While we're talking about Garmin GPS

[Windecks]

On an IFR proficiency flight with my partner the other day, we got into a
little debate about the best way to use the Garmin 430 for ATC position
reporting. He uses the cursor on the map page to point at an airport or
NAVAID, then reads out the distance and (reciprocal) bearing. I go to NRST,
and pick an airport or VOR which have continually updated distance and
bearing. For those 430/530 users out there, which way do you prefer?

Wouldn't it be nice to have a 'Position' button; an easy to reach menu
choice, softkey or button that gives the following configurable readout
(don't display what you don't want):

- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest airport
(22nm NW Reid Hillview KRHV)
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VOR
(10nm SW Mustang FMG or maybe 215 Radial?)
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest NDB
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest intersection
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VFR reporting point
- If within 2nm of any of the above, a message that says "Vicinity Squaw
Valley SWR" e.g.

Punch the button, wait for the frequency to clear, then just read off the
position to our friends with the big screens. Punch the button again and
you go back to the previous display. NRST works just fine for me, but it's
always fun to bitch about your expensive, useful panel toys..

[Ron Natalie]

"Windecks" > wrote in message . ..
> On an IFR proficiency flight with my partner the other day, we got into a
> little debate about the best way to use the Garmin 430 for ATC position
> reporting. He uses the cursor on the map page to point at an airport or
> NAVAID, then reads out the distance and (reciprocal) bearing. I go to NRST,
> and pick an airport or VOR which have continually updated distance and
> bearing. For those 430/530 users out there, which way do you prefer?

For IFR, you should use the reporting points called out on the charts (or
implied by the rules).

For VFR, I use a NRST VOR. On the 195, the NRST FREQ gives you the
closest center frequency as well as telling you the offset to the nearest VOR.

[Jim]

I use NRST. It's easier than etch-a-sketching around to something that I
may or may not have displayed on the map.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"Windecks" > wrote in message
. ..
> On an IFR proficiency flight with my partner the other day, we got into a
> little debate about the best way to use the Garmin 430 for ATC position
> reporting. He uses the cursor on the map page to point at an airport or
> NAVAID, then reads out the distance and (reciprocal) bearing. I go to
NRST,
> and pick an airport or VOR which have continually updated distance and
> bearing. For those 430/530 users out there, which way do you prefer?
>
> Wouldn't it be nice to have a 'Position' button; an easy to reach menu
> choice, softkey or button that gives the following configurable readout
> (don't display what you don't want):
>
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest airport
> (22nm NW Reid Hillview KRHV)
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VOR
> (10nm SW Mustang FMG or maybe 215 Radial?)
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest NDB
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest intersection
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VFR reporting point
> - If within 2nm of any of the above, a message that says "Vicinity Squaw
> Valley SWR" e.g.
>
> Punch the button, wait for the frequency to clear, then just read off the
> position to our friends with the big screens. Punch the button again and
> you go back to the previous display. NRST works just fine for me, but
it's
> always fun to bitch about your expensive, useful panel toys..
>
>

[Teacherjh]

Isn't it just as easy to eyeball the map (with reference to the scale)?

Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[karl gruber]

****Isn't it just as easy to eyeball the map (with reference to the
scale)?****

No.

[Jeff]

If I am not over an intersection, airport or navaid, or close to one, I will
pull up a VOR on my nav to and give DME distance, radial from that VOR as my
position.

