Avgas Coming Down?

[Jon Kraus]

Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
$2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.

On the other hand at my home base I just filled up for a trip and still
are paying $4.50 a gallon. Has anyone noticed if Avgas is coming down
too? Maybe it has to do with not making 100ll as often as Mogas. What
say you?

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP

[ktbr]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> $2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>
> On the other hand at my home base I just filled up for a trip and still
> are paying $4.50 a gallon. Has anyone noticed if Avgas is coming down
> too? Maybe it has to do with not making 100ll as often as Mogas. What
> say you?

While I'm sure everybody's Avgas fuel quotes are going down (ours are)
you still have the fuel in the tank that you paid big $$$ for that has
to go. There are not that many airports (if any) that go through 10K
gallons of 100LL as quick as a typical gas station.

We usually go through a tanker load per month. Some of the higher
priced places may end up sitting on that high $$$ stuff for months
because piston guys are avoiding them like the plague.

[Ross Richardson[_2_]]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> $2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>
> On the other hand at my home base I just filled up for a trip and still
> are paying $4.50 a gallon. Has anyone noticed if Avgas is coming down
> too? Maybe it has to do with not making 100ll as often as Mogas. What
> say you?
>
> Jon Kraus
> '79 Mooney 201
> 4443H @ UMP
Our is at $3.61/gal and the FBO said it might go down by $0.20/gal when
the next load arrives this week. Also on the news this morning the local
radio station was reporting that autogas could be going down to
$2.00/gal after the holidays.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Kingfish]

ktbr wrote:
> Jon Kraus wrote:
> > Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> > $2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
> >
> > On the other hand at my home base I just filled up for a trip and still
> > are paying $4.50 a gallon. Has anyone noticed if Avgas is coming down
> > too? Maybe it has to do with not making 100ll as often as Mogas. What
> > say you?
>
> While I'm sure everybody's Avgas fuel quotes are going down (ours are)
> you still have the fuel in the tank that you paid big $$$ for that has
> to go. There are not that many airports (if any) that go through 10K
> gallons of 100LL as quick as a typical gas station.
>

I heard on the radio this AM industry analysts are predicting gas
prices to be "closer to $2 than $3 by Thanksgiving". That might be good
news for LL consumers, but I'm too cynical to think the boutique fuel
market will respond as quickly, if at all, to a drop in mogas prices. I
am curious about what's behind this predicted drop though - reduced
demand after the summer is one thing, but this seems more like a market
adjustment IMO.

Kingfish
Turbine analyst *NOT* a fuel analyst

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Locally ( in central Wisconsin), there is a historic and fairly accurate
correlation between the mogas pump price and the 100LL wholesale price when
prices are stable. Even though the taxes and the markups are different,
it's been easy to figure out what the 100LL price "should" be.

Example: If mogas at the pumps is 2.98, the wholesale 100LL tanker load
price will be around 2.98. Most FBO's prices will be close to $3.98. Our's
is currently $3.90.

This is just something that I've noticed locally and have been able to
determine by talking with the wholesale dealers. If I see a local FBO
charging more than $1 over the mogas pump price, he simply doesn't get my
business.

Jim


"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
. ..
> Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> $2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>
> On the other hand at my home base I just filled up for a trip and still
> are paying $4.50 a gallon. Has anyone noticed if Avgas is coming down
> too? Maybe it has to do with not making 100ll as often as Mogas. What
> say you?
>
> Jon Kraus
> '79 Mooney 201
> 4443H @ UMP

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

My November contract quote for gasoline is $2.616 if I wanted to book it
now. This is the lowest month from now until May 2007... IF I wanted to
book it now. I haven't contracted any fuel and I've been able to buy it
about 10 cents cheaper than the forward contract price... so far.
Jim

