Damaged the Budget Today

[Wendy]

I upgraded from my ridiculously cheap and poorly performing Flightline
headset to a DC H20-10 in preparation for my IFR training. I haven't flown
with the DC's yet, but I will Saturday afternoon. My rationale here is
two-fold in that if I am in need of communicating, it would be a good thing
to not only have some equipment I can reliably communicate with, but to
initiate my IFR training at an airport that is controlled (KDWH) rather than
the admittedly fine uncontrolled airport I initially trained at (KCXO); the
choice of which will obviously requires a level of conversation surpassing
simply shooting the breeze.

The FBO where I bought the headset- Mercury Flight Systems- seems to have a
solid, while expensive, approach to the IFR experience. Rather than making
loads of short XC's, they seem to stress longer ones;
Houston-Memphis-Houston being one example. Obviously, there will be a lot
of shorter excursions in the curriculum, but I have to say that the idea of
flying under an instrument flight plan on major excursions is a challenging
surely and valuable experience. These people seem honestly concerned with
making me a proficient IFR pilot rather than simply preparing me for the
checkride, which is the general impression I got from the operation where I
obtained my initial certification. Any comments on this would be greatly
appreciated; being trained to pass the PTS is one thing, and thoroughly
understanding it is another, IMHO.

Apparently the training will be conducted in a C-172 upgraded to 180hp with
a CS prop; since I have some (short) time in a Super Decathlon this won't be
totally new to me. Instrument flying will be new, other than than my brief
exposure required by the Private program, and I am looking forward to it.
This is a challenge I really want to master, and any suggestions you all
might have as concerns beginning training would be greatly appreciated.

Wendy

[Kobra]

You won't be sorry for buying the headset. I'm sure it's much quieter than
your cheaper set. That can be very important on long xc's in IMC as it will
reduce your fatigue level. The next step will be when you upgrade to an ANR
set which will further reduce the fatigue level.

Try and schedule as much time in actual IMC as possible once you start
shooting approaches. You may find that it is significantly different than
flying under the hood. No pun intended, but it can be a real eye opening
experience.

Kobra

"Wendy" > wrote in message
...
> I upgraded from my ridiculously cheap and poorly performing Flightline
> headset to a DC H20-10 in preparation for my IFR training. I haven't
flown
> with the DC's yet, but I will Saturday afternoon. My rationale here is
> two-fold in that if I am in need of communicating, it would be a good
thing
> to not only have some equipment I can reliably communicate with, but to
> initiate my IFR training at an airport that is controlled (KDWH) rather
than
> the admittedly fine uncontrolled airport I initially trained at (KCXO);
the
> choice of which will obviously requires a level of conversation surpassing
> simply shooting the breeze.
>
> The FBO where I bought the headset- Mercury Flight Systems- seems to have
a
> solid, while expensive, approach to the IFR experience. Rather than
making
> loads of short XC's, they seem to stress longer ones;
> Houston-Memphis-Houston being one example. Obviously, there will be a lot
> of shorter excursions in the curriculum, but I have to say that the idea
of
> flying under an instrument flight plan on major excursions is a
challenging
> surely and valuable experience. These people seem honestly concerned with
> making me a proficient IFR pilot rather than simply preparing me for the
> checkride, which is the general impression I got from the operation where
I
> obtained my initial certification. Any comments on this would be greatly
> appreciated; being trained to pass the PTS is one thing, and thoroughly
> understanding it is another, IMHO.
>
> Apparently the training will be conducted in a C-172 upgraded to 180hp
with
> a CS prop; since I have some (short) time in a Super Decathlon this won't
be
> totally new to me. Instrument flying will be new, other than than my
brief
> exposure required by the Private program, and I am looking forward to it.
> This is a challenge I really want to master, and any suggestions you all
> might have as concerns beginning training would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Wendy
>
>

[Cecil E. Chapman]

In a similar vein - I decided that since I was going to be going for my
commercial and then CFI rating after finishing my instrument (which I'm
presently, on) I would finally get one of those ANR headsets. The Bose is a
little to rich for the lint that's in my pocket, so I bought Lightspeed's
20L ANR headset from and eBay auction. I had been using the Lightspeed
passive headset - QFR Solo in the previous couple of years.

