Student practices landing with gear up

[steve[_1_]]

Bummer,

I had the Arrow reserved with the flight center I use, for next week and for
a couple of days in August.

They just sent me an email stating that a student pilot from the flight
center they share it with, landed it with the gear up. How embarrassing,
especially since the plane has an automatic gear down deployment once it
drops below 100mph and the manifold and rpm resemble a landing
configuration. He/she must have shut it off. It has a loud alarm that sounds
off in that situation, so I don't know what might have happened..

--
Thanks,

Steve

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

[Flyingmonk[_1_]]

steve wrote:
> Bummer,
>
> I had the Arrow reserved with the flight center I use, for next week and for
> a couple of days in August.
>
> They just sent me an email stating that a student pilot from the flight
> center they share it with, landed it with the gear up. How embarrassing,
> especially since the plane has an automatic gear down deployment once it
> drops below 100mph and the manifold and rpm resemble a landing
> configuration. He/she must have shut it off. It has a loud alarm that sounds
> off in that situation, so I don't know what might have happened..
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
> with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
> you will always long to return"
> - Leonardo Da Vinci

I think the statement(I can't remember who said it first) goes
something like this, "First rule of thumb when designing fool proof
<anything> is never to underestimate a fool."

Monk

[BTIZ]

I thought that auto extend feature had been disabled by a SB on most
Arrows.. maybe only the older ones..
BT

"steve" > wrote in message
. ..
> Bummer,
>
> I had the Arrow reserved with the flight center I use, for next week and
> for a couple of days in August.
>
> They just sent me an email stating that a student pilot from the flight
> center they share it with, landed it with the gear up. How embarrassing,
> especially since the plane has an automatic gear down deployment once it
> drops below 100mph and the manifold and rpm resemble a landing
> configuration. He/she must have shut it off. It has a loud alarm that
> sounds off in that situation, so I don't know what might have happened..
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
> with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
> you will always long to return"
> - Leonardo Da Vinci
>
>

[Robert M. Gary]

BTIZ wrote:
> I thought that auto extend feature had been disabled by a SB on most
> Arrows.. maybe only the older ones..
> BT


Isn't that the one that had the battle of the SBs? SB says disable it,
SB says reenable it, SB says disable it etc?

[Peter Duniho]

"steve" > wrote in message
. ..
> They just sent me an email stating that a student pilot from the flight
> center they share it with, landed it with the gear up. How embarrassing,
> especially since the plane has an automatic gear down deployment once it
> drops below 100mph and the manifold and rpm resemble a landing
> configuration. He/she must have shut it off. It has a loud alarm that
> sounds off in that situation, so I don't know what might have happened..

Depending on what else he was doing with the airplane that flight, it might
not be surprising for the automatic deployment to be disabled temporarily
(I'm assuming that since you're familiar with the airplane, you know whether
it's been permanently disabled, and that it hasn't been). It's common to
disable the auto deployment when practicing power-on stalls, for example (so
the gear doesn't drop while you get the airplane slowed down and otherwise
configured for the stall).

As for the warning horn, most retractable gear airplanes are equipped with
gear warning horns, and pilots frequently manage to ignore them. It seems
to me that in many gear-up landings, they are preceded by some sort of
distraction. Something odd about the traffic pattern entry, or having to
extend the pattern, or something along those lines. Of course, when a
distraction happens, the pilot may well find himself having to focus even
more, and this focus can result in not being aware of a warning horn.
Ironic, since that's just when the horn is most needed. :(

Anyway, I'd say that history has shown us that the airplane features you
mention (auto deply and warning horn) are not 100% effective in preventing
gear-up landings. Too often, the very factors that led to the gear-up
landing in the first place are related to why those features don't wind up
being useful.

Pete

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "steve" > said:
>They just sent me an email stating that a student pilot from the flight
>center they share it with, landed it with the gear up. How embarrassing,
>especially since the plane has an automatic gear down deployment once it
>drops below 100mph and the manifold and rpm resemble a landing
>configuration. He/she must have shut it off. It has a loud alarm that sounds
>off in that situation, so I don't know what might have happened..

Two possibilities:
- he disabled it when he was doing air work earlier OR
- he landed at 90 knots and half throttle.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
You had me at
print("Hello World\n");

[Peter R.]

Peter Duniho > wrote:

> As for the warning horn, most retractable gear airplanes are equipped with
> gear warning horns, and pilots frequently manage to ignore them
<snip>

With regards to my Bonanza, this horn is practically useless as it will
only sound when manifold pressure drops below 12 inches, well below the
green arc on the MP gauge (implying that for the majority of the approach
the horn would be silent).

