Instrument Checkride on May 17th [Archive]

David B. Cole

May 5th 04, 04:30 PM

On Saturday my instructor and I flew to Stewart International in
Newburg, NY for a few approaches. The plan was to fly out and do the
VOR -27 partial panel a couple of times, followed by an ILS. After
that we planned to fly to 4N1, Greenwood Lake, before returning to
CDW. Partial panel holding had been my one sticking point. We flew the
entire trip from CDW to the Kingston VOR, about 40 miles, partial
panel. After reaching Kingston I entered the procedure turn and flew
the approach. After reaching the MAP and flying the missed, my
instructor informed the controller that we would be flying to 4N1
instead of shooting any additional approaches.

His comment to me was that I couldn't have done a better job and
although I was exhausted, I was pleased. We flew to Greenwood Lake for
a VOR approach there before heading back to CDW for a LOC approach to
Rwy 22. Once we were back on the ground my instructor informed me that
he wanted me to call the examiner and schedule the checkride, which I
scheduled for May 17. Now I have to prepare for the oral, which I'm
not really worried about since I think I have a good grasp on this
stuff. Hopefully the 100 on the written will help. Now I just have to
make sure I don't make too many mistakes on the practical so that I
don't have to do it twice. Thanks everyone for all the support.

Cecil: I'll be thinking about you as I prepare.

Dave

Andrew Gideon

May 5th 04, 11:55 PM

David B. Cole wrote:

> Once we were back on the ground my instructor informed me that
> he wanted me to call the examiner and schedule the checkride, which I
> scheduled for May 17.

Very nice!

Who'll be your examiner?

Soon, we'll have figure out how to trade-off safety pilot. To do that, we
need to be checked out in the same aircraft <hint!>.

- Andrew

Cecil Chapman

May 6th 04, 01:02 AM

> Cecil: I'll be thinking about you as I prepare.
>
> Dave

Be looking forward to your post-checkride success story! Thanks for the
thoughts, man!!! :)

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"David B. Cole" > wrote in message
m...
> On Saturday my instructor and I flew to Stewart International in
> Newburg, NY for a few approaches. The plan was to fly out and do the
> VOR -27 partial panel a couple of times, followed by an ILS. After
> that we planned to fly to 4N1, Greenwood Lake, before returning to
> CDW. Partial panel holding had been my one sticking point. We flew the
> entire trip from CDW to the Kingston VOR, about 40 miles, partial
> panel. After reaching Kingston I entered the procedure turn and flew
> the approach. After reaching the MAP and flying the missed, my
> instructor informed the controller that we would be flying to 4N1
> instead of shooting any additional approaches.
>
> His comment to me was that I couldn't have done a better job and
> although I was exhausted, I was pleased. We flew to Greenwood Lake for
> a VOR approach there before heading back to CDW for a LOC approach to
> Rwy 22. Once we were back on the ground my instructor informed me that
> he wanted me to call the examiner and schedule the checkride, which I
> scheduled for May 17. Now I have to prepare for the oral, which I'm
> not really worried about since I think I have a good grasp on this
> stuff. Hopefully the 100 on the written will help. Now I just have to
> make sure I don't make too many mistakes on the practical so that I
> don't have to do it twice. Thanks everyone for all the support.
>
> Cecil: I'll be thinking about you as I prepare.
>
> Dave

BTIZ

May 6th 04, 02:13 AM

a 100 on the written???

well.. the examiner knows no body is perfect.. so he's going try to find out
what you don't know.. don't worry.. they always find something.. and it
should be no big deal... just don't dig a hole and try to bluff your way out
of something..

study up, take your reference library with you.. and you'll do fine..