Anyway, I decided to 'christen' the headset by using it on one of my
instrument lessons. I put it on, without pressing the ANR 'on' switch, find
myself thinking "well, this is hardly anything",, then I realized I hadn't
turned on the ANR and pressed the button,,,, WOW,,, I was sold as I 'heard'
the sound and the engine roar drop to nearly nothing. I was such a happy
customer that I decided to get a Lightspeed 20 3G ANR headset and just
placed an order for one, a couple of days ago - it's supposed to arrive
around Monday. It has slightly better ANR with a cell phone input and an
automatic shutoff to protect the user from leaving the headset on inside the
headset bag. Looking forward to checking it out on my instrument lesson
next Thursday.

If there are any 'fence sitters" on getting the ANR headset I have to tell
ya to get one! The part that surprised me most was how fatiguing that
engine drone could be over a couple hours of instrument flying and how
refreshed I felt without that noise in the background during my instrument
lessons. The way I felt was like night and day.

By the way, if you want to use a good 'best price finder', I've become a big
fan of www.froogle.com . It's how I bought my latest headset - cost me $459
with FREE shipping via UPS. I'm pretty thrilled!!!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

Check out my personal flying adventures: www.bayareapilot.com
"Wendy" > wrote in message
...
> I upgraded from my ridiculously cheap and poorly performing Flightline
> headset to a DC H20-10 in preparation for my IFR training. I haven't
flown
> with the DC's yet, but I will Saturday afternoon. My rationale here is
> two-fold in that if I am in need of communicating, it would be a good
thing
> to not only have some equipment I can reliably communicate with, but to
> initiate my IFR training at an airport that is controlled (KDWH) rather
than
> the admittedly fine uncontrolled airport I initially trained at (KCXO);
the
> choice of which will obviously requires a level of conversation surpassing
> simply shooting the breeze.
>
> The FBO where I bought the headset- Mercury Flight Systems- seems to have
a
> solid, while expensive, approach to the IFR experience. Rather than
making
> loads of short XC's, they seem to stress longer ones;
> Houston-Memphis-Houston being one example. Obviously, there will be a lot
> of shorter excursions in the curriculum, but I have to say that the idea
of
> flying under an instrument flight plan on major excursions is a
challenging
> surely and valuable experience. These people seem honestly concerned with
> making me a proficient IFR pilot rather than simply preparing me for the
> checkride, which is the general impression I got from the operation where
I
> obtained my initial certification. Any comments on this would be greatly
> appreciated; being trained to pass the PTS is one thing, and thoroughly
> understanding it is another, IMHO.
>
> Apparently the training will be conducted in a C-172 upgraded to 180hp
with
> a CS prop; since I have some (short) time in a Super Decathlon this won't
be
> totally new to me. Instrument flying will be new, other than than my
brief
> exposure required by the Private program, and I am looking forward to it.
> This is a challenge I really want to master, and any suggestions you all
> might have as concerns beginning training would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Wendy
>
>

[Cecil E. Chapman]

Oops... forgot to mention. I'm planning on using the 20L headset for
passengers. I figure the exceptional noise reduction might be especially
good for new or first-time passengers - can't help thinking the engine drone
contributes to at least, some of their stress.

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

Check out my personal flying adventures: www.bayareapilot.com

[Jeff]

I am all for long, multiple XC's.
Since I own my own plane, I only had to pay for the instructor, I specifically
requested alot of XC's, I would check the weather and whenI saw actual in the
los angeles basin I would call him and say hey we have weather, wanna go fly.
I also did some night IFR up to cedar city, Utah from las vegas.

flying these approaches gave me time to do actual IFR and not just "shooting
approaches", so you get the whole thing, arrival procedure, approach, vectors,
all on one approach.

