Oshkosh Bound Posters, Approach Procedures, and Such [Archive]

Eric Bartsch

July 19th 06, 02:11 AM

> "RST Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The 2006 Oshkosh Bound posters, the Ripon-Fisk-Oshkosh graphic procedures,
> > and a couple of "wallpaper" graphics of the Oshkosh sectional are posted
> > with a click from:
> >
> > www.rstengineering.com

I noticed that the signs on your website indicate that they should be
printed in various colors, but the ones on the Airventure NOTAM site
don't indicate any colors.

http://www.airventure.org/atc/arrival_signs.html

Did the color coding go out of use, or do I find that information
elsewhere.

Thanks,
Eric
1959 Pilatus P-3 A-848
http://www.hometown.aol.com/bartscher/P3A848.html

john smith

July 19th 06, 04:53 AM

In article >,
Margy Natalie > wrote:

> Thanks! We will miss you! It was great seeing you in Sacramento and
> getting a private tour of the capital! Thanks for lunch and hope to see
> you at OSH next year. BTW haven't seen any pics of the puppy yet, maybe
> Jay will post them on the website!

What!!! He's giving private tours of the capital? I thought Jim lost the
election?

RST Engineering

July 19th 06, 05:19 AM

Jim knew every inch of the Capitol ten years before he ran for governor. It
was my job for eight years to beat on heads in the Assembly and Senate when
it came time for the money split every year at budget time. I live in a
little community about 70 miles north of Sacramento, and I could be from my
office in the county building to the floor of the assembly in 45 minutes
flat using the 182 from Grass Valley and a standing-by taxi at Sacramento
Executive.

Jim

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Margy Natalie > wrote:
>
>> Thanks! We will miss you! It was great seeing you in Sacramento and
>> getting a private tour of the capital! Thanks for lunch and hope to see
>> you at OSH next year. BTW haven't seen any pics of the puppy yet, maybe
>> Jay will post them on the website!
>
> What!!! He's giving private tours of the capital? I thought Jim lost the
> election?

Randy Aldous

July 19th 06, 06:49 PM

Eric Bartsch wrote:
> > "RST Engineering" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > The 2006 Oshkosh Bound posters, the Ripon-Fisk-Oshkosh graphic procedures,
> > > and a couple of "wallpaper" graphics of the Oshkosh sectional are posted
> > > with a click from:
> > >
> > > www.rstengineering.com
>
> I noticed that the signs on your website indicate that they should be
> printed in various colors, but the ones on the Airventure NOTAM site
> don't indicate any colors.
>
> http://www.airventure.org/atc/arrival_signs.html
>
> Did the color coding go out of use, or do I find that information
> elsewhere.
>
> Thanks,
> Eric
> 1959 Pilatus P-3 A-848
> http://www.hometown.aol.com/bartscher/P3A848.html

Eric - you'll find the color of paper on which to print the sign(s)
noted in the small instructional print - either at the bottom of the
"fill-in-the-blank" area or at the bottom of the sign itself.

Morgans[_3_]

July 19th 06, 10:10 PM

"Randy Aldous" > wrote

> Eric - you'll find the color of paper on which to print the sign(s)
> noted in the small instructional print - either at the bottom of the
> "fill-in-the-blank" area or at the bottom of the sign itself.
My bet is that not many will pay attention to the paper color, and still do
OK. The MOST important thing is that your sigh should be a full page of
paper, and the letters should be solid, and as large as possible and still
fit on the page.

The guy trying to read the sign wants to be able to read what it says from a
great distance back, through your window, with the sun glaring off of it, so
he can point you in the right direction. The problem comes when people
realize they don't have a sign, and at the last moment take a pencil and
scribble the letters 4 inches high, and then get mad when you make them
stop, or point them in the wrong direction. Get it? <g>
--
Jim in NC

.Blueskies.

July 19th 06, 10:30 PM

"Morgans" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Randy Aldous" > wrote
>
>> Eric - you'll find the color of paper on which to print the sign(s)
>> noted in the small instructional print - either at the bottom of the
>> "fill-in-the-blank" area or at the bottom of the sign itself.
> My bet is that not many will pay attention to the paper color, and still do
> OK. The MOST important thing is that your sigh should be a full page of
> paper, and the letters should be solid, and as large as possible and still
> fit on the page.
>
> The guy trying to read the sign wants to be able to read what it says from a
> great distance back, through your window, with the sun glaring off of it, so
> he can point you in the right direction. The problem comes when people
> realize they don't have a sign, and at the last moment take a pencil and
> scribble the letters 4 inches high, and then get mad when you make them
> stop, or point them in the wrong direction. Get it? <g>
> --
> Jim in NC
>

No mention of any colors required here:
http://www.airventure.org/atc/arrival_signs.html

Looks like big block letters on a white background...
Looks like Jim's are all dated from last year. Did something change?

dd

john smith

July 19th 06, 11:31 PM

Jim Weir....
Have you considered adding VFR and IFR cards to the downloads for
aircraft departing?

