Garmin GpsMap 396 - Flight Test #3

[Mike Spera]

After the 2 ridiculous TFRs were lifted, I was able to test the swap
unit. As some of you may have read, the original unit kept losing
satellite lock and the dealer swapped it with a new unit at my request.

The replacement is much better. However, it still goes out to lunch
after transmitting on the COM for 7 seconds or so. I can live with that.

It still loses and regains WAAS frequently depending on which direction
you are flying. And, it goes to minimal sat reception with only 2-3 sats
bouncing around when heading Southeast.

But, it now stays strong in climb and descent.

I noticed it had SW rev 2.8 which has been upgraded to 3.1 (or is it
3.2??). Now that I think about it, the original had 2.8 also. I will
first upgrade to the latest SW version and flight test again. After
that, I will rebuild the almanac as was suggested in a previous posting
(now that Garmin let us know the "secret" startup button sequence).

Hey, Garmin! How about publishing ALL the various button combos and
diagnostics???? I believe I PAID for them.

I saw the TFRs in my area disappear around 4:00 and the one in Milwaukee
turn up yellow (pending). If the President's Office of Eternal Paranoia
keeps this up, the 396 will REALLY be useful in avoiding these traps.
Sunday calls for a 30% chance of Tstorms again. So, the 396 may earn its
keep again.

At this point, I think I will keep it.

Thanks to all,
Mike

[Jon Kraus]

To me for 2.2 AMU the thing ought to perform flawlessly, so saying "I
can live with that" when it craps out just because you are transmitting
on your com radio is a little on the insane side... That said I hope
all the bugs are worked out including removing the stupid magnet on the
XM antenna when I go to purchase mine. :-)

JK

Mike Spera wrote:
> After the 2 ridiculous TFRs were lifted, I was able to test the swap
> unit. As some of you may have read, the original unit kept losing
> satellite lock and the dealer swapped it with a new unit at my request.
>
> The replacement is much better. However, it still goes out to lunch
> after transmitting on the COM for 7 seconds or so. I can live with that.
>
> It still loses and regains WAAS frequently depending on which direction
> you are flying. And, it goes to minimal sat reception with only 2-3 sats
> bouncing around when heading Southeast.
>
> But, it now stays strong in climb and descent.
>
> I noticed it had SW rev 2.8 which has been upgraded to 3.1 (or is it
> 3.2??). Now that I think about it, the original had 2.8 also. I will
> first upgrade to the latest SW version and flight test again. After
> that, I will rebuild the almanac as was suggested in a previous posting
> (now that Garmin let us know the "secret" startup button sequence).
>
> Hey, Garmin! How about publishing ALL the various button combos and
> diagnostics???? I believe I PAID for them.
>
> I saw the TFRs in my area disappear around 4:00 and the one in Milwaukee
> turn up yellow (pending). If the President's Office of Eternal Paranoia
> keeps this up, the 396 will REALLY be useful in avoiding these traps.
> Sunday calls for a 30% chance of Tstorms again. So, the 396 may earn its
> keep again.
>
> At this point, I think I will keep it.
>
> Thanks to all,
> Mike

[Dan Luke]

"Mike Spera" wrote:

> The replacement is much better. However, it still goes out to lunch after
> transmitting on the COM for 7 seconds or so. I can live with that.

This is not something you should have to live with. It should be solid in
all circumstances--after all, thousands of users are apparently getting good
service from their 396s.

There seems to be some combination of an RFI source in your airplane and the
396's design that is producing the trouble. Since you can't change the
396's design, it's time to start serious trouble shooting on your COMs and
your electrical system.

> It still loses and regains WAAS frequently depending on which direction
> you are flying. And, it goes to minimal sat reception with only 2-3 sats
> bouncing around when heading Southeast.

I always have >7 satellites (well, every time I look, anyway).

Where do you put the antenna? What kind of Piper?

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Mike Spera]

>
>>The replacement is much better. However, it still goes out to lunch after
>>transmitting on the COM for 7 seconds or so. I can live with that.
>
>
> This is not something you should have to live with. It should be solid in
> all circumstances--after all, thousands of users are apparently getting good
> service from their 396s.

Since it takes 7+ seconds to send all the sata to zero, I'll just have
to learn to be less "chatty". Seriously, upon releasing the mic button,
all the sats pop back up and it has not lost lock on any transmissions yet.

>
> There seems to be some combination of an RFI source in your airplane and the
> 396's design that is producing the trouble. Since you can't change the
> 396's design, it's time to start serious trouble shooting on your COMs and
> your electrical system.
>
Maybe if I feel strongly motivated. I may just wait for someone else to
figure it out. I'm sure I am not alone.

>
>>It still loses and regains WAAS frequently depending on which direction
>>you are flying. And, it goes to minimal sat reception with only 2-3 sats
>>bouncing around when heading Southeast.
>
>
> I always have >7 satellites (well, every time I look, anyway).
>
> Where do you put the antenna? What kind of Piper?
>
74' Cherokee 140. Narco Mk12D and Narco 810+ radios. They both do the
same thing. Since each has its own antenna (of a different type), it
probably is not antenna related. It may be a Narco thing. I have the
antenna on the glareshield. Tried moving every possible place and the
problems remain.

As I said, I just upgraded the SW to 3.2. The 3.0 version had listed
"Improve satellite reception" as one of its fixes.
We will see if that makes a difference.


Thanks,
Mike

[Dan Luke]

"Mike Spera" wrote:

>> Where do you put the antenna? What kind of Piper?
>>
> 74' Cherokee 140. Narco Mk12D and Narco 810+ radios. They both do the same
> thing. Since each has its own antenna (of a different type), it probably
> is not antenna related. It may be a Narco thing.