BT

"David B. Cole" > wrote in message
m...
> On Saturday my instructor and I flew to Stewart International in
> Newburg, NY for a few approaches. The plan was to fly out and do the
> VOR -27 partial panel a couple of times, followed by an ILS. After
> that we planned to fly to 4N1, Greenwood Lake, before returning to
> CDW. Partial panel holding had been my one sticking point. We flew the
> entire trip from CDW to the Kingston VOR, about 40 miles, partial
> panel. After reaching Kingston I entered the procedure turn and flew
> the approach. After reaching the MAP and flying the missed, my
> instructor informed the controller that we would be flying to 4N1
> instead of shooting any additional approaches.
>
> His comment to me was that I couldn't have done a better job and
> although I was exhausted, I was pleased. We flew to Greenwood Lake for
> a VOR approach there before heading back to CDW for a LOC approach to
> Rwy 22. Once we were back on the ground my instructor informed me that
> he wanted me to call the examiner and schedule the checkride, which I
> scheduled for May 17. Now I have to prepare for the oral, which I'm
> not really worried about since I think I have a good grasp on this
> stuff. Hopefully the 100 on the written will help. Now I just have to
> make sure I don't make too many mistakes on the practical so that I
> don't have to do it twice. Thanks everyone for all the support.
>
> Cecil: I'll be thinking about you as I prepare.
>
> Dave

David B. Cole

May 6th 04, 02:29 AM

Andrew,

I'm taking the checkride with Marcus. Yeah, I guess this means that I
will have to join the PFC. :-)

Dave

Andrew Gideon > wrote in message e.com>...
> David B. Cole wrote:
>
> > Once we were back on the ground my instructor informed me that
> > he wanted me to call the examiner and schedule the checkride, which I
> > scheduled for May 17.
>
> Very nice!
>
> Who'll be your examiner?
>
> Soon, we'll have figure out how to trade-off safety pilot. To do that, we
> need to be checked out in the same aircraft <hint!>.
>
> - Andrew

Wizard of Draws

May 6th 04, 03:06 AM

On 5/5/04 9:13 PM, in article gjgmc.12049$k24.2313@fed1read01, "BTIZ"
> wrote:

> a 100 on the written???
>
> well.. the examiner knows no body is perfect.. so he's going try to find out
> what you don't know.. don't worry.. they always find something.. and it
> should be no big deal... just don't dig a hole and try to bluff your way out
> of something..
>
> study up, take your reference library with you.. and you'll do fine..
>
> BT
>

I don't understand taking a reference library with you to a checkride. I'll
be scheduling my IFR ride this month if I wasn't so busy. But when it does
happen (in June), I'll only be taking the essentials and what's been planted
in my brain up to that time. No FAR/AIM or anything of that sort. It wasn't
needed during my private oral and I don't see the sense in the DE digging to
the point that you have to feel like you need to drag along an encyclopedia.

If you scored 100, there should be no question that you studied and are able
to pass the oral easily. A few questions on each topic should be sufficient
without the DE trying to find something, for God's sake, anything! just to
show you that you don't know it all.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com

BTIZ

May 6th 04, 03:11 AM

well... lets see... you must take your oral's differently than we do,
FAR/AIM, POH, Aircraft Logs, Weather charts, and weather reference material.

More than one DE has always asked the stumper question... just to see if you
know how to look something up.

BT

"Wizard of Draws" > wrote in message
news:BCBF15CA.E112%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws .com...
> On 5/5/04 9:13 PM, in article gjgmc.12049$k24.2313@fed1read01, "BTIZ"
> > wrote:
>
> > a 100 on the written???
> >
> > well.. the examiner knows no body is perfect.. so he's going try to find
out
> > what you don't know.. don't worry.. they always find something.. and it
> > should be no big deal... just don't dig a hole and try to bluff your way
out
> > of something..
> >
> > study up, take your reference library with you.. and you'll do fine..
> >
> > BT
> >
>
> I don't understand taking a reference library with you to a checkride.
I'll
> be scheduling my IFR ride this month if I wasn't so busy. But when it does
> happen (in June), I'll only be taking the essentials and what's been
planted
> in my brain up to that time. No FAR/AIM or anything of that sort. It
wasn't
> needed during my private oral and I don't see the sense in the DE digging
to
> the point that you have to feel like you need to drag along an
encyclopedia.
>
> If you scored 100, there should be no question that you studied and are
able
> to pass the oral easily. A few questions on each topic should be
sufficient
> without the DE trying to find something, for God's sake, anything! just to
> show you that you don't know it all.
> --
> Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
> Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
> www.wizardofdraws.com
> www.cartoonclipart.com
>

Barry

May 6th 04, 12:31 PM

> I'll only be taking the essentials and what's been planted
> in my brain up to that time. No FAR/AIM or anything of that sort. It wasn't
> needed during my private oral and I don't see the sense in the DE digging to
> the point that you have to feel like you need to drag along an encyclopedia.