For me thats just as easy or easier then flipping through screens on the 430. I
always have a vor on my nav 2 anyways, just incase the 430 has a problem.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


Windecks wrote:

> On an IFR proficiency flight with my partner the other day, we got into a
> little debate about the best way to use the Garmin 430 for ATC position
> reporting. He uses the cursor on the map page to point at an airport or
> NAVAID, then reads out the distance and (reciprocal) bearing. I go to NRST,
> and pick an airport or VOR which have continually updated distance and
> bearing. For those 430/530 users out there, which way do you prefer?
>
> Wouldn't it be nice to have a 'Position' button; an easy to reach menu
> choice, softkey or button that gives the following configurable readout
> (don't display what you don't want):
>
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest airport
> (22nm NW Reid Hillview KRHV)
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VOR
> (10nm SW Mustang FMG or maybe 215 Radial?)
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest NDB
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest intersection
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VFR reporting point
> - If within 2nm of any of the above, a message that says "Vicinity Squaw
> Valley SWR" e.g.
>
> Punch the button, wait for the frequency to clear, then just read off the
> position to our friends with the big screens. Punch the button again and
> you go back to the previous display. NRST works just fine for me, but it's
> always fun to bitch about your expensive, useful panel toys..

[[email protected]]

I presume you mean non-radar full position reports. That is where having the
route as a flight plan would be quite useful.


Windecks wrote:

> On an IFR proficiency flight with my partner the other day, we got into a
> little debate about the best way to use the Garmin 430 for ATC position
> reporting. He uses the cursor on the map page to point at an airport or
> NAVAID, then reads out the distance and (reciprocal) bearing. I go to NRST,
> and pick an airport or VOR which have continually updated distance and
> bearing. For those 430/530 users out there, which way do you prefer?
>
> Wouldn't it be nice to have a 'Position' button; an easy to reach menu
> choice, softkey or button that gives the following configurable readout
> (don't display what you don't want):
>
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest airport
> (22nm NW Reid Hillview KRHV)
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VOR
> (10nm SW Mustang FMG or maybe 215 Radial?)
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest NDB
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest intersection
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VFR reporting point
> - If within 2nm of any of the above, a message that says "Vicinity Squaw
> Valley SWR" e.g.
>
> Punch the button, wait for the frequency to clear, then just read off the
> position to our friends with the big screens. Punch the button again and
> you go back to the previous display. NRST works just fine for me, but it's
> always fun to bitch about your expensive, useful panel toys..

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
...
>
> I presume you mean non-radar full position reports. That is where having
the
> route as a flight plan would be quite useful.
>

In that case you'd just report the compulsory reporting points and any
non-compulsory reporting points as instructed by ATC as you encountered
them.

[Windecks]

For non-radar flight plans, sure, you use the reporting points on your
flight plan and those requested by ATC, and they're usually already entered
on the FPL page.

I often launch VFR from an uncontrolled field and then ask for flight
following. Also, my home field is Class C and I need to get a squawk to
approach and land, even if VFR. These requests usualy comes from some
random point enroute, hence the position requirement. Also, it's useful
when asking for a popup IFR clearance, which doesn't happen for me all that
much.

So, a question for the controller types out there--what do you want to hear
on these requests? Type, equipment, altitude? Position in relation to the
nearest VOR? I usually give my callsign, position from the closest VOR, and
equipment if it's an IFR request. They then give me a squawk and ask for an
ident.


> wrote in message
...
> I presume you mean non-radar full position reports. That is where having
the
> route as a flight plan would be quite useful.
>
>
> Windecks wrote:
>
> > On an IFR proficiency flight with my partner the other day, we got into
a
> > little debate about the best way to use the Garmin 430 for ATC position
> > reporting. He uses the cursor on the map page to point at an airport or
> > NAVAID, then reads out the distance and (reciprocal) bearing. I go to
NRST,
> > and pick an airport or VOR which have continually updated distance and
> > bearing. For those 430/530 users out there, which way do you prefer?
> >
> > Wouldn't it be nice to have a 'Position' button; an easy to reach menu
> > choice, softkey or button that gives the following configurable readout
> > (don't display what you don't want):
> >
> > - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest airport
> > (22nm NW Reid Hillview KRHV)
> > - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VOR
> > (10nm SW Mustang FMG or maybe 215 Radial?)
> > - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest NDB
> > - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest intersection
> > - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VFR reporting point
> > - If within 2nm of any of the above, a message that says "Vicinity Squaw
> > Valley SWR" e.g.
> >
> > Punch the button, wait for the frequency to clear, then just read off
the
> > position to our friends with the big screens. Punch the button again
and
> > you go back to the previous display. NRST works just fine for me, but
it's
> > always fun to bitch about your expensive, useful panel toys..
>