It is not until power is pulled almost all the way back, which in my case
typically is less than 50 feet above the runway or about a second before
touchdown.


--
Peter

[Peter R.]

"Peter R." > wrote:

> It is not until power is pulled almost all the way back, which in my case
> typically is less than 50 feet above the runway or about a second before
> touchdown.

Sorry, didn't finish my thought here:

It is not until power is pulled almost all the way back that MP drops below
12 inches and into warning horn range.

--
Peter

[Jose[_1_]]

> It is not until power is pulled almost all the way back, which in my case
> typically is less than 50 feet above the runway or about a second before
> touchdown.

You land with a vertical speed of fifty feet per second? I don't think
it matters whether it's gear up or down at that point!

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Peter R.]

Jose > wrote:

>> It is not until power is pulled almost all the way back, which in my case
>> typically is less than 50 feet above the runway or about a second before
>> touchdown.
>
> You land with a vertical speed of fifty feet per second? I don't think
> it matters whether it's gear up or down at that point!

LESS than. I guess the tears in your eyes from your uncontrollable
laughter perhaps prevented you from reading that part. :)

--
Peter

[Jim Macklin]

Then your horn is not set properly. Also 50x60=3000 so if
you are coming down at 3000 fpm at 50 ft agl, your landings
are something to see.

The Arrow system could be defeated in two ways. As I recall
the first gear up was done by a pilot who made a high power
very flat high speed approach to a runway and flared and
pulled the power off just a foot above the surface. The
plane touched down before the gear had a chance to begin to
extend.

Others happened when CFIs practicing/teaching stalls used a
small wooden block to wedge the over-ride lever UP so they
could do slow flight and stalls without the gear falling
down and without having to hold the lever up by hand. They
would forget the block.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
| Peter Duniho > wrote:
|
| > As for the warning horn, most retractable gear airplanes
are equipped with
| > gear warning horns, and pilots frequently manage to
ignore them
| <snip>
|
| With regards to my Bonanza, this horn is practically
useless as it will
| only sound when manifold pressure drops below 12 inches,
well below the
| green arc on the MP gauge (implying that for the majority
of the approach
| the horn would be silent).
|
| It is not until power is pulled almost all the way back,
which in my case
| typically is less than 50 feet above the runway or about a
second before
| touchdown.
|
|
| --
| Peter

[Peter R.]

Jim Macklin > wrote:

> Then your horn is not set properly.

OK, when should it sound? 17 inches MP?

> Also 50x60=3000 so if
> you are coming down at 3000 fpm at 50 ft agl, your landings
> are something to see.

<sigh> You, too?

--
Peter

[Jim Macklin]

Yes, about 15-17 inches, low enough that you can slow down
and cool the engine without the horn sounding on every
landing. Depending on the model of your Bonanza, you can
use approach flaps and gear at 152 kts [if my old memory
works] but some models have much lower speeds. You will
need to plan your descents so that the airplane can slow
down to Vlo and Vfe without needing to shock cool the engine
and without hearing the horn.

A normal approach would involve a descent to TPA 2-3 miles
from the airport, then slowing to Vfe, gear down as required
to begin the descent at 700 fpm/85-100 kts depending on
traffic.
If your Bonanza has three green lights, check them 5 seconds
after you put the gear lever down. If yours is an old
model, with just one green light, understand that the gear
down microswitch is on the gear housing under the center
spar cover and it is looking at the position of the gear
housing. Since the Bonanza and Baron use steel push/pull
rods to operate the gear, if one gear leg is up or one is
down, the other two have to be in the same position unless
the steel rods are bent or the housing has broken. Have a
mechanic show you the system while it is on the jacks during
the 100 hr or annual.

On a flight, take a ruler up and set the throttle at the
power you'd use, 15-17 inches and measure the position of
the throttle and then your mechanic can set the warning horn
microswitch in the correct place.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin > wrote:
|
| > Then your horn is not set properly.
|
| OK, when should it sound? 17 inches MP?
|
| > Also 50x60=3000 so if
| > you are coming down at 3000 fpm at 50 ft agl, your
landings
| > are something to see.
|
| <sigh> You, too?
|
| --
| Peter

[Robert M. Gary]

Kingfish wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> >> They say we'll all do it at some point in our life.<<
>
> I sure hope not. If so, the insurance companies wouldn't write policies
> for complex acft anymore as they'd be replacing engines, props, and
> belly skins continually. I know distractions will happen, but I had it
> pounded into my head that if you do the same thing the same way every
> time you'll (usually) get the same result. That is, no sickening
> grinding noise during your (brief) rollout.