Eric Bartsch

July 20th 06, 12:01 AM

Randy Aldous wrote:
> >
> > I noticed that the signs on your website indicate that they should be
> > printed in various colors, but the ones on the Airventure NOTAM site
> > don't indicate any colors.
> >
> > http://www.airventure.org/atc/arrival_signs.html
> >
> > Did the color coding go out of use, or do I find that information
> > elsewhere.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eric
> > 1959 Pilatus P-3 A-848
> > http://www.hometown.aol.com/bartscher/P3A848.html
>
> Eric - you'll find the color of paper on which to print the sign(s)
> noted in the small instructional print - either at the bottom of the
> "fill-in-the-blank" area or at the bottom of the sign itself.

I've looked on the airventure site again and I still find no mention of
using colors for the signs. Can anyone who thinks colors should be
used, send a reference to where those instructions come from? I recall
seeing people using colored signs in the past but couldn't find
anything relevant to this year...

Thanks,
Eric

Morgans[_3_]

July 20th 06, 12:26 AM

".Blueskies." > wrote

> No mention of any colors required here:
> http://www.airventure.org/atc/arrival_signs.html
>
> Looks like big block letters on a white background...
> Looks like Jim's are all dated from last year. Did something change?

Looks like you noticed something.

Jim (I'm guessing) got his from EAA last year, and they were trying the
colors. I did not notice many people using the colors last year, so they
probably just gave up on colors for this year, since nobody used them,
anyway.
--
Jim in NC

john smith

July 20th 06, 02:05 AM

In article m>,
"Eric Bartsch" > wrote:

> I've looked on the airventure site again and I still find no mention of
> using colors for the signs. Can anyone who thinks colors should be
> used, send a reference to where those instructions come from? I recall
> seeing people using colored signs in the past but couldn't find
> anything relevant to this year...

Is it in the NOTAM?

.Blueskies.

July 20th 06, 02:23 AM

Paul Tomblin

July 20th 06, 02:27 AM

In a previous article, ".Blueskies." > said:
>"john smith" > wrote in message
...
>> In article m>,
>> "Eric Bartsch" > wrote:
>>> I've looked on the airventure site again and I still find no mention of
>>> using colors for the signs. Can anyone who thinks colors should be
>>
>> Is it in the NOTAM?
>
>
>Yes, page 1 of the notam...
>
>http://www.airventure.org/2006/flying/notam06.pdf

I'm looking page 1 of the NOTAM right now, and I still don't see any
mention of colours for the signs. What drugs are you on?

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Using vi is kind of like having sex. The first time to use it, it's kind
of awkward, but after using for a while you start to get good at it and
enjoy it. -- Eric Merkel

Eric Bartsch

July 20th 06, 02:50 AM

..Blueskies. wrote:
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article m>,
> > "Eric Bartsch" > wrote:
> >
> >> I've looked on the airventure site again and I still find no mention of
> >> using colors for the signs. Can anyone who thinks colors should be
> >> used, send a reference to where those instructions come from? I recall
> >> seeing people using colored signs in the past but couldn't find
> >> anything relevant to this year...
> >
> > Is it in the NOTAM?
>
>
> Yes, page 1 of the notam...
>
> http://www.airventure.org/2006/flying/notam06.pdf

Ok, I hate to be a pain in the a** about this, but I had read the
airventure site and the NOTAM multiple times prior to my initial
posting and there is nothing I can find about colored signs. If I'm
missing something then I'd really appreciate someone giving specific
information on where this information is.

I've included the text from the NOTAM page 1:
http://www.airventure.org/2006/flying/notam06.pdf

"Pilots landing at OSH should have a sign to designate
their intended parking or camping area. The
sign should have large dark letters readable from at
least fifty feet. It can be hand made or printed from
www.airventure.org/atc/arrival_signs.html. Display
the sign in the left side of your windshield after landing
and use one of the following codes" (the pictures of the signs follow
this text)

Neither this text or the link to the online signs has anything about
colors. I could definitely be missing something, but so far I'm not
convinced that they are using anything beyond white signs with big
block letters...

Thanks,
Eric

.Blueskies.

