RFH: Ottawa (CYOW) - Philadelphia (KPHL)

[David Megginson]

I'll be flying from Ottawa to Philadelphia next weekend for a week-long
conference, and would be grateful for hints and information from people
familiar with the U.S. portion of the route.

I couldn't find any preferred low-level routing in Canadian or U.S. sources
-- I also tried Syracuse to Philadelphia -- so I've decided on a fairly
simple (to file) routing:

CYOW DEP YSH V145 ART V29 PTW ARR KPHL

Here's the full route:

CYOW Ottawa Intl Airport
YSH Smith Falls NDB
ART Watertown VOR
SYR Syracuse VOR
CFB Binghamton VOR
LVZ Wilkes-Barre VOR
ETX East Texas VOR
PTW Pottstown VOR
KPHL Philadelphia Intl Airport

Here are my questions:

1. Am I likely to get this routing if I file it? Perhaps someone familiar
with the U.S. portion (say, Syracuse to Philadelphia) can comment.

2. I'd prefer to land KPHL 26 for Atlantic Aviation, winds permitting. Is
it easy to get the ILS 26 approach? Once I'm in the Philly Approach area,
how will they be likely to route or vector me onto the approach? How do
they normally handle low-level, slow (Cherokee) IFR arrivals from the north?

3. Atlantic Aviation gets glowing reviews on AirNav.com. Any extra hints or
advice? Can I get tie-downs, or am I stuck with chocks?

4. How flexible is customs and immigration in Philly? Are they easy to work
with? I can always land and clear U.S. customs at Watertown or Syracuse if
Philadelphia is going to be a pain.

5. Any special issues with ATS enroute?

6. Anything I haven't thought of asking?

Thank you all in advance for any help. Despite the occasional flamewar, I
find that this newsground has the most useful content of any of the
rec.aviation groups.


All the best,


David

p.s. If you want to reply directly, use "david" at "megginson" dot "com".

[Jay Somerset]

See inline responses, below...

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:09:26 GMT, David Megginson >
wrote:

> I'll be flying from Ottawa to Philadelphia next weekend for a week-long
> conference, and would be grateful for hints and information from people
> familiar with the U.S. portion of the route.
>
> I couldn't find any preferred low-level routing in Canadian or U.S. sources
> -- I also tried Syracuse to Philadelphia -- so I've decided on a fairly
> simple (to file) routing:
>
> CYOW DEP YSH V145 ART V29 PTW ARR KPHL
>
> Here's the full route:
>
> CYOW Ottawa Intl Airport
> YSH Smith Falls NDB
> ART Watertown VOR
> SYR Syracuse VOR
> CFB Binghamton VOR
> LVZ Wilkes-Barre VOR
> ETX East Texas VOR
> PTW Pottstown VOR
> KPHL Philadelphia Intl Airport
>
> Here are my questions:
>
> 1. Am I likely to get this routing if I file it? Perhaps someone familiar
> with the U.S. portion (say, Syracuse to Philadelphia) can comment.
Kind of unpredictable. File it that way if you want, but I would suggest
clearing US Customs close to the border (see below).
>
> 2. I'd prefer to land KPHL 26 for Atlantic Aviation, winds permitting. Is
> it easy to get the ILS 26 approach? Once I'm in the Philly Approach area,
> how will they be likely to route or vector me onto the approach? How do
> they normally handle low-level, slow (Cherokee) IFR arrivals from the north?
You will be vectored, almost certainly. They will probably have defined
landing and takeoff runways (listen to ATIS in advance). You can always ask
for an exception, but it'll probably delay your landing.

>
> 3. Atlantic Aviation gets glowing reviews on AirNav.com. Any extra hints or
> advice? Can I get tie-downs, or am I stuck with chocks?
>
> 4. How flexible is customs and immigration in Philly? Are they easy to work
> with? I can always land and clear U.S. customs at Watertown or Syracuse if
> Philadelphia is going to be a pain.
My suggestion is to clear in Syracuse or Watertown. If the customs guy is
on-site in watrerown, do it there -- if he has to drive out to the airport,
do it in Syracuse. Waiting until you get to Plilly is dangerous, as an
unexpected diversion (weather, engine trouble, or just a too-full bladder)
will cause you all sorts of grief if you are expected at PHL.

Also, do not rely on ADCUS -- phone the local Customs number for whichever
airport you finally select.

