Strange and/or really difficult approaches

[SeeAndAvoid]

Howdy all,
Got into a discussion of the strangest and/or most difficult instrument
approach procedures with some friends recently. One guy used the
GUC ILS RWY6 as an example (rules: you do NOT have GPS, are /A direct HBU
from the NE, and CANNOT be vectored to the LOC due to radar coverage, a
typical scenario coming from Denver).

My example was the ONT NDB RWY26L procedure (rules: you start SW of PDZ,
cleared -PDZ then cleared for approach, no GPS, not that it should matter
here.) Using MS FS2004, which is what I goof off with for these practice
approaches, doesnt do this one justice as, if I remember right, the HDF VOR
is barely giving off a decent signal between HIGRO and PETIS.

I'm sure there are stranger or more difficult procedures than these.
Anyone got any to share?

Chris

[Jim Weir]

There is one approach plate I saw for one of the Caribbean Islands, Haiti as I
recall. The approach corridor was about one mile wide and the annotation
outside that corridor said, "Violators Fired Upon".

Jim



->I'm sure there are stranger or more difficult procedures than these.
->Anyone got any to share?
->
->Chris
->



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Jim Weir > wrote:
>There is one approach plate I saw for one of the Caribbean Islands, Haiti as I
>recall. The approach corridor was about one mile wide and the annotation
>outside that corridor said, "Violators Fired Upon".

So when I see 'navaid unmonitored' that's what I don't have to worry about?

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Marty Shapiro]

Take a look at the JFK VOR RWY13.

I first learned about this approach as a passenger listening to ATC. After
the flight, I asked the pilot about it. He said the approach is simply
legalized scud running.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Marty Shapiro > wrote:
>Take a look at the JFK VOR RWY13.

Wow, if that's not a '-A' approach what is? The MAP more than 90 degrees
off runway heading (you're actually heading slightly AWAY from the
airport).

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Doug Rinks]

Haiti has the Bowen military airfield which should not be flown over
on approach into Port-Au-Prince Airport. It is just a few miles off to
the south of Runway 9/27.

Doug

Jim Weir > wrote in message >...
> There is one approach plate I saw for one of the Caribbean Islands, Haiti as I
> recall. The approach corridor was about one mile wide and the annotation
> outside that corridor said, "Violators Fired Upon".
>
> Jim

[SeeAndAvoid]

Yep, thats a strange one alright. Unfortunately FS2004 doesnt have LDIN
lights, but I gave it a whirl anyway. Why would the procedure be
unauthorized without the lead-in lights? Get to DMYHL, if you see the
airport you proceed, if you don't you go missed.

FS vectored me all over the place, shipped me to McGuire(?) Apch, then
cleared me for the VOR RWY13L circle to RWY 4R! Go figure that one out.
There is no circling procedure on this approach, then when I was halfway
between CRI and DMYHL they cleared me to land STRAIGHT IN RWY 4R! Kind of
tough from that angle. Anymore I think I'll just self clear as FS still has
a way to go with its ATC service.

Thanks for the approach,
Chris


"Marty Shapiro" > wrote in message
...
> Take a look at the JFK VOR RWY13.
>
> I first learned about this approach as a passenger listening to ATC.
After
> the flight, I asked the pilot about it. He said the approach is simply
> legalized scud running.
>
> --
> Marty Shapiro
> Silicon Rallye Inc.
>
> (remove SPAMNOT to email me)

[[email protected]]

SeeAndAvoid wrote:

> Yep, thats a strange one alright. Unfortunately FS2004 doesnt have LDIN
> lights, but I gave it a whirl anyway. Why would the procedure be
> unauthorized without the lead-in lights? Get to DMYHL, if you see the
> airport you proceed, if you don't you go missed.

That misses the point of the real procedure. With the Lead In lights you can
proceed beyond the missed approach point without seeing the runway until a lot
closer to the airport. Without the Lead In lights and during restricted
visibility conditions the chances are pretty good that some big jets would end
up wandering around off track very low over some very noise sensitive
neighborhoods.

Those approaches are there to minimize noise until the weather gets really bad,
then they switch to the ILS Runway 13L.

The "Carnisie" VOR approach has been around since the 1960s. Most airline
pilots that go into JFK are quite familiar with how to use it, unlike someone
showing up without a clue.

[[email protected]]

SeeAndAvoid wrote:

> , if I remember right, the HDF VOR
> is barely giving off a decent signal between HIGRO and PETIS.

The radial wouldn't pass flight inspection if it wasn't good enough for that
purpose.

[Robert Moore]

"SeeAndAvoid" wrote
> Yep, thats a strange one alright. Unfortunately FS2004 doesnt have LDIN
> lights, but I gave it a whirl anyway. Why would the procedure be
> unauthorized without the lead-in lights? Get to DMYHL, if you see the
> airport you proceed, if you don't you go missed.

The whole purpose of the Canarsie 13 approach is noise abatement.
Keep those noisey jets away from as many houses as possible and
without the lead-in lights to keep the flight-path in close to the
airport, the pilots would naturally fly a more comfortable, wider
approach. There is an ILS to runway 13, but it is only used when
the weather does not permit use of the Canarsie VOR approach.
Runway 13L is the primary arrival runway while 13R is used mostly
for departures.
Noise rules for JFK require that the active runway be changed about
every six hours regardless of the wind direction.

Bob Moore

[Roy Smith]

In article >, wrote:
> The "Carnisie" VOR approach has been around since the 1960s. Most airline
> pilots that go into JFK are quite familiar with how to use it, unlike someone
> showing up without a clue.

The wierd thing is I grew up in that area in the 60's. I remember those
funny looking upward-pointing flashing lights on poles by the Belt
Parkway. I knew they had to do with airplanes landing at JFK, but it
never occurred to me that they were anything out of the ordinary.

[Mateo]

Robert Moore wrote:

> approach. There is an ILS to runway 13, but it is only used when
> the weather does not permit use of the Canarsie VOR approach.
> Runway 13L is the primary arrival runway while 13R is used mostly
> for departures.


The ILS 13L also royally screws with EWR, LGA, and TEB airspace, and is
used pretty much as a last resort.