Avionics Help/Recommendations Neede

[three-eight-hotel]

You may have seen some of my threads over the past 6-8 months, about an
unpredictable flakey radio problem I was having. It seemed to have
been resolved by replacing a relay in the audio panel.

I have flown the plane for a few months now, with no issues, until
recently. I have encountered the same symptoms I was having in the
past (no sidetone, when transmitting), but have been able to resolve it
by moving the audio panel around (usually, pulling it halfway out,
reseating it and tightening up the screw to secure it to the tray).
I'm not sure if the relay was "ever" the problem, but all I know is
that replacing it and putting the audio panel back in, bought me a few
months of flying, which I was unable to get before, even after having
removed and reseated the audio panel on several occaisions.

My point??? I'm done! I want to jump into the IFR system and not
constantly be worrying about how fresh my batteries are in my handheld,
because it's only a matter of time before I'm lost comms!

I currently have and old Cessna ARC audio panel, and a generic intercom
with a volume knob, squelch knob and pilot isolation switch. I also
have a Narco Mark 12D radio with VOR indicator, an INOP ADF, a
standalone Narco NAV122 with LOC/GS, and an old standard Cessna
transponder (altitude encoding).

I don't have DME, which I would really like to have, and I don't have a
second radio. This has directed my focus towards some day putting in a
GNS 430, and getting both as a bonus, but that's just not in the budget
at the moment! :-(

What is probably most practical for me, is to do a few small things now
and keep myself flying regularly, and make the big purchases down the
road (hopefully). I don't, however, want to keep buying used/older
equipment off of eBay or where-ever and get 3 more months of flying,
only to be in the same boat 3 months later.

My thought is a new audio panel with the intercom built in, and
removing the old audio panel and intercom. I know there is some
rewiring involved but don't know enough about it to appreciate what the
extent of that would be? I would also like to have something installed
that would be compatible with panel that would be a farily ideal
end-state panel, after upgrades over the next few years.

Is it reasonable to do what I am looking to do, in the $1500-$2000
range, or am I dreaming? (Just the audio panel/intercom upgrade, fully
installed)

I've solicited and received feedback on IFR certified GPS's in the
past, but I'm not so sure an IFR certified GPS is a requirement for me?
I've only considered the 430, to get DME and additional COM
capabilities out of it. I would be completely happy with a handheld,
but would need to consider an additional COM and DME with that in mind.

I feel like a deer in the headlights here and have no idea which
direction to go. Any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated.

The one kicker for me is the budget. I'll probably have to go the
upgrade vs. fix route and nibble away at it a little at a time, rather
than drop it off for a major panel upgrade. I just want to make sure
I'm nibbling toward an end goal, and not just hodgepodging a panel
together, entirely out of budgetary constraints.

My short term goal is to get back in the air and get some more IFR
experience. I'm really not interested in getting some actual lost com
experience... ;-)

Thanks in advance for any recommendations!
Todd

[RST Engineering]

CAUTION. BLATANT COMMERCIAL HUCKSTERISM FOLLOWS.

www.rstengineering.com Have a gander at the RST-565.

Jim



>
> Is it reasonable to do what I am looking to do, in the $1500-$2000
> range, or am I dreaming? (Just the audio panel/intercom upgrade, fully
> installed)
>

[FlyWithTwo]

>
> My thought is a new audio panel with the intercom built in, and
> removing the old audio panel and intercom. I know there is some
> rewiring involved but don't know enough about it to appreciate what the
> extent of that would be? I would also like to have something installed
> that would be compatible with panel that would be a farily ideal
> end-state panel, after upgrades over the next few years.
>
> Is it reasonable to do what I am looking to do, in the $1500-$2000
> range, or am I dreaming? (Just the audio panel/intercom upgrade, fully
> installed)
>
> The one kicker for me is the budget. I'll probably have to go the
> upgrade vs. fix route and nibble away at it a little at a time, rather
> than drop it off for a major panel upgrade. I just want to make sure
> I'm nibbling toward an end goal, and not just hodgepodging a panel
> together, entirely out of budgetary constraints.
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any recommendations!
> Todd

Hi Todd,

The cost of install at a shop will likely be about equal to or a bit
more than the cost of an audio panel/intercom. If you are trying to be
cost conscious, look at install costs as well as the cost of the
hardware. One thing to consider is that if you buy equipment used or
from a discount seller, then take it in to a shop to install, the shop
may not be too anxious to do the work.

