What's the point of this?

[Paul Tomblin]

I was looking at Phoenix AZ on the low altitude en-route chart, and there
is a cluster of GPS waypoints charted all around the VOR (in the Class B).
I assume those are for GPS instrument approaches. Is there a reason why
those are charted on the en-route?

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I think I'd like to see a Simpsons episode starting up with Bart Simpson
writing 'I will not attempt to undermine the Usenet Cabal'.
-- J. D. Falk

[[email protected]]

Paul Tomblin wrote:

> I was looking at Phoenix AZ on the low altitude en-route chart, and there
> is a cluster of GPS waypoints charted all around the VOR (in the Class B).
> I assume those are for GPS instrument approaches. Is there a reason why
> those are charted on the en-route?

Those are waypoints on RNAV SIDs out of KPHX. The FAA and the airlines are
having a lot of problems getting those RNAV SIDs (aka: ATC DPs) to work
smoothly. It was thought by someone that including the fixes on the en route
chart would help.

But, who knows?

[Roy Smith]

In article >, wrote:
> The FAA and the airlines are having a lot of problems getting those
> RNAV SIDs (aka: ATC DPs) to work smoothly.

What does it mean for a SID not to work smoothly?

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Roy Smith wrote:

> In article >, wrote:
> > The FAA and the airlines are having a lot of problems getting those
> > RNAV SIDs (aka: ATC DPs) to work smoothly.
>
> What does it mean for a SID not to work smoothly?

They have had a whole lot of problems, particularly at PHX and LAS. The
various aircraft have RNAV avionics that handle the critical waypoints
and tracks differently. Also, even the positions are different for air
carrier aircraft with GPS and the older "glass cockpit" airliners that
use DME/DME updating.

There were periods where the FAA suspended use of the procedures because
of controller complaints. That, in turn, resulted in the airlines
whining to no end.

It got so bad the FAA belatedly issued an air traffic bulletin to
controllers covering the subject to some extent:

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/atbarc/03-5.htm