>
> 5. Any special issues with ATS enroute?
Should be straigtforward.

>
> 6. Anything I haven't thought of asking?
Not offhand -- I assume that you have current charts and airport info
(AF/D), and approach plates if you are filing IFR.

>
> Thank you all in advance for any help. Despite the occasional flamewar, I
> find that this newsground has the most useful content of any of the
> rec.aviation groups.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> David
>
> p.s. If you want to reply directly, use "david" at "megginson" dot "com".

[David Megginson]

Jay Somerset wrote:

> You will be vectored, almost certainly. They will probably have defined
> landing and takeoff runways (listen to ATIS in advance). You can always ask
> for an exception, but it'll probably delay your landing.

From the airport diagram of KPHL, I guessed that it might be a little like
my home airport, Ottawa. Ottawa usually has two preferred runways: one in
the north field (GA) and one in the south field (anyone, but especially
transport). Philly seems to have a well-defined east field with runway
08/26 and the FBO out of the way of the rest of the airport.

>>4. How flexible is customs and immigration in Philly? Are they easy to work
>>with? I can always land and clear U.S. customs at Watertown or Syracuse if
>>Philadelphia is going to be a pain.
>
> My suggestion is to clear in Syracuse or Watertown. If the customs guy is
> on-site in watrerown, do it there -- if he has to drive out to the airport,
> do it in Syracuse. Waiting until you get to Plilly is dangerous, as an
> unexpected diversion (weather, engine trouble, or just a too-full bladder)
> will cause you all sorts of grief if you are expected at PHL.

That's what I'm wondering about. The last time I tried clearing early, it
added an hour and a half to my trip. I've heard about the $5000 fines, but
I'm curious about how it works out in practices. Last time, when I was
stuck waiting, in Massena, there was a Learjet full of Mexican racing fans
who were two hours late (without notice or a good excuse), and they got
nothing worse than a tongue-lashing.

> Also, do not rely on ADCUS -- phone the local Customs number for whichever
> airport you finally select.

Thanks -- COPA's really drilled that one into our heads recently.

> Not offhand -- I assume that you have current charts and airport info
> (AF/D), and approach plates if you are filing IFR.

Yep -- a big bundle at my local map store.

Thanks for the info.


All the best,


David

[EDR]

In article
ogers.com>, David
Megginson > wrote:

> Here are my questions:
>
> 1. Am I likely to get this routing if I file it? Perhaps someone familiar
> with the U.S. portion (say, Syracuse to Philadelphia) can comment.
>
> 2. I'd prefer to land KPHL 26 for Atlantic Aviation, winds permitting. Is
> it easy to get the ILS 26 approach? Once I'm in the Philly Approach area,
> how will they be likely to route or vector me onto the approach? How do
> they normally handle low-level, slow (Cherokee) IFR arrivals from the north?
>
> 3. Atlantic Aviation gets glowing reviews on AirNav.com. Any extra hints or
> advice? Can I get tie-downs, or am I stuck with chocks?

Call or email them directly. Make a reservation. Ask about heated
hangar space and cost to put the plane inside the night before
departure. In the event the snow and ice begin, you will not be last on
the list by calling at the last minute. Get the name of the person you
talk to and log the date and time. Take it with you on your trip.

> 4. How flexible is customs and immigration in Philly? Are they easy to work
> with? I can always land and clear U.S. customs at Watertown or Syracuse if
> Philadelphia is going to be a pain.

Call PHL Customs directly. These are little feifdoms, they have their
own "local" rules. Be sure to ask for a badge number and or initials of
each person you talk to and log the date and time. Keep it with your
flight gear.

> 5. Any special issues with ATS enroute?
>
> 6. Anything I haven't thought of asking?

[David Megginson]

EDR wrote:

> Call or email them directly. Make a reservation. Ask about heated
> hangar space and cost to put the plane inside the night before
> departure. In the event the snow and ice begin, you will not be last on
> the list by calling at the last minute. Get the name of the person you
> talk to and log the date and time. Take it with you on your trip.

Thanks -- that's good advice. I keep my plane outside with full covers
(cowl, canopy, wings, and stabilator) so snow and ice are rarely much of a
problem, but it would still be nice to preflight in a warm hangar at the end
of the week.