On the other hand, you may be able to do some of the work yourself, as
long as it is supervised and approved by an IA. The simplest upgrade
to your current panel might be to get a KMA20 or KMA24 from ebay and
use it to replace your ARC unit. You have no guarantee on condition or
serviceability of the unit. An IA would have to fill out a form 337
and submit it to OK City. This will list the airworthiness approval
for the parts as well as installation methods - FAA AC 43-13. The
equipment list and W&B need will be updated to reflect the change. I
have done this in the past and it has worked out. However, I've worked
in the aviation industry for over 25 years, have some applicable
experience, and a good relationship with a local IA. We did everything
by the book and the FAA approved the changes. Once you see the paper
trail and detail work that is needed for such a job, you'll understand
the cost drivers that go into equipment installation.

If you are like most folks, you will need to have a shop do the
installation. It would be good to find out ahead of time whether they
expect to sell and install, or if they are willing to install customer
furnished equipment.

Since you already have an intercom and audio panel, you don't have to
tear out the interior to run wires to mic/phone jacks, provided you
already have them at all stations. The wiring that goes to the new
audio/intercom is already behind the panel, and just needs to be
terminated on the new connector. As I recall, the ARC audio panels are
taller than current solid state units, so a tray replacement would
either involve sliding other radios up, or a spacer of some type.

As far as equipment goes, I can highly recommend the audio panels and
intercoms from PS Engineering. I installed one of their intercoms in a
plane I owned and liked it. I have one of their intercoms in my
current plane, although I have a KMA 24 audio panel that was in the
plane when I bought it. If I were buying a new audio panel, intercom
or combo unit for my plane, PS Engineering would be my choice, based on
my personal experience. There are others that make good equipment.

If you just want a new replacement for your existing audio panel and
intercom, they have some combination units that would work well, such
as the PM6000. If you want to upgrade and pinch pennies, you might do
as well by replacing the ARC audio panel with another audio panel, say
a used KMA 24. Units on ebay run from $300-$600, and some come with a
yellow tag, which would be needed on the form 337 entry to prove
airworthiness. You could replace the old intercom with a new unit from
PS Engineering or Sigtronics, probably around $400 new.

Good luck,
Brian

[RST Engineering]

>
> On the other hand, you may be able to do some of the work yourself, as
> long as it is supervised and approved by an IA.

That is not true. An A&P can logbook enter a minor modification.



An IA would have to fill out a form 337
> and submit it to OK City.

Only if your A&P is not skilled enough to avoid a paperwork blizzard.



We did everything
> by the book and the FAA approved the changes. Once you see the paper
> trail and detail work that is needed for such a job, you'll understand
> the cost drivers that go into equipment installation.

Once you understand that being paid $$ an hour for a paperwork mill is a lot
easier than being paid the same $$ for sweating greasy wrenches, you will
understand why a lot of mechanics choose to do their "work" in an air
conditioned office with a pen. Hey, it's only your money, right?




Units on ebay run from $300-$600, and some come with a
> yellow tag, which would be needed on the form 337 entry to prove
> airworthiness.

The yellow tag means nothing other than that the unit met its internal
specifications at the time it was tested. It has absolutely nothing to do
with being airworthy.

Jim
A&P, IA

[Blanche Cohen]

FlyWithTwo > wrote:
>Hi Todd,
>
>Since you already have an intercom and audio panel, you don't have to
>tear out the interior to run wires to mic/phone jacks, provided you
>already have them at all stations. The wiring that goes to the new
>audio/intercom is already behind the panel, and just needs to be
>terminated on the new connector.