July 20th 06, 02:51 AM

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message ...
> In a previous article, ".Blueskies." > said:
>>"john smith" > wrote in message
...
>>> In article m>,
>>> "Eric Bartsch" > wrote:
>>>> I've looked on the airventure site again and I still find no mention of
>>>> using colors for the signs. Can anyone who thinks colors should be
>>>
>>> Is it in the NOTAM?
>>
>>
>>Yes, page 1 of the notam...
>>
>>http://www.airventure.org/2006/flying/notam06.pdf
>
> I'm looking page 1 of the NOTAM right now, and I still don't see any
> mention of colours for the signs. What drugs are you on?
>
>
>

Sorry, page one has the current sign codes, but not colors required (or even mentioned). I suffered from thread
overload...

Paul Tomblin

July 20th 06, 02:52 AM

In a previous article, "Morgans" > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote
>>
>> I'm looking page 1 of the NOTAM right now, and I still don't see any
>> mention of colours for the signs. What drugs are you on?
>
>Try to keep up!!! <g>

You're the one not keeping up.

>That bit was supposedly on Jim Wier's site, from last year's arrival
>procedures.

Look at the quoted text that you trimmed out obviously without reading.
Somebody asked why Jim Weir's site says to use coloured signs, and asked
if the use of colours is documented in the NOTAM. This "Blueskies" guy is
on drugs, because he said "Yes, it's in the NOTAM on page 1" and provided
a link to the NOTAM where it's totally obvious that there is no reference
to coloured paper.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I trust the cut & paste under Win2k's telnet about as far as I can
comfortably spit a rat.
-- John Burnham

Paul Tomblin

July 20th 06, 02:54 AM

In a previous article, ".Blueskies." > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message ...
>> In a previous article, ".Blueskies." > said:
>>>Yes, page 1 of the notam...
>>>
>>>http://www.airventure.org/2006/flying/notam06.pdf
>>
>> I'm looking page 1 of the NOTAM right now, and I still don't see any
>> mention of colours for the signs. What drugs are you on?
>Sorry, page one has the current sign codes, but not colors required (or
>even mentioned). I suffered from thread overload...

Ah, *those* drugs. I've partaken a few times myself.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"I don't mind your criticizing that way. It shows you are only just THOSE
kind person!" - sales@<domain deleted> takes constructive criticism well.

Jack Allison[_1_]

July 20th 06, 02:57 AM

Morgans wrote:
> Also, go out with a buddy and practice very slow flight, S turns to go
> slower on approach, fast approaches, and spot landings.

One hesitancy I'd have with S-turns is when on final. If things are too
close, that's the time to plan a go around. If you're S-turning, you
might be slowing down the guy behind you and creating more problems.
IMHO, if I'm too close to the guy ahead of me, I'd rather go around.
Just my 2 cents worth...

Bottom line, everyone arriving at OSH needs to be on their game and able
to maintain altitude/heading/speed. If unable, land elsewhere. It's
really not hard, anyone who considers themselves current should be able
to do the arrival...but it's amazing to see how many folks interpret
1000 AGL and 90 kts differently.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

john smith

July 20th 06, 03:31 AM

In article >,
"Morgans" > wrote:

> Have your buddy at the last moment, tell you to fly it down to the middle of
> the runway before touching down, or towards the end, or at the last minute,
> tell you to change from putting it down at midfield, to on the numbers, and
> try to shake you up.

"What is that idiot ahead of us doing? He's slowing down!"
"He was told to land at the far dot, he's landing on the near dot!"
"POWER! POWER! POWER!"
"GO AROUND! GO AROUND!"
(Based on a true experience!)

john smith

July 20th 06, 03:33 AM

In article >,
Jack Allison > wrote:

> Bottom line, everyone arriving at OSH needs to be on their game and able
> to maintain altitude/heading/speed. If unable, land elsewhere. It's
> really not hard, anyone who considers themselves current should be able
> to do the arrival...but it's amazing to see how many folks interpret
> 1000 AGL and 90 kts differently.

And remember, there will be faster airplanes flying 500 feet above and
over your! Maintain YOUR altitude!

Morgans[_3_]

July 20th 06, 03:36 AM

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article m>,
> "Eric Bartsch" > wrote:
>
> > I've looked on the airventure site again and I still find no mention of
> > using colors for the signs. Can anyone who thinks colors should be
> > used, send a reference to where those instructions come from? I recall
> > seeing people using colored signs in the past but couldn't find
> > anything relevant to this year...
>
> Is it in the NOTAM?

All you need is on this site:
http://www.airventure.org/2006/flying/#EAA%20AirVenture%202006%20NOTAM

Download the notam from the page.