[paul k. sanchez]

>On an IFR proficiency flight with my partner the other day, we got into a
little debate about the best way to use the Garmin 430 for ATC position
reporting. He uses the cursor on the map page to point at an airport or
NAVAID, then reads out the distance and (reciprocal) bearing. I go to NRST,
and pick an airport or VOR which have continually updated distance and bearing.
For those 430/530 users out there, which way do you prefer?
>
>Wouldn't it be nice to have a 'Position' button; an easy to reach menu choice,
softkey or button that gives the following configurable readout (don't display
what you don't want):
>
>- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest airport (22nm NW Reid
Hillview KRHV)
>- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VOR (10nm SW Mustang FMG or
maybe 215 Radial?)
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest NDB
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest intersection
- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VFR reporting point
- If within 2nm of any of the above, a message that says "Vicinity Squaw Valley
SWR" e.g.
>
>Punch the button, wait for the frequency to clear, then just read off the
position to our friends with the big screens. Punch the button again and you
go back to the previous display. NRST works just fine for me, but it's always
fun to bitch about your expensive, useful panel toys..
>
>

I'm a little bit confused here. NAV page 4 of the Garmin 430 is a position page
that can be configured to show nearest VOR, radial, distance. In fact it will
even show a TACAN if it is the nearest NAVAID. It also shows track, ground
speed, calculated altitude, lattitude/longitude.

To configure it press MENU, select "change fields". Move the cursor to the APT
field, change it to VOR.

Perhaps there is material that your Garmin 430 instructor neglected to include
in his training syllabus with you. How long of a training course did you have
on the Garmin 430?

What were you using NAV page 4 for beforehand?


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax

[Windecks]

My CFII game me an extensive informal course on the 430 over 3 months of
instruction, but neglected to show me the feature you mentioned on NAV page
4. Up 'til now I only used NAV pages 1-3 (we get the GPS altitude readout on
an MX20) but now that I know that the position feature is there, it'll get a
workout. Thanks!!

Makes me wonder what else is there that I should know about.. Hmmm, looks
like it's time to actually read the manual...


"paul k. sanchez" > wrote in message
...
> >On an IFR proficiency flight with my partner the other day, we got into a
> little debate about the best way to use the Garmin 430 for ATC position
> reporting. He uses the cursor on the map page to point at an airport or
> NAVAID, then reads out the distance and (reciprocal) bearing. I go to
NRST,
> and pick an airport or VOR which have continually updated distance and
bearing.
> For those 430/530 users out there, which way do you prefer?
> >
> >Wouldn't it be nice to have a 'Position' button; an easy to reach menu
choice,
> softkey or button that gives the following configurable readout (don't
display
> what you don't want):
> >
> >- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest airport (22nm NW Reid
> Hillview KRHV)
> >- Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VOR (10nm SW Mustang FMG
or
> maybe 215 Radial?)
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest NDB
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest intersection
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VFR reporting point
> - If within 2nm of any of the above, a message that says "Vicinity Squaw
Valley
> SWR" e.g.
> >
> >Punch the button, wait for the frequency to clear, then just read off the
> position to our friends with the big screens. Punch the button again and
you
> go back to the previous display. NRST works just fine for me, but it's
always
> fun to bitch about your expensive, useful panel toys..
> >
> >
>
> I'm a little bit confused here. NAV page 4 of the Garmin 430 is a position
page
> that can be configured to show nearest VOR, radial, distance. In fact it
will
> even show a TACAN if it is the nearest NAVAID. It also shows track, ground
> speed, calculated altitude, lattitude/longitude.
>
> To configure it press MENU, select "change fields". Move the cursor to the
APT
> field, change it to VOR.
>
> Perhaps there is material that your Garmin 430 instructor neglected to
include
> in his training syllabus with you. How long of a training course did you
have
> on the Garmin 430?
>
> What were you using NAV page 4 for beforehand?
>
>
> paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
> on eagles' wings
> 2011 south perimeter road, suite g
> fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
> 305-389-1742 wireless
> 954-776-0527 fax
> 954-345-4276 home/fax
>

