Non existent VOR

[john smith]

I flew from Ohio to Florida early this week. The third leg was from
Valdosta (KVLD) GA to West Palm Beach (KPBI) FL.
My originally filed route was amended twice before I got 25 miles. JAX
Center gave me PHK (Pahokee VOR) as my final fix before KPBI.
As I was nearing the east shore of Lake Okeechobee, the approach
controller asked me if I was going direct to some intersection.
I responded that I was flying direct PHK.
He then told me PHK had disappeared in one of the hurricanes last year.
I told him that I was going to ask if any had reported that the VOR was
out of service, as I had not been receiving any signal on the nav
receiver.
There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
(IFR and Sectionals).
Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
This one gets a NASA Form 277.

[Jim Macklin]

It must be George Bush's fault, you know that FEMA and
Homeland Security follow President Bush's evil plans. They
must be planning to have Teddy Kennedy fly into the Bermuda
Triangle due to lack of guidance.


"john smith" > wrote in message
...
|I flew from Ohio to Florida early this week. The third leg
was from
| Valdosta (KVLD) GA to West Palm Beach (KPBI) FL.
| My originally filed route was amended twice before I got
25 miles. JAX
| Center gave me PHK (Pahokee VOR) as my final fix before
KPBI.
| As I was nearing the east shore of Lake Okeechobee, the
approach
| controller asked me if I was going direct to some
intersection.
| I responded that I was flying direct PHK.
| He then told me PHK had disappeared in one of the
hurricanes last year.
| I told him that I was going to ask if any had reported
that the VOR was
| out of service, as I had not been receiving any signal on
the nav
| receiver.
| There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me
an amended
| clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the
new charts
| (IFR and Sectionals).
| Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid
did not exist.
| This one gets a NASA Form 277.

[Bob Noel]

In article <DzEXf.7492$t22.6504@dukeread08>,
"Jim Macklin" > wrote:

> It must be George Bush's fault, you know that FEMA and
> Homeland Security follow President Bush's evil plans. They
> must be planning to have Teddy Kennedy fly into the Bermuda
> Triangle due to lack of guidance.


well, at least that would be safer than expecting Ted to
drive there.

:-/

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Sam Spade]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> It must be George Bush's fault, you know that FEMA and
> Homeland Security follow President Bush's evil plans. They
> must be planning to have Teddy Kennedy fly into the Bermuda
> Triangle due to lack of guidance.

You Bushies love to use sarcasm to defend King George.

He had an evil plan but it wasn't Homeland Security or Katrina.~

His evil plan was committing this country to a folly in Iraq that was
bleed the federal treasury dry. Pretty much everyone agrees that we are
now stuck there and bleeding literally and fiscally.

That's why King George couldn't do any better with Katrina than he did.
I have no doubt he would have done better had there been any
money left.

When you GA guys start paying users' fees, keep in mind that is King
George at work, too.

[Bob Noel]

In article <ckFXf.14864$6a1.2932@fed1read04>, Sam Spade >
wrote:

> When you GA guys start paying users' fees, keep in mind that is King
> George at work, too.

you mean the user fees pushed during Clinton/Gore?

oops. Sorry, didn't mean to inject actual fact into any anti-Bush subthread.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Sam Spade]

Bob Noel wrote:
> In article <ckFXf.14864$6a1.2932@fed1read04>, Sam Spade >
> wrote:
>
>
>>When you GA guys start paying users' fees, keep in mind that is King
>>George at work, too.
>
>
> you mean the user fees pushed during Clinton/Gore?
>
> oops. Sorry, didn't mean to inject actual fact into any anti-Bush subthread.
>
Sure, those Demo boys knew the country was overextended, so they floated
that concept.

And, I agree, had Gore been elected rather than Bush in 2000 user fees
*may* have come to pass sooner.

But, they will come to pass under King George, because we now have no
choice.

Yes, I am anti-Bush, and I didn't like Gore either.

King George has expanded federal spending and the deficient beyond the
wildest dreams of the tax-and-spend lefties.

