initial fix an intersection

[SFM]

Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your initial fix on
your IFR flight?

My plan has two NAVs and an IFR GPS. So I have at least 3 ways to identify
the intersection granted doing it with one NAV is painful during departure
but it could be done. I curious to hear people opinions.

Scott

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott F. Migaldi, K9PO
MI-150972
PP-ASEL

Are you a PADI Instructor or DM? Then join the PADI
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-----------------------------------
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www.hamwave.com


**"A long time ago being crazy meant something, nowadays everyone is
crazy" -- Charles Manson**
-------------------------------------

[Kobra]

It's sounds ok to use an INT as an initial approach fix under your
circumstances, but do you think that ATC's clearance will be of the same
mind as what you planned?

Kobra



"SFM" > wrote in message
...
> Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your initial fix
on
> your IFR flight?
>
> My plan has two NAVs and an IFR GPS. So I have at least 3 ways to identify
> the intersection granted doing it with one NAV is painful during departure
> but it could be done. I curious to hear people opinions.
>
> Scott
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Scott F. Migaldi, K9PO
> MI-150972
> PP-ASEL
>
> Are you a PADI Instructor or DM? Then join the PADI
> Instructor Yahoo Group at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/join
> -----------------------------------
> Catch the wave!
> www.hamwave.com
>
>
> **"A long time ago being crazy meant something, nowadays everyone is
> crazy" -- Charles Manson**
> -------------------------------------
>
>

[Bob Gardner]

Where does it say that it is bad planning?

Bob Gardner

"SFM" > wrote in message
...
> Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your initial fix
on
> your IFR flight?
>
> My plan has two NAVs and an IFR GPS. So I have at least 3 ways to identify
> the intersection granted doing it with one NAV is painful during departure
> but it could be done. I curious to hear people opinions.
>
> Scott
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Scott F. Migaldi, K9PO
> MI-150972
> PP-ASEL
>
> Are you a PADI Instructor or DM? Then join the PADI
> Instructor Yahoo Group at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/join
> -----------------------------------
> Catch the wave!
> www.hamwave.com
>
>
> **"A long time ago being crazy meant something, nowadays everyone is
> crazy" -- Charles Manson**
> -------------------------------------
>
>

[David Megginson]

"SFM" > writes:

> Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your
> initial fix on your IFR flight?

I've never heard the issue discussed, myself, but I imagine that the
problem would be navigating to the intersection from the airport if
you didn't have an IFR GPS and you were not starting out on one of the
intersecting airways.


All the best,


David

[Dan Luke]

"SFM" wrote:
> Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your initial
> fix on your IFR flight?

Who says it is? I file to STETS as my first fix every time I head north
out of Mobile -- if I don't, ZHU will do it for me anyway.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"SFM" > wrote in message
...
>
> Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your initial fix
on
> your IFR flight?
>

It isn't.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"David Megginson" > wrote in message
...
>
> I've never heard the issue discussed, myself, but I imagine that the
> problem would be navigating to the intersection from the airport if
> you didn't have an IFR GPS and you were not starting out on one of the
> intersecting airways.
>

Well, you shouldn't plan what you can't do, but it's his plan and he does
have an IFR GPS so that's not a problem.

[Michael]

"SFM" > wrote
> Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your initial fix on
> your IFR flight?

It's not. Who said it was?

Michael

[Stan Gosnell]

"SFM" > wrote in :

> Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your initial
> fix on your IFR flight?
>
> My plan has two NAVs and an IFR GPS. So I have at least 3 ways to
> identify the intersection granted doing it with one NAV is painful
> during departure but it could be done. I curious to hear people
> opinions.

I do that all the time. It can be difficult to navigate directly to an
intersection if all you have is one VOR, but with an IFR GPS it's easy. We
have lots of bases which make that necessary, or else go way, way out of
our way when we're fuel critical at takeoff in the first place.

--
Regards,

Stan

[Snowbird]

David Megginson > wrote in message >...

> I've never heard the issue discussed, myself, but I imagine that the
> problem would be navigating to the intersection from the airport if
> you didn't have an IFR GPS and you were not starting out on one of the
> intersecting airways.

Why can't you just navigate to the intersection with
two VORs? Isn't that taught?