[paul k. sanchez]

>My CFII game me an extensive informal course on the 430 over 3 months of
instruction, but neglected to show me the feature you mentioned on NAV page 4.
Up 'til now I only used NAV pages 1-3 (we get the GPS altitude readout on an
MX20) but now that I know that the position feature is there, it'll get a
workout. Thanks!!
>
>Makes me wonder what else is there that I should know about.. Hmmm, looks
like it's time to actually read the manual...
>

Perhaps you categorized it much better than I ever could, an "informal" course
that perhaps was not as effective as you needed it to be. My clients spend 3 to
5 days with me at their location in their aircraft and with the software in
their aircraft.

I sincerely hope that your CFII was not as neglegent in the VNAV programming,
runway extension, motion control without gyros using the map, auto-zooming,
etc.

I am still surprised at how little proficiency most owner operators have in the
use of their equipment. Your statement that your CFII never showed you the VOR
position page clarifies what his own proficiency level is.

I hope you are able to learn what you need in your Garmin 430, and of course if
you can find someone within your budget that would even be better.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax

[Nathan Young]

"Windecks" > wrote in message >...
> On an IFR proficiency flight with my partner the other day, we got into a
> little debate about the best way to use the Garmin 430 for ATC position
> reporting. He uses the cursor on the map page to point at an airport or
> NAVAID, then reads out the distance and (reciprocal) bearing. I go to NRST,
> and pick an airport or VOR which have continually updated distance and
> bearing. For those 430/530 users out there, which way do you prefer?
>
> Wouldn't it be nice to have a 'Position' button; an easy to reach menu
> choice, softkey or button that gives the following configurable readout
> (don't display what you don't want):
>
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest airport
> (22nm NW Reid Hillview KRHV)
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VOR
> (10nm SW Mustang FMG or maybe 215 Radial?)
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest NDB
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest intersection
> - Distance and reciprocal bearing to the nearest VFR reporting point
> - If within 2nm of any of the above, a message that says "Vicinity Squaw
> Valley SWR" e.g.
>
> Punch the button, wait for the frequency to clear, then just read off the
> position to our friends with the big screens. Punch the button again and
> you go back to the previous display. NRST works just fine for me, but it's
> always fun to bitch about your expensive, useful panel toys..

Not a panel mount, but on my 295, I hit NRST, and then select VOR to
get bearing and range to a the nearest VORs.

-Nathan

[Windecks]

Actually, he went through every single page in the 430 in detail, but either
didn't stress the position twiddle, or I simply forgot how to use it. Most
users don't employ every feature, and that doesn't necessarily mean a lack
of proficiency or under-utilization of the box. In this specific case, the
NRST function works great, with the same number of knob clicks.

FYI, this CFII has about 12,000 hours with at least 2/3 of that instruction
given. He's trained 3 generations of instructors on the west coast using
virtually every NAV gizmo made for GA, and is universally respected and
regarded as one of the best around. My sincere hope your is that your
inference about proficiency or lack thereof is limited to this one anecdotal
oversight.


