Re: Manufacturing Quality

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

I used to believe the same thing about GMC and Chevy, only cosmetic
differences. But now after owning two GMC Sierras I am beginning to
suspect some other differences. Even though the use hasn't changed, the
GMCs require about 1/2 the maintenance as the Chevys did. Simple things
like sticky throttles, intermittent switches, loose exhaust brackets,
etc. don't seem to be plaguing our GMCs like they did the Chevy variant.

My wife says they "sound" different too; "tighter and more
put-together".

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Whiting ]
Posted At: Sunday, August 06, 2006 6:34 PM
Posted To: rec.aviation.piloting
Conversation: Manufacturing Quality
Subject: Re: Manufacturing Quality

Matt Whiting wrote:

> Newps wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wrote the above, not Newps. So who are you really agreeing with?
>>> Newps who says sales volume is synonymous with quality
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I never said that or even hinted at it. You may disagree but to me
>> Ford is the best built truck. A million people a year likewise
agree.
>
>
> I prefer Chevy, but I think the quality data is pretty similar between

> Ford and Chevy with respect to full-size trucks. I believe that
> Toyota's are better built that both, but they don't yet have a truly
> full-size truck. I expect they will at some point and the same thing
as
> happened to cars in the 80s will then happen to trucks.
>
> Ford F-150 sales are off pace considerably through the first 6 months
of
> the year at 400,000.

And if you add GMC truck sales to Chevy truck sales (they are virtually
identical other than cosmetics), GM sells more half-ton pickups than
Ford.

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Jim Carter wrote:

> I used to believe the same thing about GMC and Chevy, only cosmetic
> differences. But now after owning two GMC Sierras I am beginning to
> suspect some other differences. Even though the use hasn't changed, the
> GMCs require about 1/2 the maintenance as the Chevys did. Simple things
> like sticky throttles, intermittent switches, loose exhaust brackets,
> etc. don't seem to be plaguing our GMCs like they did the Chevy variant.
>
> My wife says they "sound" different too; "tighter and more
> put-together".

Just shows you the games our mind can play one us. They are made in the
same plant. http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/070207.html

I believe they are actually made on the same production line, but the
same people, with just a few parts (grill, some interior parts, etc.)
being different, but I can't find any proof of that at the moment. The
engines and components are identical so any difference you are seeing is
a sample difference, not a Chevy vs. GMC difference.

Matt

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Whiting ]
> Posted At: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:26 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.piloting
> Conversation: Manufacturing Quality
> Subject: Re: Manufacturing Quality
>
> Jim Carter wrote:
>
> > I used to believe the same thing about GMC and Chevy, only cosmetic
> > differences. But now after owning two GMC Sierras I am beginning to
> > suspect some other differences. Even though the use hasn't changed,
the
> > GMCs require about 1/2 the maintenance as the Chevys did. Simple
things
> > like sticky throttles, intermittent switches, loose exhaust
brackets,
> > etc. don't seem to be plaguing our GMCs like they did the Chevy
variant.
> >
> > My wife says they "sound" different too; "tighter and more
> > put-together".
>
> Just shows you the games our mind can play one us. They are made in
the
> same plant. http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/070207.html
>
> I believe they are actually made on the same production line, but the
> same people, with just a few parts (grill, some interior parts, etc.)
> being different, but I can't find any proof of that at the moment.
The
> engines and components are identical so any difference you are seeing
is
> a sample difference, not a Chevy vs. GMC difference.
>
> Matt

Maybe as time goes on they are getting a little more careful and have
learned a few things. Could be the Chevys and GMCs are not completely
identical mechanically and operationally.

[john smith]

I posted an question about airplanes and all you guys want to talk about
are your old pickup trucks!

[Morgans[_3_]]

"Jim Carter" > wrote

> Maybe as time goes on they are getting a little more careful and have
> learned a few things. Could be the Chevys and GMCs are not completely
> identical mechanically and operationally.


YOU DIDN'T EVEN LISTEN TO HIM, DID YOU????

Off the same line means that one is a GMC, then the next two are Chevy. Do
you suppose the workers look at the ticket and say to one another, "Hey AL,
let's try and get this one right, and be a little more careful, not like
that last one we put together for GMC."

The more expensive brand has a different sticker put on parts, or a
different style trim. Oh, that's right, the more expensive one will have
more sound deadening insulation added, and more options included as
standard. THAT would make it "sound tighter" wouldn't it.

