Route planning question

[Paul Tomblin]

I'm planning to fly up to Oshawa Ontario next week (from Rochester, NY).
This will be my first flight there since I got my instrument rating. The
en-route chart shows an airway A21 going from the St. Catherines NDB to
Oshawa NDB. I have to confess that nothing I've read has ever said
anything about route planning with these sorts of airways (Alpha?). I was
thinking that I could do ROC v31 AIRCO v252 a21 OO, but there is no
defined intersection point between v252 and a21, so I'm not sure how the
ATC computers would handle that. I'm sure they don't want me to go all
the way into to YYZ and back out.

I figure in the real world I'll probably get direct OO long before I get
to that point, but I'd rather file something that won't get me a full
route clearance.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Home pages are the pet rock of the 90s. They all have them, they all think
they're very cute. But in a few years they're going to look back and be
pretty embarrassed. -- Kim Alm

[John R. Copeland]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message =
...
> I'm planning to fly up to Oshawa Ontario next week (from Rochester, =
NY).
> This will be my first flight there since I got my instrument rating. =
The
> en-route chart shows an airway A21 going from the St. Catherines NDB =
to
> Oshawa NDB. I have to confess that nothing I've read has ever said
> anything about route planning with these sorts of airways (Alpha?). I =
was
> thinking that I could do ROC v31 AIRCO v252 a21 OO, but there is no
> defined intersection point between v252 and a21, so I'm not sure how =
the
> ATC computers would handle that. I'm sure they don't want me to go =
all
> the way into to YYZ and back out.
>=20
> I figure in the real world I'll probably get direct OO long before I =
get
> to that point, but I'd rather file something that won't get me a full
> route clearance.
>=20
> --=20
> Paul Tomblin=20
>=20
It'll be interesting to see what you get, Paul. Be sure to tell us.
I'd say be prepared to go direct OO from about the BILGE intersection.
In fact, I myself might even file it that way, in anticipation.

If you really want to file to that unnamed intersection of V252 and A21,
notice that it's at N43 29.2 W079 06.1,
or that it's also described by YYZ124025.

Same as you, I doubt they'll want you penetrating the YYZ Class-C area,
but I suspect they'll get you inside the Class-B area before going =
direct OO.
However, my record at out-guessing ATC isn't very good. :-(
I've received some very circuitous vectors going into YYZ in the past,
but it's been quite a few years since I've been there, so ICBW.
---JRC---

[Brien K. Meehan]

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message >...
> I'm planning to fly up to Oshawa Ontario next week (from Rochester, NY).
> This will be my first flight there since I got my instrument rating. The
> en-route chart shows an airway A21 going from the St. Catherines NDB to
> Oshawa NDB. I have to confess that nothing I've read has ever said
> anything about route planning with these sorts of airways (Alpha?).

It's one of those nutty old Amber airways. They pre-date the
VOR-based airways. They're NDB to NDB. I don't think there are any
left in the US, except maybe in Alaska, but third world countries
(like Canada) still use them.

> I was
> thinking that I could do ROC v31 AIRCO v252 a21 OO, but there is no
> defined intersection point between v252 and a21, so I'm not sure how the
> ATC computers would handle that.

My chart says there's an intersection there called RCRCP. But, the
AOPA Real Time Flight Planner recommends leaving V252 at BULGE, direct
CYOO.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, (Brien K. Meehan) said:
>> I was
>> thinking that I could do ROC v31 AIRCO v252 a21 OO, but there is no
>> defined intersection point between v252 and a21, so I'm not sure how the
>> ATC computers would handle that.
>
>My chart says there's an intersection there called RCRCP. But, the

Funny, the Toronto Terminal Area Chart doesn't show it. It even makes it
clear that the "mileage breakdown point" at 25nm from YYZ is *not* where
A21 crosses, but rather where V161-252 crosses the border (and the MEA and
MRA change, for some reason).

The Terminal Area Chart also shows a point on A21 "KENDI" and gives a
lat-long (and distances to the two NDBs), but I wonder how the hell you'd
be able to tell when you were there without GPS?

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"God be between you and harm, in all the empty places that you must walk"