> Perhaps you categorized it much better than I ever could, an "informal"
course
> that perhaps was not as effective as you needed it to be. My clients spend
3 to
> 5 days with me at their location in their aircraft and with the software
in
> their aircraft.
>
> I sincerely hope that your CFII was not as neglegent in the VNAV
programming,
> runway extension, motion control without gyros using the map,
auto-zooming,
> etc.
>
> I am still surprised at how little proficiency most owner operators have
in the
> use of their equipment. Your statement that your CFII never showed you the
VOR
> position page clarifies what his own proficiency level is.
>
> I hope you are able to learn what you need in your Garmin 430, and of
course if
> you can find someone within your budget that would even be better.
>
>
> paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
> on eagles' wings
> 2011 south perimeter road, suite g
> fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
> 305-389-1742 wireless
> 954-776-0527 fax
> 954-345-4276 home/fax
>

[[email protected]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I presume you mean non-radar full position reports. That is where having
> the
> > route as a flight plan would be quite useful.
> >
>
> In that case you'd just report the compulsory reporting points and any
> non-compulsory reporting points as instructed by ATC as you encountered
> them.

And, that is where having the route as a flight plan loaded into the Garmin
would be useful.

[[email protected]]

The flight plan page works just fine, and covers the entire route.

Windecks wrote:

> Actually, he went through every single page in the 430 in detail, but either
> didn't stress the position twiddle, or I simply forgot how to use it. Most
> users don't employ every feature, and that doesn't necessarily mean a lack
> of proficiency or under-utilization of the box. In this specific case, the
> NRST function works great, with the same number of knob clicks.
>
> FYI, this CFII has about 12,000 hours with at least 2/3 of that instruction
> given. He's trained 3 generations of instructors on the west coast using
> virtually every NAV gizmo made for GA, and is universally respected and
> regarded as one of the best around. My sincere hope your is that your
> inference about proficiency or lack thereof is limited to this one anecdotal
> oversight.
>
> > Perhaps you categorized it much better than I ever could, an "informal"
> course
> > that perhaps was not as effective as you needed it to be. My clients spend
> 3 to
> > 5 days with me at their location in their aircraft and with the software
> in
> > their aircraft.
> >
> > I sincerely hope that your CFII was not as neglegent in the VNAV
> programming,
> > runway extension, motion control without gyros using the map,
> auto-zooming,
> > etc.
> >
> > I am still surprised at how little proficiency most owner operators have
> in the
> > use of their equipment. Your statement that your CFII never showed you the
> VOR
> > position page clarifies what his own proficiency level is.
> >
> > I hope you are able to learn what you need in your Garmin 430, and of
> course if
> > you can find someone within your budget that would even be better.
> >
> >
> > paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
> > on eagles' wings
> > 2011 south perimeter road, suite g
> > fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
> > 305-389-1742 wireless
> > 954-776-0527 fax
> > 954-345-4276 home/fax
> >

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
...
>
> And, that is where having the route as a flight plan loaded into the
Garmin
> would be useful.
>

Since all the necessary information is provided by the more traditional nav
gear, just how is it useful to load the flight plan into the Garmin?

[[email protected]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > And, that is where having the route as a flight plan loaded into the
> Garmin
> > would be useful.
> >
>
> Since all the necessary information is provided by the more traditional nav
> gear, just how is it useful to load the flight plan into the Garmin?

It provides an electronic "how goes it" log and ensures you fly legs rather
than direct-to. When the new "G" capstone routes in SE Alaska fire up, there
won't be any underlying VOR route structure, so it will become even more useful
to have a flight plan loaded.

[paul k. sanchez]

>Actually, he went through every single page in the 430 in detail, but either
didn't stress the position twiddle, or I simply forgot how to use it. Most
users don't employ every feature, and that doesn't necessarily mean a lack of
proficiency or under-utilization of the box. In this specific case, the NRST
function works great, with the same number of knob clicks.
>
>FYI, this CFII has about 12,000 hours with at least 2/3 of that instruction
given. He's trained 3 generations of instructors on the west coast using
virtually every NAV gizmo made for GA, and is universally respected and
regarded as one of the best around. My sincere hope your is that your
inference about proficiency or lack thereof is limited to this one anecdotal
oversight.
>

I would suggest recounting the number of clicks. To go from NAV page 2 to NRST
page 4 requires 3 clicks of large knob (NAV-WPT-AUX-NRST), and then of course
from NRST page 1 to the correct VOR page would require 3 additional clicks of
the small knob (NRST airport-NDB-intersection-VOR). I count 6 clicks of large
and small knob using your prefered method, vs 2 of the small knob going from
NAV2 to NAV4 using my suggestion. Or did I miss something?