[Bob Noel]

In article <YEGXf.14873$6a1.3816@fed1read04>, Sam Spade >
wrote:

> King George has expanded federal spending and the deficient beyond the
> wildest dreams of the tax-and-spend lefties.

The President doesn't appropriate money. Try to learn what branch of
the Federal government does what...

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[LWG]

But this time Mary Jo Kopechne gets to drive, er, fly.

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:DzEXf.7492$t22.6504@dukeread08...
> It must be George Bush's fault, you know that FEMA and
> Homeland Security follow President Bush's evil plans. They
> must be planning to have Teddy Kennedy fly into the Bermuda
> Triangle due to lack of guidance.
>
>
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> |I flew from Ohio to Florida early this week. The third leg
>

[Stubby]

Bob Noel wrote:
> In article <YEGXf.14873$6a1.3816@fed1read04>, Sam Spade >
> wrote:
>
>> King George has expanded federal spending and the deficient beyond the
>> wildest dreams of the tax-and-spend lefties.
>
> The President doesn't appropriate money. Try to learn what branch of
> the Federal government does what...
>
And Government policy is not decided by popularity polls or loud
expressions of pain and discomfort. Further, childish disrespect for
the President is unlikely to accomplish anything.

[Sam Spade]

Bob Noel wrote:
> In article <YEGXf.14873$6a1.3816@fed1read04>, Sam Spade >
> wrote:
>
>
>>King George has expanded federal spending and the deficient beyond the
>>wildest dreams of the tax-and-spend lefties.
>
>
> The President doesn't appropriate money. Try to learn what branch of
> the Federal government does what...
>
Oh, you mean the Consititutional mandate that Congress must *approve*
appropriation bills?

Who submits those appropriations for the most part, and who provides the
leadership for discretionary spending?

Again, your sarcasm shows more heat than light.

Congress invaded Iraq?

[Jim Macklin]

For many years, Congress always said that the President's
budget was "dead on arrival" because they never followed it.

The mandate is that all tax bills must begin in the House,
the President is supposed to submit a proposed budget and
the Senate confirms appointments and treaties.

One of the charges against R.M. Nixon was that he refused to
spend all the money that Congress appropriated, he exercised
administrative powers. So as part of the post-Watergate
"reforms" Congress wrote the law on the budget and President
Ford, a long term member of Congress signed it into law.
The change in the budget process exactly coincides with the
run-away national debt and increasing deficit spending. The
change, all budget items are expected to increase 10% per
year so 110% become the base amount. This is baseline
budgeting.

Also, the President is REQUIRED by law to spend every dime
Congress appropriates, he has only one administrative power,
he can veto a bill. This failure of George Bush, and his
signing of McCain-Fiengold, may be his worst failures as
President.

Look at the books that have graphs of the Federal debt and
note that the debt was level from the end of WWII to the
Viet Nam war, with just spikes, but after Watergate the
budget, debt and spending went nearly straight up.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Sam Spade" > wrote in message
news:KlPXf.14898$6a1.12239@fed1read04...
| Bob Noel wrote:
| > In article <YEGXf.14873$6a1.3816@fed1read04>, Sam Spade
>
| > wrote:
| >
| >
| >>King George has expanded federal spending and the
deficient beyond the
| >>wildest dreams of the tax-and-spend lefties.
| >
| >
| > The President doesn't appropriate money. Try to learn
what branch of
| > the Federal government does what...
| >
| Oh, you mean the Consititutional mandate that Congress
must *approve*
| appropriation bills?
|
| Who submits those appropriations for the most part, and
who provides the
| leadership for discretionary spending?
|
| Again, your sarcasm shows more heat than light.
|
| Congress invaded Iraq?

