Uncontrolled airport departure-again...

[endre]

I know this question has probably been answered thousand times before
on this forum. I am based at s50 in washington with no instrument
approach or departure procedure. It is class G to 1200 and then class
e plus some class b around.

How can I depart IFR from this airport? Do i need to depart VFR and
stay below 1200 and pick up my clearance or can I get a void time
clearance, be responsible for my own obstacle clearance and separation
and depart essentially at 0/0 (if i ever thought that was a good
idea?) The minimum vectoring altitude is 2000 feet. Just thinking
about those days where the ceiling is 800-1200 or a 400 feet fog layer
where it would be nice to get out.

[Mike Rapoport]

Get a clearance by calling from your cell phone. Obstical clearance is your
responsibility.

Mike
MU-2

"endre" > wrote in message
om...
> I know this question has probably been answered thousand times before
> on this forum. I am based at s50 in washington with no instrument
> approach or departure procedure. It is class G to 1200 and then class
> e plus some class b around.
>
> How can I depart IFR from this airport? Do i need to depart VFR and
> stay below 1200 and pick up my clearance or can I get a void time
> clearance, be responsible for my own obstacle clearance and separation
> and depart essentially at 0/0 (if i ever thought that was a good
> idea?) The minimum vectoring altitude is 2000 feet. Just thinking
> about those days where the ceiling is 800-1200 or a 400 feet fog layer
> where it would be nice to get out.

[Dan Luke]

"endre" wrote:
> How can I depart IFR from this airport? Do i need to depart VFR and
> stay below 1200 and pick up my clearance or can I get a void time
> clearance...

Look in the back of the Airport/Facilities Directory for your FSS
clearance delivery phone number. Call them for a void time clearance if
you can't maintain VFR up to radar altitude.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

[Robert Henry]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Get a clearance by calling from your cell phone. Obstical clearance is
your
> responsibility.
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>

There is never a time on initial departure when obstacle clearance is not
the responsibility of the pilot - controlled or uncontrolled.

[Jeff]

I will add to the suggestions you got,
If you have a tower near your airport, you can call them or, as when I was
doing my instrument training, we flew into and out of cedar city Ut. no
tower, so we called center and got our clearance from them.
I fly out of HND and VGT, when the tower is closed, I call LAS.

I looked up your airport, it looks like SEA is only about 7 miles from
you, I would call them for your clearance. File with FSS, then about 15
minutes before your ready to go, call them on the radio and tell them who
you are, where you are and what you want.

endre wrote:

> I know this question has probably been answered thousand times before
> on this forum. I am based at s50 in washington with no instrument
> approach or departure procedure. It is class G to 1200 and then class
> e plus some class b around.
>
> How can I depart IFR from this airport? Do i need to depart VFR and
> stay below 1200 and pick up my clearance or can I get a void time
> clearance, be responsible for my own obstacle clearance and separation
> and depart essentially at 0/0 (if i ever thought that was a good
> idea?) The minimum vectoring altitude is 2000 feet. Just thinking
> about those days where the ceiling is 800-1200 or a 400 feet fog layer
> where it would be nice to get out.

[smf]

I departed an airport recently (uncontrolled) and called fss and filed.
After taxi and runup called (cell phone) again and got clearance.

Steve
"endre" > wrote in message
om...
> I know this question has probably been answered thousand times before
> on this forum. I am based at s50 in washington with no instrument
> approach or departure procedure. It is class G to 1200 and then class
> e plus some class b around.
>
> How can I depart IFR from this airport? Do i need to depart VFR and
> stay below 1200 and pick up my clearance or can I get a void time
> clearance, be responsible for my own obstacle clearance and separation
> and depart essentially at 0/0 (if i ever thought that was a good
> idea?) The minimum vectoring altitude is 2000 feet. Just thinking
> about those days where the ceiling is 800-1200 or a 400 feet fog layer
> where it would be nice to get out.