And of course I sincerely hope that you are indeed quite happy with the Garmin
430 training. Hopefully you got all that you wanted (and even more importantly
what you needed).


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax

[Windecks]

With 2 other moving maps available my 430 is usally set to NAV 1 page. If
the VOR NRST has been previously selected it's 3 clicks to either NAV 4 or
VOR NRST. If it hasn't then it's 3 and 6 respectively.

Thanks again for your tips and concern. The 430 is a complex piece of gear
that indeed requires good training and ongoing practice to use effectively.
While I'm comfortable with it, with only 100 or so hours of actual usage in
my own plane I'm still learning and improving my technique.

A newly minted PP-ASEL friend just bought a Cherokee 6 he uses to fly his
family around, and has installed dual 430s. It's painful to watch him
struggle with the units, with 10-15+ seconds of heads-down time not unusual
while he tries to use basic features. In addition to giving some pointers I
constantly urge him to get some training software or take a course, but so
far with no success. You can lead a horse to water but.....


> I would suggest recounting the number of clicks. To go from NAV page 2 to
NRST
> page 4 requires 3 clicks of large knob (NAV-WPT-AUX-NRST), and then of
course
> from NRST page 1 to the correct VOR page would require 3 additional clicks
of
> the small knob (NRST airport-NDB-intersection-VOR). I count 6 clicks of
large
> and small knob using your prefered method, vs 2 of the small knob going
from
> NAV2 to NAV4 using my suggestion. Or did I miss something?
>
> And of course I sincerely hope that you are indeed quite happy with the
Garmin
> 430 training. Hopefully you got all that you wanted (and even more
importantly
> what you needed).
>
>
> paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
> on eagles' wings
> 2011 south perimeter road, suite g
> fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
> 305-389-1742 wireless
> 954-776-0527 fax
> 954-345-4276 home/fax
>

[Andrew Gideon]

Ron Natalie wrote:

> For IFR, you should use the reporting points called out on the charts (or
> implied by the rules).

For IFR, you've a flight plan programmed, right? That means you've your
distance to your next waypoint on your map (unless you swap out that
number; the Garmin leaves room for only four values as I recall).

You can have your desired track to the next waypoint too, but you know that
anyway as you're keeping that number - or something like that number
balanced by wind - in your HI.

Why isn't that enough for a position report if you're between waypoints?
That is, if you're 20 miles from the SAX VOR flying a course of 080, you're
20 miles out on the SAX R260.

Actually...I miss some things from the planes I used to rent. For one, the
NAV/COMs had the ability to display the TO/FROM bearing right on the
NAV/COM panel. I liked that. A lot. For intercept purposes, I preferred
that to the CDI. It made knowing one's location relative a VOR simpler; no
CDI twisting and hunting.

More, the MFD installed with the KLN GPS had a little data field (in the
lower left, maybe) which always had the "best" (for some definition)
"location report". All you had to do was read that to ATC.

- Andrew

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
...
>
> It provides an electronic "how goes it" log and ensures you fly legs
> rather than direct-to.
>

As does the more traditional nav gear. So nothing is gained by having the
route as a flight plan loaded into the Garmin.

[paul k. sanchez]

>For IFR, you've a flight plan programmed, right? That means you've your
>distance to your next waypoint on your map (unless you swap out that number;
the Garmin leaves room for only four values as I recall).
>
>You can have your desired track to the next waypoint too, but you know that
anyway as you're keeping that number - or something like that number balanced
by wind - in your HI.
>
>Why isn't that enough for a position report if you're between waypoints? That
is, if you're 20 miles from the SAX VOR flying a course of 080, you're 20 miles
out on the SAX R260.
>
>Actually...I miss some things from the planes I used to rent. For one, the
NAV/COMs had the ability to display the TO/FROM bearing right on the NAV/COM
panel. I liked that. A lot. For intercept purposes, I preferred that to the
CDI. It made knowing one's location relative a VOR simpler; no CDI twisting
and hunting.
>
>More, the MFD installed with the KLN GPS had a little data field (in the lower
left, maybe) which always had the "best" (for some definition) "location
report". All you had to do was read that to ATC.
>
> - Andrew