I disagree.
The wiring is no doubt incredibly old and the insulation, probably
close to crumbling. What's the point of doing an upgrade of the electronics
if the same 'transport medium' is used? Pull out the interior, and while
you're at it, you have the opportunity to check the insulation against
the airframe, make sure there's no corrosion, etc. As the owner, the
interior comes under the category of owner-permitted maintenance. And,
with the avionics A&P's supervision, you can also run new wiring
at the same time. Take the time to do it right.

I do agree wholeheartedly about the PSEngineering intercom. I
put one in (rather, the avionics shop did) a few years ago and am
very happy both with the unit and support from the company -- a number
of the PSEng. people frequent this newsgroup, BTW.

[FlyWithTwo]

Hi Jim,

Mea Culpa - not intending to start a flame war, just respond to the
original poster's request.

All of the persons I know with IA are also A&Ps. As you correctly
state, many skilled A&Ps can replace an existing component with one of
a different manufacture and record it as a minor change in the logbook.
In my own experience, some A&Ps are more skilled or motivated than
others in making logbook entries.

I have indeed installed equipment in my plane, under the supervision of
an IA A&P. This work was recorded in the logbook, and a form 337 was
completed and sent to OK City. The 337 is hardly a paperwork blizzard.
It is one page, with standard blocks for information on the front, and
a space on the back to describe the change. In my own case, it was
pretty straightforward. I'm sure others have run into problems of one
sort or another with the 337.

Of course you are correct and precise about the yellow tag meaning that
it has been checked to specifications. Airworthy parts have either PMA
or TSO. The equipment I installed had PMA and a yellow tag (since it
was not new equipment), which I stapled into the logbook.

Brian

[RST Engineering]

"FlyWithTwo" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> All of the persons I know with IA are also A&Ps.

The A&P is a requirement to hold an IA.


As you correctly
> state, many skilled A&Ps can replace an existing component with one of
> a different manufacture and record it as a minor change in the logbook.

To quote directly from an FAA Advisory Circular, "Whether a modification is
major or minor is determined in part by the person responsible for the
modification..."



The 337 is hardly a paperwork blizzard.
> It is one page, with standard blocks for information on the front, and
> a space on the back to describe the change. In my own case, it was
> pretty straightforward. I'm sure others have run into problems of one
> sort or another with the 337.

Having done a few dozen dozen 337s, I'm fairly familiar with what they look
like. Try telling your "straightforward" to somebody like Jay Honeck who
got gigged by a local FAA weenie on a 337 lamp installation.



>
> Of course you are correct and precise about the yellow tag meaning that
> it has been checked to specifications. Airworthy parts have either PMA
> or TSO.

Oy, here we go again. Airworthy parts do not require PMA or TSO. Not. No.
Nada. Nein. I have here in my hand a small piece of aluminum that I have
drilled, bent, and alodined that is going to be part of a required engine
baffling. That piece of aluminum had nothing but the alloy stamped on it
when I started. Are you telling me that it is unairworthy because it wasn't
made to PMA or TSO? Bzzzzt. Are you also telling me that it is going to
require a 337 to bolt it onto the engine? Bzzzzt.


Jim

[three-eight-hotel]

Thanks, so far, for the responses... I'm not ignoring them, just
digesting them... ;-)

I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty, but am thinking about the
implications and the logistics of going down that road. Evening and
weekends are really the only times I would be able to work on it, and I
don't have any friends that are A&P's or IA's. My mechanic and another
mechanic I know would not likely be excited to help me on evenings or
weekends, just so I can save money.

I would actually love to do something like this, and would love to know
as much as possible about my airplane, and its systems, but I also
recognize that my mechanic aquaintences have businesses to run and
bills to pay, and helping me learn more about my airplane on their free
time might not be a high priority for them.

I haven't talked to any local avionics shops yet, as I was looking to
get feedback here first, so I could have my ducks in a row. I don't
know yet what a typical shops policy is on bringing in equipment and
having them install it, as Brian pointed out.