I hate ignorance.
--
Jim in NC

[Matt Whiting]

Jim Carter wrote:

>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Matt Whiting ]
>>Posted At: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:26 PM
>>Posted To: rec.aviation.piloting
>>Conversation: Manufacturing Quality
>>Subject: Re: Manufacturing Quality
>>
>>Jim Carter wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I used to believe the same thing about GMC and Chevy, only cosmetic
>>>differences. But now after owning two GMC Sierras I am beginning to
>>>suspect some other differences. Even though the use hasn't changed,
>
> the
>
>>>GMCs require about 1/2 the maintenance as the Chevys did. Simple
>
> things
>
>>>like sticky throttles, intermittent switches, loose exhaust
>
> brackets,
>
>>>etc. don't seem to be plaguing our GMCs like they did the Chevy
>
> variant.
>
>>>My wife says they "sound" different too; "tighter and more
>>>put-together".
>>
>>Just shows you the games our mind can play one us. They are made in
>
> the
>
>>same plant. http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/070207.html
>>
>>I believe they are actually made on the same production line, but the
>>same people, with just a few parts (grill, some interior parts, etc.)
>>being different, but I can't find any proof of that at the moment.
>
> The
>
>>engines and components are identical so any difference you are seeing
>
> is
>
>>a sample difference, not a Chevy vs. GMC difference.
>>
>>Matt
>
>
> Maybe as time goes on they are getting a little more careful and have
> learned a few things. Could be the Chevys and GMCs are not completely
> identical mechanically and operationally.

If they are made the way I think they are made, it would be pretty hard
for them to be different fundamentally. I'd like to have someone who
can speak authoritatively jump in here, but I was told years ago by a GM
engineer that Chevy vs. GMC was treated just like AC vs. not AC. It is
a manufacturing option that is selected as the vehicle moves down the
assembly line.

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

john smith wrote:

> I posted an question about airplanes and all you guys want to talk about
> are your old pickup trucks!

How do you think we get ourselves and things like mogas to the airport! :-)

Matt

[john smith]

In article >,
Matt Whiting > wrote:

> Jim Carter wrote:
>
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Matt Whiting ]
> >>Posted At: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:26 PM
> >>Posted To: rec.aviation.piloting
> >>Conversation: Manufacturing Quality
> >>Subject: Re: Manufacturing Quality
> >>
> >>Jim Carter wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I used to believe the same thing about GMC and Chevy, only cosmetic
> >>>differences. But now after owning two GMC Sierras I am beginning to
> >>>suspect some other differences. Even though the use hasn't changed,
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>GMCs require about 1/2 the maintenance as the Chevys did. Simple
> >
> > things
> >
> >>>like sticky throttles, intermittent switches, loose exhaust
> >
> > brackets,
> >
> >>>etc. don't seem to be plaguing our GMCs like they did the Chevy
> >
> > variant.
> >
> >>>My wife says they "sound" different too; "tighter and more
> >>>put-together".
> >>
> >>Just shows you the games our mind can play one us. They are made in
> >
> > the
> >
> >>same plant. http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/070207.html
> >>
> >>I believe they are actually made on the same production line, but the
> >>same people, with just a few parts (grill, some interior parts, etc.)
> >>being different, but I can't find any proof of that at the moment.
> >
> > The
> >
> >>engines and components are identical so any difference you are seeing
> >
> > is
> >
> >>a sample difference, not a Chevy vs. GMC difference.
> >>
> >>Matt
> >
> >
> > Maybe as time goes on they are getting a little more careful and have
> > learned a few things. Could be the Chevys and GMCs are not completely
> > identical mechanically and operationally.
>
> If they are made the way I think they are made, it would be pretty hard
> for them to be different fundamentally. I'd like to have someone who
> can speak authoritatively jump in here, but I was told years ago by a GM
> engineer that Chevy vs. GMC was treated just like AC vs. not AC. It is
> a manufacturing option that is selected as the vehicle moves down the
> assembly line.

I built Firebird's and Camero's for six summers when I was in college.
For each vehicle, there was a sheet of paper that listed all the
details. At the start of each sub assembly, a copy of the sheet was
attached to the support frame. At each station, the worker would check
the list appropriate for the function he/she was performing and supply
the correct part to the assembly. There as an inspector and utility
man/woman at various points on the line to correct any incorrect
assemblies.

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Morgans ]
> Posted At: Sunday, August 06, 2006 8:38 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.piloting
> Conversation: Manufacturing Quality
> Subject: Re: Manufacturing Quality
>
>
> "Jim Carter" > wrote
>
> > Maybe as time goes on they are getting a little more careful and
have
> > learned a few things. Could be the Chevys and GMCs are not
completely
> > identical mechanically and operationally.
>
>
> YOU DIDN'T EVEN LISTEN TO HIM, DID YOU????
>
> Off the same line means that one is a GMC, then the next two are
Chevy.
> Do
> you suppose the workers look at the ticket and say to one another,
"Hey
> AL,
> let's try and get this one right, and be a little more careful, not
like
> that last one we put together for GMC."
>
....
> I hate ignorance.
> --
> Jim in NC

Gosh, I didn't mean to upset you so Jim. I should have written "Could be
the Chevys and GMCs are completely identical mechanically and
operationally.

Ignorance maybe, but probably a case of not typing exactly what one's
thinking as occasionally happens to some of us.

[rocky]

>
> I believe they are actually made on the same production line, but the
> same people, with just a few parts (grill, some interior parts, etc.)
> being different, but I can't find any proof of that at the moment. The
> engines and components are identical so any difference you are seeing is
> a sample difference, not a Chevy vs. GMC difference.
>
> Matt

I think they muse be on the same line. I have bought 3 GMS's, 2 sierras
and one 5500 in the past 4 years, still have i P/U and the 5500.
the P/U got delivered to me with a left door logo from chevy and the
rest was GME. The 5500 truck came with Chevy branded keys but is a GMC.
My bet is they came from the same line just lazy assemblers!