Wendy wrote:

> I upgraded from my ridiculously cheap and poorly performing Flightline
> headset to a DC H20-10 in preparation for my IFR training. I haven't flown
> with the DC's yet, but I will Saturday afternoon. My rationale here is
> two-fold in that if I am in need of communicating, it would be a good thing
> to not only have some equipment I can reliably communicate with, but to
> initiate my IFR training at an airport that is controlled (KDWH) rather than
> the admittedly fine uncontrolled airport I initially trained at (KCXO); the
> choice of which will obviously requires a level of conversation surpassing
> simply shooting the breeze.
>
> The FBO where I bought the headset- Mercury Flight Systems- seems to have a
> solid, while expensive, approach to the IFR experience. Rather than making
> loads of short XC's, they seem to stress longer ones;
> Houston-Memphis-Houston being one example. Obviously, there will be a lot
> of shorter excursions in the curriculum, but I have to say that the idea of
> flying under an instrument flight plan on major excursions is a challenging
> surely and valuable experience. These people seem honestly concerned with
> making me a proficient IFR pilot rather than simply preparing me for the
> checkride, which is the general impression I got from the operation where I
> obtained my initial certification. Any comments on this would be greatly
> appreciated; being trained to pass the PTS is one thing, and thoroughly
> understanding it is another, IMHO.
>
> Apparently the training will be conducted in a C-172 upgraded to 180hp with
> a CS prop; since I have some (short) time in a Super Decathlon this won't be
> totally new to me. Instrument flying will be new, other than than my brief
> exposure required by the Private program, and I am looking forward to it.
> This is a challenge I really want to master, and any suggestions you all
> might have as concerns beginning training would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Wendy

[Jeff]

Another thing, alot of people wont fly with an instructor after getting their
rating, personally, if I see some good wicked weather, I will call my instructor
and see if he wants to fly. My goal is to get experience in all kinds of
different weather, do all the flying my self, just have him with me incase
things get out of hand.
My commericial instructor right now is the same guy I used for my instrument, I
just got new avionics in my plane (garmin 430,garmin x-ponder and some other
stuff) and am going up with him for some commericial work and instrument work
so can practice doing approaches with the new GPS.

the key to good instrument training is to have a good instructor who is
experienced in hard IFR and knows what you can fly into safely.


Wendy wrote:

> I upgraded from my ridiculously cheap and poorly performing Flightline
> headset to a DC H20-10 in preparation for my IFR training. I haven't flown
> with the DC's yet, but I will Saturday afternoon. My rationale here is
> two-fold in that if I am in need of communicating, it would be a good thing
> to not only have some equipment I can reliably communicate with, but to
> initiate my IFR training at an airport that is controlled (KDWH) rather than
> the admittedly fine uncontrolled airport I initially trained at (KCXO); the
> choice of which will obviously requires a level of conversation surpassing
> simply shooting the breeze.
>
> The FBO where I bought the headset- Mercury Flight Systems- seems to have a
> solid, while expensive, approach to the IFR experience. Rather than making
> loads of short XC's, they seem to stress longer ones;
> Houston-Memphis-Houston being one example. Obviously, there will be a lot
> of shorter excursions in the curriculum, but I have to say that the idea of
> flying under an instrument flight plan on major excursions is a challenging
> surely and valuable experience. These people seem honestly concerned with
> making me a proficient IFR pilot rather than simply preparing me for the
> checkride, which is the general impression I got from the operation where I
> obtained my initial certification. Any comments on this would be greatly
> appreciated; being trained to pass the PTS is one thing, and thoroughly
> understanding it is another, IMHO.
>
> Apparently the training will be conducted in a C-172 upgraded to 180hp with
> a CS prop; since I have some (short) time in a Super Decathlon this won't be
> totally new to me. Instrument flying will be new, other than than my brief
> exposure required by the Private program, and I am looking forward to it.
> This is a challenge I really want to master, and any suggestions you all
> might have as concerns beginning training would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Wendy

[Barry]

Here are some comments and suggestions (I'm sure others will disagree with
parts):

The school should use a written syllabus, and you should have a copy. The
training should be broken down into phases, typically:
1. Basic airplane control
2. Basic navigation
3. Approaches and holding
4. Cross-country flights
There might occasionally be good reasons to deviate from the syllabus, but in
general you should be proficient in each phase before moving on to the next.
Beware of an instructor who has you doing ILS approaches on the 2nd lesson.
Doing an IFR cross-country early on can be useful to let you see how things
work, but your role will be more as an observer than as an IFR pilot.

