Winch for Sale - U.S.

[Bob Lacovara]

Winch for Sale - U.S. (Pennsylvania)

Philadelphia Glider Council is selling a 350 Chevy based winch with
4500 ft. of relatively new high tensile rope. Capable of launching a
max gross Grob 103 to 1200 ft with 3600 ft of cable out. Complete with
chute and rigging - ready to go. $5,000 USD. Contact Jack Goritski -
for photos and complete details.

[Jim Vincent]

"Bob Lacovara" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Winch for Sale - U.S. (Pennsylvania)
>
> Philadelphia Glider Council is selling a 350 Chevy based winch with
> 4500 ft. of relatively new high tensile rope. Capable of launching a
> max gross Grob 103 to 1200 ft with 3600 ft of cable out. Complete with
> chute and rigging - ready to go. $5,000 USD. Contact Jack Goritski -
> for photos and complete details.


If it can launch a max Gross G103, then what was the rationale spending $20k
on a new one?

[Marc Ramsey]

Jim Vincent wrote:
> "Bob Lacovara" > wrote...
>> Philadelphia Glider Council is selling a 350 Chevy based winch with
>> 4500 ft. of relatively new high tensile rope. Capable of launching a
>> max gross Grob 103 to 1200 ft with 3600 ft of cable out. Complete with
>> chute and rigging - ready to go. $5,000 USD. Contact Jack Goritski -
>> for photos and complete details.
>
> If it can launch a max Gross G103, then what was the rationale spending $20k
> on a new one?

What kind of "new" winch did they get for $20K?

[Jim Vincent]

"> What kind of "new" winch did they get for $20K?

http://www.pgcsoaring.org/Opening%20Day%202006.htm


Club Winch Club Equipment
Two Drum Eagle Winch - Truck Mounted

455 Oldsmobile

Auto transmission

4500' Spectra rope

Tost rigging

[Marc Ramsey]

Jim Vincent wrote:
> "> What kind of "new" winch did they get for $20K?
>
> http://www.pgcsoaring.org/Opening%20Day%202006.htm
>
>
> Club Winch Club Equipment
> Two Drum Eagle Winch - Truck Mounted
>
> 455 Oldsmobile
>
> Auto transmission
>
> 4500' Spectra rope
>
> Tost rigging
>

Nice winch, I was tempted by that one myself...

[Jim Vincent]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Jim's question seems a bit silly since he actually knows the whole
> story--but an answer is in order. PGC has successfully used the single
> drum winch for sale to launch full gross Grobs on many ocassions (Dean
> Carswell conducted 30+ training filights on it one weekend--all dual in
> Grob 103s). With 3600 feet of rope out, however, and retrieve over
> less than perfecly smooth ground, our turn around time is excessive for
> a large club with 120 members. The dual drum winch can make a big
> difference in the number of operations per hour--simple logic, but I
> guess we must mention it.
>
> Of course the extra power of the newer winch is nice to have, to say
> nothing of the fact that the newer winch is mounted on a roadable truck
> bed.
>
> If you are interested in this winch contact Jack as noted in the
> initial post. I suspect that we will all see more ground launches as
> the cost of av fuel reaches new highs.
>
> Fly safe--
>
> Skip Guimond

Hey Skippy! Regarding the whole story, I have heard many of you esteemed
PGC demi-gods say that the old winch is underpowered and inadequate for
towing the G-103. I always maintained that it was just fine if you knew to
transition your climb properly. Maybe you finally learned to do that
properly?

Regarding value of the dual drum winch, my friends and I used to do about
5-6 snaps per hour off that single drum. Watching you guys, you were lucky
to get two an hour. The dual winch can't make up for your silliness. But
when you have money to burn from the high entrance fee and 40-50% turnover
every two years, what the heck, spend the money. After all, you guys are
the premier glasshole establishment on the East coast with a 60 year
history, blah, blah, blah. Never mind that the money was never approved by
the membership to go buy the winch.