[Michelle]

john smith wrote:
> I flew from Ohio to Florida early this week. The third leg was from
> Valdosta (KVLD) GA to West Palm Beach (KPBI) FL.
> My originally filed route was amended twice before I got 25 miles. JAX
> Center gave me PHK (Pahokee VOR) as my final fix before KPBI.
> As I was nearing the east shore of Lake Okeechobee, the approach
> controller asked me if I was going direct to some intersection.
> I responded that I was flying direct PHK.
> He then told me PHK had disappeared in one of the hurricanes last year.
> I told him that I was going to ask if any had reported that the VOR was
> out of service, as I had not been receiving any signal on the nav
> receiver.
> There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
> clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
> (IFR and Sectionals).
> Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
> This one gets a NASA Form 277.

It was probably way past computer Notam status. Most likely in the
printed version.
Did you check the updates in your IAPs?
Michelle

[john smith]

> It was probably way past computer Notam status. Most likely in the
> printed version.
> Did you check the updates in your IAPs?

Forgot that source. Thanks Michelle, I'll look.

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:03:30 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
> wrote:

>Look at the books that have graphs of the Federal debt and
>note that the debt was level from the end of WWII to the
>Viet Nam war, with just spikes, but after Watergate the
>budget, debt and spending went nearly straight up.

As did the Consumer Price Index. So was inflation driving the budget and
debt, or was it the other way around?


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[roncachamp]

john smith wrote:
>
>I flew from Ohio to Florida early this week. The third leg was from
> Valdosta (KVLD) GA to West Palm Beach (KPBI) FL.
> My originally filed route was amended twice before I got 25 miles. JAX
> Center gave me PHK (Pahokee VOR) as my final fix before KPBI.
> As I was nearing the east shore of Lake Okeechobee, the approach
> controller asked me if I was going direct to some intersection.
> I responded that I was flying direct PHK.
> He then told me PHK had disappeared in one of the hurricanes last year.
> I told him that I was going to ask if any had reported that the VOR was
> out of service, as I had not been receiving any signal on the nav
> receiver.
> There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
> clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
> (IFR and Sectionals).
> Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
> This one gets a NASA Form 277.
>

Was PHK part of your original route? A search at the NOTAM site
produced this:


KPHK PALM BEACH CO GLADES

11/102 - HIWAS OTS WIE UNTIL UFN

11/015 - VORTAC OTS WIE UNTIL UFN



http://www.aviationweatherbrief.com/na/notam.html

[Jim Macklin]

Budget driven by Congressional methods, inflation was
keeping score of the devalued money.

1960, Federal budget was about 88 Billion dollars, 1962
JFK's first budget was 101 Billion dollars and it caused an
outrage for a peace-time budget. JFK proposed 20 billion to
go to moon in ten years, then LBJ had the Great Society
which was just welfare and entitlement spending. Even so,
it was kept in check by the budget policy laws and the
Presidential powers of veto and impoundment.
Inflation is caused by monetary policy and the printing
press. Wages and prices follow the declining value of the
money trying to keep hourly equivalent value.

WWII was financed by bonds at fixed interest rates. Some
government accountant figured out that inflation reduced the
cost to the government of repaying those guaranteed loans
[bonds] which means that only the government profits from
inflation. Banks and companies or individuals are harmed by
the loss of value of their money and debt.

It is so easy to spend money and have nothing to show but
debt a year later. College kids buy pizza and beer with a
Visa card, government buys votes with "free" medical care
and food. Rather than building and then maintaining the
roads and bridges, the government buys more votes with some
"new" programs.

I would like to see spending follow the Constitutional
priorities, military and defense first, but that will not
happen, too may special interests seeking government money
for their private projects [stadiums come to mind] rather
than the essential services that only a government can
provide [defense of the nation].