[[email protected]]

Robert Henry wrote:

> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Get a clearance by calling from your cell phone. Obstical clearance is
> your
> > responsibility.
> >
> > Mike
> > MU-2
> >
>
> There is never a time on initial departure when obstacle clearance is not
> the responsibility of the pilot - controlled or uncontrolled.

When is there a time when obstacle clearance is not the responsibility of the
pilot? The only difference at a VFR airport is the feds don't provide you a
procedure to help you fulfill that responsibility.

[Mike Rapoport]

Yes thats true. I was referring to the fact that, without a obstacle DP,
you are on your own in determining whether or not you will clear
obstructions.

Mike
MU-2

"Robert Henry" > wrote in message
news:MNy_b.2362$TT5.1291@lakeread06...
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Get a clearance by calling from your cell phone. Obstical clearance is
> your
> > responsibility.
> >
> > Mike
> > MU-2
> >
>
> There is never a time on initial departure when obstacle clearance is not
> the responsibility of the pilot - controlled or uncontrolled.
>
>

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
endre > wrote:
>I know this question has probably been answered thousand times before
>on this forum. I am based at s50 in washington with no instrument
>approach or departure procedure.

In the Portland area there's a frequency for uncontrolled airports
to use (119.95 iirc). At 7S3 there's one spot on the airport where
it's usable, so you taxi over, get a void time, depart and call
Portland Departure.

I don't see anything like that in the Seattle area, though. Are
such services common? Would SEA think you were off your nut if
you managed to raise them on 128.0 and said 'on the ground at Auburn'?

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"endre" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I know this question has probably been answered thousand times before
> on this forum. I am based at s50 in washington with no instrument
> approach or departure procedure. It is class G to 1200 and then class
> e plus some class b around.
>
> How can I depart IFR from this airport?
>

I'd try calling Seattle approach on 119.2. You're only 8 miles from SEA,
you may be able to get them on the ground at S50. Give it a try next time
you're at S50.

Incidentally, it's Class G to 700 MSL over S50, not 1200


>
> Do i need to depart VFR and
> stay below 1200 and pick up my clearance or can I get a void time
> clearance, be responsible for my own obstacle clearance and separation
> and depart essentially at 0/0 (if i ever thought that was a good
> idea?)
>

Controlled airspace begins at 700 AGL and the base of Class B airspace is
3000 MSL over S50. If it's VFR all you have to do is avoid Class B airspace
until getting a clearance. If it's below VFR minimums you have to have an
IFR clearance before you climb into Class E airspace at 700 AGL.

[airbourne56]

I've flown IFR out of a number of "remote" airports and something that
I've always found to work is to simply ask FSS. When you file your
flight plan, just ask FSS who you need to contact for your clearance.
If you have any doubt about how to contact that controlling agency,
ask. My experience is that FSS is always happy to help. My clearances
have been via FSS, Center, local Approach Control by phone, and local
Approach Control via a RCO (if it's an RCO, be sure to tell them where
you are and what frequency you're calling on. They might not need
that, but it removes any doubt). All of these work just great. The
nice thing about some of these remote locations is the clearance void
times are so generous that you have enough time to make another trip
to the john before engine start. I've never had FSS steer me wrong on
how to accomplish the IFR clearance. As far as obstacle clearance.
There is a standard climb rate that assures obstacle clearance (I
think it's 200 feet per mile). Check the regs. If a climb rate greater
than that, or certain headings or courses are required to assure
clearance, they'll be stipulated in the departure procedures (e.g.
"upon departure, fly outbound ARB course 240 until reaching 4000 feet
then proceed on course"). Just follow what they say and you're in the
clear. If you can't comply, stay on the ground unless or until you can
visually assure obstacle clearance.



