how to get NACO online charts conveniently?

[Dave Butler]

It's great that the charts are now "free" online at http://www.naco.faa.gov/ but
it seems to take a lot of my personal time to figure out which charts I need.

I used to just carry the paper charts with the knowledge that if I had to
divert, I had all the charts for all nearby airports.

How do you use the free online charts and retain the convenience of not having
to painstakingly select and print individual charts?

Have I traded away the convenience in return for not having to pay, or is there
a better way?

Thanks,

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

[Roy Smith]

Dave Butler > wrote:
> I used to just carry the paper charts with the knowledge that if I had to
> divert, I had all the charts for all nearby airports.
>
> How do you use the free online charts and retain the convenience of not
> having to painstakingly select and print individual charts?

I print charts for my destination and alternate(s). Especially for
alternates, I don't bother printing everything, just the approaches I
think I might actually use (i.e. the ILS).

I still carry an approach plate book, but just aren't fastidious about
keeping it up to date.

I have the luxury of flying behind a GPS which has a full approach
database. If I had to emergency divert to some place for which I don't
have a paper plate, I can fly the approach right out of the database.
About the only piece of information that's not in the database is the
MDA/DH. For emergency purposes, I can always ask the controller. If
I'm lost comm, I'll assume the DH on an ILS is 200 AGL.

I do admit that the process of finding and printing plates could be
easier, but that's a SMOP (Simple Matter Of Programming). I could see a
flight planner showing you which airports along your route meet criteria
you specify (runway length, approach type, services, etc) and give you
an easy way to tick off which plates you want, then taking the
individual PDFs and building a single composite PDF in booklet form that
you can print with a single command.

[[email protected]]

Dave Butler wrote:

> How do you use the free online charts and retain the convenience of not having
> to painstakingly select and print individual charts?
>
> Have I traded away the convenience in return for not having to pay, or is there
> a better way?

You broke the code.

You can subscribe to the NACO electronic charts on DVD from Sporty's. Still a
pretty good deal, then you have them all on your PC.

[Andrew Gideon]

wrote:

> You can subscribe to the NACO electronic charts on DVD from Sporty's.
> Still a pretty good deal, then you have them all on your PC.


Hmm. What format, and are these both en route and approach?

[Of course, printing en route charts...]

I get a little apprehensive when I think about flying with a limited set of
charts (ie. only those for my destination, alternate, and starting point).
What if I need to put down IFR somewhere unexpected?

I also become appehensive when I consider relying upon an electronic DB of
charts. Power problems, MSFT Blue Screen of Death (or the equiv. for some
other OS), accidentally dropping the thing...

Others are obviously solving these concerns to their satisfaction. How?

- Andrew

[Tom Sixkiller]

> wrote in message ...
>
>
> Dave Butler wrote:
>
> > How do you use the free online charts and retain the convenience of not
having
> > to painstakingly select and print individual charts?
> >
> > Have I traded away the convenience in return for not having to pay, or
is there
> > a better way?
>
> You broke the code.
>
> You can subscribe to the NACO electronic charts on DVD from Sporty's.
Still a
> pretty good deal, then you have them all on your PC.

Or from MyAirplane.com (which is a couple bucks cheaper when you factor in
shipping).

[[email protected]]

Andrew Gideon wrote:

> wrote:
>
> > You can subscribe to the NACO electronic charts on DVD from Sporty's.
> > Still a pretty good deal, then you have them all on your PC.
>
> Hmm. What format, and are these both en route and approach?
>
> [Of course, printing en route charts...]

You have to subscribe to the paper en route charts, also available from
Sporty's.

>
>
> I get a little apprehensive when I think about flying with a limited set of
> charts (ie. only those for my destination, alternate, and starting point).
> What if I need to put down IFR somewhere unexpected?

I guess that depends upon how well you select the charts to print out before
you leave home.

>
>
> I also become appehensive when I consider relying upon an electronic DB of
> charts. Power problems, MSFT Blue Screen of Death (or the equiv. for some
> other OS), accidentally dropping the thing...
>
> Others are obviously solving these concerns to their satisfaction. How?
>
> - Andrew

I can't speak for others, only myself. I always have my laptop with me, and I
have a clunky portable printer. But, I would only use the printer on the
ground. I guess I overprint charts to CMA. With a laser printer at home that
is no big deal.