The bit about the signs is under the "preflight planning"

For goodness sake, if you have never flown into OSH, or been there to see it
in action, or HAVE been there before, read all of the dang thing. It looks
like there are a few changes, this year.

Also, go out with a buddy and practice very slow flight, S turns to go
slower on approach, fast approaches, and spot landings.

Have your buddy at the last moment, tell you to fly it down to the middle of
the runway before touching down, or towards the end, or at the last minute,
tell you to change from putting it down at midfield, to on the numbers, and
try to shake you up.

Remember, listen to instructions from the controller, don't talk unless
absolutely necessary (or asked to reply), and fly the plane. Fly the
plane, fly the plane. Every couple of years, someone gets too slow on
final, and spins it in, with the usual deadly result.

And then, prepare for FUN!
--
Jim in NC

Morgans[_3_]

July 20th 06, 03:38 AM

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote
>
> I'm looking page 1 of the NOTAM right now, and I still don't see any
> mention of colours for the signs. What drugs are you on?

Try to keep up!!! <g>

That bit was supposedly on Jim Wier's site, from last year's arrival
procedures.
--
Jim in NC

Peter R.

July 20th 06, 04:10 AM

Morgans > wrote:

> No argument from me, but an observation. The controllers are good at
> getting the spacing, and it is usually at altitudes under 200 feet, when
> things get messed up, by someone not exiting the runway when they are
> supposed to, or someone not landing on the correct portion of the runway.

Jim, what day and time in your opinion is the busiest arrival period for
Oshkosh?

www.LiveATC.net has an Oshkosh feed this year and I want to be sure to
catch all the audio action.

--
Peter

Morgans[_3_]

July 20th 06, 04:28 AM

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote

> You're the one not keeping up.

> This "Blueskies" guy is
> on drugs, because he said "Yes, it's in the NOTAM on page 1" and provided
> a link to the NOTAM where it's totally obvious that there is no reference
> to coloured paper.

Yep, guilty as charged. I did miss him saying it WAS on the new notam, but
in a thread that went around and around, (quite unnecessarily) it isn't
surprising to miss something like that.

I did have a <g> in there, so please note I wasn't really on your butt.

I was one of the guys trying to read signs and send planes to where they
wanted to go, last year.

The color of a sign does not really matter. The darkness and size of the
letters (and the contrast) does matter. I'm guessing that my bosses told
the EAA that fact, so they deep six'ed the colors. Just a guess. <G>
--
Jim in NC

Morgans[_3_]

July 20th 06, 04:32 AM

"Eric Bartsch" > wrote

> Neither this text or the link to the online signs has anything about
> colors. I could definitely be missing something, but so far I'm not
> convinced that they are using anything beyond white signs with big
> block letters...

Assuming you get on the ground safely, with a sign like you describe, you'll
be fine. No worries, mate!
--
Jim in NC

Morgans[_3_]

July 20th 06, 04:51 AM

"Jack Allison" > wrote

> One hesitancy I'd have with S-turns is when on final. If things are too
> close, that's the time to plan a go around. If you're S-turning, you
> might be slowing down the guy behind you and creating more problems.
> IMHO, if I'm too close to the guy ahead of me, I'd rather go around.
> Just my 2 cents worth...

No argument from me, but an observation. The controllers are good at
getting the spacing, and it is usually at altitudes under 200 feet, when
things get messed up, by someone not exiting the runway when they are
supposed to, or someone not landing on the correct portion of the runway.

I've seen all kinds of things done, including s turns (if nobody is close
behind you, for you to mess up) and even 360's. Anything is fair game, if
the controllers tell you to do it, and if you feel capable. The go-arround
and saying unable if always a good way out.

> Bottom line, everyone arriving at OSH needs to be on their game and able
> to maintain altitude/heading/speed. If unable, land elsewhere. It's
> really not hard, anyone who considers themselves current should be able
> to do the arrival...but it's amazing to see how many folks interpret
> 1000 AGL and 90 kts differently.

Totally agree.

It is amazing to me that people with little experience, and not on their
game, think they should drop in at peak arrival times. Sometimes, it is
obvious that they have not read the notam.

I once saw someone in a taildragger RV take three times around to get it on
the ground, and even on that last time, it was forced in, and at one point,
I though for sure there was going to be a midair and a fireball.

Let's all make a wish for everyone getting there, and back home, with no
loss of life, this year. Be safe, everyone.
--
Jim in NC

Montblack[_1_]

July 20th 06, 04:58 AM

("Peter R." wrote)
> Jim, what day and time in your opinion is the busiest arrival period for
> Oshkosh?