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Ron Rosenfeld" > wrote in message
...
| On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:03:30 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| > wrote:
|
| >Look at the books that have graphs of the Federal debt
and
| >note that the debt was level from the end of WWII to the
| >Viet Nam war, with just spikes, but after Watergate the
| >budget, debt and spending went nearly straight up.
|
| As did the Consumer Price Index. So was inflation driving
the budget and
| debt, or was it the other way around?
|
|
| Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 22:59:00 GMT, john smith > wrote:

>I flew from Ohio to Florida early this week. The third leg was from
>Valdosta (KVLD) GA to West Palm Beach (KPBI) FL.
>My originally filed route was amended twice before I got 25 miles. JAX
>Center gave me PHK (Pahokee VOR) as my final fix before KPBI.
>As I was nearing the east shore of Lake Okeechobee, the approach
>controller asked me if I was going direct to some intersection.
>I responded that I was flying direct PHK.
>He then told me PHK had disappeared in one of the hurricanes last year.
>I told him that I was going to ask if any had reported that the VOR was
>out of service, as I had not been receiving any signal on the nav
>receiver.
>There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
>clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
>(IFR and Sectionals).
>Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
>This one gets a NASA Form 277.

How did you brief your flight?

I just entered a similar flight into DUATS (KVLD PHK KPBI) and then
requested a briefing. Amongst the NOTAMS:

!MIA 11/102 PHK HIWAS OTS
!MIA 11/015 PHK VORTAC OTS


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[john smith]

> How did you brief your flight?

Live briefing from Macon FSS.

[Dave S]

john smith wrote:
>>How did you brief your flight?
>
>
> Live briefing from Macon FSS.

Some feedback might be in order...

Dave

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 01:19:46 GMT, john smith > wrote:

>> How did you brief your flight?
>
>Live briefing from Macon FSS.

I would certainly let them know that they blew this one.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Ronnie]

From AIM 5-1-1 paragraph D:

d. FSSs are required to advise of pertinent NOTAMs if a standard briefing is
requested, but if they are overlooked, don't hesitate to remind the
specialist that you have not received NOTAM information.

NOTE-
NOTAMs which are known in sufficient time for publication and are of 7 days
duration or longer are normally incorporated into the Notices to Airmen
Publication and carried there until cancellation time. FDC NOTAMs, which
apply to instrument flight procedures, are also included in the Notices to
Airmen Publication up to and including the number indicated in the FDC NOTAM
legend. Printed NOTAMs are not provided during a briefing unless
specifically requested by the pilot since the FSS specialist has no way of
knowing whether the pilot has already checked the Notices to Airmen
Publication prior to calling. Remember to ask for NOTAMs in the Notices to
Airmen Publication. This information is not normally furnished during your
briefing.

REFERENCE-
AIM, Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) System, Paragraph 5-1-3.

Therefore, you have to specifically ask for the printed NOTAMs
when talking to a flight briefer. DUATs briefings DO include the
printed NOTAMs in every case I've checked.

Ronnie

"Ron Rosenfeld" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 01:19:46 GMT, john smith > wrote:
>
>>> How did you brief your flight?
>>
>>Live briefing from Macon FSS.
>
> I would certainly let them know that they blew this one.
> Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Dave Butler]

Michelle wrote:
> john smith wrote:

>> There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
>> clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
>> (IFR and Sectionals).
>> Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
>> This one gets a NASA Form 277.
>
>
> It was probably way past computer Notam status. Most likely in the
> printed version.
> Did you check the updates in your IAPs?

It's even there in a DUAT briefing I just pulled down:

******** NOTAMs ********
!MIA 11/102 PHK HIWAS OTS
!MIA 11/015 PHK VORTAC OTS

[Dave Butler]

john smith wrote:
>>How did you brief your flight?
>
>
> Live briefing from Macon FSS.

....more validation for my policy of avoiding this type of briefing whenever
possible.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1144074189.245618@sj-nntpcache-5...
>
> It's even there in a DUAT briefing I just pulled down:
>
> ******** NOTAMs ********
> !MIA 11/102 PHK HIWAS OTS
> !MIA 11/015 PHK VORTAC OTS
>

Okay, he didn't get a stellar briefing, but that doesn't alter the fact that
he was assigned the route over PHK by JAX ARTCC. They should have known
better.

[Jose]

> that doesn't alter the fact that
> he was assigned the route over PHK by JAX ARTCC.