Obviously, if you're flying serious IFR "all over the place" and "all the
time," then you either need reams of paper charts or a certified tablet PC
(read: expensive)

[[email protected]]

Roy Smith wrote:

> I have the luxury of flying behind a GPS which has a full approach
> database. If I had to emergency divert to some place for which I don't
> have a paper plate, I can fly the approach right out of the database.
> About the only piece of information that's not in the database is the
> MDA/DH. For emergency purposes, I can always ask the controller. If
> I'm lost comm, I'll assume the DH on an ILS is 200 AGL.
>

Your GPS has altitudes for all the segments and stepdown fixes on an approach?
What GPS is that?

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:29:39 -0400, Dave Butler wrote:

> It's great that the charts are now "free" online at http://www.naco.faa.gov/ but
> it seems to take a lot of my personal time to figure out which charts I need.

I've looked and I do not see free downloadable charts there. I see some
TPP's and diagrams, but I do not for example see any charts you can
actually download. I see links where I can buy a DVD from them, but
that's all.

Do me a favor and paste a link to a chart so I can at least get in the
ballpark. I don't know how I'm overlooking it, other than the fact it's a
typical govt. site with nothing straightforwards.

[[email protected]]

"Matthew P. Cummings" wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:29:39 -0400, Dave Butler wrote:
>
> > It's great that the charts are now "free" online at http://www.naco.faa.gov/ but
> > it seems to take a lot of my personal time to figure out which charts I need.
>
> I've looked and I do not see free downloadable charts there. I see some
> TPP's and diagrams, but I do not for example see any charts you can
> actually download. I see links where I can buy a DVD from them, but
> that's all.
>
> Do me a favor and paste a link to a chart so I can at least get in the
> ballpark. I don't know how I'm overlooking it, other than the fact it's a
> typical govt. site with nothing straightforwards.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp

[Blanche]

What's interesting about the NACO charts is the list of airports
for Colorado. Buckley AFB is listed and no one except military
is allowed to land there. People have called with emergencies and
told that Aurora airpark (about to close) is 4.5 nm away, and
FTG is 11 nm away.

And yet FTG (Front Range), allegedly a reliever for DEN and
only 7 nm from DEN, isn't on the list.

odd.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> What's interesting about the NACO charts is the list of airports
> for Colorado. Buckley AFB is listed and no one except military
> is allowed to land there. People have called with emergencies and
> told that Aurora airpark (about to close) is 4.5 nm away, and
> FTG is 11 nm away.
>
> And yet FTG (Front Range), allegedly a reliever for DEN and
> only 7 nm from DEN, isn't on the list.
>
> odd.

Yes it is.

[Blanche]

Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
>
>"Blanche" > wrote in message
>> And yet FTG (Front Range), allegedly a reliever for DEN and
>> only 7 nm from DEN, isn't on the list.
>
>Yes it is.

I couldn't find it. At the link

www.naco.faa.gov/ap_diagrams.asp

and selecting the Colorado state, the following airports are
displayed:

ASE - ASPEN PITKIN COUNTY-SARDY FIELD, CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
KBKF - BUCKLEY AFB, CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
APA - CENTENNIAL , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
COS - CITY OF COLORADO SPRINGS MUNI , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
DEN - DENVER INTL , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
BJC - JEFFCO , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
PUB - PUEBLO MEMORIAL , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
GJT - WALKER FIELD , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF

When I searched for the FTG airport ID,

"No records found"

Where'd you find it?

[Brad Z]

Are you looking for approach plates or airport diagrams? FTG has no
published airport diagram.

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
> >
> >"Blanche" > wrote in message
> >> And yet FTG (Front Range), allegedly a reliever for DEN and
> >> only 7 nm from DEN, isn't on the list.
> >
> >Yes it is.
>
> I couldn't find it. At the link
>
> www.naco.faa.gov/ap_diagrams.asp
>
> and selecting the Colorado state, the following airports are
> displayed:
>
> ASE - ASPEN PITKIN COUNTY-SARDY FIELD, CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
> KBKF - BUCKLEY AFB, CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
> APA - CENTENNIAL , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
> COS - CITY OF COLORADO SPRINGS MUNI , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
> DEN - DENVER INTL , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
> BJC - JEFFCO , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
> PUB - PUEBLO MEMORIAL , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
> GJT - WALKER FIELD , CO . . . . . . . . . . PDF
>
> When I searched for the FTG airport ID,
>
> "No records found"
>
> Where'd you find it?
>

