What approaches are in a database?

[Ross]

A few days ago I had a last minute change of destination and didn't check
the database (KLN 89B) of the rental A/C for the approaches at Waterloo
(CYKF) prior to departure. To my surprise, the db only had 1 approach (VOR)
for the airport against the 4 published approaches (VOR, NDB, LOC(BC) &
ILS).

Is there anyway to find out what approaches are in a database without going
out to the airport and playing with the GPS receiver? Or do I just have to
keep track of which ones I was able to do?

As a side line: a few months ago there was a post about the DH for the ILS
at this airport (CYKF) - 500 ft. There is now a NOTAM lowering the DH to
250 ft.

Thanks,
Ross

[ArtP]

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 12:53:53 GMT, "Ross" >
wrote:


>
>Is there anyway to find out what approaches are in a database without going
>out to the airport and playing with the GPS receiver? Or do I just have to
>keep track of which ones I was able to do?

One of the reasons I selected the GNS430 was that it had all of the
approaches so I could fly a coupled ILS. The UPS stuff only had
approaches you could legally fly with the GPS only (no NDB, no ILS, no
LOC, and no non-overlay VORs).

[Mick Ruthven]

Unless I'm missing someting here, an IFR approved GPS receiver (GPS only,
not a combination GPS, VOR, LOC unit like some of the newer ones) like the
KLN 89B will contain GPS approaches in the database. To fly VOR-only or LOC
or ILS or NDB approaches you need to use the avionics for those approaches,
not a GPS.

"Ross" > wrote in message
.cable.rogers.com...
> A few days ago I had a last minute change of destination and didn't check
> the database (KLN 89B) of the rental A/C for the approaches at Waterloo
> (CYKF) prior to departure. To my surprise, the db only had 1 approach
(VOR)
> for the airport against the 4 published approaches (VOR, NDB, LOC(BC) &
> ILS).
>
> Is there anyway to find out what approaches are in a database without
going
> out to the airport and playing with the GPS receiver? Or do I just have
to
> keep track of which ones I was able to do?
>
> As a side line: a few months ago there was a post about the DH for the ILS
> at this airport (CYKF) - 500 ft. There is now a NOTAM lowering the DH to
> 250 ft.
>
> Thanks,
> Ross
>
>

[EDR]

In article >, Mick
Ruthven > wrote:

> Unless I'm missing someting here, an IFR approved GPS receiver (GPS only,
> not a combination GPS, VOR, LOC unit like some of the newer ones) like the
> KLN 89B will contain GPS approaches in the database. To fly VOR-only or LOC
> or ILS or NDB approaches you need to use the avionics for those approaches,
> not a GPS.

It depends on the box and the installation.
It may only be certified for enroute.
It may be certified for enroute and terminal.
It may be certified for enroute, terminal and approach.

[Andrew Sarangan]

"Mick Ruthven" > wrote in message >...
> Unless I'm missing someting here, an IFR approved GPS receiver (GPS only,
> not a combination GPS, VOR, LOC unit like some of the newer ones) like the
> KLN 89B will contain GPS approaches in the database. To fly VOR-only or LOC
> or ILS or NDB approaches you need to use the avionics for those approaches,
> not a GPS.
>
> "Ross" > wrote in message
> .cable.rogers.com...
> > A few days ago I had a last minute change of destination and didn't check
> > the database (KLN 89B) of the rental A/C for the approaches at Waterloo
> > (CYKF) prior to departure. To my surprise, the db only had 1 approach
> (VOR)
> > for the airport against the 4 published approaches (VOR, NDB, LOC(BC) &
> > ILS).
> >
> > Is there anyway to find out what approaches are in a database without
> going
> > out to the airport and playing with the GPS receiver? Or do I just have
> to
> > keep track of which ones I was able to do?
> >
> > As a side line: a few months ago there was a post about the DH for the ILS
> > at this airport (CYKF) - 500 ft. There is now a NOTAM lowering the DH to
> > 250 ft.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ross
> >
> >

GNS430 has all the approaches, but if you attempt to activate a
non-GPS approach, it will flag a warning that "GPS guidance is for
monitoring only". It is a very useful feature for training purposes.

[Maule Driver]

"EDR" > > > Unless I'm missing someting here, an IFR
approved GPS receiver (GPS only,
> > not a combination GPS, VOR, LOC unit like some of the newer ones) like
the
> > KLN 89B will contain GPS approaches in the database. To fly VOR-only or
LOC
> > or ILS or NDB approaches you need to use the avionics for those
approaches,
> > not a GPS.
>
> It depends on the box and the installation.
> It may only be certified for enroute.
> It may be certified for enroute and terminal.
> It may be certified for enroute, terminal and approach.