>>4. How flexible is customs and immigration in Philly? Are they easy to work
>>with? I can always land and clear U.S. customs at Watertown or Syracuse if
>>Philadelphia is going to be a pain.
>
> Call PHL Customs directly. These are little feifdoms, they have their
> own "local" rules. Be sure to ask for a badge number and or initials of
> each person you talk to and log the date and time. Keep it with your
> flight gear.

Thanks -- I'll do that today, and will call again on the day of departure to
arrange a time.


All the best,


David

[EDR]

In article ers.com>,
David Megginson > wrote:

> >>4. How flexible is customs and immigration in Philly? Are they easy to
> >>work
> >>with? I can always land and clear U.S. customs at Watertown or Syracuse if
> >>Philadelphia is going to be a pain.
> >
> > Call PHL Customs directly. These are little feifdoms, they have their
> > own "local" rules. Be sure to ask for a badge number and or initials of
> > each person you talk to and log the date and time. Keep it with your
> > flight gear.
>
> Thanks -- I'll do that today, and will call again on the day of departure to
> arrange a time.

The last thing I do, after receiving my clearnance on the handheld and
before starting the engine, is call the destination customs office and
give them an updated time of arrival.

[Dave Butler]

David Megginson wrote:

> 2. I'd prefer to land KPHL 26 for Atlantic Aviation, winds permitting.
> Is it easy to get the ILS 26 approach? Once I'm in the Philly Approach
> area, how will they be likely to route or vector me onto the approach?
> How do they normally handle low-level, slow (Cherokee) IFR arrivals from
> the north?

I've been into PHL in a Cherokee, it was no problem. I'd suggest just taking
whatever runway they assign (safety permitting). They seemed able to accomodate
slow traffic with no hassles when I was there. Plan on being vectored, and plan
on enroute re-routes. Atlantic Aviation was fine, typical big-airport FBO.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

[Teacherjh]

KPHL, On departure, there is no conveinent place to do a runup (once you're in
the taxiway system), so ask first where to do it so you don't block traffic. I
didn't know this and expected to do a runup at the departure end of the runway.
Well, it was tight, and a few bizjets squeaked by while I was doing it; this
was clearly not the preferred method.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[EDR]

> David Megginson wrote:
>
> > 2. I'd prefer to land KPHL 26 for Atlantic Aviation, winds permitting.
> > Is it easy to get the ILS 26 approach? Once I'm in the Philly Approach
> > area, how will they be likely to route or vector me onto the approach?
> > How do they normally handle low-level, slow (Cherokee) IFR arrivals from
> > the north?

PHL has a website (www.phl.org).
Look at the Flight Information tab.
I am amazed to see that aircarrier operations don't really commence
operations until 1030 ET! With the exception of one flight at 0630, it
looks like you can get in or out without delay.

[David Megginson]

Teacherjh wrote:

> KPHL, On departure, there is no conveinent place to do a runup (once you're in
> the taxiway system), so ask first where to do it so you don't block traffic. I
> didn't know this and expected to do a runup at the departure end of the runway.
> Well, it was tight, and a few bizjets squeaked by while I was doing it; this
> was clearly not the preferred method.

Were you departing from 08/26, or did they send you on into the west part of
the field?


Thanks,


David

[Dave Butler]

Teacherjh wrote:
> KPHL, On departure, there is no conveinent place to do a runup (once you're in
> the taxiway system), so ask first where to do it so you don't block traffic. I
> didn't know this and expected to do a runup at the departure end of the runway.
> Well, it was tight, and a few bizjets squeaked by while I was doing it; this
> was clearly not the preferred method.

Good point! I forgot about that. I did the same thing.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

[David Megginson]

EDR wrote:

> PHL has a website (www.phl.org).
> Look at the Flight Information tab.
> I am amazed to see that aircarrier operations don't really commence
> operations until 1030 ET! With the exception of one flight at 0630, it
> looks like you can get in or out without delay.

Excellent -- I didn't know about that site.

In my (still fairly limited) flying experience, it takes a *lot* of jet
traffic to start causing delays for us little guys (i.e. more than one
landing every 4-5 minutes). So far, I've had no trouble getting in and out
of Montreal/Dorval VFR and IFR. I did get looped on my last IFR approach at
my home airport (Ottawa/Macdonald-Cartier), but only because the SID put me
on the localizer more than 20 miles back and then ATC couldn't figure out
what to do with the faster traffic behind me; since I had already broken
into VMC, I just cancelled IFR and entered the VFR circuit for the north
field, so there was no real delay even then.