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
> >
> >"Blanche" > wrote in message
> >> And yet FTG (Front Range), allegedly a reliever for DEN and
> >> only 7 nm from DEN, isn't on the list.
> >
> >Yes it is.
>
> I couldn't find it. At the link
>
> www.naco.faa.gov/ap_diagrams.asp
>
> "No records found"
>
> Where'd you find it?

http://www.naco.faa.gov/digital_tpp_search.asp?ver=0404&eff=4-15-2004&end=5-13-2004&fldIdent=ftg&fld_ident_type=FAA&st=&fldAPName=&fldVol=&submit1=Search

Whoops...you're looking for the AP diagram...that one that's not published.

I don't think Front Range is considered a reliever for DEN...that would be
Centennial or Jeffco.

Tom

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Brad Z" > wrote in message
news:bfRyc.37239$HG.21720@attbi_s53...
> Are you looking for approach plates or airport diagrams? FTG has no
> published airport diagram.

Yeah...I missed that from her firs request. I got stuck on AP's.

Diagrams are only published (near as I can tell ) for the bigger, more
complex layouts. That's definitely NOT FTG and it makes no difference how
close it is to DEN.

There's a mini on on the AP but it doesn't help much.

Hell, 00V (Meadow Lake) near COS is bigger, handles more traffic and doesn't
even rate an instrument approach :~(

> > "No records found"
> >
> > Where'd you find it?

[Dave S]

I have noticed that the approach diagrams tend to be published for
towered fields, and not for untowered fields.

That is one of the reasons that I still use the Jepp product, it has a
full size layout for every airport with an approach to it.

Dave

Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> "Brad Z" > wrote in message
> news:bfRyc.37239$HG.21720@attbi_s53...
>
>>Are you looking for approach plates or airport diagrams? FTG has no
>>published airport diagram.
>
>
> Yeah...I missed that from her firs request. I got stuck on AP's.
>
> Diagrams are only published (near as I can tell ) for the bigger, more
> complex layouts. That's definitely NOT FTG and it makes no difference how
> close it is to DEN.
>
> There's a mini on on the AP but it doesn't help much.
>
> Hell, 00V (Meadow Lake) near COS is bigger, handles more traffic and doesn't
> even rate an instrument approach :~(
>
>
>>>"No records found"
>>>
>>>Where'd you find it?
>
>
>

[Clyde Campbell]

Anybody figured out how to do a batch download of an entire state yet?

[[email protected]]

Dave S wrote:

> I have noticed that the approach diagrams tend to be published for
> towered fields, and not for untowered fields.
>
> That is one of the reasons that I still use the Jepp product, it has a
> full size layout for every airport with an approach to it.

Now that NACO charts are in vector graphics you can crop the little airport
diagram for airports that don't have a full-page airport diagram, and print that
cropped diagram out full page, and at full resolution.

[Tom Sixkiller]

> wrote in message ...
>
>
> Dave S wrote:
>
> > I have noticed that the approach diagrams tend to be published for
> > towered fields, and not for untowered fields.
> >
> > That is one of the reasons that I still use the Jepp product, it has a
> > full size layout for every airport with an approach to it.
>
> Now that NACO charts are in vector graphics you can crop the little
airport
> diagram for airports that don't have a full-page airport diagram, and
print that
> cropped diagram out full page, and at full resolution.

Unfortunately, those mini-diagrams don't have taxiway data or building
layouts.

[Kyler Laird]

(Clyde Campbell) writes:

>Anybody figured out how to do a batch download of an entire state yet?

http://aviationtoolbox.org/munge/plates_by_state/

Don't depend on them being updated...yet.

--kyler

[[email protected]]

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

> > wrote in message ...
> >
> >
> > Dave S wrote:
> >
> > > I have noticed that the approach diagrams tend to be published for
> > > towered fields, and not for untowered fields.
> > >
> > > That is one of the reasons that I still use the Jepp product, it has a
> > > full size layout for every airport with an approach to it.
> >
> > Now that NACO charts are in vector graphics you can crop the little
> airport
> > diagram for airports that don't have a full-page airport diagram, and
> print that
> > cropped diagram out full page, and at full resolution.
>
> Unfortunately, those mini-diagrams don't have taxiway data or building
> layouts.

You need to look closer. They have taxiways and ramps, although they don't
have buildings.