Make sure that you review the Practical Test Standards, in particular the
Applicant's Practical Test Checklist. In the Instrument Rating PTS
(http://av-info.faa.gov/data/practicalteststandard/faa-s-8081-4d.pdf) this
includes:

ACCEPTABLE AIRCRAFT
View-limiting device
Aircraft Documents: Airworthiness Certificate
Registration Certificate
Rating Limitations
Aircraft Maintenance Records: Airworthiness Inspections

PERSONAL EQUIPMENT
Current Aeronautical Charts
Computer and Plotter
Flight Plan Form
Flight Logs
**** Current AIM ****

PERSONAL RECORDS
Identification - Photo/Signature ID
Pilot Certificate
Medical Certificate
Completed FAA Form 8710-1, Application for an Airman Certificate and/or Rating
Airman Knowledge Test Report
Logbook with Instructor's Endorsement
Notice of Disapproval (if applicable)
Approved School Graduation Certificate (if applicable)
Examiner's Fee (if applicable)

Wizard of Draws

May 7th 04, 12:37 AM

On 5/5/04 10:11 PM, in article z9hmc.12056$k24.7196@fed1read01, "BTIZ"
> wrote:

> well... lets see... you must take your oral's differently than we do,
> FAR/AIM, POH, Aircraft Logs, Weather charts, and weather reference material.
>
> More than one DE has always asked the stumper question... just to see if you
> know how to look something up.
>
> BT
>

Probably a good deal of it is that my flight school has a very good idea of
what the DE wants to see and what info he's likely to ask. 90% of my private
oral seemed to come from the ASA prep book and the rest were questions that
my instructor and I had prepped for.

I fail to see the reasoning behind demonstrating my FAR/AIM research skills,
as it pertains to my ability to fly safely. I see that it is recommended to
bring the book to the ride, but since I've had no need to crack open the
thing in my last 4 years of flying, I don't see the point. I think a DE
should test the real world, not abstract FAA mumbo jumbo.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com

Judah

May 7th 04, 02:37 AM

Assuming that you don't actually have every reg and recommended
procuedure memorized, you may find yourself one day encountering some
sort of question about how to do something that you have long since
forgotten, or never knew in the first place.

The DE may want to make sure that if you encountered some strange
notation on an approach chart, for example, you would be able to navigate
your way through the FAR/AIM instead of posting a public opinion poll on
a newsgroup.

Bring the freakin' book - even if it is your 2000 edition from your
private. As big as it is, it doesn't cost more than a few extra shoulder
muscles to have it with you.

Wizard of Draws > wrote in
news:BCC0447A.E18F%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws .com:

> On 5/5/04 10:11 PM, in article z9hmc.12056$k24.7196@fed1read01, "BTIZ"
> > wrote:
>
>> well... lets see... you must take your oral's differently than we do,
>> FAR/AIM, POH, Aircraft Logs, Weather charts, and weather reference
>> material.
>>
>> More than one DE has always asked the stumper question... just to see
>> if you know how to look something up.
>>
>> BT
>>
>
> Probably a good deal of it is that my flight school has a very good
> idea of what the DE wants to see and what info he's likely to ask. 90%
> of my private oral seemed to come from the ASA prep book and the rest
> were questions that my instructor and I had prepped for.
>
> I fail to see the reasoning behind demonstrating my FAR/AIM research
> skills, as it pertains to my ability to fly safely. I see that it is
> recommended to bring the book to the ride, but since I've had no need
> to crack open the thing in my last 4 years of flying, I don't see the
> point. I think a DE should test the real world, not abstract FAA mumbo
> jumbo.

Roy Smith

May 7th 04, 02:53 AM

Judah > wrote:
> Bring the freakin' book

Good advice.

> even if it is your 2000 edition from your private.

Bad advice. It's bad form to show up for a checkride with anything
which is outdated. Using last year's AIM is unlikely to ever cause you
any real harm, but why risk disaster if currency of publications is
something your examiner happens to have a bug up his butt about?

It doesn't really matter if he's right or wrong, getting into an
argument with the examiner on a checkride is rarely useful.