> www.LiveATC.net has an Oshkosh feed this year and I want to be sure to
> catch all the audio action.

So much depends on weather. This year I'll be arriving (by minivan) on
Satruday so I can catch the action, and get set up for the week. Then I'll
be free to sit and enjoy - on Sunday.

I didn't see OSH on the www.LiveATC.net site, yet.

Montblack

Jack Allison[_1_]

July 20th 06, 05:16 AM

Morgans wrote:
> No argument from me, but an observation. The controllers are good at
> getting the spacing, and it is usually at altitudes under 200 feet, when
> things get messed up, by someone not exiting the runway when they are
> supposed to, or someone not landing on the correct portion of the runway.

Yes, the controllers at OSH are excellent at what they do.

> I've seen all kinds of things done, including s turns (if nobody is close
> behind you, for you to mess up) and even 360's. Anything is fair game, if
> the controllers tell you to do it, and if you feel capable. The go-arround
> and saying unable if always a good way out.

Now that I think about it, I do remember hearing a controller tell
someone on final to do a few S-turns for spacing.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Jay Honeck

July 20th 06, 05:28 AM

> "What is that idiot ahead of us doing? He's slowing down!"
> "He was told to land at the far dot, he's landing on the near dot!"
> "POWER! POWER! POWER!"
> "GO AROUND! GO AROUND!"
> (Based on a true experience!)

Yep, all kinds of fun things happen at OSH -- but they usually work out
just fine.

What Jack says is absolutely true -- you've got to be on your game.
Here are a few things I've learned over the years:

1. Do NOT arrive at RIPON at the end of a 4 hour leg. Stop short, and
arrive fresh.

2. Try to arrive mid- to late-morning. Don't be the first, don't be
the last -- and it's usually too danged hot to arrive in early
afternoon. (And don't forget the airspace is closed every afternoon
for the daily airshows!)

3. Eat a good breakfast. You will be in a high-stress, very busy
situation, and you do NOT want a blood sugar crash in the middle of it.

4. Try to hit Ripon coming in from the Southwest (for example, the
course from Iowa City is perfect), so that you don't have to make
radical turns to get in line over the railroad tracks. This will make
your life MUCH easier.

5. Be prepared to hold. They've added a new holding pattern this year,
to the usual "Rush Lake" pattern, and I suspect they'll use it.
(Although last year was actually the first time we were ever sent
around the lake. We have, however, been told many times to "hold in
place" by circling over a spot on the ground, prior to reaching Ripon.)

6. This means HAVE ENOUGH FUEL. You do NOT want to find yourself out
of fuel and ideas while holding in the busiest airspace in the world.

7. Practice holding an airspeed -- please! It's 90 KNOTS, folks, and
every year we seem to get behind someone who misinterprets the NOTAM,
and flies way too slow. And it's not just Cessa 140s and Cubs
puttering along -- last year we were stuck behind a Bonana going about
80 mph, which really backed things up.

8. Practice landing short -- and long. You might be asked to float it
down the runway -- and you might be told (not asked) to plant it on the
numbers. The runway is big, but you MUST be able to do what the
controller tells you to do, or you risk yourself and others.

9. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Do NOT talk on the radio -- only listen.
Idiots talking on the radio instantly announce their ignorance to a
*very* educated audience, and risk blocking essential ATC instructions.

None of this stuff is hard -- IF you are current and proficient. If
you have any doubts about your ability to fly the plane as described in
the NOTAM, go practice!

But DON'T land somewhere else, cuz you're intimidated by all this.
Landing at OSH is the thrill of a lifetime, and, quite frankly, coming
to OSH by landing at Fond du Lac or Appleton and riding the bus up is
like kissing your sister. It's ALMOST right, but not quite...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Morgans[_3_]

July 20th 06, 05:40 AM

"Peter R." > wrote

> Jim, what day and time in your opinion is the busiest arrival period for
> Oshkosh?
>
> www.LiveATC.net has an Oshkosh feed this year and I want to be sure to
> catch all the audio action.

Hmm, that is a good question.

I have never gotten there before Sunday before the week starts. It gets
pretty busy that afternoon, and I'll bet some people come in Saturday
afternoon and Sunday morning.

On Monday, there is a rush right after they open the field in the morning,
from people that have staged at nearby airports. It gets slow for a while,
then picks up about 11:00hrs, till around 14:00 hrs, when they are getting
ready to shut down the airspace for the airshow.

Same goes for the other days, but the volume is a little less, after that, I
think.

