AF/D's and NOTAM

[Andrew Sarangan]

I am curious how many of you routinely consult the AF/D prior to every
IFR flight. The reason is, a well known FAA inspector at a recent
safety seminar commented that those little green books were not of
much use anymore, and that most pilots simply don't use them. I was
surprised, because I've been in several occasions where certain
important NOTAMs were no longer available once they were printed in
the next AF/D publication cycle.

For example, the NDB 19 approach at CYO has a current approach chart.
There are no NOTAMs against it. But the NDB is no longer functioning.
It has been decommisioned. I don't know of any way a pilot could get
this information without a current AF/D.

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Andrew Sarangan > wrote:
>For example, the NDB 19 approach at CYO has a current approach chart.
>There are no NOTAMs against it. But the NDB is no longer functioning.
>It has been decommisioned. I don't know of any way a pilot could get
>this information without a current AF/D.

The notion that you can just document a problem and that's as good as
fixing it is bunk. It happens all the time on software projects. The
FAA seems to have bought into it in a big way. Permanent TFRs are a
perfect example.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Tarver Engineering]

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
news:%6kOb.89954$na.49173@attbi_s04...
> In article >,
> Andrew Sarangan > wrote:
> >For example, the NDB 19 approach at CYO has a current approach chart.
> >There are no NOTAMs against it. But the NDB is no longer functioning.
> >It has been decommisioned. I don't know of any way a pilot could get
> >this information without a current AF/D.
>
> The notion that you can just document a problem and that's as good as
> fixing it is bunk. It happens all the time on software projects. The
> FAA seems to have bought into it in a big way. Permanent TFRs are a
> perfect example.

There is a story behind that:

You see, there once was an airliner, so safe that none had crashed in 18
years. Long ago an error had been made in validation rules and a waypoint
identifier was removed from it's FMS database. (remove all doubles) Many
years later, the problem was corrected in the data base and a decision was
made to "fix the problem". Software was delivered, a service bulletin was
released and there was much rejoycing. Six months later, the foreign NOTAM
for the missing identifier was removed and the runway VOR was commissioned
by AA 965. Unfortunately, the service bulletin was never applied to the
airplane.

So you see, from the perspective of the system, fixing a problem is not
always a good plan.

[Ron Natalie]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
> For example, the NDB 19 approach at CYO has a current approach chart.
> There are no NOTAMs against it. But the NDB is no longer functioning.
> It has been decommisioned. I don't know of any way a pilot could get
> this information without a current AF/D.

The sectional chart notams are also in the AFD

[Roy Smith]

In article >,
"Ron Natalie" > wrote:

> "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
> > For example, the NDB 19 approach at CYO has a current approach chart.
> > There are no NOTAMs against it. But the NDB is no longer functioning.
> > It has been decommisioned. I don't know of any way a pilot could get
> > this information without a current AF/D.
>
> The sectional chart notams are also in the AFD
>

Can anybody give me a real-life example of a flight where they ran into
trouble because they hadn't gotten a sectional chart notam?

I can see how you could die if you don't have current approach plate
notams. But a sectional chart notam???

[Ron Natalie]

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message ...

>
> I can see how you could die if you don't have current approach plate
> notams. But a sectional chart notam???

Well, it wasn't limited to the chart notams, but we went through two sectional
revisions here before a local tower got to the charts. Of course, the regular
airport entry also noted to new info.

[Stan Gosnell]

(Andrew Sarangan) wrote in
om:

> For example, the NDB 19 approach at CYO has a current approach chart.
> There are no NOTAMs against it. But the NDB is no longer functioning.
> It has been decommisioned. I don't know of any way a pilot could get
> this information without a current AF/D.
>
Jepp publishes both chart notams, that come with updates, and Navdata
Notams, which are on a 7-day cycle, and list all nav facility notams and
outages.

--
Regards,

Stan

[Andrew Sarangan]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message >...
> "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
> > For example, the NDB 19 approach at CYO has a current approach chart.
> > There are no NOTAMs against it. But the NDB is no longer functioning.
> > It has been decommisioned. I don't know of any way a pilot could get
> > this information without a current AF/D.
>
> The sectional chart notams are also in the AFD

Absolutely. AF/D contains items such as misprints on the sectional,
frequency changes, towers etc...

[James M. Knox]

Roy Smith > wrote in news:roy-2BA69A.19165718012004
@reader2.panix.com:
>
> Can anybody give me a real-life example of a flight where they ran into
> trouble because they hadn't gotten a sectional chart notam?

Houston went through several sectional publications before they got the
Class-B correct (the whole thing was "rotated" about 10 degrees).
Fortunately, it was such a problem that they continued to list the notam on
DUATS.

A better example was out near San Angelo. There was an area out there that
was restricted (for high power radar testing). After a while it became
"published" and was in the back of the AF/D... but it still was NOT shown
on the sectional. Not only was it illegal, but flying through a giant
microwave oven can be hazardous to your health.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

[Snowbird]

Roy Smith > wrote in message >...

> Can anybody give me a real-life example of a flight where they ran into
> trouble because they hadn't gotten a sectional chart notam?

> I can see how you could die if you don't have current approach plate
> notams. But a sectional chart notam???

Well, I've twice had it happen that an airport I was flying to
changed UNICOM frequency in the middle of a chart cycle. It
was a published NOTAM, so not given as part of a standard FSS
briefing, but it was not on the current sectional charts nor
in the current AF/D. One I got off DUATS, one I missed.

Hopefully everyone has their eyes peeled and it wasn't a matter
of life and death, but it was definately inconvenient not to
mention somewhat embarrassing :( :(.

Cheers,
Sydney