"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message . net>...
> "endre" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > I know this question has probably been answered thousand times before
> > on this forum. I am based at s50 in washington with no instrument
> > approach or departure procedure. It is class G to 1200 and then class
> > e plus some class b around.
> >
> > How can I depart IFR from this airport?
> >
>
> I'd try calling Seattle approach on 119.2. You're only 8 miles from SEA,
> you may be able to get them on the ground at S50. Give it a try next time
> you're at S50.
>
> Incidentally, it's Class G to 700 MSL over S50, not 1200
>
>
> >
> > Do i need to depart VFR and
> > stay below 1200 and pick up my clearance or can I get a void time
> > clearance, be responsible for my own obstacle clearance and separation
> > and depart essentially at 0/0 (if i ever thought that was a good
> > idea?)
> >
>
> Controlled airspace begins at 700 AGL and the base of Class B airspace is
> 3000 MSL over S50. If it's VFR all you have to do is avoid Class B airspace
> until getting a clearance. If it's below VFR minimums you have to have an
> IFR clearance before you climb into Class E airspace at 700 AGL.

[Doug]

I used the "ask the instructor" trick and the guy gave me bad info. He
told me to get my clearance in the air, and I would have been better
off getting in on the ground. I agree, ask FSS. A lot of instructors
have never flown actual off their own airport. What he told me would
have worked if it was VFR, but it was IMC at 1000' AGL. You do not
want to be flying around under a low cloud deck trying to pick up a
clearance.

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message news:<Nhx_b.390624$na.666639@attbi_s04>...
> Go into Auburn Flight Service and ask any instructor. Way back when, there
> was a phone number we could use to get directly to the guys at Approach
> Control, but that probably wouldn't work today. At an airport as close to
> SeaTac as Auburn is, there are undoubtedly some tricks that don't show up in
> the AIM.
>
> Or call Dennis Wilson at 206-768-2881...he's a TRACON controller and knows
> lots of tricks.
>
> Bob Gardner
>
>
> "endre" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I know this question has probably been answered thousand times before
> > on this forum. I am based at s50 in washington with no instrument
> > approach or departure procedure. It is class G to 1200 and then class
> > e plus some class b around.
> >
> > How can I depart IFR from this airport? Do i need to depart VFR and
> > stay below 1200 and pick up my clearance or can I get a void time
> > clearance, be responsible for my own obstacle clearance and separation
> > and depart essentially at 0/0 (if i ever thought that was a good
> > idea?) The minimum vectoring altitude is 2000 feet. Just thinking
> > about those days where the ceiling is 800-1200 or a 400 feet fog layer
> > where it would be nice to get out.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"airbourne56" > wrote in message
om...
>
> As far as obstacle clearance.
> There is a standard climb rate that assures obstacle clearance (I
> think it's 200 feet per mile). Check the regs. If a climb rate greater
> than that, or certain headings or courses are required to assure
> clearance, they'll be stipulated in the departure procedures (e.g.
> "upon departure, fly outbound ARB course 240 until reaching 4000 feet
> then proceed on course"). Just follow what they say and you're in the
> clear.
>

The standard departure procedure is cross the end of the runway at least 35
feet AGL, climb to 400 feet above the runway elevation before turning, and
climb at least 200 feet per nautical mile. That will work at a field that
has an instrument approach procedure, or it will have a published departure
procedure to rely on for terrain and obstruction avoidance. The field we're
discussing had no IAP, so the standard departure procedure ensures nothing.

[Ray Andraka]

That is only true if the field has a instrument approach. If no IAP, then there is no departure procedure standard or otherwise. In that
case, you need to CAREFULLY check the charts and notams to make sure you are not going to fly into anything hard.

airbourne56 wrote:

> As far as obstacle clearance.
> There is a standard climb rate that assures obstacle clearance (I
> think it's 200 feet per mile). Check the regs. If a climb rate greater
> than that, or certain headings or courses are required to assure
> clearance, they'll be stipulated in the departure procedures (e.g.
> "upon departure, fly outbound ARB course 240 until reaching 4000 feet
> then proceed on course"). Just follow what they say and you're in the
> clear. --

--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759