Around Wednesday and Thursday, right after the airshow, which is around
17:30, there is a rush as people start leaving, with departure lines
sometimes 45 minutes long (especially VFR departures) and a few are coming
in for the weekend on Friday evening and Saturday morning. Friday and
Saturday morning, there is a rush of people leaving from 07:00 till 11:00,
and also after the airshow, with sometimes big departure lines.

Depending on weather predicted to come in towards the end of the week, you
will see a bunch of people all getting the same idea, at the same time.
They have seen what they wanted to see, and don't plan to stay the whole
week, and would rather avoid the crowds. If _you_ would want to be getting
out ahead of a front, so would (and will) they. <g>

Oh, nobody has mentioned that when the field closes, at that tick of the
clock, (21:00hrs) nobody better touch their wheels down, because at that
minute, you will be violated. They will usually count it down, on the
frequency. Not one minute past!!!

You know, when it comes right down to it, it is almost always busy.
Sometimes it is REALLY busy!

What do you all think? That sound about right?
--
Jim in NC

Paul Tomblin

July 20th 06, 01:47 PM

In a previous article, "Morgans" > said:
>The color of a sign does not really matter. The darkness and size of the
>letters (and the contrast) does matter. I'm guessing that my bosses told
>the EAA that fact, so they deep six'ed the colors. Just a guess. <G>

I would think that coloured signs are a bad idea - the reduced contrast
would make them hard to read, and there is too much variation in what
people consider the right color - ie if it specifies "red", some people
are going to have an orangey-red and some are going to have a yellowey-red
and so on.

I also note that the designations that the RST signs have are not in
keeping with the NOTAM. Instead of "GAC", he says to write "N-40 Camping"
or something like that. According to NOTAM, it was "GAC" in 2003, the
last time I came, and it's "GAC" now, so did that change in the interim
and change back, or was that a mistake by the RST signs?

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Every program has two purposes -- one for which it was written and
another for which it wasn't.

Peter R.

July 20th 06, 02:26 PM

Montblack > wrote:

> be free to sit and enjoy - on Sunday.
>
> I didn't see OSH on the www.LiveATC.net site, yet.

To see it listed, for now go to the class D feeds here and scroll to it:

http://www.liveatc.net/feedindex.php?type=class-d-center

To listen to it, go here:

http://audio.liveatc.net:8012/kosh.m3u

I imagine that the feed will be placed front and center on the liveATC
homepage sometime over the next day or two.

--
Peter

john smith

July 20th 06, 03:06 PM

Who has their "wheel boards" ready?

Montblack, are you selling any at the show?

Morgans[_3_]

July 20th 06, 03:14 PM

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote

>According to NOTAM, it was "GAC" in 2003, the
> last time I came, and it's "GAC" now, so did that change in the interim
> and change back, or was that a mistake by the RST signs?

Dunno. GAC is good, because less letters mean bigger letters, means readable
from further back. The best is big BOLD letters. A fat tip black marker
and a full piece of paper, or light posterboard will be fine.
--
Jim in NC

Paul Tomblin

July 20th 06, 03:17 PM

In a previous article, john smith > said:
>Who has their "wheel boards" ready?

Oh damn, I forgot to check the line shed to see if they're still there.
And the tie downs. Since I'll be the first club plane to leave, I think
I've got a good chance of getting them.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Just another organic pain collector racing to oblivion

Montblack[_1_]

July 20th 06, 04:02 PM

("john smith" wrote)
> Who has their "wheel boards" ready?
>
> Montblack, are you selling any at the show?

Yes ...and no. I made 10 sets of 3, or 15 sets of 2 <g>

3/4 inch plywood (16" x 12")

A flat 2x3 (cut 30°) is screwed, from underneath, to one end - as a chock.

I'll scrounge up some loose boards for backside chocking tonight.

10 of them have no chock board screwed on - just in case (?)

FREE. Keep em, or leave em behind. They were a scrap theater set.

They might (or might not) get primer'd today :-)

I did them up months ago ...then forgot they were in the garage. Thus, no
paint,
yet.

If 16" isn't enough, next year they'll get cut ...longer.

Contact me if you want a set. We'll get them to you.
7 sets (of 3) are not spoken for.

Give me your name and N-Number
Type of plane and color.
Your Cell number. I'll give you mine, etc.
Day to expect you.

Then your location on the field - when you arrive.

Montblack
a t (vi s i)
no 4's or Y's

john smith

July 20th 06, 04:32 PM

In article >,
"Montblack" > wrote:

> > Montblack, are you selling any at the show?