Or it may be something to do with your audio panel or grounding.

> I have the antenna on the glareshield. Tried moving every possible place
> and the problems remain.
>
> As I said, I just upgraded the SW to 3.2. The 3.0 version had listed
> "Improve satellite reception" as one of its fixes.
> We will see if that makes a difference.

Good luck; this is a tough one.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[[email protected][_1_]]

Dan Luke wrote:
> "Mike Spera" wrote:
>
> >> Where do you put the antenna? What kind of Piper?
> >>
> > 74' Cherokee 140. Narco Mk12D and Narco 810+ radios. They both do the same
> > thing. Since each has its own antenna (of a different type), it probably
> > is not antenna related. It may be a Narco thing.
>
> Or it may be something to do with your audio panel or grounding.
>
> > I have the antenna on the glareshield. Tried moving every possible place
> > and the problems remain.
> >
> > As I said, I just upgraded the SW to 3.2. The 3.0 version had listed
> > "Improve satellite reception" as one of its fixes.
> > We will see if that makes a difference.
>
> Good luck; this is a tough one.
>
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM

Mike,

I just got a 396 in my plane 2 weeks ago and have 6+ hours with it so
far. I haven't seen any of these issues, and after reading your
messages I tried watching the satelites page today while transmitting
on both radios. Neither the Garmin SL-40 or the Becker COM radio had
any impact on the satelite strength.

I'm using the GPS antenna on the 396, and my XM antenna is about 3 feet
away from the 396. My software revision is 2.8 according to the startup
screen. The 396 is wired into the plane for power, and for audio alerts
via the audio panel. The XM antenna has an extension cable since it is
mounted on top of the rear instrument panel (tandem seating).

Good luck with the trouble shooting. The fact that you are having
issues with the second unit suggests that there is something weird
about how the 396 is designed and how it is interacting with your
plane. Hope you get it figured out...

Eric
1959 Pilatus P-3 A-848
http://www.hometown.aol.com/bartscher/P3A848.html

[Michael Ware]

"Mike Spera" > wrote in message
k.net...
>*snip*
> 74' Cherokee 140. Narco Mk12D and Narco 810+ radios. They both do the
> same thing. Since each has its own antenna (of a different type), it
> probably is not antenna related. It may be a Narco thing. I have the
> antenna on the glareshield. Tried moving every possible place and the
> problems remain.
>*snip*
> Thanks,
> Mike

If you own the plane, maybe try having extenal antennae mounted. Can't hurt,
except $ wise for the install.

Mike

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article et>,
Mike Spera > wrote:

> After the 2 ridiculous TFRs were lifted, I was able to test the swap
> unit. As some of you may have read, the original unit kept losing
> satellite lock and the dealer swapped it with a new unit at my request.


I assume that you're also using a replacement antenna?

Obviously, you have a RFI issue with your coms, and that may very well
be specific to your airplane. I have a 25 year old King stack, and have
no interference at all, and sats are almost always pegged at near full
reception. The 396 is on the yoke and the GA26 is at the forward part
of the windscreen, just above the avionics stack.

I do have a GA56 mounted on the top of the cabin, and I get slightly
more reliable reception with that, but I've elected to save it for a
future panel-mount GPS. You might want to have an avionics shop put a
GA56 on the airplane and give that a try.



JKG

[Dan Luke]

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote:


> I assume that you're also using a replacement antenna?


Good question!

[Mike Spera]

Dan Luke wrote:

> "Jonathan Goodish" wrote:
>
>
>
>>I assume that you're also using a replacement antenna?
>
>
>
> Good question!
>
>
Yep, they swapped the unit, the stubby, and the remote.

Mike

[Dan Luke]

"Mike Spera" wrote:

> Dan Luke wrote:
>
>> "Jonathan Goodish" wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I assume that you're also using a replacement antenna?
>>
>>
>>
>> Good question!
> Yep, they swapped the unit, the stubby, and the remote.

Dang!

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article et>,
Mike Spera > wrote:

> Dan Luke wrote:
>
> > "Jonathan Goodish" wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>I assume that you're also using a replacement antenna?
> >
> >
> >
> > Good question!
> >
> >
> Yep, they swapped the unit, the stubby, and the remote.
>
> Mike


There's only one solution: new airplane.



JKG

[john smith]

In article >,
Jonathan Goodish > wrote:

> > >>I assume that you're also using a replacement antenna?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Good question!
> > >
> > >
> > Yep, they swapped the unit, the stubby, and the remote.

> > Mike

> There's only one solution: new airplane.

Flint: Did you empty the ashtrays?
Pilot: No sir, I bought you a new plane!

From the movie "Our Man Flint" or "In Like Flint", Montblack can deliver
the details.

[John Theune]

john smith wrote:
> In article >,
> Jonathan Goodish > wrote:
>
>>>>> I assume that you're also using a replacement antenna?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good question!
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yep, they swapped the unit, the stubby, and the remote.
>
>>> Mike
>
>> There's only one solution: new airplane.
>
> Flint: Did you empty the ashtrays?
> Pilot: No sir, I bought you a new plane!
>
> From the movie "Our Man Flint" or "In Like Flint", Montblack can deliver
> the details.
I remember the line, think it was "In Like Flint"

[Montblack[_1_]]

("john smith" wrote)
>> There's only one solution: new airplane.

> Flint: Did you empty the ashtrays?
> Pilot: No sir, I bought you a new plane!
>
> From the movie "Our Man Flint" or "In Like Flint", Montblack can deliver
> the details.


IMDB is your friend :-)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061810/trivia
Trivia for "In Like Flint." (1967)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061810/quotes
Quote - Bill Lear


Montblack