I would really like to have a long term plan, so that as components of
the stack go belly up, I will already have some idea of what the plan
was for that component anyway. Right now I just need an audio
panel/intercom. I really need a second com too, but as Doug pointed
out, I "could" plug a handheld into a music input of an intercom. My
current intercom doesn't support that, but most new ones do seem to. I
think my "long term" plan would include a second panel mounted com,
with a handheld to be used in case of an electrical failure.

ADF... Don't want it, don't need it. Would open up a lot of space in
the stack if it weren't there.

DME... I would like some kind of "legal" distance measuring display
mechanism in the plane, as there are a lot of approaches that require
DME, and many fixes that are not identifiable from a VOR(s). A
handheld GPS will be a fantastic addition for situational awareness,
but doesn't make for a legal option when DME is required

I "am" willing to take the time and do it right, but certain financial
limitations apply. If somone's interpretation of doing it right is
installing a $30,000 Garmin stack, that just would not be possible.
However if replacing the wire, while replacing the component is doing
it right, then I'm in... It would just be a matter of working out the
previous logistical issues and doing it myself or making that one of
the requirements for any avionics shop that might be doing the work for
me.

Thanks for the responses! I'm still feeling a bit like a wide-eyed
deer looking into the light, but this too shall pass.

Best Regards,
Todd

[RST Engineering]

This is how I have done the 182, the 172 before that, and the 170 before
that.

Radios will change. Audio panels will change. Intercoms will change. The
182 started out life with a 90 channel MK-12 and a Lear ADF. By my count,
it has gone through 43 separate and individual avionics changes in its 50
year history. That's about one every year or so.

None of the radios in the 182 are directly connected to the audio panel, and
I have dual King 170Bs, an amateur (ham) 2 meter rig, and an XM satellite
music radio all running through the audio panel.

Here's the deal, and terminal strip is the mantra. Call up www.mouser.com
and search for "Cinch series 140" (without the quotation marks). It will
tell you that to see the device click on "page 1137". If you are on dialup,
this page will take about a minute to load.

Every radio has its own personal 8-pin terminal strip. Power, ground,
speaker, phones, mic audio, mic key, lights, and a spare. But it doesn't
stop there. Go back to the Mouser search page and search for "Molex .062" "
(without the quotation marks but with the "inch mark after .062). This is a
series of small nylon connectors that go for a couple of bucks each. Been
using both terminal strips and nylon connectors for forty years without a
single failure.

Now, the radio comes with a horrendously expensive (and generally made out
of unobtanium) connector. That connector gets wired to an "intermediate"
nylon connector, and the nylon connector gets wired to the terminal strip.
The terminal strip also gets wired to the audio panel. Thus, to change
audio panels, I simply remove the wires from the terminal strips and run the
new wires to the terminal strips. TO change a radio, I simply wire the new
radio connector into one half of the intermediate connector and it is done.

The terminal strips all reside on a sheet of thin aluminum that is bolted to
the bottom of the radio rack. Why the bottom? Because if I'm having
trouble with a radio, all the connections to the radio are right there in
plain sight for troubleshooting.

I do not claim inventor rights to the terminal strip idea. I got it from
working on Baby Boeings. That is how Boeing makes connections. I do claim
inventor rights to the intermediate "Karmic Connector" idea. (Karmic is
what my editor at Kitplanes named it ... it stands for "Kitplanes Aircraft
Radio Middle Intermediate Connector" or some other hogwash like that.

As to your friendly local A&P, nobody ever said that they need to be looking
over your shoulder every step of the way. So long as you go in with a plan
that they can see, and that they can observe, and once you earn their trust,
you go in with the plan and they inspect the final product weeks or months
later.

Some tips: Get yourself a Mouser print catalog by calling them up and
asking for one. We dye the connectors to color code them for male and
female pins -- nylon will dye red, black, green, yellow, blue ... in Rit
fabric dye at room temperature in a couple of days, or in hot water in a
couple of minutes. Use crimp terminals on all the wires at the terminal
blocks. A plain old ten dollar crimp tool can make every bit as good a
connection as the $150 ratchet crimp tool. When you put the male and female
pins on the wires for the nylon connectors, crimp AND solder them. Get a
shareware schematic drawing program for your wiring diagrams -- your
mechanic will be impressed.