> Yes ...and no. I made 10 sets of 3, or 15 sets of 2 <g>
> FREE. Keep em, or leave em behind. They were a scrap theater set.
> They might (or might not) get primer'd today :-)
> Contact me if you want a set. We'll get them to you.
> 7 sets (of 3) are not spoken for.
> Give me your name and N-Number
> Type of plane and color.
> Your Cell number. I'll give you mine, etc.
> Day to expect you.
> Then your location on the field - when you arrive.

Is this guy good, or what?
I certainly hope anyone who partakes of a set delivers just compensation!

RST Engineering

July 20th 06, 05:47 PM

Oh, for corn sakes, folks. RST started the "Oshkosh Bound" posters in 1974,
long before EAA had a glimmer that they'd need some way of finding out where
you want to park, while "plastic" was still a dirty word to Burt Rutan, Paul
was Pope, and I had brown hair. Sheesh. And the personal computer was a
workbench full of little bits and pieces you soldered together yourself.

We PRINTED them until the pc became so pervasive and the internet so easy to
use that we posted them as files for YOU to print starting about ten years
ago. One year we mailed (MAILED, mind you) over 3000 of them out. I still
have an aversion to post office glue (WAY before self-adhesive stamps) in my
brain over that one.

We picked light blue and goldenrod because those were the two EAA colors.
We just stuck with them over the years. If you don't like the way we do
parking signs, by all means do your own. You want white? Fine, print
white. You want the traditional colors? Fine, have it your way -- color is
YOUR choice, isn't it. The color choice was OUR way of doing things 20
years prior to EAA even thinking about it.

However, now that the EAA has sort of settled down on its choice of abbrvtns
(why the hell is a word meaning "make shorter" so long?) for parking --
which have changed almost every year since they instituted THEIR way of
doing things -- so that the "Oshkosh Bound" will be duplicated on one side
of the printed sheet, then you turn the sheet over in the printer and we
will use the standard EAA abbrvtns on the obverse in very large typeface.

Talk about mountains out of molehills. Sheesh.

Oh, and by the way, black print on goldenrod is by far more visible than
black on white ... that's one of the things you learn at politician school.
Red on white is best followed by black on goldenrod ... just fyi.

Jim

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article m>,
> "Eric Bartsch" > wrote:
>
>> I've looked on the airventure site again and I still find no mention of
>> using colors for the signs. Can anyone who thinks colors should be
>> used, send a reference to where those instructions come from? I recall
>> seeing people using colored signs in the past but couldn't find
>> anything relevant to this year...
>
> Is it in the NOTAM?

Montblack[_1_]

July 20th 06, 06:52 PM

("john smith" wrote)
> I certainly hope anyone who partakes of a set delivers just compensation!

Just com-en-get-em.

If (when) you do leave the clunkers behind, put them by a shower building or
the road, etc. I'll write "FREE Please take!" ...on the bottoms.

Contact me if you want a set. We'll get them to you.
7 sets (of 3) are not spoken for.

Give me your name and N-Number
Type of plane and color.
Your Cell number. I'll give you mine, etc.
Day to expect you.

Then your location on the field - when you arrive.

Montblack
a t (vi s i)
no 4's or Y's

UltraJohn

July 21st 06, 02:48 AM

Jay Honeck wrote:

> the NOTAM, go practice!
>
> But DON'T land somewhere else, cuz you're intimidated by all this.
> Landing at OSH is the thrill of a lifetime, and, quite frankly, coming
> to OSH by landing at Fond du Lac or Appleton and riding the bus up is
> like kissing your sister. It's ALMOST right, but not quite...
>
> :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

I dunno kissing your sister might not be too bad, what does she look like
and how does she kiss? ;-)
(running and ducking)
John

John T[_1_]

July 21st 06, 02:58 AM

Montblack,
What gate and what time do you usually try to get your vehicle on the
north 40 for the party prep? I might be able to help you out.
Drop me an email on this.

[email protected]

July 21st 06, 05:07 AM

For those asking about when it will be busy, watch out for Saturday
afternoon, that is the scheduled arrival of all the various mass fly-in
groups.

See you on the North 40!

Ryan Wubben
Co-Chair, Flight Line Ops (the orange shirts)

Montblack[_1_]

July 21st 06, 07:52 AM

wrote)
> See you on the North 40!
>
> Ryan Wubben
> Co-Chair, Flight Line Ops (the orange shirts)

Getting vehicle gate passes for Wednesday:
When we drove over, in June, for the Weekend Work Party, "XYZ" (in Security)
told me who to contact Saturday morning, when I arrive, just in case "XYZ"
isn't there in person.