All the best,


David

[Matthew S. Whiting]

Teacherjh wrote:
> KPHL, On departure, there is no conveinent place to do a runup (once you're in
> the taxiway system), so ask first where to do it so you don't block traffic. I
> didn't know this and expected to do a runup at the departure end of the runway.
> Well, it was tight, and a few bizjets squeaked by while I was doing it; this
> was clearly not the preferred method.

Yes, I try to do the run-up well before getting to the runway when at
large airports. Having said that, it is your prerogative to do it
there, but you tend to annoy a number of people that way. Often, if you
are taxing out and have at least one airplane in front of you, you'll
have plenty of time for your run-up while the other airplane is entering
the runway for take-off or just while waiting in line. However, if I
have to wait long on the ramp for my clearance, I'll do the run-up
before taxi as long as my engine is warmed up a little.


Matt

[EDR]

In article
gers.com>, David
Megginson > wrote:

> EDR wrote:
>
> > PHL has a website (www.phl.org).
> > Look at the Flight Information tab.
> > I am amazed to see that aircarrier operations don't really commence
> > operations until 1030 ET! With the exception of one flight at 0630, it
> > looks like you can get in or out without delay.
>
> Excellent -- I didn't know about that site.
>
> In my (still fairly limited) flying experience, it takes a *lot* of jet
> traffic to start causing delays for us little guys (i.e. more than one
> landing every 4-5 minutes). So far, I've had no trouble getting in and out
> of Montreal/Dorval VFR and IFR. I did get looped on my last IFR approach at
> my home airport (Ottawa/Macdonald-Cartier), but only because the SID put me
> on the localizer more than 20 miles back and then ATC couldn't figure out
> what to do with the faster traffic behind me; since I had already broken
> into VMC, I just cancelled IFR and entered the VFR circuit for the north
> field, so there was no real delay even then.

I learned many years ago, that when flying into an aircarrier hub
airport, always check their arrival/dparture schedules and plan your
arrival/departure time for the mid-morning and mid-afternoon gaps. Sure
beats being number xx in line for departure. Another trick at these
airports is to request and intersection departure. This will sometimes
get you out ahead of the que. Watch where the departing aircraft lifts
off and be carefull to avoid wake turbulence with spacing and turns.
Advise ATC of your intended actions prior to taking the active and they
will try to accommodate you with a turn away from the traffic.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, EDR > said:
>beats being number xx in line for departure. Another trick at these
>airports is to request and intersection departure. This will sometimes
>get you out ahead of the que. Watch where the departing aircraft lifts

One time I asked for an intersection departure, and they told me that if I
wanted one, I'd have to wait the full wake turbulence time, but if I went
to the end I could get out immediately. I still don't understand that
one.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Just another organic pain collector racing to oblivion

[Teacherjh]

>>
One time I asked for an intersection departure, and they told me that if I
wanted one, I'd have to wait the full wake turbulence time, but if I went
to the end I could get out immediately. I still don't understand that
one.
<<

Depending on where the intersection was, you might be significantly closer to
the rotation point, leaving fewer options for turning in time to avoid the
rotor.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[EDR]

In article >, Paul Tomblin
> wrote:

> In a previous article, EDR > said:
> >beats being number xx in line for departure. Another trick at these
> >airports is to request and intersection departure. This will sometimes
> >get you out ahead of the que. Watch where the departing aircraft lifts
>
> One time I asked for an intersection departure, and they told me that if I
> wanted one, I'd have to wait the full wake turbulence time, but if I went
> to the end I could get out immediately. I still don't understand that
> one.

The way around that is to do as you do with formation takeoffs, tell
the tower "Pilot assumes all responsibility." Once their ass is
covered, they will usually give you what you want.

[Barry]

> > One time I asked for an intersection departure, and they told me that if I
> > wanted one, I'd have to wait the full wake turbulence time, but if I went
> > to the end I could get out immediately. I still don't understand that
> > one.
>
> The way around that is to do as you do with formation takeoffs, tell
> the tower "Pilot assumes all responsibility." Once their ass is
> covered, they will usually give you what you want.