Richard Hertz

May 7th 04, 04:38 AM

"Wizard of Draws" > wrote in message
news:BCBF15CA.E112%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws .com...
> On 5/5/04 9:13 PM, in article gjgmc.12049$k24.2313@fed1read01, "BTIZ"
> > wrote:
>
> > a 100 on the written???
> >
> > well.. the examiner knows no body is perfect.. so he's going try to find
out
> > what you don't know.. don't worry.. they always find something.. and it
> > should be no big deal... just don't dig a hole and try to bluff your way
out
> > of something..
> >
> > study up, take your reference library with you.. and you'll do fine..
> >
> > BT
> >
>
> I don't understand taking a reference library with you to a checkride.
I'll
> be scheduling my IFR ride this month if I wasn't so busy. But when it does
> happen (in June), I'll only be taking the essentials and what's been
planted
> in my brain up to that time. No FAR/AIM or anything of that sort. It
wasn't
> needed during my private oral and I don't see the sense in the DE digging
to
> the point that you have to feel like you need to drag along an
encyclopedia.

You didn't take the AIM or FARs with you? Yikes - The DEs I know would not
have let that go. So when you don't know something you just shrug your
shoulders and have no way of saying "I can look it up?"

>
> If you scored 100, there should be no question that you studied and are
able
> to pass the oral easily. A few questions on each topic should be
sufficient
> without the DE trying to find something, for God's sake, anything! just to
> show you that you don't know it all.

That is horse doodie. Getting a 100 on the knowledge tests is not that hard
and you can do it and still know very little about instrument flying.

> --
> Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
> Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
> www.wizardofdraws.com
> www.cartoonclipart.com
>

Richard Hertz

May 7th 04, 04:41 AM

"Wizard of Draws" > wrote in message
news:BCC0447A.E18F%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws .com...
> On 5/5/04 10:11 PM, in article z9hmc.12056$k24.7196@fed1read01, "BTIZ"
> > wrote:
>
> > well... lets see... you must take your oral's differently than we do,
> > FAR/AIM, POH, Aircraft Logs, Weather charts, and weather reference
material.
> >
> > More than one DE has always asked the stumper question... just to see if
you
> > know how to look something up.
> >
> > BT
> >
>
> Probably a good deal of it is that my flight school has a very good idea
of
> what the DE wants to see and what info he's likely to ask. 90% of my
private
> oral seemed to come from the ASA prep book and the rest were questions
that
> my instructor and I had prepped for.

So your flight school just schedules with someone they know will pass just
about anyone they send his/her way. That is nice to know. I'll make sure
to stay away from your airspace.

>
> I fail to see the reasoning behind demonstrating my FAR/AIM research
skills,
> as it pertains to my ability to fly safely. I see that it is recommended
to
> bring the book to the ride, but since I've had no need to crack open the
> thing in my last 4 years of flying, I don't see the point. I think a DE
> should test the real world, not abstract FAA mumbo jumbo.

Um, that is a scary attitude. So how do you learn? You just let other
people tell you the regulations? You never look them up yourself? This is
quite enlightening.

> --
> Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
> Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
> www.wizardofdraws.com
> www.cartoonclipart.com
>

BTIZ

May 7th 04, 06:47 AM

it's the abstract that sometimes will get you into trouble... when you are
cited for a violation.. even though your practical flying was perfect..

BT

"Wizard of Draws" > wrote in message
news:BCC0447A.E18F%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws .com...
> On 5/5/04 10:11 PM, in article z9hmc.12056$k24.7196@fed1read01, "BTIZ"
> > wrote:
>
> > well... lets see... you must take your oral's differently than we do,
> > FAR/AIM, POH, Aircraft Logs, Weather charts, and weather reference
material.
> >
> > More than one DE has always asked the stumper question... just to see if
you
> > know how to look something up.
> >
> > BT
> >
>
> Probably a good deal of it is that my flight school has a very good idea
of
> what the DE wants to see and what info he's likely to ask. 90% of my
private
> oral seemed to come from the ASA prep book and the rest were questions
that
> my instructor and I had prepped for.
>
> I fail to see the reasoning behind demonstrating my FAR/AIM research
skills,
> as it pertains to my ability to fly safely. I see that it is recommended
to
> bring the book to the ride, but since I've had no need to crack open the
> thing in my last 4 years of flying, I don't see the point. I think a DE
> should test the real world, not abstract FAA mumbo jumbo.
> --
> Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
> Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
> www.wizardofdraws.com
> www.cartoonclipart.com
>