[Sandy Mustard]

Beginning with the April 15, 2004, chart cycle, Sporty’s Pilot Shop will
offer FAA Terminal Procedures Publications digitally on one DVD.
Contains all Instrument Approach Procedures for the United States
including Alaska, Hawaii, the Pacific Territories, Puerto Rico and the
U.S. Virgin Islands. Includes approaches, take-off minimums, arrival &
departure procedures, and airport diagrams.

They are NACO charts.

Sandy Mustard

Andrew Gideon wrote:
> wrote:
>
>
>>You can subscribe to the NACO electronic charts on DVD from Sporty's.
>>Still a pretty good deal, then you have them all on your PC.
>
>
>
> Hmm. What format, and are these both en route and approach?
>
> [Of course, printing en route charts...]
>
> I get a little apprehensive when I think about flying with a limited set of
> charts (ie. only those for my destination, alternate, and starting point).
> What if I need to put down IFR somewhere unexpected?
>
> I also become appehensive when I consider relying upon an electronic DB of
> charts. Power problems, MSFT Blue Screen of Death (or the equiv. for some
> other OS), accidentally dropping the thing...
>
> Others are obviously solving these concerns to their satisfaction. How?
>
> - Andrew
>

[Tom Sixkiller]

> wrote in message ...
>
>
> Tom Sixkiller wrote:
>

> >
> > Unfortunately, those mini-diagrams don't have taxiway data or building
> > layouts.
>
> You need to look closer. They have taxiways and ramps, although they
don't
> have buildings.

Some of the larger ones perhaps, but one place I go (EFC) it only shows the
runway and general shape of the ramp...and that's actually sorta inaccurate.
What I like with a full AD is being able to find a taxi way when the ground
controller tells me where to go...literally.

[[email protected]]

Clyde Campbell wrote:

> Anybody figured out how to do a batch download of an entire state yet?

Aeroplanner has a search function by state or by radius from an airport.

[[email protected]]

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

> > wrote in message ...
> >
> >
> > Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, those mini-diagrams don't have taxiway data or building
> > > layouts.
> >
> > You need to look closer. They have taxiways and ramps, although they
> don't
> > have buildings.
>
> Some of the larger ones perhaps, but one place I go (EFC) it only shows the
> runway and general shape of the ramp...and that's actually sorta inaccurate.
> What I like with a full AD is being able to find a taxi way when the ground
> controller tells me where to go...literally.

Jeppesen shows exactly the same airport layout for EFC as does NACO. There
isn't any taxiway.

[Stan Gosnell]

wrote in :

> You need to look closer. They have taxiways and ramps,
> although they don't have buildings.

Not the ones I've seen, admittedly not that many. KGLS,
Galveston, TX, shows almost no detail, no taxiways, no ramp, no
nothing, and there is a lot here. Jepp shows it all. The NACO
chart also shows runway 8/26, which has been closed for over 20
years, and can no longer even be seen.

--
Regards,

Stan

[Matt Whiting]

Dave S wrote:

> I have noticed that the approach diagrams tend to be published for
> towered fields, and not for untowered fields.
>
> That is one of the reasons that I still use the Jepp product, it has a
> full size layout for every airport with an approach to it.

Not many non-tower fields have runway and taxi way layouts that are all
that complicated. I'm sure there's one somewhere in the US, but I
haven't come across it yet.


Matt

[[email protected]]

Stan Gosnell wrote:

> wrote in :
>
> > You need to look closer. They have taxiways and ramps,
> > although they don't have buildings.
>
> Not the ones I've seen, admittedly not that many. KGLS,
> Galveston, TX, shows almost no detail, no taxiways, no ramp, no
> nothing, and there is a lot here. Jepp shows it all. The NACO
> chart also shows runway 8/26, which has been closed for over 20
> years, and can no longer even be seen.
>

Perhaps it is a transition sort of thing, but the ones I've compared are
quite similar to the Jepps, except no buildings.

[[email protected]]

Stan Gosnell wrote:

> wrote in :
>
> > You need to look closer. They have taxiways and ramps,
> > although they don't have buildings.
>
> Not the ones I've seen, admittedly not that many. KGLS,
> Galveston, TX, shows almost no detail, no taxiways, no ramp, no
> nothing, and there is a lot here. Jepp shows it all. The NACO
> chart also shows runway 8/26, which has been closed for over 20
> years, and can no longer even be seen.
>

After I posted my reply I pulled up the NACO PDF for GLS ILS 13? and see
all kinds of taxiways, etc.