One VOR, I wouldn't care to attempt myself. Would want to
be established on an airway.

Cheers,
Sydney

[Dave Butler]

Snowbird wrote:
>
> Why can't you just navigate to the intersection with
> two VORs? Isn't that taught?
>

There's the concept of "positive course guidance". As far as I know it's not
codified anywhere, it's just recognized by some as good practice. I asked the
same questions, in this same forum, a long time ago, and I came away from that
encounter convinced that positive course guidance is a good thing. I now file
flight plans that use only positive course guidance.

In other words, the initial fix on my route is a ground based navaid of some
kind. If I had a certified GPS, I would have no heartburn about using some
random intersection as an initial fix.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

[Matthew S. Whiting]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "SFM" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your initial fix
>
> on
>
>>your IFR flight?
>>
>
>
> It isn't.
>
>

As long as you can navigate to it.


Matt

[Matthew S. Whiting]

Snowbird wrote:
> David Megginson > wrote in message >...
>
>
>>I've never heard the issue discussed, myself, but I imagine that the
>>problem would be navigating to the intersection from the airport if
>>you didn't have an IFR GPS and you were not starting out on one of the
>>intersecting airways.
>
>
> Why can't you just navigate to the intersection with
> two VORs? Isn't that taught?
>
> One VOR, I wouldn't care to attempt myself. Would want to
> be established on an airway.
>
> Cheers,
> Sydney

It is pretty hard to fly a straight line using two VORs, unless you are
on a line between one of the VORs and the intersection.


Matt

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Matthew S. Whiting" > wrote in message
...
>
> As long as you can navigate to it.
>

One should not file what one cannot fly.

[Greg Goodknight]

"SFM" > wrote in message
...
> Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your initial fix
on
> your IFR flight?

Who said it was? It's the only way to depart some airports and it's safe. It
is also what the DUATS flight plan route generation will give you
automagically if a VOR isn't in the right spot.

My instrument practical started at a small airport (Angwin, 2O3) without
instrument procedures and navigating to POPES as the initial fix of a
mythical IFR flight was the first item on the agenda. It's like any fix. You
choose to intercept one radial or the other with a reasonable intercept
angle, and go from there. You can even just fly a heading towards the fix
and try to keep the picture just so, but chances are one of those radials is
going to be your course for awhile and it's a bit easier to intercept that
one first, even if you have a VFR GPS for situational awareness ;)

The standard departure from Grass Valley (O17) used to be a heading to
intercept an airway to a fix. Really no different. You don't need to be able
to establish an instrument course with positive guidance direct to the fix
to know where you are. You've got a compass, a HI, and know what the
indicator needles should look like when keeping within the bounds of those
two radials.

>
> My plan has two NAVs and an IFR GPS. So I have at least 3 ways to identify
> the intersection granted doing it with one NAV is painful during departure
> but it could be done. I curious to hear people opinions.

I did some IFR training in my PA-28 before I got a second KX-155 installed.
It was very difficult for me, I hated spinning the OBS around. Too many
numbers to remember ;). Got easier with a DVOR readout added but didn't
finish up the rating until that second radio got installed. Can't imagine
passing the practical with one radio, but it's nice to know I could get
around with only one, even without a handheld GPS. ATC would probably make
life easier after a failure than the DE would without the equipment
installed.

There is a dual DVOR indicator with a morse ID decoder on the market. If I
didn't already have a DVOR on my #2 NAV I'd probably install the indicator.
It's very nice if one needs to go direct to a VOR (like on a missed) and be
able to read directly the heading to turn towards, and both it and your
heading tend to converge to something inbetween. The OBS can be spun
directly to the inbound course without overshoot. Very handy. It's also nice
to have a digital readout of a radial used for the fix to watch and make a
mental check against one's view of reality while the needle remains fully
deflected.

cheers
-Greg
PP ASEL IA

>
> Scott
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Scott F. Migaldi, K9PO
> MI-150972
> PP-ASEL
>
> Are you a PADI Instructor or DM? Then join the PADI
> Instructor Yahoo Group at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/join
> -----------------------------------
> Catch the wave!
> www.hamwave.com
>
>
> **"A long time ago being crazy meant something, nowadays everyone is
> crazy" -- Charles Manson**
> -------------------------------------
>
>