Regarding buying the old winch, be very careful. PGC had an agreement to
sell that winch to a partnership and then renigged on the deal, wanting more
money. One of the members of that partnership had donated the engine for
the winch and the partnership had done about 90% of the work of getting that
winch up and running. That is goodwill for you.
>

[Wallace Berry]

In article . com>,
wrote:

> Jim's question seems a bit silly since he actually knows the whole
> story--but an answer is in order. PGC has successfully used the single
> drum winch for sale to launch full gross Grobs on many ocassions (Dean
> Carswell conducted 30+ training filights on it one weekend--all dual in
> Grob 103s). With 3600 feet of rope out, however, and retrieve over
> less than perfecly smooth ground, our turn around time is excessive for
> a large club with 120 members. The dual drum winch can make a big
> difference in the number of operations per hour--simple logic, but I
> guess we must mention it.
>
> Of course the extra power of the newer winch is nice to have, to say
> nothing of the fact that the newer winch is mounted on a roadable truck
> bed.
>
> If you are interested in this winch contact Jack as noted in the
> initial post. I suspect that we will all see more ground launches as
> the cost of av fuel reaches new highs.
>
> Fly safe--
>
> Skip Guimond
>

I was the main winch driver for the Southern Eagles Club where the Eagle
winch originated (designed and built by Glen Lawler in Auburn, AL). I've
probably driven more launches with it than anyone. The difference
between a good winch and all the rest is in ease of use and reliability.
The Eagle winch is very easy to use and has been extremely reliable. The
only problems we ever encountered with it was the guillotine blades got
loose after 2000 launches and clipped off a cable splice, and once when
we had a simulated cable break, I didn't get on the brakes fast enough,
causing a cable tangle that got out of the drum and wiped out a brake
line. The Spectra line is the way to go. It doesn't throw a tangle the
way steel cable does. The winch was really still in the prototype stage
when we started using it and Glen never got around to finishing the
mechanism for selecting the left or right drum from inside the cab. You
have a great machine, I hope you get a lot of good use out of it. I miss
it still.

Wallace

[Jim Vincent]

"Wallace Berry" > wrote in message
...
> In article . com>,
> wrote:
>
>> The difference
> between a good winch and all the rest is in ease of use and reliability.
> The Eagle winch is very easy to use and has been extremely reliable.

Wallace,

You make a very good point here. In the past, that winch was very
reliable...we never had a problem that we could not fixed or affected winch
launch safety. As long as you have someone that can change the oil
occasionally and do minimal maintenance. THAT must be why PGC is selling
it; everyone who knows anything about working on it has quit! Let's see...
Head of "green thing" maintenance (the four wheel ATVs)...quit
Head of field maintenance...quit
75% of maintenance committee...quit.

Who is left? Oh yeah....Jack! The Princeton graduate who never went to
Princeton? The Engineer who cannot comprehend a gear warning circuit? The
A&P who doesn't have an A&P but tells everyone that he does? The guy who
mixes epoxy in Wawa coffee cups and then installs flight surfaces on
aircraft? The one that falsifies log book entries? Yeah, that's the one!
Sure, touch base with him and I'm sure he'll tell you how wonderful the
winch is and how perfectly he has maintained it. Be sure to look under the
seat when you get the winch for your lucky surprise. So far I've found
tools under two seat pans of gliders that Jack has worked on.

[JD[_1_]]

We've run across this guy Vincent or Hussain, whatever his name is now,
at the Ridge. At one point he was bending my ear about techniques for
flying my new Discus 2b, only to find our he'd never flown one. It
seems the he spreads disconcert and ill-will in a number of locations.
I know some of the people at PGC and they run a first-class operation
and have good equipment. I incidentally spoke with Dean Carswell after
he did the winch course at PGC and he said the operation ran well. I
suspect every club has, or has had, a malcontent outsider who has
nothing good to say. I had to deal with a couple of these personalities
at my former club. The tone of Vincent's comments makes it clear that
he has a axe to grind and I take his foul-mouthing with a grain of
salt.

My thought is that we should be doing more winching in the U.S. and if
this functional winch for sale can help a soaring group get started
that is a benefit. From the looks of it, it appears PGC made a good
choice in buying the new winch. Notwithstanding Mr. Vincents venom,
good luck with the new machine.

JD




Jim Vincent wrote:
> "Wallace Berry" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article . com>,
> > wrote:
> >
> >> The difference
> > between a good winch and all the rest is in ease of use and reliability.
> > The Eagle winch is very easy to use and has been extremely reliable.
>
> Wallace,
>
> You make a very good point here. In the past, that winch was very
> reliable...we never had a problem that we could not fixed or affected winch
> launch safety. As long as you have someone that can change the oil
> occasionally and do minimal maintenance. THAT must be why PGC is selling
> it; everyone who knows anything about working on it has quit! Let's see...
> Head of "green thing" maintenance (the four wheel ATVs)...quit
> Head of field maintenance...quit
> 75% of maintenance committee...quit.
>
> Who is left? Oh yeah....Jack! The Princeton graduate who never went to
> Princeton? The Engineer who cannot comprehend a gear warning circuit? The
> A&P who doesn't have an A&P but tells everyone that he does? The guy who
> mixes epoxy in Wawa coffee cups and then installs flight surfaces on
> aircraft? The one that falsifies log book entries? Yeah, that's the one!
> Sure, touch base with him and I'm sure he'll tell you how wonderful the
> winch is and how perfectly he has maintained it. Be sure to look under the
> seat when you get the winch for your lucky surprise. So far I've found
> tools under two seat pans of gliders that Jack has worked on.