Make sure you have a copy of the Instrument Rating Practical Test Standards
(available at http://afs600.faa.gov/AFS630.htm). Refer to it frequently
during your training, not just at the very end before the checkride.

It's better to do cross-countries with three legs, instead of retracing your
initial route. For example, instead of Houston-Memphis-Houston, do
Houston-Memphis-Little Rock-Houston.

You shouldn't need to do "loads" of short cross-countries. The syllabus I use
has four cross-countries, including the "long" 250 nm one, and together they
take about 10 hours. If you need a lot more, it's probably because you didn't
spend enough time on the earlier phases.

Go to a range of airports, both towered and non-towered.

I think that there's little value in long cross-countries - you don't learn
much droning along at cruise for three hours. The main value is in the flight
planning and dealing with different conditions. If you do decide to do a long
flight, try to get a day when the weather's not uniform along the route, and
pick a route with varied geography. I guess you have to go pretty far from
Houston (and not towards Memphis) to see some mountains.

Barry


> The FBO where I bought the headset- Mercury Flight Systems- seems to have a
> solid, while expensive, approach to the IFR experience. Rather than making
> loads of short XC's, they seem to stress longer ones;
> Houston-Memphis-Houston being one example. Obviously, there will be a lot
> of shorter excursions in the curriculum, but I have to say that the idea of
> flying under an instrument flight plan on major excursions is a challenging
> surely and valuable experience. These people seem honestly concerned with
> making me a proficient IFR pilot rather than simply preparing me for the
> checkride, which is the general impression I got from the operation where I
> obtained my initial certification. Any comments on this would be greatly
> appreciated; being trained to pass the PTS is one thing, and thoroughly
> understanding it is another, IMHO.

[Robert Moore]

"Barry" > wrote
> Here are some comments and suggestions (I'm sure others will
> disagree with parts):

Barry, even with somewhat limited experience, I would have to
agree wholeheartedly with your entire post!!

Bob Moore
ATP CFI USN
PanAm (retired)

[Mick Ruthven]

>These people seem honestly concerned with
>making me a proficient IFR pilot rather than simply preparing me for the
>checkride,...

In my opinion, that's a very important thing. I got my instrument rating
five years ago after a too-long training period, much of which was caused by
my first instructor's view that if I had "done" everything that would be
required on the checkride, then I was OK to go, and of course I simply
wasn't. My second instructor's first words after landing from my first
flight with him were, "You're not a confident instrument pilot". I replied,
"Bingo! We're going to get along fine." We worked until I was a confident,
competent, instrument pilot.

[Wendy]

"Barry" > wrote in message
...
> Here are some comments and suggestions (I'm sure others will disagree with
> parts):

(Very good stuff snipped)

Thanks, Barry- great advice, and I do appreciate it. I just got off the
phone with the FBO and their course structure is much the same as you
suggested. And yes, one has to go a looong way from Houston to find
mountains :)

Wendy

[Kobra]

Cecil,

I have the two Lightspeed Thirty 3G's and they are fantastic! I love the
personal music and cell phone input. I bought a portable CD/MP3 player,
installed a Y adaptor and burned several MP3's for medium to long xc's.
Passengers love it.

You might want to sell the LS 20L on ebay for another Twenty 3G. This way
you AND your passenger can enjoy great music while cruising on a beautiful
VFR flight. It's especially pleasant at night.

The cell phone input is great for getting IFR clearances, but the only
problem is the wires are inconvenient to pull out and hook up. I'm trying
to come up with a way to make it easier but no joy yet.

Kobra


"Cecil E. Chapman" > wrote in message
om...
> Oops... forgot to mention. I'm planning on using the 20L headset for
> passengers. I figure the exceptional noise reduction might be especially
> good for new or first-time passengers - can't help thinking the engine
drone
> contributes to at least, some of their stress.
>
> --
> --
> Good Flights!
>
> Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
> PP-ASEL
>
> "We who fly do so for the love of flying.
> We are alive in the air with this miracle
> that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
>
> - Cecil Day Lewis-
>
> Check out my personal flying adventures: www.bayareapilot.com
>
>

[Dan Luke]

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote:
> If there are any 'fence sitters" on getting the ANR headset I have
> to tell ya to get one!

