kilo, and Quebec are
the stubs. Suggest you study a taxiway chart and have it out nextime.

> The reply we got was
> nothing short of the most unprofessional, arrogant, a**holeish, and
> downright insulting rant

There is no excuse for the rant. But he is right. They were doing you
a favor. Five minutes is not a excessive wait during a push.

> Needless to say, I will _never_ fly into IAD without at least another
> trained set of eyes with me in the plane. That one controller clearly does
> not belong up in the big leagues, with his attitude and inability to handle
> us on the arrival.

I have my severe doubts whether you belong at big airports either. I used to
be based at Dulles and I've never had the magnitude of problems you've had.

[Al]

Wow! What a mouthful!

Sorry about your experience. I did fly into IAD twice this weekend, once on
Friday, and once on Sunday. IAD is a busy place, and I expect that. But, I
had a good experience with everyone there, minus a jet jockey who thought he
was better than me (in my arrow).

To list specifics:

1) The Bravo and ADIZ is no big deal.
2) Approach is probably the best I've seen in the country.
3) Ground is good, if overworked.
4) Piedmont-Hawthorne is top-notch.

No problems whatsoever with IAD.

--
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"Guy Elden Jr." > wrote in message
...
> Needless to say, I will _never_ fly into IAD without at least another
> trained set of eyes with me in the plane. That one controller clearly does
> not belong up in the big leagues, with his attitude and inability to
handle