PDA

View Full Version : Re: Strategy for icing due to freezing rain


Bob Gardner
March 6th 06, 01:28 AM
Are you familiar with Skew-T diagrams? They show a continual track of
temperature and dewpoint versus altitude as reflected by the RAOB balloon.
Might be better than depending on rules of thumb. Just Google Skew-T and you
will get plenty of links.

Bob Gardner

"Peter" > wrote in message
...
>I would like some feedback here from experienced IFR pilots.
>
> This is concerning practical issues, not regulatory issues which in
> any case vary according to country (I am not in the USA).
>
> I am an FAA PPL/IR and fly a TB20, not de-iced except for a TKS prop.
>
> My standard strategy for flight in potential icing conditions
> (potential IMC, with TAT between 0C and about -15C) could be
> summarised as follows:
>
> No flight if embedded TCU/CB activity forecast
>
> No flight if the forecast 0C level is below the MSA (MOCA) plus
> 1000ft, unless the potentially freezing layer can be clearly
> established as less than say 2000ft thick (a current skew-t, or
> looking up through the holes) and one can fly VMC on top without
> problems with controlled airspace etc.
>
> No flight if the potentially freezing layer is thicker than about
> 5000ft (this one needs a solid escape route, 2000ft or so of warm air
> below and preferably over the sea.
>
> I've picked up ice at various times, up to about 1cm, without
> problems. The TKS prop also keeps the front window clear.
>
> Now, the question is about freezing rain.
>
> Speaking to instructors/examiners, the FAA oral/written position seems
> to be that since there must be warmer air above, one should CLIMB.
>
> However, it seems to me that this must depend on the severity of the
> temperature inversion, and where on the temperature/height curve one
> is flying.
>
> 1) Let's say the TAT is -2C - a descent of only 1000ft+ should take
> care of it using the conventional escape route, but not if one is
> flying just below the top of the inversion in which case the
> temperature would get lower still upon descent.
>
> 2) Let's say the TAT is -8C - this seems a poor position to find
> oneself in, but could one encounter freezing rain at a SAT of say
> -10C? Would it not be snow or sleet? What is the realistic SAT range
> for freezing rain?
>
> Any suggestions will be much appreciated.
>
> I've been in rain just above TAT=0C, and when the TAT dropped to 0C I
> always descended some 2000ft and that always took care of it. In
> European airways flight one is typically at FL120 and there is nothing
> below in *most* places so this is an obvious way out.
>

rps
March 6th 06, 05:10 PM
Peter wrote:
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote
>
> >Are you familiar with Skew-T diagrams? They show a continual track of
> >temperature and dewpoint versus altitude as reflected by the RAOB balloon.
> >Might be better than depending on rules of thumb. Just Google Skew-T and you
> >will get plenty of links.
>
> Yes, I use skew-t diagrams. Both actual and forecast. Very useful.
>
> http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
>
> http://pages.unibas.ch/geo/mcr/3d/meteo/
>

I've never used these and didn't know about them. I pulled up a skew-t
diagram from the UWYO site but couldn't figure out what to look for.
Are you looking for altitudes at which the temperature is below the
dewpont and below 0 degrees (and if so, how) or something else?

Bob Gardner
March 6th 06, 10:44 PM
Easy answer is that most weather products give you data for selected
altitudes...the Skew-T is a continuous readout.

Bob Gardner

"Peter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote
>
>>Are you familiar with Skew-T diagrams? They show a continual track of
>>temperature and dewpoint versus altitude as reflected by the RAOB balloon.
>>Might be better than depending on rules of thumb. Just Google Skew-T and
>>you
>>will get plenty of links.
>
> Yes, I use skew-t diagrams. Both actual and forecast. Very useful.
>
> http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
>
> http://pages.unibas.ch/geo/mcr/3d/meteo/
>
> So far, I have not seen info on my question though: can freezing rain
> exist at such a low SAT?

rps
March 7th 06, 02:20 AM
How do you figure out where the tops are? Would it be where the
temperature and dew point diverge after converging at a lower altitude?

Google