David B. Cole

May 7th 04, 07:21 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys, but after a crappy day of flying today I
think I'm going to postpone. We went up yesterday to do steep turns
and partial panel unusual attitudes, which weren't bad. Today the
plan was to fly to Sussex (FWN) and Lincoln Park (N07) for GPS
approaches. But for some reason on the final approach course into
Sussex, I couldn't hold the CDI on the GPS because I never found a
good reference heading and I just watched it go side to side,
something which is unusual for me. I also botched all of my calls
over the CTAF. My instructor asked what the problem was and whether I
was scanning the CDI, at which point I said let's go back. I took off
the foogles and flew back visually, landed, and packed it in. On the
ground he asked what was wrong and I told him I was going to cancel
the checkride. He couldn't understand what went wrong as my flying
has been very consistent and good lately. Maybe it was the idea of
taking the checkride and possibly failing that has me distracted.
Maybe it's the idea of getting out there with the rating and flying by
myself. Oh well, I would probably stop altogether if I didn't care
about spending all the money with nothing to show.

Dave

(David B. Cole) wrote in message >...
> On Saturday my instructor and I flew to Stewart International in
> Newburg, NY for a few approaches. The plan was to fly out and do the
> VOR -27 partial panel a couple of times, followed by an ILS. After
> that we planned to fly to 4N1, Greenwood Lake, before returning to
> CDW. Partial panel holding had been my one sticking point. We flew the
> entire trip from CDW to the Kingston VOR, about 40 miles, partial
> panel. After reaching Kingston I entered the procedure turn and flew
> the approach. After reaching the MAP and flying the missed, my
> instructor informed the controller that we would be flying to 4N1
> instead of shooting any additional approaches.
>
> His comment to me was that I couldn't have done a better job and
> although I was exhausted, I was pleased. We flew to Greenwood Lake for
> a VOR approach there before heading back to CDW for a LOC approach to
> Rwy 22. Once we were back on the ground my instructor informed me that
> he wanted me to call the examiner and schedule the checkride, which I
> scheduled for May 17. Now I have to prepare for the oral, which I'm
> not really worried about since I think I have a good grasp on this
> stuff. Hopefully the 100 on the written will help. Now I just have to
> make sure I don't make too many mistakes on the practical so that I
> don't have to do it twice. Thanks everyone for all the support.
>
> Cecil: I'll be thinking about you as I prepare.
>
> Dave

Roy Smith

May 7th 04, 07:39 PM

In article >,
(David B. Cole) wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback guys, but after a crappy day of flying today I
> think I'm going to postpone. We went up yesterday to do steep turns
> and partial panel unusual attitudes, which weren't bad. Today the
> plan was to fly to Sussex (FWN) and Lincoln Park (N07) for GPS
> approaches. But for some reason on the final approach course into
> Sussex, I couldn't hold the CDI on the GPS because I never found a
> good reference heading and I just watched it go side to side,
> something which is unusual for me. I also botched all of my calls
> over the CTAF. My instructor asked what the problem was and whether I
> was scanning the CDI, at which point I said let's go back. I took off
> the foogles and flew back visually, landed, and packed it in. On the
> ground he asked what was wrong and I told him I was going to cancel
> the checkride. He couldn't understand what went wrong as my flying
> has been very consistent and good lately. Maybe it was the idea of
> taking the checkride and possibly failing that has me distracted.
> Maybe it's the idea of getting out there with the rating and flying by
> myself. Oh well, I would probably stop altogether if I didn't care
> about spending all the money with nothing to show.

David,

Don't get too worked up over this. Sometimes you just have a crappy
day. It happens to everyone. Maybe all you need to do now is take a
few days off (just enough to give your brain a rest but not so long that
your skills start to erode), then get back in the saddle.

Ben Jackson

May 7th 04, 07:45 PM

In article >,
David B. Cole > wrote:
>Thanks for the feedback guys, but after a crappy day of flying today I
>think I'm going to postpone.