Last ... you are wondering what second radio to put in. While you are
wondering, I have a perfectly good Com-11 that is gathering dust on the
shelf. You are welcome to borrow it until you decide, but a decent older
Narking radio on ebay is not a bad deal.

Finally, if you get REAL serious about this stuff and understand that I
won't be available to answer questions right away, and as I understand it
you live in Georgetown about 20 miles south of me, I'll take on the
inspection job IF you report blow-by-blow progress to this newsgroup. I'll
even loan you the schematic drawing program with a couple of samples from
the 182 files. It would be nice if we could figure out how to ferry the
airplane up to Grass Valley for the inspections, then you fly it home with
the signoff (or a list of squawks to clean up).

No matter WHOSE audio panel you use, or WHOSE radio you use, it will be
absolutely mandatory for you to find a pinout of the connector. A good
starting place is Bob Nuckoll's page at www.aeroelectric.com .

Interested?

Jim

(Jav, ya wanna chime in here?)


"three-eight-hotel" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> Thanks, so far, for the responses... I'm not ignoring them, just
> digesting them... ;-)
>
> I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty, but am thinking about the
> implications and the logistics of going down that road. Evening and
> weekends are really the only times I would be able to work on it, and I
> don't have any friends that are A&P's or IA's. My mechanic and another
> mechanic I know would not likely be excited to help me on evenings or
> weekends, just so I can save money.

[Montblack]

("RST Engineering" wrote)
> It would be nice if we could figure out how to ferry the airplane up to
> Grass Valley for the inspections, then you fly it home with the signoff
> (or a list of squawks to clean up).


Nice write-up Jim. I've saved it to my FLYING folder. Some day I need to
sub-divide that FLYING folder - it's getting full.

This is where I'm a horrible, horrible person.
I suggest - from 1,280.5 nm away...

In the none too distant future:
Mark things INOP.
Fly plane 20 miles north, up to Grass Valley (GOO!!!)

.... just a minute, I need to clear my eyes and catch my breath. GOO? Ok. I'm
goo-d to go. Oops, no I'm not. Hehehehehe. Ahhhhh ...[sigh] ..."whew!"
Anyway.

Plane will be waiting for person who will be doing the inspection.
Get inspected. Plane, too.
[Review squawk list, if any]
Get sign-off.
Fly home.
Do not make eye contact and do not speak to anyone at your local field.
Return home. Shower.

Am I bad?


Montblack

[three-eight-hotel]

>> Finally, if you get REAL serious about this stuff and understand that I
>> won't be available to answer questions right away, and as I understand it
>> you live in Georgetown about 20 miles south of me, I'll take on the
>> inspection job IF you report blow-by-blow progress to this newsgroup. I'll
>> even loan you the schematic drawing program with a couple of samples from
>> the 182 files. It would be nice if we could figure out how to ferry the
>> airplane up to Grass Valley for the inspections, then you fly it home with
>> the signoff (or a list of squawks to clean up).
>>
>> No matter WHOSE audio panel you use, or WHOSE radio you use, it will be
>> absolutely mandatory for you to find a pinout of the connector. A good
>> starting place is Bob Nuckoll's page at www.aeroelectric.com .
>>
>> Interested?

Yes!

BTW - I have a Cessna (360 I think) NAV/COM that my instructor gave me,
but was putting it off to stop the bleeding in other areas first, and
for fear of throwing in new money to install old parts. I have two
operational NAV's in the plane already, so I'm feeling pretty good
about that. (Shoot... If I didn't need to talk to anybody, my IFR
situation is pretty darn good, with the exception of lacking a DME)

How would you recommed we kick this project off? I can fly up to the
GOO and we can chat??? We can discuss a plan, and Montblack's ferrying
suggestion... ;-)

Thanks very much for the offer! I would really like to learn more
about my plane, and this would be a great opportunity!

Best Regards,
Todd

[three-eight-hotel]

Funny!

