Buying prop strike engine

[[email protected]]

http://www.whiteindustries.com/

White Industries lists engines with flange runout. What does flange
runout tell about the engine?

It seems some prop strike engines have a larger flange runout reading
than others, and the larger the flange runout, the lower the price.
Why?

Thanks.

[Newps]

Flange runout means absolutely nothing. Especially on Lycomings.
Because of the meatllurgy involved they don't bend, they break.

wrote:
> http://www.whiteindustries.com/
>
> White Industries lists engines with flange runout. What does flange
> runout tell about the engine?
>
> It seems some prop strike engines have a larger flange runout reading
> than others, and the larger the flange runout, the lower the price.
> Why?
>
> Thanks.
>

[[email protected]]

> > White Industries lists engines with flange runout. What does flange
> > runout tell about the engine?
> >
> > It seems some prop strike engines have a larger flange runout reading
> > than others, and the larger the flange runout, the lower the price.
> > Why?


The higher the runout number, the more damage there is to either the
crank or the case. It depends on the exact engine series as to how bad
a number you can tolorate before the repair costs are closing in on
replacement costs.

For me, it's not worth dealing with an engine that has had a prop
strike unless one of two things are known:

1: The prop strike was with a wooden prop or

2: The case has already been through a complete inspection and the shop
is able to guarantee that the case has no damage, visable or hidden,
and that the case will meet or beat the table of limitations the
manufacturer has for that engine.

Craig C.

[Lou]

If your going to rebuild anyway, take a look at these.
http://www.airboattrader.com/PartsForSale.htm
Lou

[Guy Byars]

Great site, I especially like the 8 cylinder Contential:

http://www.airboattrader.com/PartsF1420.jpg



"Lou" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> If your going to rebuild anyway, take a look at these.
> http://www.airboattrader.com/PartsForSale.htm
> Lou
>

[John_F]

Simple, More runout means that the crankshaft is bent more. Bent
more means it is more likely to be cracked and the prop fly off some
day.

On 6 Aug 2006 16:53:15 -0700, "
> wrote:

>http://www.whiteindustries.com/
>
>White Industries lists engines with flange runout. What does flange
>runout tell about the engine?
>
>It seems some prop strike engines have a larger flange runout reading
>than others, and the larger the flange runout, the lower the price.
>Why?
>
>Thanks.

[Michelle P]

wrote:
> http://www.whiteindustries.com/
>
> White Industries lists engines with flange runout. What does flange
> runout tell about the engine?
>
> It seems some prop strike engines have a larger flange runout reading
> than others, and the larger the flange runout, the lower the price.
> Why?
>
> Thanks.
>
The run out will tell you how badly the flange is bent. Thats it. In
order to tell how much damaged there was you need to know several
things: What was the power setting when the engine had it's strike?,
What kind of prop?, What did it hit? Was it a sudden stop or a slow down?
Then you need to tear it down. Throw away the crank. have the case
throughly inspected, have all of the other moving parts throughly inspected.

Personally I would only buy one as a core exchange if the manufacturer
will take it.

Michelle

[abripl[_1_]]

> 1: The prop strike was with a wooden prop or...

Some composite props, like IVO, break easy on impact. I had a prop
strike with IVO and had the crank magnafluxed. No flange runout or
cracks were found. I have a Franklin 6A350 engine (are they more
solid?).. It's the aluminum rigid props that are crank killers.
----------------------------------------------------------------
SQ2000 canard http://www.abri.com/sq2000

[joe]

Then you need to tear it down.????
If its a lycoming you need to tear it down regardless..... AD NOTE
joe




Michelle P wrote:
> wrote:
> > http://www.whiteindustries.com/
> >
> > White Industries lists engines with flange runout. What does flange
> > runout tell about the engine?
> >
> > It seems some prop strike engines have a larger flange runout reading
> > than others, and the larger the flange runout, the lower the price.
> > Why?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> The run out will tell you how badly the flange is bent. Thats it. In
> order to tell how much damaged there was you need to know several
> things: What was the power setting when the engine had it's strike?,
> What kind of prop?, What did it hit? Was it a sudden stop or a slow down?
> Then you need to tear it down. Throw away the crank. have the case
> throughly inspected, have all of the other moving parts throughly inspected.
>
> Personally I would only buy one as a core exchange if the manufacturer
> will take it.
>
> Michelle

[Ron Natalie]

joe wrote:
> Then you need to tear it down.????
> If its a lycoming you need to tear it down regardless..... AD NOTE
> joe
>
It's only a service bulletin, not an AD.
Both Continental and Lycoming consider a teardown
mandatory after a prop strike.