[Roy Smith]

Matt Whiting > wrote:
> Not many non-tower fields have runway and taxi way layouts that are all
> that complicated. I'm sure there's one somewhere in the US, but I
> haven't come across it yet.

The most complicated non-towered field I know if is HTO
(http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/05016VDRG10.PDF).
Three runways, and the main runway parallel taxiway doesn't go the whole
length. At night, it's easy to get confused as to where you're going.
DAMHIKT :-)

Non-towered airports with more than one runway make me uncomfortable.
Make it three runways, with two of them doubling as taxiways, and it
becomes downright scary.

[Roy Smith]

In article >, wrote:

> Stan Gosnell wrote:
>
> > wrote in :
> >
> > > You need to look closer. They have taxiways and ramps,
> > > although they don't have buildings.
> >
> > Not the ones I've seen, admittedly not that many. KGLS,
> > Galveston, TX, shows almost no detail, no taxiways, no ramp, no
> > nothing, and there is a lot here. Jepp shows it all. The NACO
> > chart also shows runway 8/26, which has been closed for over 20
> > years, and can no longer even be seen.
> >
>
> After I posted my reply I pulled up the NACO PDF for GLS ILS 13? and see
> all kinds of taxiways, etc.

Not to mention (if I counted right) 13 DP's and 7 STAR's!

[[email protected]]

Roy Smith wrote:

> In article >, wrote:
>
> > Stan Gosnell wrote:
> >
> > > wrote in :
> > >
> > > > You need to look closer. They have taxiways and ramps,
> > > > although they don't have buildings.
> > >
> > > Not the ones I've seen, admittedly not that many. KGLS,
> > > Galveston, TX, shows almost no detail, no taxiways, no ramp, no
> > > nothing, and there is a lot here. Jepp shows it all. The NACO
> > > chart also shows runway 8/26, which has been closed for over 20
> > > years, and can no longer even be seen.
> > >
> >
> > After I posted my reply I pulled up the NACO PDF for GLS ILS 13? and see
> > all kinds of taxiways, etc.
>
> Not to mention (if I counted right) 13 DP's and 7 STAR's!

Crazy, ain't it! I expected to see a NACO airport diagram PDF with all that
other stuff.

[Matt Whiting]

Roy Smith wrote:
> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>>Not many non-tower fields have runway and taxi way layouts that are all
>>that complicated. I'm sure there's one somewhere in the US, but I
>>haven't come across it yet.
>
>
> The most complicated non-towered field I know if is HTO
> (http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/05016VDRG10.PDF).
> Three runways, and the main runway parallel taxiway doesn't go the whole
> length. At night, it's easy to get confused as to where you're going.
> DAMHIKT :-)
>
> Non-towered airports with more than one runway make me uncomfortable.
> Make it three runways, with two of them doubling as taxiways, and it
> becomes downright scary.

Where's your sense of adventure, Roy! :-)

Matt

[Stan Gosnell]

wrote in :

> After I posted my reply I pulled up the NACO PDF for GLS
> ILS 13? and see all kinds of taxiways, etc.
>
The ILS 13 I pulled off the referenced site shows no taxiways at
all. I'm not talking about the airport diagram, but the mini
diagram on the approach plate, which was what you suggested
would be sufficient, IIRC. The approach plate I have, Amdt 10A,
shows no taxiways in the airport diagram block. Maybe we're
talking about different things.

--
Regards,

Stan

[Stan Gosnell]

Roy Smith > wrote in
:

> Not to mention (if I counted right) 13 DP's and 7 STAR's!

Those are for the Houston area, with both HOU, IAH, EFD, and
lots of smaller airports around. I've never been given any of
those in all the years I've been flying out of here. I don't
fly big iron at flight levels.

--
Regards,

Stan

[[email protected]]

Stan Gosnell wrote:

> wrote in :
>
> > After I posted my reply I pulled up the NACO PDF for GLS
> > ILS 13? and see all kinds of taxiways, etc.
> >
> The ILS 13 I pulled off the referenced site shows no taxiways at
> all. I'm not talking about the airport diagram, but the mini
> diagram on the approach plate, which was what you suggested
> would be sufficient, IIRC. The approach plate I have, Amdt 10A,
> shows no taxiways in the airport diagram block. Maybe we're
> talking about different things.
>

Hmmmm....well I've pasted both Jepp's and NACO's airport diagrams in a
JPEG on alt.binaries.pictures.aviation called "Airport Diagrams." The
taxiways on the NACO chart (little airport diagram on Amendment 10A KGLS
ILS or LOC 13, from June 10 load on NACO web site).