There just so happens to be a campground at the Georgetown airport, and
I believe they have a shower??? I know for a fact that they have
decent restrooms, so I could at least wash up a little! :-)

Cheers!
Todd

[RST Engineering]

OK, this upcoming week is finals week and I'm solid booked except for
Wednesday. If you want to come up on Wednesday and I can show you what I'd
do if I were you, that would work for me. I can squeeze a couple of hours
out this weekend also, if you prefer. I'll let you poke about the aircraft
and I'll also have a CDROM with the schematic drawing computer program on it
for you. It isn't too hard to learn, although it will take you some time.
I'll clean up some of the stuff and start an "avionics" folder; I just know
where everything is and I've been sort of sloppy in getting it properly
documented.

Jim


> Yes!
>
> BTW - I have a Cessna (360 I think) NAV/COM that my instructor gave me,
> but was putting it off to stop the bleeding in other areas first, and
> for fear of throwing in new money to install old parts. I have two
> operational NAV's in the plane already, so I'm feeling pretty good
> about that. (Shoot... If I didn't need to talk to anybody, my IFR
> situation is pretty darn good, with the exception of lacking a DME)
>
> How would you recommed we kick this project off? I can fly up to the
> GOO and we can chat??? We can discuss a plan, and Montblack's ferrying
> suggestion... ;-)
>
> Thanks very much for the offer! I would really like to learn more
> about my plane, and this would be a great opportunity!
>
> Best Regards,
> Todd
>

[RST Engineering]

BTW, what kind of aircraft? And as to the Cessna ARC radio, they weren't
all that reliable, but if you've got the pinout, we can at least find out if
it works before going to all the hassle of mounting it in the aircraft.

Jim

[three-eight-hotel]

The wife is going to be out of town, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, so
I'll be running around, chasing our 3 and 7 year olds on those days...
;-) I have a funeral to attend on Saturday, but could probably get
there at some point on the weekend, but you should just focus on what
you need to do for finals and we can look at next weekend or some time
during the week after that.

The aircraft is a 1976 Cessna 172M. It's in really good condition,
other than the annoying little radio and voltage light issues I've had
lately! :-(

The ARC radio was working in my instructors plane, but she had it
removed to replace it with a TKM Cessna replacement. (That doesn't
mean it works now though). I'll research the link you provided and
look around to see if I can find a pinout of the radio.

Let me know your thoughts, and I'll fly up there when it's convenient
for you.

Thanks,
Todd

[Montblack]

("three-eight-hotel" wrote)
> The wife is going to be out of town, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, so
> I'll be running around, chasing our 3 and 7 year olds on those days... ;-)


It is very important to stay ahead of the children at all times. You must
anticipate, far enough out, their every move or you will crash and burn
Monday, late morning.

Caution: Children that age are often counter rotating, meaning they go in
opposite directions.

Good luck. :-)


Montblack BTDT!!
The wife's going to find you duct taped to the kitchen chair, isn't she?
"Kids, Papa's got to go tinkle! This isn't funny anymore. ...Kids?"

[three-eight-hotel]

LOL!!!

Todd
"Now remember kids... Chocolate cake for breakfast, lunch and dinner
is our little secret! If you give this information to your mother,
when she returns, you're going to be eating liver and lima beans every
night until you're 18!"

[Jack Allison]

three-eight-hotel wrote:

> How would you recommed we kick this project off? I can fly up to the
> GOO and we can chat???

"By Honey, I need to fly up to GOO"...funny

> Thanks very much for the offer! I would really like to learn more
> about my plane, and this would be a great opportunity!

Just remember who gave you the idea Todd. :-)

BTW Jim, little did I realize my a casual comment of "You could always
ask Jim W." when Todd and I flew on Monday would inspire you two on a
little avionics adventure. I'm jealous.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

Montblack wrote:

> This is where I'm a horrible, horrible person.
> I suggest - from 1,280.5 nm away...

Is that direct or via airways? Sorry, too lazy to pull up the flight
planner.

> Am I bad?

You really need to ask? :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Montblack]

("Jack Allison" wrote)
>> I suggest - from 1,280.5 nm away...

