Flying over water and filing IFR

[Brien K. Meehan]

Okay, I'm here, and my destination is on the other side of one of the
Great Lakes. Flying direct will take me out of gliding distance from
shore, so I don't want to do that.

.... but there's no obvious airway route around the lake. In fact,
there's a big honkin' Class B area, so even if I try to file a route,
it'll probably be reassigned anyways. So, I just want to be open to
receiving an assigned route, just not one that takes me over the lake.

So, what's the best way to ask for a route assignment that doesn't go
over the lake?

1) Put it in the filed plan? In the route? Or "NO LAKE OVERFLIGHT"
in the comments? Or something else?

2) Tell the controller when I pick up my clearance?

3) Wait for an assigned route, and if it goes over the lake, tell the
controller "unable"?

4) Move to a different state?

[John R. Copeland]

"Brien K. Meehan" > wrote in message =
om...
> Okay, I'm here, and my destination is on the other side of one of the
> Great Lakes. Flying direct will take me out of gliding distance from
> shore, so I don't want to do that.
>=20
> ... but there's no obvious airway route around the lake. In fact,
> there's a big honkin' Class B area, so even if I try to file a route,
> it'll probably be reassigned anyways. So, I just want to be open to
> receiving an assigned route, just not one that takes me over the lake.
>=20
> So, what's the best way to ask for a route assignment that doesn't go
> over the lake?
>=20
> 1) Put it in the filed plan? In the route? Or "NO LAKE OVERFLIGHT"
> in the comments? Or something else?
>=20
> 2) Tell the controller when I pick up my clearance?
>=20
> 3) Wait for an assigned route, and if it goes over the lake, tell the
> controller "unable"?
>=20
> 4) Move to a different state?

We're playing a guessing game here, not knowing WHICH lake,
nor even whether you're making an international or domestic flight.
Since you mentioned "a state", I assume one end of your flight is in the =
U.S.

I think I'd file a flight plan for a route of my choice, for starters.
Airways, VOR-to-VOR, or point-to-point-to-point,
whatever is appropriate, depending upon your equipment.
If your proposed route clearly avoids water, ATC should understand.

Ask your nearest FSS for routing suggestions around your Class B area.
I think Chicago lets you cross overhead if you're above 14000 feet.
It's been ten years since I've had to do that, though.
---JRC---

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On 2 Apr 2004 11:27:29 -0800, (Brien K. Meehan)
wrote:

>Okay, I'm here, and my destination is on the other side of one of the
>Great Lakes. Flying direct will take me out of gliding distance from
>shore, so I don't want to do that.
>
>... but there's no obvious airway route around the lake. In fact,
>there's a big honkin' Class B area, so even if I try to file a route,
>it'll probably be reassigned anyways. So, I just want to be open to
>receiving an assigned route, just not one that takes me over the lake.
>
>So, what's the best way to ask for a route assignment that doesn't go
>over the lake?
>
>1) Put it in the filed plan? In the route? Or "NO LAKE OVERFLIGHT"
>in the comments? Or something else?
>
>2) Tell the controller when I pick up my clearance?
>
>3) Wait for an assigned route, and if it goes over the lake, tell the
>controller "unable"?
>
>4) Move to a different state?


3 or 4.

Seriously, I've refused overwater routing in my Mooney for the same reasons
you cite.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[PaulaJay1]

In article >,
(Brien K. Meehan) writes:

>So, what's the best way to ask for a route assignment that doesn't go
>over the lake?

If you stay IFR, there may not be a way. In crossing Lake Erie from Canada to
Sandusky, Ohio I have canceled IFR when CLE APP demanded decent to 3000.
When returning from the Bahamas, West Palm required decent while over the
Alantic to put me ourside gliding distance. Occasionally there isn't any
choice. Other times suggest alternates.

Chuck

[jsmith]

"Brien K. Meehan" wrote:
> Okay, I'm here, and my destination is on the other side of one of the
> Great Lakes. Flying direct will take me out of gliding distance from
> shore, so I don't want to do that.
> ... but there's no obvious airway route around the lake. In fact,
> there's a big honkin' Class B area, so even if I try to file a route,
> it'll probably be reassigned anyways. So, I just want to be open to
> receiving an assigned route, just not one that takes me over the lake.
> So, what's the best way to ask for a route assignment that doesn't go
> over the lake?

Routing is your choice. They may give you something different, at which
time you begin negotiations.

> 1) Put it in the filed plan? In the route? Or "NO LAKE OVERFLIGHT"
> in the comments? Or something else?

That is what I have done. "REMARKS: NO OVERWATER FLIGHT ACCEPTED"

> 2) Tell the controller when I pick up my clearance?

If they give you an overwater leg, remind them of the REMARKS.

> 3) Wait for an assigned route, and if it goes over the lake, tell the
> controller "unable"?

That's what I have done. Tell them you cannot accept that clearance.
Again, refer to the REMARKS. Tell them to standby while you review the
amended clearance. Never accept a clearance until you have looked at it
on your charts and determined you are able and willing to fly the
amended clearance.

> 4) Move to a different state?

Depends on how much the new job pays.

[EDR]

In article >, jsmith > wrote:

> > 1) Put it in the filed plan? In the route? Or "NO LAKE OVERFLIGHT"
> > in the comments? Or something else?
>
> That is what I have done. "REMARKS: NO OVERWATER FLIGHT ACCEPTED"

The complete remark should read: "NO OVERWATER FLIGHT ACCEPTED. NO
FLOATATION GEAR ONBOARD."

[Richard Kaplan]

"PaulaJay1" > wrote in message
...

> If you stay IFR, there may not be a way. In crossing Lake Erie from
Canada to
> Sandusky, Ohio I have canceled IFR when CLE APP demanded decent to 3000.
> When returning from the Bahamas, West Palm required decent while over the
> Alantic to put me ourside gliding distance. Occasionally there isn't any
> choice. Other times suggest alternates.

You are PIC. Decline the clearances.

I have done this several times both with Chicago Center approaching Lake
Michigan and with New York Center crossing Long Island Sound.

Simply state "Unable Overwater Out of Gliding Range" and leave it at that.

You may be vectored on a longer route, but if you give a reason for "Unable"
they must and will find an alternate answer for you.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

[Teacherjh]

Try this: Figure out a route you will like, and file to an AIRPORT on the
route (not your destination) for which the sensible routing does not take you
over water. File your alternate (or an additional IFR flight plan) from that
airport to your destination.

Jose

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