[Tom Sixkiller]

> wrote in message ...
>
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, those mini-diagrams don't have taxiway data or
building
> > > > layouts.
> > >
> > > You need to look closer. They have taxiways and ramps, although they
> > don't
> > > have buildings.
> >
> > Some of the larger ones perhaps, but one place I go (EFC) it only shows
the
> > runway and general shape of the ramp...and that's actually sorta
inaccurate.
> > What I like with a full AD is being able to find a taxi way when the
ground
> > controller tells me where to go...literally.
>
> Jeppesen shows exactly the same airport layout for EFC as does NACO.
There
> isn't any taxiway.

Yes. And this is of interest...why? The topic is the lack of AD's on certain
airports and the fact that the mini-diagrams are not very detailed. So...

[[email protected]]

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

> > wrote in message ...
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunately, those mini-diagrams don't have taxiway data or
> building
> > > > > layouts.
> > > >
> > > > You need to look closer. They have taxiways and ramps, although they
> > > don't
> > > > have buildings.
> > >
> > > Some of the larger ones perhaps, but one place I go (EFC) it only shows
> the
> > > runway and general shape of the ramp...and that's actually sorta
> inaccurate.
> > > What I like with a full AD is being able to find a taxi way when the
> ground
> > > controller tells me where to go...literally.
> >
> > Jeppesen shows exactly the same airport layout for EFC as does NACO.
> There
> > isn't any taxiway.
>
> Yes. And this is of interest...why? The topic is the lack of AD's on certain
> airports and the fact that the mini-diagrams are not very detailed. So...

The topic is "How to Get NACO online charts conveniently, then it digressed to
someone not wanting to give up Jepps for NACO because of Jepp's airport
diagrams. What's an "AD?"

[Dave Butler]

wrote:

> The topic is "How to Get NACO online charts conveniently, then it digressed to
> someone not wanting to give up Jepps for NACO because of Jepp's airport
> diagrams. What's an "AD?"
>

airport diagram would be my guess.

[[email protected]]

Dave Butler wrote:

> wrote:
>
> > The topic is "How to Get NACO online charts conveniently, then it digressed to
> > someone not wanting to give up Jepps for NACO because of Jepp's airport
> > diagrams. What's an "AD?"
> >
>
> airport diagram would be my guess.

I guess that was too obvious. ;-)

So, where an airport has a tower, thus probably a ground controller, NACO seems to
have those covered with full page "ADs." At a non-tower airport that doesn't have a
full page NACO "AD" I can easily make one with Acrobat cropping of the NACO vector
graphics.

[Matt Whiting]

Stan Gosnell wrote:

> Roy Smith > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Not to mention (if I counted right) 13 DP's and 7 STAR's!
>
>
> Those are for the Houston area, with both HOU, IAH, EFD, and
> lots of smaller airports around. I've never been given any of
> those in all the years I've been flying out of here. I don't
> fly big iron at flight levels.
>

I think I've only had one SID assigned ever and that was out of PHL. I
don't remember all of the details, but I remember after copying and
reading back the clearance I was thinking that this was going to be a
real hassle figuring out this SID and then flying it. Turns out the SID
was eseentially "fly runway heading and expect vectors to on course
fix." Made me wonder why they bothered with the SID, but it sure was
easy to fly! :-)


Matt

[Peter R.]

Matt Whiting ) wrote:

> I think I've only had one SID assigned ever and that was out of PHL. I
> don't remember all of the details, but I remember after copying and
> reading back the clearance I was thinking that this was going to be a
> real hassle figuring out this SID and then flying it. Turns out the SID
> was eseentially "fly runway heading and expect vectors to on course
> fix." Made me wonder why they bothered with the SID, but it sure was
> easy to fly! :-)

When clearance delivery includes a departure procedure, remember that you
will most likely get the departure frequency there, rather than from the
controller, too.

I recall the first time I received a DP, which was out of Teterboro (New
Jersey, US), the controller gave me the clearance but did not include the
departure frequency, or so I thought. I called back for the frequency and
the controller tersely stated that it was included in the DP.



--
Peter














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