Did he have GPS? Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the
aircraft can still navigate it?

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Newps]

Jose wrote:

>
> Did he have GPS? Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the
> aircraft can still navigate it?

No. Give the FAA time, they're new to this GPS stuff. They just
recently stopped notaming an ILS OTS when the DME would be taken out of
service and that DME was listed on the plate as required. They just
figured out that most people aren't using DME.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jose" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Did he have GPS?
>

I don't think so. He didn't mention GPS and he said he had not been
receiving any signal from PHK on his nav receiver.


>
> Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the aircraft
> can still navigate it?
>

Yes, if the aircraft is /E, /F, /G, or /R.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Did he have GPS? Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the
>> aircraft can still navigate it?
>>
>
> No. Give the FAA time, they're new to this GPS stuff. They just recently
> stopped notaming an ILS OTS when the DME would be taken out of service and
> that DME was listed on the plate as required. They just figured out that
> most people aren't using DME.
>

FAA Order 7110.65R

Air Traffic Control

Chapter 4. IFR

Section 4. Route Assignment

4-4-4. ALTERNATIVE ROUTES

When any part of an airway or route is unusable because of NAVAID status,
clear aircraft other than /E, /F, /G, or /R, via one of the following
alternative routes:

a. A route depicted on current U.S. Government charts/publications. Use the
word "substitute" immediately preceding the alternative route in issuing the
clearance.

b. A route defined by specifying NAVAID radials, courses, or azimuths.

c. A route defined as direct to or between NAVAIDs.

d. Vectors.

NOTE-
Inform area navigation aircraft that will proceed to the NAVAID location of
the NAVAID outage.

[john smith]

> > Did he have GPS?

> I don't think so. He didn't mention GPS and he said he had not been
> receiving any signal from PHK on his nav receiver.

I had a Garmin GPS 195 portable and a King KLN 89A in the panel with an
out of date database. I did not file any remarks indicating that I had
area nav on board.

> > Can you not assign a route via dead VORs if the aircraft
> > can still navigate it?

> Yes, if the aircraft is /E, /F, /G, or /R.

I filed /A

[Steven Barnes]

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1144074189.245618@sj-nntpcache-5...
> Michelle wrote:
> > john smith wrote:
>
> >> There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
> >> clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
> >> (IFR and Sectionals).
> >> Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
> >> This one gets a NASA Form 277.
> >
> >
> > It was probably way past computer Notam status. Most likely in the
> > printed version.
> > Did you check the updates in your IAPs?
>
> It's even there in a DUAT briefing I just pulled down:
>
> ******** NOTAMs ********
> !MIA 11/102 PHK HIWAS OTS
> !MIA 11/015 PHK VORTAC OTS


I'm late in joining this thread, but on an Angel Flight a year or so ago, I
was happily moving along my IFR flight plan following airways when IND
approach told my the Hoosier VOR was OTS. I was never told that during my
briefing. 3 seconds after an "uhh... stand by" on my part, IND offered
vector direct to my next VOR. Duh. D -> next waypoint & we're off. Actually
shaved a few minutes off, anyway.
It did kind of surprise me, though.

[Dave Butler]

Steven Barnes wrote:

> I'm late in joining this thread, but on an Angel Flight a year or so ago, I
> was happily moving along my IFR flight plan following airways when IND
> approach told my the Hoosier VOR was OTS. I was never told that during my
> briefing. 3 seconds after an "uhh... stand by" on my part, IND offered
> vector direct to my next VOR. Duh. D -> next waypoint & we're off. Actually
> shaved a few minutes off, anyway.
> It did kind of surprise me, though.

I've also seen (on an Angel flight, coincidentally) that I knew from NOTAMs that
a VOR was scheduled to go OTS for maintenance during my flight, and should go
out of service about the time I got to it. I was surprised to find I received
the identifier, and queried ATC - was the VOR operational or not? They had no
clue. Shortly after that the identifier stopped, and I informed ATC I would be
out of navaid range for a few minutes and requested they monitor my track, which
they agreed to do.