> Is that direct or via airways? Sorry, too lazy to pull up the flight
> planner.

AirNav: ANE to GOO 1,278.5 nm
(I couldn't recall the other CA. airport, 20 miles away)


Montblack .....plug, plug, plug
I'll be there all day & night, both Sat & Sun ...(+ Fri + Mon <g>)

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$6 teens ages 13-17
12 & under FREE.

Come in your best period dress! Dance will be held at Golden Wings Museum.

The FLY-IN event will be held at no cost to the public – but asking for a
parking donation

More information and updates can be found at:
www.eaachapter237.org
www.discoveraviationdays.org
www.americanwings.org

[Jack Allison]

Montblack wrote:
>> Is that direct or via airways? Sorry, too lazy to pull up the flight
>> planner.
>
>
> AirNav: ANE to GOO 1,278.5 nm
> (I couldn't recall the other CA. airport, 20 miles away)

AOPA flight planner, great circle route: 1279 nm. Victor airways: 1314
nm. The software didn't recognize KGOO so had to go with O17


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[three-eight-hotel]

>> Just remember who gave you the idea Todd. :-)

No doubt, it was you who mentioned that I should ask Jim for help...
You'll notice that I never had to ask though, because Jim obviously
felt sorry for me, or decided to offer to put an end to my whining!
;-) Either way, I'm appreciative!

>> BTW Jim, little did I realize my a casual comment of "You could always
>> ask Jim W." when Todd and I flew on Monday would inspire you two on a
>> little avionics adventure. I'm jealous.

I'd be happy to pick up an extra avionics screwdriver for you, if you
really feel like you're missing out??? ;-)

Looking forward to what is sure to be a learning experience!!!

Best Regards,
Todd

[Jack Allison]

three-eight-hotel wrote:

> I'd be happy to pick up an extra avionics screwdriver for you, if you
> really feel like you're missing out??? ;-)

Just be sure to post when you'll be doing the work. A certain Arrow
driver may just have to log some landings at KGOO to come check in on
all the fun.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[three-eight-hotel]

Hey Jim... The wife is back, I've been cut free from being duct taped
to the chair by the children, and I'm ready to start thinking about
this again...

I have looked up the Cinch 140 series and the Molex .062", and have a
vague understanding of what you are recommending, but talking it
through a little more would be helpful.

I have been unsuccessful finding a pinout for the Cessna 300 Nav/Com
radio I have, so I still have some legwork there...

Are you still interested in mentoring an electonically challenged
pilot? ;-) I typically pick my daughter up from school around 3:00,
and could have her home and be at the GOO by 5:00ish (earlier if
necessary), any weeknight. Or could be up there on a weekend at a time
of convenience for you.

I'd be happy to fly up there in the near future, so we could take an
intial looksie, and toss some ideas around...

Thanks and best regards!
Todd

[Montblack]

("three-eight-hotel" wrote)
> Are you still interested in mentoring an electonically challenged pilot?
> ;-)


[Hi Todd. Glad you could make it.]
Hi Jim. Thanks.

[Let's start with the basics, shall we?]
Ok Jim. Anything you say.

[First things first. #1) There's an "r" in electronically.]
Doh! <g>


Montblackout

[three-eight-hotel]

>> [First things first. #1) There's an "r" in electronically.]
>> Doh! <g>

Maybe I should have left out "electronically" all together and just
said "a challenged pilot"!

Microsoft would do well to include a spell checker in their browser,
and Todd would do well to proof-read his post before submitting! ;-)

Best Regards,
Todd

[Montblack]

("three-eight-hotel" wrote)
> Microsoft would do well to include a spell checker in their browser, and
> Todd would do well to proof-read his post before submitting! ;-)


It's my understanding that Outlook Express uses the spell checker in (for
me) Office97.

My OE 6.0 spell checker has been down for a while [????]. I've tried
everything short of reformatting the Hard Drive. My solution is to
copy/paste over to Mozilla Thunderbird, use that spell checker, then make
the changes in my OE post ...and send ...then Sync All.