Not in this case. Check the AIM, paragraph 7-3-9. The three minute wait for
departure from an intersection cannot be waived when the preceding aircraft is
a heavy or a 757:

http://www1.faa.gov/atpubs/aim/Chap7/aim0703.html#7-3-9

[Jay Somerset]

On 01 Dec 2003 15:58:29 GMT, (Teacherjh) wrote:

> KPHL, On departure, there is no conveinent place to do a runup (once you're in
> the taxiway system), so ask first where to do it so you don't block traffic. I
> didn't know this and expected to do a runup at the departure end of the runway.
> Well, it was tight, and a few bizjets squeaked by while I was doing it; this
> was clearly not the preferred method.

Aha, this is just the situation that calls for a "rolling runup." Do it on
the (long) taxiway toward the takeoff runway. Everything is the same,
except you use the brakes to keep at normal taxi speed, rather than use the
brakes to stay stationary. Yes, it does wear the brakes a bit, but not more
than a short field landing will.

A very useful trick that my CFI taught me many years ago, and I've found
several occasions (at big-iron airports) where it really saves time and
confusion.

At an unfamiliar towered airport, you can also ask GND if there is a runup
area at/near the threshold hold point. If not, then do it on the roll.

>
> Jose

[K. Ari Krupnikov]

David Megginson > writes:

> I'll be flying from Ottawa to Philadelphia next weekend for a
> week-long conference, and would be grateful for hints and information
> from people familiar with the U.S. portion of the route.

I wouldn't worry too much about what route you file, it will most
probably change -- several times during your flight. Is that not the
case in Canada?

I've never landed at PHL, but I did my instruments at PNE, which is
under Philadelphia approach. It has been my experience that PHL
approach think they are the most overworked controllers in the
universe, even though they handle significantly less traffic than,
say, the neighboring NY approach. Maybe they just don't have enough
patience for training flights. (I've never flown in their airspace in
actual; I moved away the day after I passed my instrument checkride).

Enjoy XML 2003. Are you giving a talk?

Ari.

--
Elections only count as free and trials as fair if you can lose money
betting on the outcome.

[David Megginson]

K. Ari Krupnikov wrote:

> I wouldn't worry too much about what route you file, it will most
> probably change -- several times during your flight. Is that not the
> case in Canada?

When there's a published preferred IFR route, I usually get it. When I get
close to Toronto they like to start messing with me, but the traffic flow
there is pretty crazy, so that's excusable.

When there's not a published preferred IFR route, it seems that there's
still usually an *unpublished* one that I have to learn by trial and error.
We should start collecting those on a Web site somewhere.

> Enjoy XML 2003. Are you giving a talk?

Thanks -- I think my paper's on Wednesday.


All the best,


David

[Jay Somerset]

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 19:36:15 GMT, David Megginson >
wrote:

> K. Ari Krupnikov wrote:
>
> > I wouldn't worry too much about what route you file, it will most
> > probably change -- several times during your flight. Is that not the
> > case in Canada?
>
> When there's a published preferred IFR route, I usually get it. When I get
> close to Toronto they like to start messing with me, but the traffic flow
> there is pretty crazy, so that's excusable.

If you think the traffic around YYZ is pretty crazy, I'd really be
interested in your opinions after you fly down the east cost to PHL. I
consider anywhere in Canada, even in/around YYZ to be kind of slow and laid
back, compared to the Washington DC area where I am based. If you want a
taste of it, just fly a little further to BWI. :-)
>
> When there's not a published preferred IFR route, it seems that there's
> still usually an *unpublished* one that I have to learn by trial and error.
> We should start collecting those on a Web site somewhere.
>
> > Enjoy XML 2003. Are you giving a talk?
>
> Thanks -- I think my paper's on Wednesday.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> David

[vincent p. norris]

>If you think the traffic around YYZ is pretty crazy, I'd really be
>interested in your opinions after you fly down the east cost to PHL. I
>consider anywhere in Canada, even in/around YYZ to be kind of slow and laid
>back, compared to the Washington DC area where I am based. If you want a
>taste of it, just fly a little further to BWI. :-)

I haven't been there since 9-11, but over the years I've gone to DCA
and IAD a couple dozen times, and never had a problem.

DCA tower always (in VFR wx) cleared me to land on one of the cross
runways between the big iron, with no delay, trusting me to hold
short. And I've mentioned here before that once, after clearing me
for the approach at IAD, AC told an Air France jet who called in right
after I did, "You're number two behind the Cherokee."