Heh, after the first post about a great day of flying I was going to say
how that happened to me and then because of the time left before the
checkride we flew again and I flew horribly. Real confidence builder. ;-)

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

David Megginson

May 7th 04, 07:56 PM

David B. Cole wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback guys, but after a crappy day of flying today I
> think I'm going to postpone.

Give yourself another chance before you postpone.

Some people in these newsgroups might claim that their flying is perfect and
always has been, but many of the rest of us have gone through exactly the
same thing that you just went through: it happened to me the day before my
first solo, again during my first flubbed pre-PPL practice flight test, and
again during my first flubbed pre-IFR practice flight test, in every case
because of nerves and shaken confidence.

You're probably about to make a similar breakthrough -- in one or two
flights your confidence will come back, everything will seem easier than it
ever was before, and you'll be happy that you didn't postpone or give up.
I'm sure that your instructor has seen this pattern before.

All the best,

David

Judah

May 8th 04, 07:53 AM

Roy Smith > wrote in
:

> Judah > wrote:
>> Bring the freakin' book
>
> Good advice.
>
>> even if it is your 2000 edition from your private.
>
> Bad advice. It's bad form to show up for a checkride with anything
> which is outdated. Using last year's AIM is unlikely to ever cause you
> any real harm, but why risk disaster if currency of publications is
> something your examiner happens to have a bug up his butt about?
>
> It doesn't really matter if he's right or wrong, getting into an
> argument with the examiner on a checkride is rarely useful.
>
Hi Roy!

That's a valid point...

I guess my thought was the guy was already claiming that he would never
have a reason to open the book in real life, so the thought that he would
consider buying an updated version seemed unlikely...

Wizard of Draws

May 8th 04, 02:11 PM

On 5/8/04 2:53 AM, in article ,
"Judah" > wrote:

>
> I guess my thought was the guy was already claiming that he would never
> have a reason to open the book in real life, so the thought that he would
> consider buying an updated version seemed unlikely...
>

One of the reasons I dislike getting into long discussions on Usenet is that
any position quickly becomes mischaracterized, misquoted or grossly
distorted, because people are unable or unwilling to *read* what was
actually written.
It's extremely odd to me that pilots can be so anal retentive in so many
aspects, yet when it comes to reading comprehension in newsgroups, they fail
so miserably.

Judah, please reread my post that you "quoted" from. Pay particular
attention to the tense that I used and compare it to the tense that you
place my statements in.

That said, I will take the advice given here and take a current FAR/AIM to
my checkride when it is scheduled.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com

Judah

May 8th 04, 10:19 PM

This was your quote:

> I fail to see the reasoning behind demonstrating my FAR/AIM research
> skills, as it pertains to my ability to fly safely. I see that it is
> recommended to bring the book to the ride, but since I've had no need to
> crack open the thing in my last 4 years of flying, I don't see the point.
> I think a DE should test the real world, not abstract FAA mumbo jumbo.

The implication is that it is a waste for you to even own a copy because
you have had no need to use it, and it does not represent the "real world".
To you it is abstract FAA mumbo jumbo.

I don't think I mischaracterized or distorted what you said at all.

One of the things I don't like on Usenet is that people write things that
they didn't really mean or think through, and then get insulted when
someone else takes it for what it says without somehow knowing that the
author didn't really mean it...

Admittedly, I have done it too. But I try not to take it so seriously when
someone else reiterates my comments and all of a sudden they don't sound so
good anymore.

Anyway, good luck on your test. I just got my Instrument Rating in
February. I brought my FAR/AIM along, and the DE not only grilled me until
he could catch me on something I didn't know, but he kept going until he
found something that I didn't even know where to look up. When I went to
the FAR/AIM, though, we used his copy, not mine...

;)

Wizard of Draws > wrote in
news:BCC254B4.E5AF%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws .com:

> On 5/8/04 2:53 AM, in article
> , "Judah" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I guess my thought was the guy was already claiming that he would
>> never have a reason to open the book in real life, so the thought that
>> he would consider buying an updated version seemed unlikely...
>>
>
> One of the reasons I dislike getting into long discussions on Usenet is
> that any position quickly becomes mischaracterized, misquoted or
> grossly distorted, because people are unable or unwilling to *read*
> what was actually written.
> It's extremely odd to me that pilots can be so anal retentive in so
> many aspects, yet when it comes to reading comprehension in newsgroups,
> they fail so miserably.
>
> Judah, please reread my post that you "quoted" from. Pay particular
> attention to the tense that I used and compare it to the tense that you
> place my statements in.
>
> That said, I will take the advice given here and take a current FAR/AIM
> to my checkride when it is scheduled.

