Big bad ugly first annual

[ncoastwmn]

I'm not sleeping after getting the report grounding my Luscombe 8A
after its first annual as my plane. All the advise about a pre-buy
inspection is true! I thought my plane was too to do that at a long
distance. (My plane came from Georgia, I'm in California). The outboard
five feet of the wings and the tailwheel were assembled with
non-structural pop rivets. I'm lucky the ferry pilot made it here. I
expected some "old plane" problems, not thousands of dollars in
substandard repairs. I have contacted the previous owner and am hoping
to work something out. Has anyone experienced something like this? How
did you deal with this?

Linda
N71467

[Mike Spera]

Welcome to airplane ownership. First of all, don't panic and do
something "right now". Take a step back.

An odd part of airplane ownership is that one mechanic's "airworthy" can
be another mechanic's "death trap". Those rivets may be entirely proper
for that application. They may have been installed by the factory. There
are several types of "pop" rivets for airplane applications that ARE
structural. Is the work signed off anywhere in the logbooks?

When receiving a major dollar report of imminent doom from anyone who
repairs mechanical things, I usually get a second opinion. Especially if
I am told that "you are lucky you made it here". In addition, who says
you are "grounded"? Hopefully that is not a word that came from this
mechanic. No mechanic has that authority. Now, if s/he wants to call the
local FAA folks in to take a look, they can do that. I would bet money
they will not. Other wrenches have weighed in on this forum and they
generally agree that mechanics CAN refuse to sign off the bird as
airworthy, but that is all.

You are in a classic "no leverage" situation and you should consider
getting out of it. If the work was signed off under the previous owner's
stewardship, give them a call and get the mechanic's telephone number.
Tell the old mechanic what your new wrench is telling you and ask them
what they think about the situation.

In general, I advise healthy suspicion. If the work does not appear in
the logbooks or you cannot contact the person who did it, have the plane
buttoned up and take it somewhere else locally. If the mechanic jumps up
and down about how you will be instantly killed if you attempt to fly
the plane OR you cannot bring yourself to do it, then you might try
something else. Tell the wrench that you MUST have a second (or third)
opinion by someone you are bringing in. S/he should not object because
they have already made the case that an unmistakable and dangerous
condition exists. By their own warning of doom, anyone with an A&P
license should spot this immediately and agree. Get a mechanic with
experience in that airplane type, even if you have to pay them to fly
in. Given the potential expense, it may be worth it.

If they won't allow anyone else to look at it, I would then INSIST they
button it up immediately and put it outside. If they won't do that, call
the police.

Only AFTER you have established that an airplane was signed off as
airworthy and it was not (in the opinion of at least 2 independent
sources) should you consider pursuing the person who signed off the
work. Until then, use whoever signed it off as a resource.

Good Luck,
Mike



ncoastwmn wrote:
> I'm not sleeping after getting the report grounding my Luscombe 8A
> after its first annual as my plane. All the advise about a pre-buy
> inspection is true! I thought my plane was too to do that at a long
> distance. (My plane came from Georgia, I'm in California). The outboard
> five feet of the wings and the tailwheel were assembled with
> non-structural pop rivets. I'm lucky the ferry pilot made it here. I
> expected some "old plane" problems, not thousands of dollars in
> substandard repairs. I have contacted the previous owner and am hoping
> to work something out. Has anyone experienced something like this? How
> did you deal with this?
>
> Linda
> N71467
>

[ncoastwmn]

Thanks for the advise. My plane is already buttoned up and available to
me while I make my decision about what to do. I understand about the
different types of blind rivets and tha's what we I will be replacing
the old ones with, if I don't just replace components. On to
conversations with the last mechanic and finding a second opinion.

Thanks, Linda
N71467

[[email protected]]

ncoastwmn wrote:
> Thanks for the advise. My plane is already buttoned up and available to
> me while I make my decision about what to do. I understand about the
> different types of blind rivets and tha's what we I will be replacing
> the old ones with, if I don't just replace components. On to
> conversations with the last mechanic and finding a second opinion.
>
> Thanks, Linda
> N71467

Linda,
Mike has given you excellent advice. On my first annual, I was told
that I had an illegal prop installed. It would be $2000 for a used one
to replace it. I investigated on my own and found out that the prop
wasn't illegal, it just had a part # that was hard to read which caused
the mechanic to look up erroneous information. You definitely need to
determine just what type of rivets are installed. As Mike has pointed
out, Cherrymax and some others are approved for major structural use by
Boeing, Lockheed and most aircraft companies. The Aerostar, an
expensive and high performance twin, came from the factory with
hundreds of them in the wing and elsewhere. Many homebuilts use Q type
pop rivets in major areas like the wing spar and they are holding up
well. If yours are in the wing skins as I suspect, it would not make it
dangerous for most types of pop rivets. The only place where many do
not recommend using them is in the engine inlet.
Like Mike said, don't panic. Check things out.

Bruce
N30464