Several people have reported in these newsgroups that they find ANR very
annoying. Most mysterious.

> The part that surprised me most was how fatiguing that
> engine drone could be over a couple hours of instrument flying
> and how refreshed I felt without that noise in the background
> during my instrument lessons. The way I felt was like night and day.

Ditto. ANR is wonderful, IMO.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[EDR]

In article >, Jeff > wrote:

> Another thing, alot of people wont fly with an instructor after getting their
> rating, personally, if I see some good wicked weather, I will call my
> instructor and see if he wants to fly. My goal is to get experience in all
> kinds of different weather, do all the flying my self, just have him with me
> incase things get out of hand.

One of the things you should learn from obtaining your instrument
rating is determining how to interpret what you see on the computer
screen or what the briefer tells you. Flying off into the grey without
at least seeing a picture is a good way to terminate a flight
prematurely. Are you willing to fly into an area forecast to have
thunderstorms and towering cumulus without any weather detection
equipment on board? If the airspace is busy, don't expect ATC to hold
your hand and guide you through the rough patches. There comes a time
when you have to know when to put it on the ground and get better
information. How dark does it have to get in the middle of the day
before you realize you are in over your head?

> the key to good instrument training is to have a good instructor who is
> experienced in hard IFR and knows what you can fly into safely.

Correct.

[John Roncallo]

Wendy wrote:
> I upgraded from my ridiculously cheap and poorly performing Flightline
> headset to a DC H20-10 in preparation for my IFR training. I haven't flown
> with the DC's yet, but I will Saturday afternoon. My rationale here is
> two-fold in that if I am in need of communicating, it would be a good thing
> to not only have some equipment I can reliably communicate with, but to
> initiate my IFR training at an airport that is controlled (KDWH) rather than
> the admittedly fine uncontrolled airport I initially trained at (KCXO); the
> choice of which will obviously requires a level of conversation surpassing
> simply shooting the breeze.

Is this an Active Noise Reduction ANR headset. I recently purchased a DC
Non-ANR for my helicopter training and found that I like my old $100.00
Aviation Communications AC-200 better for most of my short trip flying.
The problem I have with the DC's is that the are convertible from a
helicopter cable (single jack) to a fixed wing cable (double jack).
While that is a great idea the connection sticks out longer and hits my
shoulder when I turn my head. I dont notice any more clarity over the
cheaper pair but I do notice that the DC's jell filled ear covers wont
bother me as much on long cross country flights. I also like the
individual ear volume adjustments.

> The FBO where I bought the headset- Mercury Flight Systems- seems to have a
> solid, while expensive, approach to the IFR experience. Rather than making
> loads of short XC's, they seem to stress longer ones;
> Houston-Memphis-Houston being one example. Obviously, there will be a lot
> of shorter excursions in the curriculum, but I have to say that the idea of
> flying under an instrument flight plan on major excursions is a challenging
> surely and valuable experience. These people seem honestly concerned with
> making me a proficient IFR pilot rather than simply preparing me for the
> checkride, which is the general impression I got from the operation where I
> obtained my initial certification. Any comments on this would be greatly
> appreciated; being trained to pass the PTS is one thing, and thoroughly
> understanding it is another, IMHO.

KHOU to KMEM, Thats 420 NM each way. Considering re-routing you will
probably be doing over 1000 NM of travel that day. Thats further than
I've ever flown and unless your 172 has long range tanks will most
likely require a fuel stop. And unless you have long range tanks you
will probably require a we-we stop.

I recommend you get the IFR ticket as fast as possible then do trips
like this, or shorter, with an instructor in actual IMC after you get
your ticket. I just flew 4 hours last month to Williamsburg after work
on a IFR flight plane in mostly VMC weather. I was bone tired when I got
there. If I had to fly back the same day, I probably would have fallen
asleep in the plane. And that was only a 313 nm straight line distance.