"Kingfish" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> ktbr wrote:
> > Jon Kraus wrote:
> > > Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> > > $2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
> > >
> > > On the other hand at my home base I just filled up for a trip and
still
> > > are paying $4.50 a gallon. Has anyone noticed if Avgas is coming down
> > > too? Maybe it has to do with not making 100ll as often as Mogas.
What
> > > say you?
> >
> > While I'm sure everybody's Avgas fuel quotes are going down (ours are)
> > you still have the fuel in the tank that you paid big $$$ for that has
> > to go. There are not that many airports (if any) that go through 10K
> > gallons of 100LL as quick as a typical gas station.
> >
>
> I heard on the radio this AM industry analysts are predicting gas
> prices to be "closer to $2 than $3 by Thanksgiving". That might be good
> news for LL consumers, but I'm too cynical to think the boutique fuel
> market will respond as quickly, if at all, to a drop in mogas prices. I
> am curious about what's behind this predicted drop though - reduced
> demand after the summer is one thing, but this seems more like a market
> adjustment IMO.
>
> Kingfish
> Turbine analyst *NOT* a fuel analyst
>

[Sylvain]

ktbr wrote:

> While I'm sure everybody's Avgas fuel quotes are going down (ours are)
> you still have the fuel in the tank that you paid big $$$ for that has
> to go.

it's funny how fast these tanks get emptied and promptly replaced with
new priced fuel when the prices are going *up*...

--Sylvain

[Jose[_1_]]

> it's funny how fast these tanks get emptied and promptly replaced with
> new priced fuel when the prices are going *up*...

Conspiracy is attractive, but so are low fuel prices. Maybe that causes
the demand?

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Ron Lee]

Jon Kraus > wrote:

>Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
>$2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.

That is just plain wrong. I heard a news report that for the second
week in a row gas prices dropped eight cents. Here in CO I just saw
the first drop in many weeks...2 cents. Still $2.93 for the cheapest
unleaded.

100LL around $4.10

Ron Lee

[Dave Butler[_1_]]

Ron Lee wrote:
> Jon Kraus > wrote:
>
>
>>Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
>>$2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>
>
> That is just plain wrong.

Really? I have a feeling Jon knows better what's happening in Indy than you.
When I want to know what's happening in CO, I'll ask you.

> I heard a news report that for the second
> week in a row gas prices dropped eight cents. Here in CO I just saw
> the first drop in many weeks...2 cents. Still $2.93 for the cheapest
> unleaded.

[ktbr]

Sylvain wrote:
> it's funny how fast these tanks get emptied and promptly replaced with
> new priced fuel when the prices are going *up*...

any business (that plans on staying in business) is going to be
more sensitive to rising prices on a comodity that he must keep
stocked. If you don't plan sifficiently to cover replacment cost
you may not have enough money to pay for the next tanker load.

This didn;t used to be such a problem in the days when prices
went up a few cents here and there. But when prices can end up
being .50, .80 or even 1.00 per gallon higher in a month or two
(like last year) your next tanker load might cost you $8000.00
more than the last one and you better have the money to pay for it

Prices at the pump will start going down a lot when retailers
feel they aren't gonna get hit bad by the next spike.

[Ron Lee]

Dave Butler > wrote:

>Ron Lee wrote:
>> Jon Kraus > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
>>>$2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>>
>>
>> That is just plain wrong.
>
>Really? I have a feeling Jon knows better what's happening in Indy than you.
>When I want to know what's happening in CO, I'll ask you.
>
>> I heard a news report that for the second
>> week in a row gas prices dropped eight cents. Here in CO I just saw
>> the first drop in many weeks...2 cents. Still $2.93 for the cheapest
>> unleaded.

Dave, "wrong" as in "not fair/right/equitable" as opposed to
"inaccurate"

It was a joke big guy.

Ron Lee

[Ross Richardson[_2_]]