Andrew:
Product is the KMD150, 550, and 850 MFD. Data field was in the lower right
corner, and had to be configured for the "NRST VOR" rather than the "NRST
WAYPOINT". Also keep in mind that the distance would be expressed in NM, but
the direction would be expressed as cardinal, i.e. NNW 15.7 nm DCA vortac. Plus
it would not pull up the nearest TACAN even if that was the closest navaid.

It would have been more convenient if Honeywell would allow you to specify an
easier format such as DCA 338 15.7 nm. Not all controllers can work with a
"north by northwest". They confuse it with some Cary Grant & Eve Marie Saint
movie that Alfred Hitchcock made.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax

[Andrew Gideon]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> It provides an electronic "how goes it" log and ensures you fly legs
>> rather than direct-to.
>>
>
> As does the more traditional nav gear. So nothing is gained by having the
> route as a flight plan loaded into the Garmin.

When you're *at* a waypoint, it shouldn't make a difference by which means
you've identified the waypoint. You're there. That's what you report.

As I understand this conversation, it's when you're not at a way point that
this discussion rears its head.

However, that does beg the question: on an IFR flight, when would you report
your position while not at a waypoint? I suppose ATC might ask for some
unknown reason (RADAR failure, and shifting into non-RADAR mode, perhaps?),
but I've never experienced that myself.

- Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

paul k. sanchez wrote:

> It would have been more convenient if Honeywell would allow you to specify
> an easier format such as DCA 338 15.7 nm. Not all controllers can work
> with a "north by northwest". They confuse it with some Cary Grant & Eve
> Marie Saint movie that Alfred Hitchcock made.

I never had a problem using that style of reporting. I'd guess it was
enough information that they knew where to look on their RADARs for my
squawk.

I do wonder, though, why this style was chosen instead of a bearing. As a
programmer, I can see that converting the bearing to a verbal and
approximate description is a little extra work. As someone familiar with
navigation, I see it represents a loss of detail.

So...why do it?

Anyway, it's been months since I've used those airplanes. I'm now in a club
which flys with Garmins, so - even though I do miss aspects of those
rentals - what those rentals did is not too important to me anymore.

- Andrew

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
gonline.com...
>
> When you're *at* a waypoint, it shouldn't make a difference by which means
> you've identified the waypoint. You're there. That's what you report.
>
> As I understand this conversation, it's when you're not at a way point
that
> this discussion rears its head.
>
> However, that does beg the question: on an IFR flight, when would you
report
> your position while not at a waypoint? I suppose ATC might ask for some
> unknown reason (RADAR failure, and shifting into non-RADAR mode,
perhaps?),
> but I've never experienced that myself.
>

We're on an airway in a nonradar environment. The GPS provides no more
information than the more traditional nav gear.

[Goldenam]

There is a page in the "Nav" set that will do what you want. It is the 4th page
or "Position" page. It can be set to give you your position from the nearest
apt, VOR, NDB or waypoint. I use it set to give me a position from the nearest
VOR. It will show radial and distance. I mostly fly in areas that do not
require position reports, but I use the feature when contacting Fligh****ch and
giving my position for in flight weather updates.

Alan
PP-SEL-IA
Bonanza N5081E

[Andrew Gideon]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

> We're on an airway in a nonradar environment. The GPS provides no more
> information than the more traditional nav gear.

We are? <Looks around> I don't think so.

The OP didn't state this, so I'm not sure from where you picked it up.
Looking at the original posting, there was no context provided as to why a
position report was being given. He or she did mention "IFR proficiency
flight", but perhaps they were flying VFR with the left-seater under the
hood.