[joe]

no there is an AD note 2004 -10-14 i think that requires it

A few years back lycoming redefined what is a prop strike.....
A manufactururer SB does not make anything mandatory for a part 91
operator. An AD note does.......


Ron Natalie wrote:
> joe wrote:
> > Then you need to tear it down.????
> > If its a lycoming you need to tear it down regardless..... AD NOTE
> > joe
> >
> It's only a service bulletin, not an AD.
> Both Continental and Lycoming consider a teardown
> mandatory after a prop strike.

[Michelle P]

joe wrote:
> no there is an AD note 2004 -10-14 i think that requires it
>
> A few years back lycoming redefined what is a prop strike.....
> A manufactururer SB does not make anything mandatory for a part 91
> operator. An AD note does.......
>
>
> Ron Natalie wrote:
>
>>joe wrote:
>>
>>>Then you need to tear it down.????
>>>If its a lycoming you need to tear it down regardless..... AD NOTE
>>>joe
>>>
>>
>>It's only a service bulletin, not an AD.
>>Both Continental and Lycoming consider a teardown
>>mandatory after a prop strike.
>
>
Read the Lycoming AD/SB carefully. Just because you hit something does
not mean you have to do a tear down.

Michelle A&P (having read the thing more than once in the last year)

[[email protected]]

abripl wrote:
> > 1: The prop strike was with a wooden prop or...
>
> Some composite props, like IVO, break easy on impact. I had a prop
> strike with IVO and had the crank magnafluxed. No flange runout or
> cracks were found. I have a Franklin 6A350 engine (are they more
> solid?).. It's the aluminum rigid props that are crank killers.

You're taking your chances either way. A few years ago I met a guy
at a Montana backcountry strip that was taking his wings off and
putting his Champ on a flatbed truck. Seems his crank snapped in
flight and he was lucky enough to be within gliding distance of a
usable strip. He had taxied his plane into a snowbank a few months
earlier. It stopped the engine, but hadn't damaged the prop, so he
assumed everything was OK. That assumption nearly killed him and his
passenger a few months later.

Prop damage or flange runout doesn't tell you anything about possible
cracks in the crank.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[abripl[_1_]]

If he hadn't run into the snow bank is there a guarantee that the crank
was OK? Aren't there faulty cranks for other reasons and it could have
been a coincidence? Also did he have an aluminum prop?

>...............................Seems his crank snapped in
> flight and he was lucky enough to be within gliding distance of a
> usable strip. He had taxied his plane into a snowbank a few months
> earlier. It stopped the engine, but hadn't damaged the prop, so he
> assumed everything was OK. That assumption nearly killed him and his
> passenger a few months later.
> ...

[[email protected]]

abripl wrote:
> If he hadn't run into the snow bank is there a guarantee that the crank
> was OK? Aren't there faulty cranks for other reasons and it could have
> been a coincidence? Also did he have an aluminum prop?
>

Wood prop. There is no guarantee that he didn't have a faulty crank.
Then again, the engine had run fine for decades and the crankshaft
snapped less than 25 hrs.after the snow bank stoppage. Feel free to
assume that it was a coincidence.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Roger (K8RI)]

On 10 Aug 2006 06:46:08 -0700, "abripl" >
wrote:

>
>If he hadn't run into the snow bank is there a guarantee that the crank
>was OK? Aren't there faulty cranks for other reasons and it could have
>been a coincidence? Also did he have an aluminum prop?
>
As to the thread subject a prop strike now days is anything that
requires more than a *minor* prop dressing. So technically a prop
strike engine stretches the gauntlet from "so what" to the "don't go
near it".

We think of snow and snow banks as being soft. I live in Michigan and
we have some snowbanks that'd support a truck and are as hard as
rocks. Nor does the snow have to be packed to get that way.

After a fresh snow I've driven *through* snow banks that were higher
than the hood of my car without hardly slowing down. I've also hit
some relatively small ones (before air bags) that resulted in me
getting out to make sure the front end of the car was OK. Being much
older and hopefully smarter, I now consider what might be hiding in
those drifts.