Thank you for all of your help in past years. HOPEFULLY this year will be
our smoothest yet.

Montblack

Dave Butler[_1_]

July 21st 06, 03:16 PM

Jay Honeck wrote:

> But DON'T land somewhere else, cuz you're intimidated by all this.
> Landing at OSH is the thrill of a lifetime, and, quite frankly, coming
> to OSH by landing at Fond du Lac or Appleton and riding the bus up is
> like kissing your sister. It's ALMOST right, but not quite...

The one time I missed the airport closing for the air show by just a couple of
minutes and had to divert to Appleton, it was a horrorshow. The NFCT at Appleton
was incompetent, the bus schedule allowed for a lot of waiting around, you have
to schlep your luggage around from bus to bus. I was staying in the dorm, so bus
from Appleton to OSH, then bus from OSH bus terminal to airport terminal
building, then bus from terminal building to the dorms.

If that ever happens again, I'll just stage myself at a nearby airport and wait
for OSH to reopen. I'll get there before the person who diverts to Appleton and
takes the bus(es).

RST Engineering

July 21st 06, 04:35 PM

I'll add it to the list. Thanks. I'm sort of interested in how these
frequencies, listed in the FAA regs as air traffic control frequencies, get
assigned to these folks. You don't imagine that they just use them without
benefit of license, do you?

Jim

"Paul Dow (Remove Caps in mail address)" > wrote in
message news:ks6wg.79461$ZW3.65105@dukeread04...
> For those people interested in the frequencies, an addition to Jim's list
> is 133.85 which was used by the Warbirds Airboss last year.

Tom McQuinn

July 21st 06, 06:39 PM

Dave Butler wrote:
>
> The one time I missed the airport closing for the air show by just a
> couple of minutes and had to divert to Appleton, it was a horrorshow.
> The NFCT at Appleton was incompetent, the bus schedule allowed for a lot
> of waiting around, you have to schlep your luggage around from bus to
> bus. I was staying in the dorm, so bus from Appleton to OSH, then bus
> from OSH bus terminal to airport terminal building, then bus from
> terminal building to the dorms.
>
> If that ever happens again, I'll just stage myself at a nearby airport
> and wait for OSH to reopen. I'll get there before the person who diverts
> to Appleton and takes the bus(es).

I'm not sure as many people will be flying this year, but in 2003 I got
there late and the airport was closed for the air show. We were tired
and camped at Fond du Loc for the night. Sure enough, after the air
show they filled up completely. The next day we packed up and headed
for OSH only to have to come right back to Fond du Loc, for good this time.

I don't know if they ever did fill up in 2003 and 2004 or not.

Tom

Paul Dow (Remove Caps in mail address)

July 21st 06, 07:37 PM

It looks like the Government is on top of things.
http://www.faa.gov/ats/aaf/asr/library/docs/Plan_R16.PDF is titled
"Radio Spectrum Plan 2001-2010"
Page 14 mentions that Oshkosh has 10 frequency assignments, and Lakeland
has 5. I didn't see how they get assigned to smaller shows though.

Paul

RST Engineering wrote:
> I'll add it to the list. Thanks. I'm sort of interested in how these
> frequencies, listed in the FAA regs as air traffic control frequencies, get
> assigned to these folks. You don't imagine that they just use them without
> benefit of license, do you?
>
> Jim
>

Morgans[_3_]

July 21st 06, 08:17 PM

"Tom McQuinn" > wrote

> I'm not sure as many people will be flying this year, but in 2003 I got
> there late and the airport was closed for the air show. We were tired
> and camped at Fond du Loc for the night. Sure enough, after the air
> show they filled up completely. The next day we packed up and headed
> for OSH only to have to come right back to Fond du Loc, for good this
time.

What day did you try to get in to OSH?
--
Jim in NC

Tom McQuinn

July 22nd 06, 11:50 AM

Morgans wrote:
>
> "Tom McQuinn" > wrote
>
>> I'm not sure as many people will be flying this year, but in 2003 I got
>> there late and the airport was closed for the air show. We were tired
>> and camped at Fond du Loc for the night. Sure enough, after the air
>> show they filled up completely. The next day we packed up and headed
>> for OSH only to have to come right back to Fond du Loc, for good this
> time.
>
> What day did you try to get in to OSH?

I believe it was Tuesday. I seem to remember that either the paper you
get on the field or the EAA magazine had an article and a picture of the
last guy to get in and camp. Last year we went on the Sunday before the
official opening, which worked out well. Hoping to do the same this
year. Today is my pack it up and weigh it day!

Tom