If one were on an IFR flight plan, RADAR or not, I cannot see the need
expressed by the original poster. Reports are at waypoints, and - however
one knows this - one is *at* the waypoint. What to report is therefore
pretty obvious.

You do know that, right?

So, I'm guessing that he or she was referring to VFR. But I don't pretend
to be omniscient, so I'll have to leave it at "I don't know". Care to try
it yourself?

- Andrew

[Jim]

Could be in climb out in a non radar environment upon initial call up to
ATC. We have to do it all the time when we open our flight plan with FSS on
the ground, take off from STE and then call ATC. Because radar doesn't pick
us up until about 3500MSL, they usually give us a squawk code and ask for a
position report. At that time we are usually neither on an airway or on an
airway and may be filled Direct /G. Granted, the original post did not
specify any of these conditions, it's just one instance that I've
experienced several times and the NRST page makes it handy.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply


"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
online.com...
> Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>
> > We're on an airway in a nonradar environment. The GPS provides no more
> > information than the more traditional nav gear.
>
> We are? <Looks around> I don't think so.
>
> The OP didn't state this, so I'm not sure from where you picked it up.
> Looking at the original posting, there was no context provided as to why a
> position report was being given. He or she did mention "IFR proficiency
> flight", but perhaps they were flying VFR with the left-seater under the
> hood.
>
> If one were on an IFR flight plan, RADAR or not, I cannot see the need
> expressed by the original poster. Reports are at waypoints, and - however
> one knows this - one is *at* the waypoint. What to report is therefore
> pretty obvious.
>
> You do know that, right?
>
> So, I'm guessing that he or she was referring to VFR. But I don't pretend
> to be omniscient, so I'll have to leave it at "I don't know". Care to try
> it yourself?
>
> - Andrew
>

[Jeff]

well, I took it he was not on an IFR flight plan at the time of needing to
give his position, that being said, he could launch then pick up the clearence
in the air then would need to be able to give his position.

Jeff

Andrew Gideon wrote:

>
> If one were on an IFR flight plan, RADAR or not, I cannot see the need
> expressed by the original poster. Reports are at waypoints, and - however
> one knows this - one is *at* the waypoint. What to report is therefore
> pretty obvious.
>
> You do know that, right?
>
> So, I'm guessing that he or she was referring to VFR. But I don't pretend
> to be omniscient, so I'll have to leave it at "I don't know". Care to try
> it yourself?
>
> - Andrew

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
online.com...
>
> We are?
>

Yup.


>
> <Looks around> I don't think so.
>

You'd probably think differently if you had bothered to read the entire
thread before posting. Backtrack a few messages and you'll find this posted
by Airperson on 11/25:

"I presume you mean non-radar full position reports. That is where having
the
route as a flight plan would be quite useful."


>
> The OP didn't state this, so I'm not sure from where you picked it up.
> Looking at the original posting, there was no context provided as to why a
> position report was being given. He or she did mention "IFR proficiency
> flight", but perhaps they were flying VFR with the left-seater under the
> hood.
>
> If one were on an IFR flight plan, RADAR or not, I cannot see the need
> expressed by the original poster. Reports are at waypoints, and - however
> one knows this - one is *at* the waypoint. What to report is therefore
> pretty obvious.
>
> You do know that, right?
>

Oh, I know all about it.


>
> So, I'm guessing that he or she was referring to VFR. But I don't pretend
> to be omniscient, so I'll have to leave it at "I don't know". Care to try
> it yourself?
>

Read all of the messages and I think it will become clear to you.

[Andrew Gideon]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

> You'd probably think differently if you had bothered to read the entire
> thread before posting. Backtrack a few messages and you'll find this
> posted by Airperson on 11/25:
>
> "I presume you mean non-radar full position reports. That is where having
> the
> route as a flight plan would be quite useful."

Ah yes. And "presume" means "I'm sure I know what the OP meant".

- Andrew