Hard to complain about service like that.

vince norris

[David Megginson]

Jay Somerset wrote:

> If you think the traffic around YYZ is pretty crazy, I'd really be
> interested in your opinions after you fly down the east cost to PHL. I
> consider anywhere in Canada, even in/around YYZ to be kind of slow and laid
> back, compared to the Washington DC area where I am based. If you want a
> taste of it, just fly a little further to BWI. :-)

It's the traffic flow, not the traffic that's crazy: Brampton airport is
right under one of the major arrival/departure paths for CYYZ, which makes
handling an IFR in or out of Brampton a nightmare for ATC. On my way in, I
just cancelled IFR to make life easier for all of us, but on my way out, it
was low night IMC, so I had to arrange a time over the phone and still got
zigzagged all over the GTA to avoid all the CYYZ arrivals. IFR into Toronto
Island (City Centre) is no problem, since it's nicely out of the way.

I have no experience with your airspace, but I have flown inside NYC
airspace (to Caldwell, from the north), and found it surprisingly quiet -- I
was expecting something like PUSHING TIN, with controllers firing new
instructions every two seconds followed by "break", but that afternoon, at
least, the NW sector was much quieter than the Ottawa Terminal area I'd left
behind. The following evening, near midnight, it was a bit busier with all
the cargo planes coming into to Teterboro, but still not bad.

To this day, I've never heard a controller so busy that he/she had to use
"break" except inside Ottawa Terminal airspace. Maybe this weekend ... (of
course, I've never flown to KOSH).


All the best,


David

[David Megginson]

vincent p. norris wrote:

> And I've mentioned here before that once, after clearing me
> for the approach at IAD, AC told an Air France jet who called in right
> after I did, "You're number two behind the Cherokee."
>
> Hard to complain about service like that.

I have the (dubious) pleasure of hearing that kind of thing all the time at
my home airport, CYOW. As long as there's adequate spacing (given different
aircraft speeds), it's first-come/first-served.


All the best,


David

[K. Ari Krupnikov]

David Megginson > writes:

> It's the traffic flow, not the traffic that's crazy: Brampton airport
> is right under one of the major arrival/departure paths for CYYZ,
> which makes handling an IFR in or out of Brampton a nightmare for ATC.
> On my way in, I just cancelled IFR to make life easier for all of us,
> but on my way out, it was low night IMC, so I had to arrange a time
> over the phone and still got zigzagged all over the GTA to avoid all
> the CYYZ arrivals. IFR into Toronto Island (City Centre) is no
> problem, since it's nicely out of the way.

Then again, Toronto Terminal are not as accommodating to GA as some
other approaches I've talked to. The one time I had to go from Island
to Brampton (after letting my passenger out on my way from Ottawa), I
asked ground if they could coordinate with Terminal a clearance direct
YTP VOR direct Brampton. Brampton and Island are on a line that passes
through YYZ [1], and I wanted to avoid going the long way around the
terminal area. Ground said they'd never heard of such a request being
made, much less granted. Once in the air, I called terminal, and they
said pretty much the same thing.

> To this day, I've never heard a controller so busy that he/she had to
> use "break" except inside Ottawa Terminal airspace. Maybe this
> weekend ... (of course, I've never flown to KOSH).

I'm afraid I've never heard it either. Does it mean "don't reply"?
"Expect no further transmission"?

Ari.

[1] http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepage/index.cfm?lat=43.6735643184&lon=-79.817416342&scale=500000&zoom=50&type=2&height=498&width=498&icon=0&searchscope=dom&scriptfile=http://mapserver.maptech.com/homepage/index.cfm&bpid=MAP0060030900%2C1%2C1%2C0&latlontype=DMS

--
Elections only count as free and trials as fair if you can lose money
betting on the outcome.

[Teacherjh]

>>
> To this day, I've never heard a controller so busy that he/she had to
> use "break" except inside Ottawa Terminal airspace. Maybe this
> weekend ... (of course, I've never flown to KOSH).

I'm afraid I've never heard it either. Does it mean "don't reply"?
"Expect no further transmission"?
<<

I've heard it (I'm on the East Coast). It means "the next transmission is
coming right away and is meant for somebody else so please don't step on it".
That way the controller can issue a lot of instructions quickly and sort out a
mess that has developed (not through any fault of the controller, usually).

Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[David Megginson]

K. Ari Krupnikov wrote:

> I'm afraid I've never heard it either. Does it mean "don't reply"?
> "Expect no further transmission"?

It's standard phraseology for "don't acknowledge," i.e.

charlie victor oscar, stay on downwind, I'll call your base, BREAK
bravo juliet oscar winds 290 at eight knots cleared for landing, BREAK
Air Canada 999, exit left on foxtrot, ground 121.9

I've had it only a few times, and only once IFR ("stand by for your
readback, BREAK").


All the best,


David

[David Megginson]

K. Ari Krupnikov wrote:

> I wouldn't worry too much about what route you file, it will most
> probably change -- several times during your flight. Is that not the
> case in Canada?

And so it was. The controllers kept clearing me direct to VORs I couldn't
possibly receive yet, and I kept asking for vectors until I could tune in
the VOR rather than cheating and navigating solely with my new 196 (which is
a nifty device). I do the same dance in Canada often enough. The airways
are designed for people like me, without IFR GPS's, but ATC must be so used
to IFR GPS's now that they tend not to take advantage of them.

> I've never landed at PHL, but I did my instruments at PNE, which is
> under Philadelphia approach. It has been my experience that PHL
> approach think they are the most overworked controllers in the
> universe, even though they handle significantly less traffic than,
> say, the neighboring NY approach. Maybe they just don't have enough
> patience for training flights. (I've never flown in their airspace in
> actual; I moved away the day after I passed my instrument checkride).

My experience was very positive -- they were helpful, friendly, and
professional at all levels. Atlantic Aviation was also great. If only the
winds had been more cooperative on the way home ...

> Enjoy XML 2003. Are you giving a talk?

Thank you. It went well and (if you don't mind a personal note on a public
list), your name came up when Henry Thompson and I were chatting (Henry was
serving as a booth babe for the W3C on the exhibit floor; any comments on
that had best be offline).


All the best, and clear skies,


David

[K. Ari Krupnikov]

David Megginson > writes:

> The controllers kept clearing me direct to VORs I
> couldn't possibly receive yet, and I kept asking for vectors until I
> could tune in the VOR rather than cheating and navigating solely with
> my new 196 (which is a nifty device).

Glad you got yourself one of those. It's amazing how much it reduces
workload, isn't it? No substitute for the paper chart, but truly an
"aid to navigation".

BTW, where did you end up clearing customs, Philly or closer to the
border?

> > Enjoy XML 2003. Are you giving a talk?
>
> Thank you. It went well and (if you don't mind a personal note on a
> public list), your name came up when Henry Thompson and I were
> chatting (Henry was serving as a booth babe for the W3C on the exhibit
> floor; any comments on that had best be offline).

My From: is a valid account I read.

Ari.

--
Elections only count as free and trials as fair if you can lose money
betting on the outcome.

[David Megginson]

K. Ari Krupnikov wrote:

>> The controllers kept clearing me direct to VORs I
>>couldn't possibly receive yet, and I kept asking for vectors until I
>>could tune in the VOR rather than cheating and navigating solely with
>>my new 196 (which is a nifty device).
>
> Glad you got yourself one of those. It's amazing how much it reduces
> workload, isn't it? No substitute for the paper chart, but truly an
> "aid to navigation".
>
> BTW, where did you end up clearing customs, Philly or closer to the
> border?

I flew straight to Philly. The only problem was the stronger-than-expected
tailwind, which gave me ground speeds from 155-175 kt (in a 120 kt airplane)
even when I throttled back to 65% power. I managed the 340 nm flight in 2.5
hours and 20 US gallons, even with opposite-direction takeoff and landing
and a bit of vectoring at both ends, and arrived 25 minutes early despite
all my delaying techniques. I dawdled as much as I could on the ground, but
customs still met me 15 minutes early.

I had called Philly customs earlier in the week, though, and I was pretty
confident that they were easy-going. The trick at KPHL is that you radio
the FBO (Atlantic) when you're 15 minutes out and they advise customs, so
there's no inconvenience for the customs and immigration offices -- it's not
as if there's some poor guy (or gal) who had to drive from the nearest
border crossing and sit waiting in the pick-up truck.

I also talked to Philly customs about what I would do if I had to divert,
and they were very friendly and helpful, and didn't make it sound as if it
would be a disaster.


All the best,


David