Piper SB 1161

[[email protected]]

Last week I received a new Piper Service Bulletin, which seems to affect all
older (pre 1983) retractable gear PA-28s (Arrow), PA-32s (Lance/Saratoga),
PA-34s (Seneca), and PA-44s (Seminole). It calls for recurrent dye
penetrant inspections of a particular wing rib (one in each wing) where the
main gear side braces attach. On paper, the SB looks like the inspection
might be quite a job because it requires jacking the plane, removing the
gear side brace, and swinging the gear after reinstallation. However, if
done during annual it might not be such a big deal since the gear swinging
has to be done anyway. The inspections are "required" every 500 hours, but
the requirement can be curtailed by installing a "Service Kit" on the
affected rib. Installation of the kit is also a corrective repair if cracks
are observed, unless the cracks have propagated too far.
The SB can be viewed and downloaded at
<http://www.newpiper.com/company/Publications/SB%201161%20Rib%20Assy%20Insp-Mod.pdf>

Does anybody have any insights into the history and disposition of this SB?
Specifically, I am wondering:
How prevalent are the rib cracking problems that the SB addresses?
Is an Airworthiness Directive likely to follow?
About how many hours of labor will the recurrent inspection add to an
annual?
About how many hours of labor would be required to install the Piper
Service Kit (per wing)?

Any insights from other Piper owners and/or A&Ps would be appreciated.


-Elliott Drucker

[BTIZ]

I read where the inspections are required every 100hrs, and a repeat of the
initial inspection every 500hrs.

BT

> wrote in message
news:ZIeWf.16307$W75.12066@trnddc07...
> Last week I received a new Piper Service Bulletin, which seems to affect
> all
> older (pre 1983) retractable gear PA-28s (Arrow), PA-32s (Lance/Saratoga),
> PA-34s (Seneca), and PA-44s (Seminole). It calls for recurrent dye
> penetrant inspections of a particular wing rib (one in each wing) where
> the
> main gear side braces attach. On paper, the SB looks like the inspection
> might be quite a job because it requires jacking the plane, removing the
> gear side brace, and swinging the gear after reinstallation. However, if
> done during annual it might not be such a big deal since the gear swinging
> has to be done anyway. The inspections are "required" every 500 hours,
> but
> the requirement can be curtailed by installing a "Service Kit" on the
> affected rib. Installation of the kit is also a corrective repair if
> cracks
> are observed, unless the cracks have propagated too far.
> The SB can be viewed and downloaded at
> <http://www.newpiper.com/company/Publications/SB%201161%20Rib%20Assy%20Insp-Mod.pdf>
>
> Does anybody have any insights into the history and disposition of this
> SB?
> Specifically, I am wondering:
> How prevalent are the rib cracking problems that the SB addresses?
> Is an Airworthiness Directive likely to follow?
> About how many hours of labor will the recurrent inspection add to an
> annual?
> About how many hours of labor would be required to install the Piper
> Service Kit (per wing)?
>
> Any insights from other Piper owners and/or A&Ps would be appreciated.
>
>
> -Elliott Drucker

[[email protected]]

On 28-Mar-2006, "BTIZ" > wrote:

> I read where the inspections are required every 100hrs, and a repeat of
> the initial inspection every 500hrs.


The initial inspection requires the removal of the main gear side braces and
dye penetrant on the affected rib. This dye penetrant inspection is
"required" (bear in mind this is a SB, not an AD, so the "requirement" is
not a legal one) subsequently every 500 hours. However, the SB also calls
for a much simpler visual inspection, that does not require jacking or
removal of the side braces, every 100 hrs. I would guess that visual
inspection will take no more than 15 minutes or so. All requirements for
inspections go away if the service kit is installed.

-Elliott Drucker

[Paul kgyy]

I've seen up to 60 hours' estimate for the kit installation on both
wings. I think this one job that I'd want done by someone who has done
it a few times before.

Haven't seen anything on prevalence, just anecdotal from Cherokee
Pilots Assn - appears fairly common, but not universal.

[The Visitor]

wrote:

> Last week I received a new Piper Service Bulletin, which seems to affect all
> older (pre 1983) retractable gear PA-28s (Arrow), PA-32s (Lance/Saratoga),
> PA-34s (Seneca),


Pre 83, I hope so. I read the bulletin and it mentions Seneca 4's and
5's. So why limit it to pre 83?

[[email protected]]

On 30-Mar-2006, The Visitor > wrote:

> Pre 83, I hope so. I read the bulletin and it mentions Seneca 4's and
> 5's. So why limit it to pre 83?


The SB lists possibly affected SNs for each model, rather than model year.
However, the affected ribs carry a date code of 8312 (12th week of 1982) or
lower. Of course, airplanes built for some time after that date might have
used older ribs in initial construction. And it's even POSSIBLE that a
newer airplane has had an older (salvage?) rib installed to repair damage.
But my guess is that the vast majority of pre-1983 Piper retracts are
affected, and the vast majority of post-1983 planes are not.