The problem is that you'll never be able to do the same thing at the
same time everytime. ATC may ask you to switch to a straight in,
traffic may start to take off the opposite direction on the runway,
etc. I sure hope I'll never land gear up, but I'm going to continue to
live with the idea that its just out there waiting to happen to me on
every flight.

-Robert

[gatt]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:tADvg.12811$6w.4234@fed1read11...
>I thought that auto extend feature had been disabled by a SB on most
>Arrows.. maybe only the older ones..

The '73 that I fly still has the auto-extend feature. If he was practicing
commercial maneuvers he might have disabled it with the override switch and
then forgotten to turn it off.

GUMPS. I hope I never forget it.

-c

[john smith]

In article >,
"Peter R." > wrote:

> It is not until power is pulled almost all the way back, which in my case
> typically is less than 50 feet above the runway or about a second before
> touchdown.

Wow! That must be something to watch! 50 feet per second vertical rate
of descent on landing! I didn't know Bonanza gear was that stout!

[Peter R.]

john smith > wrote:

> Wow! That must be something to watch! 50 feet per second vertical rate
> of descent on landing! I didn't know Bonanza gear was that stout!
<snip>

Some of you are so anal it makes me want to return to the bathroom for a
second wipe job to see what I am missing.

--
Peter

[Kingfish]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> The problem is that you'll never be able to do the same thing at the
> same time everytime. ATC may ask you to switch to a straight in,
> traffic may start to take off the opposite direction on the runway,
> etc. I sure hope I'll never land gear up, but I'm going to continue to
> live with the idea that its just out there waiting to happen to me on
> every flight.
>

Agreed. To clarify my statement about doing the same thing every time,
I should have been more specific. A quick GUMP check will always keep
you out of trouble regardless of where in the pattern you do it. It's
OK to have a healthy fear of a gear-up landing, just don't accept it as
inevitable as that old saying refers to (two kinds of pilots...)
Distractions do happen, and that's where training should take over. The
same guy at my old airport that bellied in his Baron almost did it a
second time a year later. He got distracted by LL turbulence and was
over the threshold when an eagle-eyed controller sent him around.

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote

> The problem is that you'll never be able to do the same thing at the
> same time everytime. ATC may ask you to switch to a straight in,
> traffic may start to take off the opposite direction on the runway,
> etc. I sure hope I'll never land gear up, but I'm going to continue to
> live with the idea that its just out there waiting to happen to me on
> every flight.

Yes, but there is time to check for the last time, before you reduce power
to settle in, that you do have something to settle in "on to."

Don't most people build into their approach and landing procedure, at least
3 opportunities to check gear down? Failure to do one because of being
busy, maybe, but 3 times? I'm with kingfish. Not everyone will land gear
up.
--
Jim in NC

[Newps]

In my S35 the gear horn start at about 13-14 inches. Bottom of the
green is 15 inches. I reduce to 15 inches about 5 miles out. My gear
speed is 165 but I like to be around 145 or less to save wear and tear.
After putting some time on my Bo this last 11 months I am convinced
that many gear ups happen because pilots don't slow down enough in the
pattern. I have a hard time getting below 100 without putting the gear
down. I know Bonanza pilots who are deathly afraid to ever get below
100 unless their wheels are inches from the ground.



Peter R. wrote:

> Peter Duniho > wrote:
>
>
>>As for the warning horn, most retractable gear airplanes are equipped with
>>gear warning horns, and pilots frequently manage to ignore them
>
> <snip>
>
> With regards to my Bonanza, this horn is practically useless as it will
> only sound when manifold pressure drops below 12 inches, well below the
> green arc on the MP gauge (implying that for the majority of the approach
> the horn would be silent).
>
> It is not until power is pulled almost all the way back, which in my case
> typically is less than 50 feet above the runway or about a second before
> touchdown.
>
>

[Newps]

Jim Macklin wrote:

> Yes, about 15-17 inches,


No. In the Bo the gear horn should never sound while the MP is in the
green.

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> john smith > wrote:
>
> > Wow! That must be something to watch! 50 feet per second vertical rate
> > of descent on landing! I didn't know Bonanza gear was that stout!
> <snip>
>
> Some of you are so anal it makes me want to return to the bathroom for a
> second wipe job to see what I am missing.