Wizard of Draws

May 9th 04, 01:18 AM

On 5/8/04 5:19 PM, in article ,
"Judah" > wrote:

> This was your quote:
>
>> I fail to see the reasoning behind demonstrating my FAR/AIM research
>> skills, as it pertains to my ability to fly safely. I see that it is
>> recommended to bring the book to the ride, but since I've had no need to
>> crack open the thing in my last 4 years of flying, I don't see the point.
>> I think a DE should test the real world, not abstract FAA mumbo jumbo.
>
> The implication is that it is a waste for you to even own a copy because
> you have had no need to use it, and it does not represent the "real world".
> To you it is abstract FAA mumbo jumbo.
>
> I don't think I mischaracterized or distorted what you said at all.
>
> One of the things I don't like on Usenet is that people write things that
> they didn't really mean or think through, and then get insulted when
> someone else takes it for what it says without somehow knowing that the
> author didn't really mean it...
>
> Admittedly, I have done it too. But I try not to take it so seriously when
> someone else reiterates my comments and all of a sudden they don't sound so
> good anymore.
>
>
> Anyway, good luck on your test. I just got my Instrument Rating in
> February. I brought my FAR/AIM along, and the DE not only grilled me until
> he could catch me on something I didn't know, but he kept going until he
> found something that I didn't even know where to look up. When I went to
> the FAR/AIM, though, we used his copy, not mine...
>
> ;)
>
>

I meant no implication beyond what I wrote. I wrote that I had not had a
reason to open the book in the last 4 years of my real world flying, *not*
that I would never see a reason to use it in the future. I have no crystal
ball and cannot and did not make such a claim.

As for the "FAA mumbo jumbo", it is precisely the debates that go on in this
and the other aviation newsgroups about the interpretation of the FARs that
make me label them as such. Often we can't agree among ourselves what they
mean, and as a lowly 250 hour, non-lawyer pilot, I can assure you that I
will not be arguing the legal nuances of any of them with anyone. What
better definition of mumbo jumbo could anyone require?

I will say again that your experience with a DE digging at your knowledge
base until he finds an obscure question you do not know and are forced to
research while he looks on, which seems to be the norm according to most
accounts given here, seems pointless and only purpose appears to be to
inflate the ego of the DE. I recognize that I could be wrong.

Thank you for the good wishes and fly safe.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com

Andrew Gideon

May 9th 04, 02:45 AM

David B. Cole wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> I'm taking the checkride with Marcus. Yeah, I guess this means that I
> will have to join the PFC. :-)
>
> Dave
>

No, you don't *have* to. I read once that someone didn't, and it was days
before he was hunted down.

In case I don't see you (will you be at MAPA?), good luck. But if you want
to discuss my own experiences with your DE...

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon

May 9th 04, 02:52 AM

David B. Cole wrote:

> Today the
> plan was to fly to Sussex (FWN) and Lincoln Park (N07) for GPS
> approaches.

I don't think you realize just how difficult this is. There's something
less than zero setup time between Caldwell and those airports. After my
rating, I used them to exercize the speed with which I could go from zero
to completely briefed and set up approach.

The first time I did it, I think I was finally set up as I was taxiing back
to depart Sussex.

Besides, one bad day and you'll ditch the test? The test itself isn't so
strict.

- Andrew

David B. Cole

May 12th 04, 10:01 PM

Andrew,

Well, we went up today and performed the GPS Rwy 3 into Sussex, GPS 19
into Lincoln Park, and NBD-GPS Rwy 22 back into Caldwell and
everything went well. I was determined to redeem myself after my
performance last week. It's amazing how much influence your mindset
has on flying, how it changes day to day, and how small things that
aren't even at the top of your mind can impact you. But today I was
determined to fly the way I knew I could and walk away with a sense of
accomplishment. I think Stanley only made two or three minor comments
once we were back on the ground. See you at MAPA tomorrow. And to
everyone else, thanks for the encouragement

Dave

David B. Cole

May 12th 04, 10:05 PM