Kingfish wrote:
> ktbr wrote:
>
>>Jon Kraus wrote:
>>
>>>Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
>>>$2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>>>
>>>On the other hand at my home base I just filled up for a trip and still
>>>are paying $4.50 a gallon. Has anyone noticed if Avgas is coming down
>>>too? Maybe it has to do with not making 100ll as often as Mogas. What
>>>say you?
>>
>>While I'm sure everybody's Avgas fuel quotes are going down (ours are)
>>you still have the fuel in the tank that you paid big $$$ for that has
>>to go. There are not that many airports (if any) that go through 10K
>>gallons of 100LL as quick as a typical gas station.
>>
>
>
> I heard on the radio this AM industry analysts are predicting gas
> prices to be "closer to $2 than $3 by Thanksgiving". That might be good
> news for LL consumers, but I'm too cynical to think the boutique fuel
> market will respond as quickly, if at all, to a drop in mogas prices. I
> am curious about what's behind this predicted drop though - reduced
> demand after the summer is one thing, but this seems more like a market
> adjustment IMO.
>
> Kingfish
> Turbine analyst *NOT* a fuel analyst
>
That is what this newscast said this morning - the market "overpriced"
itself. Nor sure what that meant. But, if we were gouged then the oil
companies need to refund our money. I know - fat chance.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Aluckyguess[_1_]]

Just paid 4.60 @ kral I only got enough to make the flight to A20 gas was
4.20 there. Mogas in Ca. is still over 3.00. I dont believe you will see gas
at 2 with crude in the $60.00-70.00 range. It would have to drop to 40.

"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
. ..
> Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> $2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>
> On the other hand at my home base I just filled up for a trip and still
> are paying $4.50 a gallon. Has anyone noticed if Avgas is coming down
> too? Maybe it has to do with not making 100ll as often as Mogas. What
> say you?
>
> Jon Kraus
> '79 Mooney 201
> 4443H @ UMP

[Robert M. Gary]

We went from $5.15 down to $5.06 (just last night).

-Robert


Jon Kraus wrote:
> Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> $2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>
> On the other hand at my home base I just filled up for a trip and still
> are paying $4.50 a gallon. Has anyone noticed if Avgas is coming down
> too? Maybe it has to do with not making 100ll as often as Mogas. What
> say you?
>
> Jon Kraus
> '79 Mooney 201
> 4443H @ UMP

[Robert M. Gary]

Ross Richardson wrote:
> Kingfish wrote:
> That is what this newscast said this morning - the market "overpriced"
> itself. Nor sure what that meant. But, if we were gouged then the oil
> companies need to refund our money. I know - fat chance.

A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
to pay. Oil is provided by for-profit companies. Oil prices are held
down by competition. "gouging" implies that either the companies
illegally got together and fixed prices or you don't understand free
market enterprise. If you think the oil companies are making too much
money, switch sides, buy some oil stock and share the profits.

-Robert

[ktbr]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Ross Richardson wrote:
>
>>Kingfish wrote:
>>That is what this newscast said this morning - the market "overpriced"
>>itself. Nor sure what that meant. But, if we were gouged then the oil
>>companies need to refund our money. I know - fat chance.
>
>
> A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
> to pay. Oil is provided by for-profit companies. Oil prices are held
> down by competition. "gouging" implies that either the companies
> illegally got together and fixed prices or you don't understand free
> market enterprise. If you think the oil companies are making too much
> money, switch sides, buy some oil stock and share the profits.
>
> -Robert
>

A very well written response Robert. Its refreshing to know at least
some people actually understand free market economics.

[Ross Richardson[_2_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Ross Richardson wrote:
>
>>Kingfish wrote:
>>That is what this newscast said this morning - the market "overpriced"
>>itself. Nor sure what that meant. But, if we were gouged then the oil
>>companies need to refund our money. I know - fat chance.
>
>
> A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
> to pay. Oil is provided by for-profit companies. Oil prices are held
> down by competition. "gouging" implies that either the companies
> illegally got together and fixed prices or you don't understand free
> market enterprise. If you think the oil companies are making too much
> money, switch sides, buy some oil stock and share the profits.
>
> -Robert
>
Exxon-Mobile has been good to us.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Ken Finney]

"ktbr" > wrote in message
...
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>> Ross Richardson wrote:
>>
>>>Kingfish wrote:
>>>That is what this newscast said this morning - the market "overpriced"
>>>itself. Nor sure what that meant. But, if we were gouged then the oil
>>>companies need to refund our money. I know - fat chance.
>>
>>
>> A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
>> to pay. Oil is provided by for-profit companies. Oil prices are held
>> down by competition. "gouging" implies that either the companies
>> illegally got together and fixed prices or you don't understand free
>> market enterprise. If you think the oil companies are making too much
>> money, switch sides, buy some oil stock and share the profits.
>>
>> -Robert
>>
>
> A very well written response Robert. Its refreshing to know at least
> some people actually understand free market economics.