[Dave Stadt]

"Jim Carter" > wrote in message
news:001a01c6b9bb$e0756250$4001a8c0@omnibook6100.. .
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Matt Whiting ]
>> Posted At: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:26 PM
>> Posted To: rec.aviation.piloting
>> Conversation: Manufacturing Quality
>> Subject: Re: Manufacturing Quality
>>
>> Jim Carter wrote:
>>
>> > I used to believe the same thing about GMC and Chevy, only cosmetic
>> > differences. But now after owning two GMC Sierras I am beginning to
>> > suspect some other differences. Even though the use hasn't changed,
> the
>> > GMCs require about 1/2 the maintenance as the Chevys did. Simple
> things
>> > like sticky throttles, intermittent switches, loose exhaust
> brackets,
>> > etc. don't seem to be plaguing our GMCs like they did the Chevy
> variant.
>> >
>> > My wife says they "sound" different too; "tighter and more
>> > put-together".
>>
>> Just shows you the games our mind can play one us. They are made in
> the
>> same plant. http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/070207.html
>>
>> I believe they are actually made on the same production line, but the
>> same people, with just a few parts (grill, some interior parts, etc.)
>> being different, but I can't find any proof of that at the moment.
> The
>> engines and components are identical so any difference you are seeing
> is
>> a sample difference, not a Chevy vs. GMC difference.
>>
>> Matt
>
> Maybe as time goes on they are getting a little more careful and have
> learned a few things. Could be the Chevys and GMCs are not completely
> identical mechanically and operationally.


They come down the same assembly line. The ONLY difference is one gets a
Chevy badge the next a GMC badge.

[Newps]

Dave Stadt wrote:


>
>
> They come down the same assembly line. The ONLY difference is one gets a
> Chevy badge the next a GMC badge.
>

Sometimes both.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"john smith" > wrote in message
news:jsmith-BBC896.22051306082006@network-065-024-007->
> I built Firebird's and Camero's for six summers when I was in college.
> For each vehicle, there was a sheet of paper that listed all the
> details. At the start of each sub assembly, a copy of the sheet was
> attached to the support frame. At each station, the worker would check
> the list appropriate for the function he/she was performing and supply
> the correct part to the assembly. There as an inspector and utility
> man/woman at various points on the line to correct any incorrect
> assemblies.

To add a data point here I was at a GMC dealership several years ago when a
friend was looking for a small SUV. We were looking at a GMC Jimmy and on
the left side of the truck that's what it said it was. On the right side it
said S-10 (Chevy's version of the same thing.)

[Matt Whiting]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> news:jsmith-BBC896.22051306082006@network-065-024-007->
>
>>I built Firebird's and Camero's for six summers when I was in college.
>>For each vehicle, there was a sheet of paper that listed all the
>>details. At the start of each sub assembly, a copy of the sheet was
>>attached to the support frame. At each station, the worker would check
>>the list appropriate for the function he/she was performing and supply
>>the correct part to the assembly. There as an inspector and utility
>>man/woman at various points on the line to correct any incorrect
>>assemblies.
>
>
> To add a data point here I was at a GMC dealership several years ago when a
> friend was looking for a small SUV. We were looking at a GMC Jimmy and on
> the left side of the truck that's what it said it was. On the right side it
> said S-10 (Chevy's version of the same thing.)

I guess the left side was the upscale and higher quality side then, eh? :-)

Matt

[john smith]

In article >,
Matt Whiting > wrote:

> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> > "john smith" > wrote in message
> > news:jsmith-BBC896.22051306082006@network-065-024-007->
> >
> >>I built Firebird's and Camero's for six summers when I was in college.
> >>For each vehicle, there was a sheet of paper that listed all the
> >>details. At the start of each sub assembly, a copy of the sheet was
> >>attached to the support frame. At each station, the worker would check
> >>the list appropriate for the function he/she was performing and supply
> >>the correct part to the assembly. There as an inspector and utility
> >>man/woman at various points on the line to correct any incorrect
> >>assemblies.
> >
> >
> > To add a data point here I was at a GMC dealership several years ago when a
> > friend was looking for a small SUV. We were looking at a GMC Jimmy and on
> > the left side of the truck that's what it said it was. On the right side it
> > said S-10 (Chevy's version of the same thing.)
>
> I guess the left side was the upscale and higher quality side then, eh? :-)

Nope, just charge more for it.
GM used to use the same motor for electric windows across the product
lines. Which vehicle it went in determined how much it cost.

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Newps" wrote)
> Sometimes both.


I owned a 1984 Datsun/Nissan ...depended where on the car you were looking.


Montblack

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Newps" wrote)
>> Sometimes both.
>
>
> I owned a 1984 Datsun/Nissan ...depended where on the car you were looking.

I remember that! My wife had a 1984 300ZX with both names on it.