>>...............................Seems his crank snapped in
>> flight and he was lucky enough to be within gliding distance of a
>> usable strip. He had taxied his plane into a snowbank a few months
>> earlier. It stopped the engine, but hadn't damaged the prop, so he

A sudden stoppage can be every bit as damaging as one that kills the
prop. Sometimes even worse.

>> assumed everything was OK. That assumption nearly killed him and his
>> passenger a few months later.

I've had a sudden and complete engine failure in the Deb. I was able
to put it down on the airport. I never considered that being nearly
killed even though had it quit 10 seconds later I'd have ended up in
the woods.

I might consider an engine failure followed by an uneventful forced
landing as an expensive inconvenience and ahead of time I'd have
considered it *possibly* life threatening, but if all goes well I'd
not say they were nearly killed. Certainly he put them in what might
have been a life threatening situation un-necessarily.

Most off field landings are uneventful. Exciting, but uneventful.

OTOH you never know until the dust settles.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>> ...
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Larry]

Michelle: I agree with your assessment. Nose gear failure with "power
off" with consequence of minor prop bend may not require a tear down.
Contact surface (scrape)on the prop will help determine what stresses
were on the crank per my mechanic.

Larry
Michelle P wrote:
> joe wrote:
> > no there is an AD note 2004 -10-14 i think that requires it
> >
> > A few years back lycoming redefined what is a prop strike.....
> > A manufactururer SB does not make anything mandatory for a part 91
> > operator. An AD note does.......
> >
> >
> > Ron Natalie wrote:
> >
> >>joe wrote:
> >>
> >>>Then you need to tear it down.????
> >>>If its a lycoming you need to tear it down regardless..... AD NOTE
> >>>joe
> >>>
> >>
> >>It's only a service bulletin, not an AD.
> >>Both Continental and Lycoming consider a teardown
> >>mandatory after a prop strike.
> >
> >
> Read the Lycoming AD/SB carefully. Just because you hit something does
> not mean you have to do a tear down.
>
> Michelle A&P (having read the thing more than once in the last year)

[Roger[_4_]]

On 8 Aug 2006 18:04:34 -0700, "joe" > wrote:

>no there is an AD note 2004 -10-14 i think that requires it
>
>A few years back lycoming redefined what is a prop strike.....
>A manufactururer SB does not make anything mandatory for a part 91
>operator. An AD note does.......

Even if it were only and SB which is not "officially" mandatory, let's
say you have a prop strike. Every thing looks good, you replace or
straighten the prop and the thing runs well. Even the run out looks
good. About 50 or 100 hours later the crank lets go and you shred the
thing in an off field landing although no one gets hurt. What does
your insurance company say if they find out you have not complied with
that particular SB?

Will they pay and say nothing? Will they pay and complain? Will they
raise your rates? Will they let your renew at renewal time?

Who knows?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
>
>Ron Natalie wrote:
>> joe wrote:
>> > Then you need to tear it down.????
>> > If its a lycoming you need to tear it down regardless..... AD NOTE
>> > joe
>> >
>> It's only a service bulletin, not an AD.
>> Both Continental and Lycoming consider a teardown
>> mandatory after a prop strike.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Dave Stadt]

"Roger" > wrote in message
...
> On 8 Aug 2006 18:04:34 -0700, "joe" > wrote:
>
>>no there is an AD note 2004 -10-14 i think that requires it
>>
>>A few years back lycoming redefined what is a prop strike.....
>>A manufactururer SB does not make anything mandatory for a part 91
>>operator. An AD note does.......
>
> Even if it were only and SB which is not "officially" mandatory, let's
> say you have a prop strike. Every thing looks good, you replace or
> straighten the prop and the thing runs well. Even the run out looks
> good. About 50 or 100 hours later the crank lets go and you shred the
> thing in an off field landing although no one gets hurt. What does
> your insurance company say if they find out you have not complied with
> that particular SB?
>
> Will they pay and say nothing? Will they pay and complain? Will they
> raise your rates? Will they let your renew at renewal time?
>
> Who knows?

They will pay. Happened to a Cherokee around here and no questions were
asked.

>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>>
>>
>>Ron Natalie wrote:
>>> joe wrote:
>>> > Then you need to tear it down.????
>>> > If its a lycoming you need to tear it down regardless..... AD NOTE
>>> > joe
>>> >
>>> It's only a service bulletin, not an AD.
>>> Both Continental and Lycoming consider a teardown
>>> mandatory after a prop strike.
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com