LOL! Thanks, I needed that!

Comedians out of work everywhere, and some people here are still trying to
be funny! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[john smith]

In article >,
"Peter R." > wrote:

> john smith > wrote:
>
> > Wow! That must be something to watch! 50 feet per second vertical rate
> > of descent on landing! I didn't know Bonanza gear was that stout!
> <snip>
>
> Some of you are so anal it makes me want to return to the bathroom for a
> second wipe job to see what I am missing.

And some are so anal they don't recognize a joke with a smiley! :-))

[Matt Whiting]

Peter R. wrote:
> Peter Duniho > wrote:
>
>
>>As for the warning horn, most retractable gear airplanes are equipped with
>>gear warning horns, and pilots frequently manage to ignore them
>
> <snip>
>
> With regards to my Bonanza, this horn is practically useless as it will
> only sound when manifold pressure drops below 12 inches, well below the
> green arc on the MP gauge (implying that for the majority of the approach
> the horn would be silent).
>
> It is not until power is pulled almost all the way back, which in my case
> typically is less than 50 feet above the runway or about a second before
> touchdown.

You must be ex-Navy if you are touching down with a 3,000 fpm rate of
descent (50 ft x 60 s/min).

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Peter R. wrote:

> Jose > wrote:
>
>
>>>It is not until power is pulled almost all the way back, which in my case
>>>typically is less than 50 feet above the runway or about a second before
>>>touchdown.
>>
>>You land with a vertical speed of fifty feet per second? I don't think
>>it matters whether it's gear up or down at that point!
>
>
> LESS than. I guess the tears in your eyes from your uncontrollable
> laughter perhaps prevented you from reading that part. :)
>

Even if it was half that, 25 fps is still 1500 fpm, which is a pretty
hefty rate of descent that close to the runway. I probably take 6 or
more seconds from 50 feet to touchdown.


Matt

[Jim Macklin]

I think you're talking mph. In any case, being too fast
makes a proper landing difficult. 1.3 Vso is perfectly
safe. Be sure to adjust for actual landing weight.


"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
| In my S35 the gear horn start at about 13-14 inches.
Bottom of the
| green is 15 inches. I reduce to 15 inches about 5 miles
out. My gear
| speed is 165 but I like to be around 145 or less to save
wear and tear.
| After putting some time on my Bo this last 11 months I am
convinced
| that many gear ups happen because pilots don't slow down
enough in the
| pattern. I have a hard time getting below 100 without
putting the gear
| down. I know Bonanza pilots who are deathly afraid to
ever get below
| 100 unless their wheels are inches from the ground.
|
|
|
| Peter R. wrote:
|
| > Peter Duniho > wrote:
| >
| >
| >>As for the warning horn, most retractable gear airplanes
are equipped with
| >>gear warning horns, and pilots frequently manage to
ignore them
| >
| > <snip>
| >
| > With regards to my Bonanza, this horn is practically
useless as it will
| > only sound when manifold pressure drops below 12 inches,
well below the
| > green arc on the MP gauge (implying that for the
majority of the approach
| > the horn would be silent).
| >
| > It is not until power is pulled almost all the way back,
which in my case
| > typically is less than 50 feet above the runway or about
a second before
| > touchdown.
| >
| >

[Matt Whiting]

Kingfish wrote:

> Jose wrote:
>
>>You land with a vertical speed of fifty feet per second? I don't think
>>it matters whether it's gear up or down at that point!
>
>
> Heh. I recall the first time I landed an Aerostar. I swore the main
> gear struts were gonna punch through the top of the wings. Damn high
> wing loading...
>

High wing loading doesn't cause bad landings. :-)

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Peter R. wrote:

> john smith > wrote:
>
>
>>Wow! That must be something to watch! 50 feet per second vertical rate
>>of descent on landing! I didn't know Bonanza gear was that stout!
>
> <snip>
>
> Some of you are so anal it makes me want to return to the bathroom for a
> second wipe job to see what I am missing.

And some write before they think giving us lots of material.

Matt

[Jim Macklin]

15 is the bottom of the green, I like 17 because going below
that can shock cool the cylinders. 12-13 is too low because
some times you might be committing to a landing, [soft
field] with more power than that. Just my preference.


"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
|
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| > Yes, about 15-17 inches,
|
|
| No. In the Bo the gear horn should never sound while the
MP is in the
| green.
|
|
|

[john smith]

In article <j3Svg.78949$ZW3.42799@dukeread04>,
"Jim Macklin" > wrote:

> 15 is the bottom of the green, I like 17 because going below
> that can shock cool the cylinders. 12-13 is too low because
> some times you might be committing to a landing, [soft
> field] with more power than that. Just my preference.

IIRC, the Cutlass/C172RG is set to go off at 15-inches MP.

[Peter R.]

Newps > wrote:

> I have a hard time getting below 100 without putting the gear
> down.

I, also.

> I know Bonanza pilots who are deathly afraid to ever get below
> 100 unless their wheels are inches from the ground.

We've discussed this before, but you may recall the previous owner of my
aircraft had a cow when I was flying him a few years ago and the stall
warning horn chirped as the wheels touched. He is one of those pilots who
has to land fast.

I enjoy the challenge of landing the Bo in the shortest distance possible,
so I don't have a problem crossing the fence at 60kts.

--
Peter

[Peter R.]

Matt Whiting > wrote:

> And some write before they think giving us lots of material.

Matt, what's with the cranky tone? I prefer not to stir up any hard
feelings with you, especially after I thought we settled our differences
last year.


--
Peter

[Peter R.]

john smith > wrote:

> And some are so anal they don't recognize a joke with a smiley! :-))

I did and I thought it was the perfect opportunity for a Bob Newhart-style
comeback. Sorry, a smiley there would have ruined the delivery.

--
Peter

[Newps]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> 15 is the bottom of the green, I like 17 because going below
> that can shock cool the cylinders.

No such thing.

[Jim Macklin]

Full power, hot cylinders, power back to 12 inches,
cylinders cool fast, also turbocharged engines make that
turbo damage with big fast power reductions.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
|
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > 15 is the bottom of the green, I like 17 because going
below
| > that can shock cool the cylinders.
|
| No such thing.
|
|
|

[Robert M. Gary]

Kingfish wrote:
> Agreed. To clarify my statement about doing the same thing every time,
> I should have been more specific. A quick GUMP check will always keep
> you out of trouble regardless of where in the pattern you do it.

This is a fun read
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20051128X01899&key=1

[Montblack[_1_]]

("john smith" wrote)
>> Some of you are so anal it makes me want to return to the bathroom for a
>> second wipe job to see what I am missing.

> And some are so anal they don't recognize a joke with a smiley! :-))


Wouldn't that be ...a smelly?


Montblack

[Matt Whiting]

Peter R. wrote:

> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>
>>And some write before they think giving us lots of material.
>
>
> Matt, what's with the cranky tone? I prefer not to stir up any hard
> feelings with you, especially after I thought we settled our differences
> last year.

Just matching your cranky responses to those who pointed out the
mathematical inconsistency in your statement. :-)

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Montblack wrote:

> ("john smith" wrote)
>
>>> Some of you are so anal it makes me want to return to the bathroom
>>> for a second wipe job to see what I am missing.
>
>
>> And some are so anal they don't recognize a joke with a smiley! :-))
>
>
>
> Wouldn't that be ...a smelly?

You are excused now, Montblack! :-)

Matt

[Peter R.]

Matt Whiting > wrote:

> Just matching your cranky responses to those who pointed out the
> mathematical inconsistency in your statement. :-)

That is where you were mistaken. I didn't intend to convey a terse tone.
It was deadpan humor.

--
Peter

[Matt Whiting]

Peter R. wrote:
> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>
>>Just matching your cranky responses to those who pointed out the
>>mathematical inconsistency in your statement. :-)
>
>
> That is where you were mistaken. I didn't intend to convey a terse tone.
> It was deadpan humor.
>

I didn't see the "deadpan" emoticon.... :-)

Matt

[Peter R.]

Matt Whiting > wrote:

> I didn't see the "deadpan" emoticon.... :-)

:-| Is that it? Admittedly, I didn't think about it until after.

--
Peter

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Montblack" > wrote

> Wouldn't that be ...a smelly?

You know, you can be a real turd, sometimes!
<g>
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Peter R." > wrote

> That is where you were mistaken. I didn't intend to convey a terse tone.
> It was deadpan humor.

I got it, the first time past.

Oh, no! That doesn't mean I'm developing a British sense of humor, does it?
--
Jim in NC

[john smith]

> > Wouldn't that be ...a smelly?

> You know, you can be a real turd, sometimes! <g>

At least he's not an old fart like some posters. <g>

[Peter R.]

Morgans > wrote:

> I got it, the first time past.

"Great minds think alike," or in this case, "Great. Minds think alike." :)

--
Peter

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Peter R." wrote)
> That is where you were mistaken. I didn't intend to convey a terse tone.
> It was deadpan humor.


I think we're well beyond that, now we're into bedpan humor.

[o]

Montblack

[Dylan Smith]

On 2006-07-20, gatt > wrote:
> GUMPS. I hope I never forget it.

GUMP does not stand for Gas, Undercarriage, Mixture, Prop.

It actually stands for:

G - Gear Down
U - Undercarriage down
M - Make sure the wheels are down
P - Put the wheels down

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

[Dylan Smith]

Bad form following up to one's own post, but I forgot to add that if the
gear up incident in the Arrow was bad, consider the fate our Grumman
met. It's fixed gear and it got landed gear up. Or rather gear removed -
a botched landing resulted in two of the three gear legs being torn off
- go around from a downwind landing, and went through the hedge at the
end of the runway...

http://www.alioth.net/pics/DeadGrumman-2006-06-17/

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Dylan Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Bad form following up to one's own post, but I forgot to add that if the
> gear up incident in the Arrow was bad, consider the fate our Grumman
> met. It's fixed gear and it got landed gear up. Or rather gear removed -
> a botched landing resulted in two of the three gear legs being torn off
> - go around from a downwind landing, and went through the hedge at the
> end of the runway...
>
> http://www.alioth.net/pics/DeadGrumman-2006-06-17/

Did you do that, or was it a club plane, or something?
--
Jim in NC

[Alan Gerber]

Dylan Smith > wrote:
> On 2006-07-20, gatt > wrote:
> > GUMPS. I hope I never forget it.

> GUMP does not stand for Gas, Undercarriage, Mixture, Prop.

> It actually stands for:

> G - Gear Down
> U - Undercarriage down
> M - Make sure the wheels are down
> P - Put the wheels down

You forgot the "S" (it's GUMPS, not GUMP):

S - Are you SURE the wheels are down?

.... Alan

--
Alan Gerber
gerber AT panix DOT com

[Dylan Smith]

On 2006-07-22, Morgans > wrote:
>> http://www.alioth.net/pics/DeadGrumman-2006-06-17/
>
> Did you do that, or was it a club plane, or something?

No, it wasn't me, it was a member who shall remain nameless. Landed long
downwind then decided they weren't going to stop in time after already
having applied the brakes. If you've ever flown a Cheetah, you'll know
that the earth is round so Cheetahs can get off the ground. A downwind
takeoff with a tailwind isn't the recipe for success.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

[ET]

"Flyingmonk" > wrote in
s.com:

>
> steve wrote:
>> Bummer,
>>
>> I had the Arrow reserved with the flight center I use, for next week
>> and for a couple of days in August.
>>
>> They just sent me an email stating that a student pilot from the
>> flight center they share it with, landed it with the gear up. How
>> embarrassing, especially since the plane has an automatic gear down
>> deployment once it drops below 100mph and the manifold and rpm
>> resemble a landing configuration. He/she must have shut it off. It
>> has a loud alarm that sounds off in that situation, so I don't know
>> what might have happened..
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
>> with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
>> you will always long to return"
>> - Leonardo Da Vinci
>
> I think the statement(I can't remember who said it first) goes
> something like this, "First rule of thumb when designing fool proof
> <anything> is never to underestimate a fool."
>
> Monk
>

Read sig.. <grin>

--
-- ET >:-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

[Flyingmonk[_1_]]

ET wrote:
> "Flyingmonk" > wrote in
> s.com:
>
> >
> > steve wrote:
> >> Bummer,
> >>
> >> I had the Arrow reserved with the flight center I use, for next week
> >> and for a couple of days in August.
> >>
> >> They just sent me an email stating that a student pilot from the
> >> flight center they share it with, landed it with the gear up. How
> >> embarrassing, especially since the plane has an automatic gear down
> >> deployment once it drops below 100mph and the manifold and rpm
> >> resemble a landing configuration. He/she must have shut it off. It
> >> has a loud alarm that sounds off in that situation, so I don't know
> >> what might have happened..
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
> >> with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
> >> you will always long to return"
> >> - Leonardo Da Vinci
> >
> > I think the statement(I can't remember who said it first) goes
> > something like this, "First rule of thumb when designing fool proof
> > <anything> is never to underestimate a fool."
> >
> > Monk
> >
>
> Read sig.. <grin>
>
> --
> -- ET >:-)
>
> "A common mistake people make when trying to design something
> completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
> fools."---- Douglas Adams

Hey thanks ET 8^)

Monk