Sounds convoluted but it's actually fast, easy - and a solution I can live
with ...like inserting a pencil into the minivan's tape player - after
hitting "eject" first, holding the pencil against the moving tape tray until
the tray stops, then removing the pencil, all to get my car radio started.

Works every time! :-)


Montblack

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("three-eight-hotel" wrote)
>> Microsoft would do well to include a spell checker in their browser, and
>> Todd would do well to proof-read his post before submitting! ;-)
>
>
> It's my understanding that Outlook Express uses the spell checker in (for
> me) Office97.

Well it uses the spell check from whatever version of Office you have.

>
> My OE 6.0 spell checker has been down for a while [????]. I've tried
> everything short of reformatting the Hard Drive. My solution is to
> copy/paste over to Mozilla Thunderbird, use that spell checker, then make
> the changes in my OE post ...and send ...then Sync All.
>

Why not just use Thunderbird as a newsreader?

[Montblack]

("Gig 601XL Builder" wrote)
> Why not just use Thunderbird as a newsreader?


I've tried it twice. I keep coming back to OE.

We use Mozilla Thunderbird for most of our e-mails.

IMPORTANT: I just discovered that I'm suppose to <right click> and "Compact
This Folder" manually in Thunderbird. Or else...

[Tools/Options/Advanced/Offline Settings]
The setting for: "Disk Space: Compact folder when it will save over ??? KB"
was set too high, or was off. I've never compacted my T-Bird messages
before - oops. Never thought about it. OE does it automatically. [I've since
set mine to 100KB.]

Anyway, T-Bird locked up and I had to go to the web to read up how to get it
to quit "building summary file for..." - which it would do but never finish.

Web said to do a few things as one possible solution: Inbox became InboxOld
so I got to start fresh with a new default Inbox. I copied the contents of
InboxOld (some stuff I really want is still locked up in there) over to a
new folder location on my Desktop. When I try accessing it, it still does
the "building summary file for..." thing - but at least this way I've got a
fresh start with T-Bird.

The old Inbox Folder on my Desktop is 250MB. I've since learned Thunderbird
is happier with smaller, sub-divided folders.

I'll Google and play with it more another time.


Montblack

[Jack Allison]

Montblack wrote:
> Sounds convoluted but it's actually fast, easy - and a solution I can
> live with ...like inserting a pencil into the minivan's tape player -
> after hitting "eject" first, holding the pencil against the moving tape
> tray until the tray stops, then removing the pencil, all to get my car
> radio started.
>

Yes, convoluted is the term that came to mind.

One word - Thunderbird. I switched from OE a year or so ago and haven't
looked back.



--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

three-eight-hotel wrote:
>
> Maybe I should have left out "electronically" all together and just
> said "a challenged pilot"!

Nah...just admit that you're a software guy. Who says we're supposed to
know how to spell? Though, using a spell checker does help.

Same word for you as for MontBlack: Thunderbird. It has a spell checker
too.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Blanche Cohen]

three-eight-hotel > wrote:
>>> [First things first. #1) There's an "r" in electronically.]
>>> Doh! <g>
>
>Maybe I should have left out "electronically" all together and just
>said "a challenged pilot"!
>
>Microsoft would do well to include a spell checker in their browser,
>and Todd would do well to proof-read his post before submitting! ;-)

I would never be surprized at MS putting in a spell checker. However,
do you check your spells? Or are you checking your spelling?

(*evil laugh*)

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Blanche Cohen" > wrote in message
...
> three-eight-hotel > wrote:
>>>> [First things first. #1) There's an "r" in electronically.]
>>>> Doh! <g>
>>
>>Maybe I should have left out "electronically" all together and just
>>said "a challenged pilot"!
>>
>>Microsoft would do well to include a spell checker in their browser,
>>and Todd would do well to proof-read his post before submitting! ;-)
>
> I would never be surprized at MS putting in a spell checker. However,
> do you check your spells? Or are you checking your spelling?
>
> (*evil laugh*)
>
>

If you are using IE or Firefox to post the Google tool bar now has a spell
checker.