I know a couple of people that started making their own biodiesel and bought
oil company stock several years ago; they are quite happy.

[ET]

"Ken Finney" > wrote in
:

>
> "ktbr" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>> Ross Richardson wrote:
>>>
>>>>Kingfish wrote:
>>>>That is what this newscast said this morning - the market
>>>>"overpriced" itself. Nor sure what that meant. But, if we were
>>>>gouged then the oil companies need to refund our money. I know - fat
>>>>chance.
>>>
>>>
>>> A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are
>>> willing to pay. Oil is provided by for-profit companies. Oil prices
>>> are held down by competition. "gouging" implies that either the
>>> companies illegally got together and fixed prices or you don't
>>> understand free market enterprise. If you think the oil companies
>>> are making too much money, switch sides, buy some oil stock and
>>> share the profits.
>>>
>>> -Robert
>>>
>>
>> A very well written response Robert. Its refreshing to know at least
>> some people actually understand free market economics.
>
> I know a couple of people that started making their own biodiesel and
> bought oil company stock several years ago; they are quite happy.
>
>
>
>

That's just the thing, (the free market economy) prices rise, the oil
companies get happy, they want to get happier so they produce more, get
more efficient, open capped wells, etc.; Other companies want to be
happy too, so they either get into the oil business, get into the
oilfield business, or come up with some gadget that makes getting the
oil out of the ground cheaper, quicker, and more efficient...

But wait! There are people who have been working on things to "replace"
oil for years, but oil was just too cheap to compete with... But NOW
they can sell the hybrid cars, and the cheap little Chinese cars that
get 40mpg, work on that magic bio-diesel or hydrogen fuel cell project.

Oh, and forgot to mention that people don't drive/fly as much with gas
almost triple the price of 5 years ago....

All of the above ends with an oversupply of the product and falling
prices. Event the price-fixing antics of OPEC cannot keep the price
artificially high forever.

All in all, I agree with $2/gal mogas (or lower) by christmas... when
the cycle will start all over again. But the problem is, the cat is out
of the bag. The oil companies know we will pay $3+ for gas, so the
first sign of an excuse like Katrina and her sisters and watch out!

--
-- ET >:-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

[Robert M. Gary]

Ross Richardson wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Exxon-Mobile has been good to us.

Indeed. They have spent billions on oil exploration to keep our oil
supply available. They also hold a good share of the market and create
competition that keeps prices down. If Exxon were to leave the market,
there is no doubt prices would rise until someone else filled that
void.
Of course, if you don't like the company I'm sure they would not send a
hit-man to your house if you chose to buy your gas elsewhere.

-Robert

[Ross Richardson[_2_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Ross Richardson wrote:
>
>>Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>Exxon-Mobile has been good to us.
>
>
> Indeed. They have spent billions on oil exploration to keep our oil
> supply available. They also hold a good share of the market and create
> competition that keeps prices down. If Exxon were to leave the market,
> there is no doubt prices would rise until someone else filled that
> void.
> Of course, if you don't like the company I'm sure they would not send a
> hit-man to your house if you chose to buy your gas elsewhere.
>
> -Robert
>
I just have some of their stock, I don't necessarily buy exclusively
from them. I have a friend that on principal will not buy Exxon-Mobile.
Just watch whose trucks fill up gas stations. Can be anyone. You never
know really whose gasoline is in the ground.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Newps]

Denver is $2.70.





Ron Lee wrote:
> Jon Kraus > wrote:
>
>
>>Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
>>$2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>
>
> That is just plain wrong. I heard a news report that for the second
> week in a row gas prices dropped eight cents. Here in CO I just saw
> the first drop in many weeks...2 cents. Still $2.93 for the cheapest
> unleaded.
>
> 100LL around $4.10
>
> Ron Lee
>

[Newps]

Oil companies have nothing to do with the price of oil. Oil is a
commodity and is traded as such.