[[email protected]]

I thought Lenny was gone for good!! When did he move east?


JD wrote:
> We've run across this guy Vincent or Hussain, whatever his name is now,
snip

[Gary Emerson[_1_]]

Jim Vincent wrote:
> "> What kind of "new" winch did they get for $20K?
>
> http://www.pgcsoaring.org/Opening%20Day%202006.htm
>
>
> Club Winch Club Equipment
> Two Drum Eagle Winch - Truck Mounted
>
> 455 Oldsmobile
>
> Auto transmission
>
> 4500' Spectra rope
>
> Tost rigging
>
>
>
Maybe I didn't see it correctly, but those rollers at the bottom look to
be a fairly small diameter. Much less critical with spectra, but still,
something with a 6" or better radius sure would be more friendly to the
cable long term.

[Jim Vincent]

"JD" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> We've run across this guy Vincent or Hussain, whatever his name is now,
> at the Ridge.

My name is Jim Vincent and has been for about five years. It is the result
of a legal name change. You go by initials...no name?

At one point he was bending my ear about techniques for
> flying my new Discus 2b, only to find our he'd never flown one.
How did I "bend your ear" and what did I share with you that was erroneous?
Frankly, I have no recollection of meeting you.
It
> seems the he spreads disconcert and ill-will in a number of locations.
Great assumption on your part with the preface that I "seem" to spread in a
number of locations? Care to expand on your gross assumption?


> I know some of the people at PGC and they run a first-class operation
> and have good equipment.
First class operation with 50% turnover in two years? This is a club that
is over 50 years old? The facts speak for themselves. Yes, they do have
wonderful equipment!

I incidentally spoke with Dean Carswell after
> he did the winch course at PGC and he said the operation ran well.
Good for him! Maybe they got it right that day.
I
> suspect every club has, or has had, a malcontent outsider who has
> nothing good to say. I had to deal with a couple of these personalities
> at my former club. The tone of Vincent's comments makes it clear that
> he has a axe to grind and I take his foul-mouthing with a grain of
> salt.
Another great assumption on your part. JD, you don't even know me.
>
> My thought is that we should be doing more winching in the U.S. and if
> this functional winch for sale can help a soaring group get started
> that is a benefit. From the looks of it, it appears PGC made a good
> choice in buying the new winch. Notwithstanding Mr. Vincents venom,
> good luck with the new machine.

PGC bought a great winch and I agree, we should be winching more in the US.
It is a hoot and too often perceived as dangerous.

Please, feel free to join PGC...you seem like you just might fit it.
>
> JD
>
>
>
>
> Jim Vincent wrote:
>> "Wallace Berry" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article . com>,
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> The difference
>> > between a good winch and all the rest is in ease of use and
>> > reliability.
>> > The Eagle winch is very easy to use and has been extremely reliable.
>>
>> Wallace,
>>
>> You make a very good point here. In the past, that winch was very
>> reliable...we never had a problem that we could not fixed or affected
>> winch
>> launch safety. As long as you have someone that can change the oil
>> occasionally and do minimal maintenance. THAT must be why PGC is selling
>> it; everyone who knows anything about working on it has quit! Let's
>> see...
>> Head of "green thing" maintenance (the four wheel ATVs)...quit
>> Head of field maintenance...quit
>> 75% of maintenance committee...quit.
>>
>> Who is left? Oh yeah....Jack! The Princeton graduate who never went to
>> Princeton? The Engineer who cannot comprehend a gear warning circuit?
>> The
>> A&P who doesn't have an A&P but tells everyone that he does? The guy who
>> mixes epoxy in Wawa coffee cups and then installs flight surfaces on
>> aircraft? The one that falsifies log book entries? Yeah, that's the
>> one!
>> Sure, touch base with him and I'm sure he'll tell you how wonderful the
>> winch is and how perfectly he has maintained it. Be sure to look under
>> the
>> seat when you get the winch for your lucky surprise. So far I've found
>> tools under two seat pans of gliders that Jack has worked on.
>