I think it actually depends on whether the box has the non-GPS equipment
integrated into it. I believe that the 89B, like my Garmin 300XL is GPS
only so the DB only contains GPS approaches (including overlays on VOR and
NDB approaches). No Locs, no ILSs, no NDB or VOR only.

It is approach certified but only has the approaches which it can fly.

[John Clonts]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mick Ruthven" > wrote in message
>...
> > Unless I'm missing someting here, an IFR approved GPS receiver (GPS
only,
> > not a combination GPS, VOR, LOC unit like some of the newer ones) like
the
> > KLN 89B will contain GPS approaches in the database. To fly VOR-only or
LOC
> > or ILS or NDB approaches you need to use the avionics for those
approaches,
> > not a GPS.
> >
> > "Ross" > wrote in message
> > .cable.rogers.com...
> > > A few days ago I had a last minute change of destination and didn't
check
> > > the database (KLN 89B) of the rental A/C for the approaches at
Waterloo
> > > (CYKF) prior to departure. To my surprise, the db only had 1 approach
> > (VOR)
> > > for the airport against the 4 published approaches (VOR, NDB, LOC(BC)
&
> > > ILS).
> > >
> > > Is there anyway to find out what approaches are in a database without
> > going
> > > out to the airport and playing with the GPS receiver? Or do I just
have
> > to
> > > keep track of which ones I was able to do?
> > >
> > > As a side line: a few months ago there was a post about the DH for the
ILS
> > > at this airport (CYKF) - 500 ft. There is now a NOTAM lowering the DH
to
> > > 250 ft.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ross
> > >
> > >
>
> GNS430 has all the approaches, but if you attempt to activate a
> non-GPS approach, it will flag a warning that "GPS guidance is for
> monitoring only". It is a very useful feature for training purposes.

Ditto the KLN-94. Useful, and not just for training!

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

[C J Campbell]

The KLN 89B has only approaches that are legal to fly with the GPS in its
database. The GARMIN 430 contains ILS approaches, but it also has the
localizer built into it. The GPS can be used to monitor the ILS or LOC
approach. The KLN 94 has all the approaches, but it tells you which ones are
legal and which ones you are just using the GPS for monitoring the approach.

[Stan Prevost]

"ArtP" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 12:53:53 GMT, "Ross" >
> wrote:
>
> The UPS stuff only had
> approaches you could legally fly with the GPS only

and doesn't have all of them.

Stan

[Brien K. Meehan]

"Mick Ruthven" > wrote in message >...
> Unless I'm missing someting here, an IFR approved GPS receiver (GPS only,
> not a combination GPS, VOR, LOC unit like some of the newer ones) like the
> KLN 89B will contain GPS approaches in the database.

Some units, including GPS-only units, have all published approaches in
the database, including navaid-only approaches.

> To fly VOR-only or LOC
> or ILS or NDB approaches you need to use the avionics for those approaches,
> not a GPS.

Yes, that's right.

This begs the question, why do the GPS's have approaches in their
databases that you can't use?

The answer is: For Reference Only. Someone else mentioned that the
KLN94 even tells you that you can use it for reference only when you
dial it up.

The benefit is that using GPS as a reference for navaid-based
approaches is a GREAT way to easily increase your situational
awareness. Especially if you have a moving map. It's so nice to see
where that localizer back course is with a quick glance when you're
trying to juggle charts and minimums and waypoints based on remote VOR
radials.

[ArtP]

On 3 Jan 2004 22:58:09 -0800, (Brien K.
Meehan) wrote:


>This begs the question, why do the GPS's have approaches in their
>databases that you can't use?
>
>The answer is: For Reference Only. Someone else mentioned that the
>KLN94 even tells you that you can use it for reference only when you
>dial it up.

Actually you can use it for more than reference. A GPS coupled to an
autopilot will fly the entire approach (even an NDB) up to the FAF.
That includes any turns or holds. If you go missed, the GPS will then
resume a coupled missed approach.

[Newps]

Brien K. Meehan wrote:

>>To fly VOR-only or LOC
>>or ILS or NDB approaches you need to use the avionics for those approaches,
>>not a GPS.

Legally yes. But really, why wouldn't you fly an NDB approach with a
terminal/enroute only box, even if you didn't have an ADF?