The reason I say get the ticket as fast as possible is because in most
flight school situations the longer these lessons drag out the more
chances of instructor and aircraft changes you will be exposed to, which
intern drag it out further. Putting extra requirements on the student
like this will only prolong the process. No one will ever stop you from
taking more lessons after you complete your training. I go up with
instructors all the time especially when it is really gusty or hard IFR.
But when I fly with my family I stay within my limits.

> Apparently the training will be conducted in a C-172 upgraded to 180hp with
> a CS prop; since I have some (short) time in a Super Decathlon this won't be
> totally new to me. Instrument flying will be new, other than than my brief
> exposure required by the Private program, and I am looking forward to it.
> This is a challenge I really want to master, and any suggestions you all
> might have as concerns beginning training would be greatly appreciated.
>

The modified C-172 sounds like a more unnecessary costly option. It wont
teach you anything about IFR and it will cost more to operate.

I would seriously consider a more standard approach

> Wendy
>
>

[John Roncallo]

Barry wrote:

> Here are some comments and suggestions (I'm sure others will disagree with
> parts):
>
> The school should use a written syllabus, and you should have a copy. The
> training should be broken down into phases, typically:
> 1. Basic airplane control
> 2. Basic navigation
> 3. Approaches and holding
> 4. Cross-country flights
> There might occasionally be good reasons to deviate from the syllabus, but in
> general you should be proficient in each phase before moving on to the next.
> Beware of an instructor who has you doing ILS approaches on the 2nd lesson.
> Doing an IFR cross-country early on can be useful to let you see how things
> work, but your role will be more as an observer than as an IFR pilot.
>
> Make sure you have a copy of the Instrument Rating Practical Test Standards
> (available at http://afs600.faa.gov/AFS630.htm). Refer to it frequently
> during your training, not just at the very end before the checkride.
>
> It's better to do cross-countries with three legs, instead of retracing your
> initial route. For example, instead of Houston-Memphis-Houston, do
> Houston-Memphis-Little Rock-Houston.
>
> You shouldn't need to do "loads" of short cross-countries. The syllabus I use
> has four cross-countries, including the "long" 250 nm one, and together they
> take about 10 hours. If you need a lot more, it's probably because you didn't
> spend enough time on the earlier phases.
>
> Go to a range of airports, both towered and non-towered.
>
> I think that there's little value in long cross-countries - you don't learn
> much droning along at cruise for three hours. The main value is in the flight
> planning and dealing with different conditions. If you do decide to do a long
> flight, try to get a day when the weather's not uniform along the route, and
> pick a route with varied geography. I guess you have to go pretty far from
> Houston (and not towards Memphis) to see some mountains.
>
> Barry
>
>

This is excellent. I disagree with one thing though. Instead of looking
for a day when the weather is non uniform, get the cross country
requirements done ASAP VMC or IMC. Then when you get your ticket and you
find any of those challenging IMC days call your instructor and go for
it. Anything more than 100 nm legs is pretty much useless especially
since ATC will most likely put you on top. A 25 nm trip into a class
Bravo is much more entertaining.

John Roncallo

[Aloft]

Sounds like you went with the H10-60, whose dome-connector scheme does
indeed involve a longer plug at that end.. With the DC H10-13XL (ANR
headset), the cord swap from single-jack to double-jack is trivial, it
involves only the cord going from the battery pack to the panel. If you're
the type not bothered by the traditionally snug fit of DCs, the H10-13XL is
the best headset out there. I've tried the Bose X since buying my DC, and if
it'd been the other way around (trying the DC after buying the Bose), I'd
have been ****ED at the extra money wasted on the Bose. Yeah, the Bose is
more comfortable but I hate the mike boom and mike audio, and the ANR isn't
any better than the DC's, IMHO.


"John Roncallo" > wrote in message
...

> Is this an Active Noise Reduction ANR headset. I recently purchased a DC
> Non-ANR for my helicopter training and found that I like my old $100.00
> Aviation Communications AC-200 better for most of my short trip flying.
> The problem I have with the DC's is that the are convertible from a
> helicopter cable (single jack) to a fixed wing cable (double jack).
> While that is a great idea the connection sticks out longer and hits my
> shoulder when I turn my head.