-Elliott Drucker

[The Visitor]

Well I'm hoping I can see the date code without taking stuff apart? My
annual was last month.

wrote:

> On 30-Mar-2006, The Visitor > wrote:
>
>
>>Pre 83, I hope so. I read the bulletin and it mentions Seneca 4's and
>>5's. So why limit it to pre 83?
>
>
>
> The SB lists possibly affected SNs for each model, rather than model year.
> However, the affected ribs carry a date code of 8312 (12th week of 1982) or
> lower. Of course, airplanes built for some time after that date might have
> used older ribs in initial construction. And it's even POSSIBLE that a
> newer airplane has had an older (salvage?) rib installed to repair damage.
> But my guess is that the vast majority of pre-1983 Piper retracts are
> affected, and the vast majority of post-1983 planes are not.
>
> -Elliott Drucker

[Peter Clark]

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:45:30 GMT,
wrote:

>
>On 30-Mar-2006, The Visitor > wrote:
>
>> Pre 83, I hope so. I read the bulletin and it mentions Seneca 4's and
>> 5's. So why limit it to pre 83?
>
>
>The SB lists possibly affected SNs for each model, rather than model year.
>However, the affected ribs carry a date code of 8312 (12th week of 1982) or
>lower. Of course, airplanes built for some time after that date might have
>used older ribs in initial construction. And it's even POSSIBLE that a
>newer airplane has had an older (salvage?) rib installed to repair damage.
>But my guess is that the vast majority of pre-1983 Piper retracts are
>affected, and the vast majority of post-1983 planes are not.

OK, hate to rain on the parade, but unless they have started re-using
or have had parts laying around for 22 years, my PA44-180, factory new
and built (reportedly) in Oct and Nov 05, is in the serial number
range for this SB. so it's not just pre-1983.

[Leonard Ellis]

"Peter Clark" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:45:30 GMT,
> wrote:
>
>>
>>On 30-Mar-2006, The Visitor > wrote:
>>
>>> Pre 83, I hope so. I read the bulletin and it mentions Seneca 4's and
>>> 5's. So why limit it to pre 83?
>>
>>
>>The SB lists possibly affected SNs for each model, rather than model year.
>>However, the affected ribs carry a date code of 8312 (12th week of 1982)
>>or
>>lower. Of course, airplanes built for some time after that date might
>>have
>>used older ribs in initial construction. And it's even POSSIBLE that a
>>newer airplane has had an older (salvage?) rib installed to repair damage.
>>But my guess is that the vast majority of pre-1983 Piper retracts are
>>affected, and the vast majority of post-1983 planes are not.
>
> OK, hate to rain on the parade, but unless they have started re-using
> or have had parts laying around for 22 years, my PA44-180, factory new
> and built (reportedly) in Oct and Nov 05, is in the serial number
> range for this SB. so it's not just pre-1983.

[Jack Allison]

Hey Elliott...I wish I could say "What's SB1161?"...but I can't. Our
Arrow is in for annual and we decided to have the SB inspection done.
We have cracks on both sides of the rib in question. Bad enough that
our ribs need to be replaced.

Feedback from a guy (Dick Russ) of the Cherokee Pilot's association is
that the inspection would take approximately two hours and the repair,
if needed, would be about 30 hours of labor plus $500 and change for the
kit.

I'll post more details on our estimate in a new thread.

If you're interested in pictures, drop me an e-mail. I have photos of
our cracks on the side of the ribs opposite the side brace bracket. I
can also send you a picture of what Dick Russ's cracked rib looked like.
His was on a Lance and he had one crack on the side brace/bracket side
of one rib.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[[email protected]]

On 31-Mar-2006, Jack Allison > wrote:

> Feedback from a guy (Dick Russ) of the Cherokee Pilot's association is
> that the inspection would take approximately two hours and the repair,
> if needed, would be about 30 hours of labor plus $500 and change for the
> kit.


Well, I'm not sure I believe the two hour figure for the inspection. Seems
kind of optimistic for the actual inspection (dye penetrant) AND the time
for disassembling and reassembling the gear side brace on each wing. And
this assumes that the plane is already on jacks and that the gear has to be
swung anyway (i.e. during the annual). However, even if it's more like 3
hours it still would be hard to justify undertaking the 30 labor hr "repair"
prophylactically. But as your situation demonstrates, you sure want to
catch any cracks before they propagate to a point where repair is not
feasible.

-Elliott Drucker

[john smith]

Jack, please post photos to alt.binaries.pictures.aviation so we can all
view them.

> If you're interested in pictures, drop me an e-mail. I have photos of
> our cracks on the side of the ribs opposite the side brace bracket. I
> can also send you a picture of what Dick Russ's cracked rib looked like.
> His was on a Lance and he had one crack on the side brace/bracket side
> of one rib.