Curiosity question for ATCers: how do you find out about inop navaids?

Dave

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1144158392.686044@sj-nntpcache-3...
>
> I've also seen (on an Angel flight, coincidentally) that I knew from
> NOTAMs that a VOR was scheduled to go OTS for maintenance during my
> flight, and should go out of service about the time I got to it. I was
> surprised to find I received the identifier, and queried ATC - was the VOR
> operational or not? They had no clue. Shortly after that the identifier
> stopped, and I informed ATC I would be out of navaid range for a few
> minutes and requested they monitor my track, which they agreed to do.
>
> Curiosity question for ATCers: how do you find out about inop navaids?
>

Requests for maintenance outages on NAVAIDs within the airspace delegated to
the facility are made by Airway Facilities. If they're approved, we show
the NAVAID OTS. If a NAVAID in an adjacent facility is OTS we're generally
notified by that facility.

[Mark Hansen]

On 04/04/06 06:37, Dave Butler wrote:
> Steven Barnes wrote:
>
>> I'm late in joining this thread, but on an Angel Flight a year or so ago, I
>> was happily moving along my IFR flight plan following airways when IND
>> approach told my the Hoosier VOR was OTS. I was never told that during my
>> briefing. 3 seconds after an "uhh... stand by" on my part, IND offered
>> vector direct to my next VOR. Duh. D -> next waypoint & we're off. Actually
>> shaved a few minutes off, anyway.
>> It did kind of surprise me, though.
>
> I've also seen (on an Angel flight, coincidentally) that I knew from NOTAMs that
> a VOR was scheduled to go OTS for maintenance during my flight, and should go
> out of service about the time I got to it. I was surprised to find I received
> the identifier, and queried ATC - was the VOR operational or not? They had no
> clue. Shortly after that the identifier stopped, and I informed ATC I would be
> out of navaid range for a few minutes and requested they monitor my track, which
> they agreed to do.

I'm not criticizing, but am just curious: Why did you plan your flight
route such that it depended on the VOR even when it was NOTAM'd to be OTS?

>
> Curiosity question for ATCers: how do you find out about inop navaids?
>
> Dave


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Dave Butler]

Mark Hansen wrote:

> I'm not criticizing, but am just curious: Why did you plan your flight
> route such that it depended on the VOR even when it was NOTAM'd to be OTS?

Because I knew I could safely navigate without the VOR. I was carrying a
handheld GPS, I planned to be in contact with ATC, the weather was severe clear,
the terrain was flat. I could easily have navigated visually or by dead
reckoning if necessary.

[Stan Gosnell]

john smith > wrote in news:jsmith-ED8342.17581501042006
@network-065-024-007-028.columbus.rr.com:

> I flew from Ohio to Florida early this week. The third leg was from
> Valdosta (KVLD) GA to West Palm Beach (KPBI) FL.
> My originally filed route was amended twice before I got 25 miles. JAX
> Center gave me PHK (Pahokee VOR) as my final fix before KPBI.
> As I was nearing the east shore of Lake Okeechobee, the approach
> controller asked me if I was going direct to some intersection.
> I responded that I was flying direct PHK.
> He then told me PHK had disappeared in one of the hurricanes last year.
> I told him that I was going to ask if any had reported that the VOR was
> out of service, as I had not been receiving any signal on the nav
> receiver.
> There was no NOTAM in any of my briefings, center gave me an amended
> clearance with the fix included, and it is charted on the new charts
> (IFR and Sectionals).
> Only the local controllers told seem to know the navaid did not exist.
> This one gets a NASA Form 277.

Sorry, I haven't had time to read this group for awhile, so I'm replying
to a rather old post.

The Sabine Pass (SBI) and Leeville (LEV) VORs were also destroyed by
Katrina and Rita. LEV is back up, but AFAIK SBI is still OTS (at least
it was a couple of weeks ago). You have to check the NOTAMs for stuff
like this, that's what they're for.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin