New to all this - need some advice and answers

[Rom]

OK, this is going to be a rather long post since I have quite a few
question and they are all over the bloody map here. I know most of you
have gone through this sometime and while I do expect I'm not
necessarily going to hear what I want, I'll definitely hear mostly what
I need..

Bear in mind, I'm completely new to this - decided to go and get a PPL
and work on additonal certifications here (instrument and commercial -
mainly for lower insurance rates).

The problem for me is the time I can dedicate to this - I am a
consultant and travel 4 days a week (mostly to East Coast projects - I
live just south of Denver), so this will not be a commuter aircraft -
unless I move to Richmond, Savannah or Charlotte in the next couple of
years, in which case I could probably use it to back and forth betwen
projects and the house.

First of all, I started doing some analysis and decided on buying a
plane instead of actually renting one. Has anyone done the actual
comparison on totoal cost of ownership and the actual cost of renting
an aircraft?

My target (first) plane is a C-150/C-152... something IFR (instrument
rating is definitely a goal for me)... not a heck of a lot of hours
SMOH, low STOH, as long as the aircraft has been well maintained TTAF
is not that much of an issue (provided is not way over the top here)...
I would say price is going to be anywhere between $19K and $23K
(depending on year and over variables)... (am I on target here or way
off?)... Speed is not an initial consideration here, I want to build
the hours and get the ratings before I move up to something more
"exciting"...

I figure I'd keep the plane for a couple of years - log a couple
hundred hours on it and sell it to buy another plane (a C-172?)...

Few questions:
1. Are my estimates around the right range?
2. What can a no-rating owner expect for insurance per year on a
C150/C152 here?
3. Maintenance... Tricky, I know... but what are the average cost on
annuals?...
4. What should I look for here?
5. Additional little questions:
a) hangar cost - what do you all recommend here? Hangar? Tie-down?
b) landing fees - how do these work
c) who do I talk to at a local airport (KAPA is closest to
Highlands Ranch) to find out about these?

The reason I have to ask all these is to pacify my CFO (aka. wife) as
to the costs related to flying...

Also, did anyone have issues with their life-insurance? I believe mine
can be cancelled if I do "extreme" sports (flying is listed here, as is
parachuting)... Funny thing is that this is done regardless of whether
I die flying (or practicing these sports) or not. So, on that side, is
there a pilot-friendly or pilot group insurance available to pilots?

So... any advice you all (nope, I'm not from Texas) can throw me, I
would appreciate it... Also, lessons learned and gotchas would be
nice...

Yeah - this can be fun.

Rom

[[email protected]]

On 21-Jul-2006, "Rom" > wrote:

> My target (first) plane is a C-150/C-152... something IFR (instrument
> rating is definitely a goal for me)... not a heck of a lot of hours
> SMOH, low STOH, as long as the aircraft has been well maintained TTAF
> is not that much of an issue (provided is not way over the top here)...
> I would say price is going to be anywhere between $19K and $23K
> (depending on year and over variables)... (am I on target here or way
> off?)... Speed is not an initial consideration here, I want to build
> the hours and get the ratings before I move up to something more
> "exciting"...

If you plan on moving toward an instrument rating, and if you live in the
Denver area, then a 150/152 probably won't be the best choice. I'd consider
a Cherokee 140 as a "basic first airplane" that will provide better than
marginal performance and range, Much more likely to find a Cherokee that is
IFR equipped, too.



> I figure I'd keep the plane for a couple of years - log a couple
> hundred hours on it and sell it to buy another plane (a C-172?)...

Nothing wrong with that, but a 172 is also a fine first airplane if you can
afford it.


>
> Few questions:
> 1. Are my estimates around the right range?

What estimates are you talking about? Cost for a 150/152? You may be a bit
optimistic for a low time, IFR equipped one. Cost relative to renting? If
you are only flying 1000 hrs/year owning will be a LOT more expensive.
Break even point is probably around 200 hrs/year. You might consider a
partnership.

> 2. What can a no-rating owner expect for insurance per year on a
> C150/C152 here?

As a non-pilot the insurance is essentially for training. You might call an
insurance broker that specializes in aviation insurance for a quotation.
They will give estimates for a "hypothetical" plane.

> 3. Maintenance... Tricky, I know... but what are the average cost on
> annuals?...

Can be all over the map. However, ON AVERAGE, you might figure on $1000 to
$2000 per year for routine maintenance on an older 150/152. Maybe a few
hundred more for a Cherokee 140 or a 172. A small part of this would be the
annual inspection itself. More will be for correcting the problems that the
inspection finds. This number assumes that you do some of the easiest stuff
(like oil changes) yourself. It does not include a reserve for eventual
overhaul or replacement of the engine

> 4. What should I look for here?

Look for as in maintenance? You will look for a shop you can trust, that
has experience in your model of airplane. You might get recommendations
from members of this board.


> 5. Additional little questions:
> a) hangar cost - what do you all recommend here? Hangar? Tie-down?

Depends upon where you are. In hailstone country or the frozen north, a
hangar is almost a necessity. But in the big cities hangars can cost
hundreds of dollars per month.


> b) landing fees - how do these work

Only the largest airports, those that cater primarily to the airlines,
charge landing fees. There are some exceptions, such as some airports in
resort areas, but these are pretty rare. Landing fee for a single might be
in the $10 range at one of those.



> c) who do I talk to at a local airport (KAPA is closest to
> Highlands Ranch) to find out about these?

Check out: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAPA


>
> The reason I have to ask all these is to pacify my CFO (aka. wife) as
> to the costs related to flying...

A pretty common domestic issue among pilots.


>
> Also, did anyone have issues with their life-insurance? I believe mine
> can be cancelled if I do "extreme" sports (flying is listed here, as is
> parachuting)... Funny thing is that this is done regardless of whether
> I die flying (or practicing these sports) or not. So, on that side, is
> there a pilot-friendly or pilot group insurance available to pilots?

Check with your insurance agent. Yes, there are companies that specialize
in term life insurance for pilots. Rates are only a bit higher than
"ordinary" term policies.


-Elliott Drucker

[Peter R.]

> wrote:

> Cost relative to renting? If
> you are only flying 1000 hrs/year owning will be a LOT more expensive.
> Break even point is probably around 200 hrs/year.

Just so the OP is clear, that number should be 100 (one hundred) hours per
year, not 1,000. :)


--
Peter

[TF]

Sounds like your excited to begin. In addition to the wisdom on this site
there are quite a few other resources that you should use as well. AOPA it
an excellent starting point. Got a question on Aviation just type it into
google.

The fact that you asked the question reveals how much you will have yet to
learn (and thats a good thing). I've read Buying and Owning your own
Airplane by James E. Ellis. (2004).

I'm lucking enough to fly out of an FBO which has a well maintained range of
equipment (two 152, 72 (two SP's and a G1000), 182RG, and an Archer. For my
type of flying (xc usually within 3 hours) the economics and availability
of equipment still favors renting for me. Its like have a personal fleet of
planes to match my specific needs. Fun breakfast run or serious IFR xc.

I have my IFR checkride next week. My first flight was March 2004 I now
have 260 hours. Only now do I really know the type of plane that would fit
my needs except I don't really have the funds to spend on my dream plane.

Good luck and welcome to GA.

"Rom" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> OK, this is going to be a rather long post since I have quite a few
> question and they are all over the bloody map here. I know most of you
> have gone through this sometime and while I do expect I'm not
> necessarily going to hear what I want, I'll definitely hear mostly what
> I need..
>
> Bear in mind, I'm completely new to this - decided to go and get a PPL
> and work on additonal certifications here (instrument and commercial -
> mainly for lower insurance rates).
>
> The problem for me is the time I can dedicate to this - I am a
> consultant and travel 4 days a week (mostly to East Coast projects - I
> live just south of Denver), so this will not be a commuter aircraft -
> unless I move to Richmond, Savannah or Charlotte in the next couple of
> years, in which case I could probably use it to back and forth betwen
> projects and the house.
>
> First of all, I started doing some analysis and decided on buying a
> plane instead of actually renting one. Has anyone done the actual
> comparison on totoal cost of ownership and the actual cost of renting
> an aircraft?
>
> My target (first) plane is a C-150/C-152... something IFR (instrument
> rating is definitely a goal for me)... not a heck of a lot of hours
> SMOH, low STOH, as long as the aircraft has been well maintained TTAF
> is not that much of an issue (provided is not way over the top here)...
> I would say price is going to be anywhere between $19K and $23K
> (depending on year and over variables)... (am I on target here or way
> off?)... Speed is not an initial consideration here, I want to build
> the hours and get the ratings before I move up to something more
> "exciting"...
>
> I figure I'd keep the plane for a couple of years - log a couple
> hundred hours on it and sell it to buy another plane (a C-172?)...
>
> Few questions:
> 1. Are my estimates around the right range?
> 2. What can a no-rating owner expect for insurance per year on a
> C150/C152 here?
> 3. Maintenance... Tricky, I know... but what are the average cost on
> annuals?...
> 4. What should I look for here?
> 5. Additional little questions:
> a) hangar cost - what do you all recommend here? Hangar? Tie-down?
> b) landing fees - how do these work
> c) who do I talk to at a local airport (KAPA is closest to
> Highlands Ranch) to find out about these?
>
> The reason I have to ask all these is to pacify my CFO (aka. wife) as
> to the costs related to flying...
>
> Also, did anyone have issues with their life-insurance? I believe mine
> can be cancelled if I do "extreme" sports (flying is listed here, as is
> parachuting)... Funny thing is that this is done regardless of whether
> I die flying (or practicing these sports) or not. So, on that side, is
> there a pilot-friendly or pilot group insurance available to pilots?
>
> So... any advice you all (nope, I'm not from Texas) can throw me, I
> would appreciate it... Also, lessons learned and gotchas would be
> nice...
>
> Yeah - this can be fun.
>
> Rom
>

[Rom]

wrote:
> On 21-Jul-2006, "Rom" > wrote:
>

First of all: Thanks for the detailed answer - I really appreciate it.

> If you plan on moving toward an instrument rating, and if you live in the
> Denver area, then a 150/152 probably won't be the best choice. I'd consider
> a Cherokee 140 as a "basic first airplane" that will provide better than
> marginal performance and range, Much more likely to find a Cherokee that is
> IFR equipped, too.

Instinctively (I think) I had this sort of hit list in mind for a first
aircraft: C150/C152, closely followed by a C172 or a PA28. And yes,
much easier to find a PA28 with a current IFR then a C150/C152. A few
bucks more, but not that much.

I actually stated (don't laugh!) writing a quick database application
for comparing various aircraft for sale - different sort criteria for
the results (TTAF, SMOH, SNEW, damage, avionics, interior, exterior,
damage history, etc.) - but that's subject for yet another post.

For the record: I am using FileMaker 8.0 (Advanced Edition) so it
should work on both Windows XP and Mac (should be easy to deploy it to
a web site as well, but that's not part of the objectives for Rel 1.0
of this thing). The one piece I am having a hard time (even designing)
is the agent to parse through the web sites to mine the check the free
text normally associated with a for sale post (something like "1976
CESSNA 150, 4900 TT, 1250 SOH , IFR !! , DME, Transponder, 3 radios,
fresh annual, air paint, good int., For Sale - $22,900" has a lot of
information packed into a single line in the posting - making sense of
that without human intervention can be quite tricky - doable, but
tricky)

The objective here is to have something that helps me and could
potentially help someone else as well - I can't be theonly guy out
there with this problem.

Sorry, I digress...

> > Few questions:
> > 1. Are my estimates around the right range?
>
> What estimates are you talking about? Cost for a 150/152? You may be a bit
> optimistic for a low time, IFR equipped one. Cost relative to renting? If
> you are only flying 1000 hrs/year owning will be a LOT more expensive.
> Break even point is probably around 200 hrs/year. You might consider a
> partnership.

Yeah, I have about 15 or 20 C150's and C152's I picked up from the web
(various sites, mostly www.controller.com) and the average asking price
is just north of $22K, but there are a few South of 20K - but higher
TTAF, high SMOH, things like that).

BTW: can anyone recommend more aircraft for sale web sites?

> > 2. What can a no-rating owner expect for insurance per year on a
> > C150/C152 here?
>
> As a non-pilot the insurance is essentially for training. You might call an
> insurance broker that specializes in aviation insurance for a quotation.
> They will give estimates for a "hypothetical" plane.

Yeah. I'll do just that.

> > 3. Maintenance... Tricky, I know... but what are the average cost on
> > annuals?...
>
> Can be all over the map. However, ON AVERAGE, you might figure on $1000 to
> $2000 per year for routine maintenance on an older 150/152. Maybe a few
> hundred more for a Cherokee 140 or a 172. A small part of this would be the
> annual inspection itself. More will be for correcting the problems that the
> inspection finds. This number assumes that you do some of the easiest stuff
> (like oil changes) yourself. It does not include a reserve for eventual
> overhaul or replacement of the engine

Great! - this helps out a lot!

> > 4. What should I look for here?

> Look for as in maintenance? You will look for a shop you can trust, that
> has experience in your model of airplane. You might get recommendations
> from members of this board.
>

Yep. I'll do just that

> > The reason I have to ask all these is to pacify my CFO (aka. wife) as
> > to the costs related to flying...
>
> A pretty common domestic issue among pilots.

And all this time I thought I was the only one with a problem like
that... ;-)


> -Elliott Drucker

Thanks, Elliott. I really appreciate it. This helps out a lot!!

Rom

[Rom]

TF wrote:
> Sounds like your excited to begin. In addition to the wisdom on this site
> there are quite a few other resources that you should use as well. AOPA it
> an excellent starting point. Got a question on Aviation just type it into
> google.
>
> The fact that you asked the question reveals how much you will have yet to
> learn (and thats a good thing). I've read Buying and Owning your own
> Airplane by James E. Ellis. (2004).

Going to Barnes and Noble right now... If I can't find it in there I'll
just go to Amazon.

> I'm lucking enough to fly out of an FBO which has a well maintained range of
> equipment (two 152, 72 (two SP's and a G1000), 182RG, and an Archer. For my
> type of flying (xc usually within 3 hours) the economics and availability
> of equipment still favors renting for me. Its like have a personal fleet of
> planes to match my specific needs. Fun breakfast run or serious IFR xc.

That's something to consider as well...

> I have my IFR checkride next week. My first flight was March 2004 I now
> have 260 hours. Only now do I really know the type of plane that would fit
> my needs except I don't really have the funds to spend on my dream plane.
>
> Good luck and welcome to GA.
>

Hey, thanks - It looks as it will get busy all of the sudden?

<Rom>

[Vaughn Simon]

"Rom" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> First of all, I started doing some analysis and decided on buying a
> plane instead of actually renting one. Has anyone done the actual
> comparison on totoal cost of ownership and the actual cost of renting
> an aircraft?
>
Write this down on the back of your hand in indelible ink where you will
see it several times every hour: "Simple aviation rule of thumb: Any form of
ownership is almost always more expensive than any form of renting."

Renting will give you the option of taking your lessons from more than one
place while you travel around. (doing that will result in a less efficient
learning process, but will give you broader experience) Also there is an
important "try before you buy" factor when you do your early training in a
variety of rental airplanes. With that experience under your belt, it is much
less likely that you will make the expensive error of buying the wrong airplane.

Renting also gives you the option of buying only the capability that you
need for each flight. At the place that I fly, I have the choice of C-152,
steam-gauge 172, G1000 172, or more advanced aircraft. For a solo breakfast
run, there is little reason to fly anything more than the 152, but for a family
outing a 172 is probably a better idea. If I owned an airplane, half the time I
would be flying the wrong aircraft for the mission.

If you decide that you MUST own, then you need to carefully consider the
several types of ownerships that may be available to you; straight purchase,
partnership, club, leaseback, fractional etc,, etc.

Regards
Vaughn

[RST Engineering]

Famous maxim: If it flies, floats, or fornicates, it is far cheaper to
rent. Having said that, there is absolutely nothing like knowing you can go
out to the airport to YOUR airplane and fly away at will.

Sort of like finding the exact woman and marrying her.

Jim



>>
> Write this down on the back of your hand in indelible ink where you
> will see it several times every hour: "Simple aviation rule of thumb: Any
> form of ownership is almost always more expensive than any form of
> renting."
>

[Mark Hansen]

On 07/22/06 12:45, RST Engineering wrote:
> Famous maxim: If it flies, floats, or fornicates, it is far cheaper to
> rent. Having said that, there is absolutely nothing like knowing you can go
> out to the airport to YOUR airplane and fly away at will.
>
> Sort of like finding the exact woman and marrying her.

Yes, except the airplane will be less expensive ;-)

>
> Jim
>

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Frank Stutzman]

RST Engineering > wrote:
> Famous maxim: If it flies, floats, or fornicates, it is far cheaper to
> rent. Having said that, there is absolutely nothing like knowing you can go
> out to the airport to YOUR airplane and fly away at will.
>
> Sort of like finding the exact woman and marrying her.

Indeed, thats why I became an owner and married. Got awful uneasy about who it
was that last fly, float or fornicate it.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

[Vaughn Simon]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> Famous maxim: If it flies, floats, or fornicates, it is far cheaper to rent.
> Having said that, there is absolutely nothing like knowing you can go out to
> the airport to YOUR airplane and fly away at will.
>
> Sort of like finding the exact woman and marrying her.

It is unfortunate perhaps, but it is an inescapable fact that I spend far
more time in bed than I spend flying. Marriage is the best deal I ever made.

Vaughn

[Private]

"Rom" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> OK, this is going to be a rather long post since I have quite a few
> question and they are all over the bloody map here. I know most of you
> have gone through this sometime and while I do expect I'm not
> necessarily going to hear what I want, I'll definitely hear mostly what
> I need..
snip
> Also, did anyone have issues with their life-insurance? I believe mine
> can be cancelled if I do "extreme" sports (flying is listed here, as is
> parachuting)... Funny thing is that this is done regardless of whether
> I die flying (or practicing these sports) or not. So, on that side, is
> there a pilot-friendly or pilot group insurance available to pilots?
>

- SOME life insurance companies charge higher rates (or refuse) to insure
pilots.
- Some insurance companies ASK it you are a pilot (or are in training), some
do not care.
- Some insurance companies do(or can) NOT raise rates for EXISTING policy
holders who take up piloting during the term of a policy. They may (or not,
at their option) raise the rates on additional coverage purchased after your
initial policy.
- You MAY be advised to purchase all or most of your expected life insurance
needs BEFORE you begin pilot training.
- YMMV
- Talk to several agents and brokers and do NOT falsify any applications.

[Maule Driver]

Like most maxims and ROTs, YMMV. Best way to afford a/c ownership can
be a commiting to the right partner. Two incomes go furthur than one.

RST Engineering wrote:
> Famous maxim: If it flies, floats, or fornicates, it is far cheaper to
> rent. Having said that, there is absolutely nothing like knowing you can go
> out to the airport to YOUR airplane and fly away at will.
>
> Sort of like finding the exact woman and marrying her.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>> Write this down on the back of your hand in indelible ink where you
>>will see it several times every hour: "Simple aviation rule of thumb: Any
>>form of ownership is almost always more expensive than any form of
>>renting."
>>
>
>
>

[Doug[_1_]]

If you want to know the cost of owning, check out the cost of renting.
Owning is seldom less expensive than renting, so consider the rent
figure to be a floor. The more hours you fly a plane the less per hour
it costs. Maintenace is hard to predict.

If you are just starting out, you are way better off to rent than own.
It is complicated enough to rent and learn without having to deal with
all the hassles of ownership too.

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

Maule Driver wrote:
> Like most maxims and ROTs, YMMV. Best way to afford a/c ownership can
> be a commiting to the right partner. Two incomes go furthur than one.

Everything is 1/2 price! <G>

[Don Tuite]

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:45:20 -0700, "RST Engineering"
> wrote:

>Famous maxim: If it flies, floats, or fornicates, it is far cheaper to
>rent. Having said that, there is absolutely nothing like knowing you can go
>out to the airport to YOUR airplane and fly away at will.
>
Except that you're waiting for a new windshield, or you've called all
the wrecking yards for a part nobody has and now you need somebody to
fabricate it for you, or there's a family of bluebirds in a nest in
the cowling any your SO thinks you should wait until the eggs hatch
and the chicks fledge before you clean it out, because, "Aren't they
flyers too?"

Don

[Jon Kraus]

Good advise... I rented for 3 years before buying and learned a lot in
the process.

Now I know 2 things for sure.... Renting is far cheaper than owning....
Owning is far more satifying than renting... YMMV

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP


Doug wrote:
> If you want to know the cost of owning, check out the cost of renting.
> Owning is seldom less expensive than renting, so consider the rent
> figure to be a floor. The more hours you fly a plane the less per hour
> it costs. Maintenace is hard to predict.
>
> If you are just starting out, you are way better off to rent than own.
> It is complicated enough to rent and learn without having to deal with
> all the hassles of ownership too.
>

[Al[_1_]]

"Private" > wrote in message
news:4xQwg.222796$Mn5.91929@pd7tw3no...
>
> "Rom" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> OK, this is going to be a rather long post since I have quite a few
>> question and they are all over the bloody map here. I know most of you
>> have gone through this sometime and while I do expect I'm not
>> necessarily going to hear what I want, I'll definitely hear mostly what
>> I need..
> snip
>> Also, did anyone have issues with their life-insurance? I believe mine
>> can be cancelled if I do "extreme" sports (flying is listed here, as is
>> parachuting)... Funny thing is that this is done regardless of whether
>> I die flying (or practicing these sports) or not. So, on that side, is
>> there a pilot-friendly or pilot group insurance available to pilots?
>>
>
> - SOME life insurance companies charge higher rates (or refuse) to insure
> pilots.
> - Some insurance companies ASK it you are a pilot (or are in training),
> some do not care.
> - Some insurance companies do(or can) NOT raise rates for EXISTING policy
> holders who take up piloting during the term of a policy. They may (or
> not, at their option) raise the rates on additional coverage purchased
> after your initial policy.
> - You MAY be advised to purchase all or most of your expected life
> insurance needs BEFORE you begin pilot training.
> - YMMV
> - Talk to several agents and brokers and do NOT falsify any applications.
>

My life insurance company had no restrictions or increased prices. They did
want to know however. New York Life.

Al G

[[email protected]]

Rom wrote:
> Few questions:
> 1. Are my estimates around the right range?
> 2. What can a no-rating owner expect for insurance per year on a
> C150/C152 here?
> 3. Maintenance... Tricky, I know... but what are the average cost on
> annuals?...
> 4. What should I look for here?
> 5. Additional little questions:
> a) hangar cost - what do you all recommend here? Hangar? Tie-down?
> b) landing fees - how do these work
> c) who do I talk to at a local airport (KAPA is closest to
> Highlands Ranch) to find out about these?
>
> Rom

The next time on a long driving trip, when you see an airport sign,
pull in and try to rent a plane. I did this in 2004 as a road trip took
me through all but two states west of the Mississippi. I found not a
single place where I could pull in and rent a plane. Some FBOs didn't
rent. Others did rent, but only if you were a local flyer. All of them
required a check-out ride which would take 1.5 hours or so, and after
jumping through that hurdle, they often required you to schedule the
plane days in advance. For long trips they required you to pay 3 hours
rental each day whether you flew or not. So . . .

I bought a Cessna 150 IFR equippped in the price range you mentioned
and have averaged 150 hours each of the last two years. I can fly when
I want, have the plane in exactly the condition I last flew it, fly for
days or land and tie-it down at some remote airport for several days,
and the total cost, including fuel, oil, hanger, all inspections,
maintenance, repair, insurance, and set-aside for engine overhaul is
still *less* per hour than the rental rate in this part of the world
(Missouri.)

For instance, my cost in 2005 (150 hours) including everything
mentioned above was $45.00 per hour.

I also think owning your own plane is a safety issue because I control
who flys and works on the plane. In addition I learn the quirks of that
particular plane.

[Jon Kraus]

Do you have an engine and prop reserve out of that $45 an hour? How
about a reserve for insurance, hanger or tiedown rent, annual inspection
fees? I'm sure that the plane (being a 150) is paid for so that fee
doesn' apply.

I am worried that you are giving the guy too rosy of a picture of plane
ownerhship expenses. Maybe you are and if so these are very reasonable
numbers. It costs me over $1000 a month to keep and fly our Mooney.

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP

wrote:

> Rom wrote:
>
>>Few questions:
>>1. Are my estimates around the right range?
>>2. What can a no-rating owner expect for insurance per year on a
>>C150/C152 here?
>>3. Maintenance... Tricky, I know... but what are the average cost on
>>annuals?...
>>4. What should I look for here?
>>5. Additional little questions:
>> a) hangar cost - what do you all recommend here? Hangar? Tie-down?
>> b) landing fees - how do these work
>> c) who do I talk to at a local airport (KAPA is closest to
>>Highlands Ranch) to find out about these?
>>
>>Rom
>
>
> The next time on a long driving trip, when you see an airport sign,
> pull in and try to rent a plane. I did this in 2004 as a road trip took
> me through all but two states west of the Mississippi. I found not a
> single place where I could pull in and rent a plane. Some FBOs didn't
> rent. Others did rent, but only if you were a local flyer. All of them
> required a check-out ride which would take 1.5 hours or so, and after
> jumping through that hurdle, they often required you to schedule the
> plane days in advance. For long trips they required you to pay 3 hours
> rental each day whether you flew or not. So . . .
>
> I bought a Cessna 150 IFR equippped in the price range you mentioned
> and have averaged 150 hours each of the last two years. I can fly when
> I want, have the plane in exactly the condition I last flew it, fly for
> days or land and tie-it down at some remote airport for several days,
> and the total cost, including fuel, oil, hanger, all inspections,
> maintenance, repair, insurance, and set-aside for engine overhaul is
> still *less* per hour than the rental rate in this part of the world
> (Missouri.)
>
> For instance, my cost in 2005 (150 hours) including everything
> mentioned above was $45.00 per hour.
>
> I also think owning your own plane is a safety issue because I control
> who flys and works on the plane. In addition I learn the quirks of that
> particular plane.
>