Saftey Pilot

[Richard Ross]

If an instrument rated saftey pilot files an IFR flight plan on a VMC day,
can the student inst. pilot legally log simulated instrument time while
under the hood?

The liability of the flight will rest entirely with the instrument rated
saftey pilot. However, for the purpose of logging simulated instrument
time,
is this legal?

Richard

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:47:14 GMT, "Richard Ross" > wrote:

>If an instrument rated saftey pilot files an IFR flight plan on a VMC day,
>can the student inst. pilot legally log simulated instrument time while
>under the hood?
>
>The liability of the flight will rest entirely with the instrument rated
>saftey pilot. However, for the purpose of logging simulated instrument
>time,
>is this legal?
>


Yes.

A pilot may log instrument time when that pilot is controlling the a/c
solely by reference to the instruments (under actual or simulated
instrument conditions).

Type of flight plan (or even the existence of a flight plan) is irrelevant.
Whether the pilot flying or the safety pilot is acting as Pilot in Command
is irrelevant.

The name of the safety pilot (if one is required) must also be logged.

Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Dane Spearing]

In article >,
Richard Ross > wrote:
>If an instrument rated saftey pilot files an IFR flight plan on a VMC day,
>can the student inst. pilot legally log simulated instrument time while
>under the hood?
>
>The liability of the flight will rest entirely with the instrument rated
>saftey pilot. However, for the purpose of logging simulated instrument
>time,
>is this legal?
>
>Richard

Most definitely! In fact, this is how a number of instrument students
accumulate the necessary hours and experience prior to taking their
checkride. The FARs stipulate that you need a minimum of 15 hours of
of instruction from a CFII (thought I suspect there are few who have managed
to get away with only 15 hours from a CFII prior to taking their checkride).
The rest can be flying around under the hood with a safety pilot (who doesn't
even need to be instrument rated). I personally spent quite a few hours
shooting approaches with a safety pilot on board prior to my checkride. It
was excellent practice because I didn't have a CFII on board to "bail me out"
should I get all confused as to what the needles were trying to tell me.
(The job of the safety pilot is, of course, to make sure you don't bonk
into anything....).

-- Dane

[[email protected]]

: checkride. The FARs stipulate that you need a minimum of 15 hours of
: of instruction from a CFII (thought I suspect there are few who have managed
: to get away with only 15 hours from a CFII prior to taking their checkride).
: The rest can be flying around under the hood with a safety pilot (who doesn't
: even need to be instrument rated). I personally spent quite a few hours

IIRC, I believe I was one. Being the cheap ******* that I am, I flew a lot
with PP-VFR safety pilot friends to accrue the experience, and paid for only the
15 hours CFII time required. That was more than enough CFII time. So long as you
don't develop bad habits, safety-pilot time is good enough for you to learn yourself
how easily you can kill yourself if you're not good enough. :)

: shooting approaches with a safety pilot on board prior to my checkride. It
: was excellent practice because I didn't have a CFII on board to "bail me out"
: should I get all confused as to what the needles were trying to tell me.
: (The job of the safety pilot is, of course, to make sure you don't bonk
: into anything....).

Technically, usually bonk into any-*ONE*. If you're flying instrument
procedures by the book there should be plenty of wiggle room (by definition).

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Mark Hansen]

On 03/21/06 03:13, wrote:
> : checkride. The FARs stipulate that you need a minimum of 15 hours of
> : of instruction from a CFII (thought I suspect there are few who have managed
> : to get away with only 15 hours from a CFII prior to taking their checkride).
> : The rest can be flying around under the hood with a safety pilot (who doesn't
> : even need to be instrument rated). I personally spent quite a few hours
>
> IIRC, I believe I was one. Being the cheap ******* that I am, I flew a lot
> with PP-VFR safety pilot friends to accrue the experience, and paid for only the
> 15 hours CFII time required. That was more than enough CFII time. So long as you
> don't develop bad habits, safety-pilot time is good enough for you to learn yourself
> how easily you can kill yourself if you're not good enough. :)
>
> : shooting approaches with a safety pilot on board prior to my checkride. It
> : was excellent practice because I didn't have a CFII on board to "bail me out"
> : should I get all confused as to what the needles were trying to tell me.
> : (The job of the safety pilot is, of course, to make sure you don't bonk
> : into anything....).
>
> Technically, usually bonk into any-*ONE*. If you're flying instrument
> procedures by the book there should be plenty of wiggle room (by definition).

True, but while you're practicing to become proficient, you're probably doing
more than a little wiggling ;-)

>
> -Cory
>
>


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Barry]

> ... I flew a lot with PP-VFR safety pilot friends to accrue the experience,
> and paid for only the 15 hours CFII time required. That was more than
> enough CFII time. So long as you don't develop bad habits, safety-pilot
> time is good enough for you to learn yourself how easily you can kill
> yourself if you're not good enough.

In my opinion, it's rare that an instrument student would do well with just
the 15 hour minimum CFII time. And avoiding bad habits is critical. For
those who do decide to practice with a safety pilot, I strongly advice
coordinating the flights with your CFII. Have a specific plan and goal for
each flight, and don't do more than two or three practice flights in a row
without flying with your CFII.

Barry, CFII and former instrument student

[Chris]

"Mark Hansen" > wrote in message
...
> On 03/21/06 03:13, wrote:
>> : checkride. The FARs stipulate that you need a minimum of 15 hours of
>> : of instruction from a CFII (thought I suspect there are few who have
>> managed
>> : to get away with only 15 hours from a CFII prior to taking their
>> checkride).
>> : The rest can be flying around under the hood with a safety pilot (who
>> doesn't
>> : even need to be instrument rated). I personally spent quite a few hours
>>
>> IIRC, I believe I was one. Being the cheap ******* that I am, I flew a
>> lot with PP-VFR safety pilot friends to accrue the experience, and paid
>> for only the 15 hours CFII time required. That was more than enough CFII
>> time. So long as you don't develop bad habits, safety-pilot time is good
>> enough for you to learn yourself how easily you can kill yourself if
>> you're not good enough. :)
>>
>> : shooting approaches with a safety pilot on board prior to my checkride.
>> It : was excellent practice because I didn't have a CFII on board to
>> "bail me out"
>> : should I get all confused as to what the needles were trying to tell
>> me. : (The job of the safety pilot is, of course, to make sure you don't
>> bonk
>> : into anything....).
>>
>> Technically, usually bonk into any-*ONE*. If you're flying instrument
>> procedures by the book there should be plenty of wiggle room (by
>> definition).
>

I have never tried bonking in a small plane. the 3000ft high club does not
sound as good.

[Dane Spearing]

In article >, Chris > wrote:
>>> (The job of the safety pilot is, of course, to make sure you don't
>>> bonk into anything....).
>>>
>>> Technically, usually bonk into any-*ONE*. If you're flying instrument
>>> procedures by the book there should be plenty of wiggle room (by
>>> definition).
>
>I have never tried bonking in a small plane. the 3000ft high club does not
>sound as good.

That's not "bonking" you're talking about, it's "boinking". :)

-- Dane