Robert M. Gary wrote:

> Ross Richardson wrote:
>
>>Kingfish wrote:
>>That is what this newscast said this morning - the market "overpriced"
>>itself. Nor sure what that meant. But, if we were gouged then the oil
>>companies need to refund our money. I know - fat chance.
>
>
> A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
> to pay. Oil is provided by for-profit companies. Oil prices are held
> down by competition. "gouging" implies that either the companies
> illegally got together and fixed prices or you don't understand free
> market enterprise. If you think the oil companies are making too much
> money, switch sides, buy some oil stock and share the profits.
>
> -Robert
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Ron Lee" > wrote in message
...
> Jon Kraus > wrote:
>
>>Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
>>$2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>
> That is just plain wrong. I heard a news report that for the second
> week in a row gas prices dropped eight cents. Here in CO I just saw
> the first drop in many weeks...2 cents. Still $2.93 for the cheapest
> unleaded.
>
> 100LL around $4.10
>
> Ron Lee
>


100LL hasn't dropped yet in South Arkansas but over the past 2 weeks we've
seen a .30 drop in Reg UL from 2.99 to 2.69

[Montblack[_1_]]

("ET" wrote)
> Oh, and forgot to mention that people don't drive/fly as much with gas
> almost triple the price of 5 years ago....


In the late 90's, gasoline at the pump was approx 60¢ for a brief spell (not
adding in tax). It just finished running approx $3.00 (not adding in tax)

Gas prices have quintupled, inside of 7 years, from extreme to extreme.


Montblack

[Ron Lee]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
>>>$2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>>
>> That is just plain wrong. I heard a news report that for the second
>> week in a row gas prices dropped eight cents. Here in CO I just saw
>> the first drop in many weeks...2 cents. Still $2.93 for the cheapest
>> unleaded.
>>
>> 100LL around $4.10
>>
>> Ron Lee
>
>100LL hasn't dropped yet in South Arkansas but over the past 2 weeks we've
>seen a .30 drop in Reg UL from 2.99 to 2.69
>
That is my point. You report 30 cents. The first poster 70 cents and
all I have seen is a lousy 2 cent decrease.

Ron Lee

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Could be worse Ron....
You could be buying transport loads for nearly the same as the pump prices!
Unreal.... I've never seen such a price disparity between wholesale terminal
and retail. Everybody here is blaming the supply problems.
Jim


"Ron Lee" > wrote in message
...
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> >>>$2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
> >>
> >> That is just plain wrong. I heard a news report that for the second
> >> week in a row gas prices dropped eight cents. Here in CO I just saw
> >> the first drop in many weeks...2 cents. Still $2.93 for the cheapest
> >> unleaded.
> >>
> >> 100LL around $4.10
> >>
> >> Ron Lee
> >
> >100LL hasn't dropped yet in South Arkansas but over the past 2 weeks
we've
> >seen a .30 drop in Reg UL from 2.99 to 2.69
> >
> That is my point. You report 30 cents. The first poster 70 cents and
> all I have seen is a lousy 2 cent decrease.
>
> Ron Lee

[me[_1_]]

O.K. Robert

I guess your free market theories don't take in to account there illegal
activities huh !




"This story ran on nwitimes.com on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:12 AM CDT

WASHINGTON | Federal investigators are reportedly looking into whether BP
PLC manipulated crude-oil and gasoline markets, the latest in a string of
inquiries into the British oil company."


US investigates gasoline and oil trading by BP
Regulators look for signs company tried to rig market
By Bloomberg News | August 30, 2006

BP P LC, Europe's second-largest oil company, is being investigated by U S
authorities for possible manipulation of the crude-oil and unleaded-gasoline
markets, a spokesman said.

The crude -oil inquiry is the subject of an investigation by the U S
Commodity Futures Trading Commission, which regulates futures markets.




"> A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
> to pay. Oil is provided by for-profit companies. Oil prices are held
> down by competition. "gouging" implies that either the companies
> illegally got together and fixed prices or you don't understand free
> market enterprise. If you think the oil companies are making too much
> money, switch sides, buy some oil stock and share the profits.
>
> -Robert
>

[nrp]

It is a Milton Friedman stated principal that for a commodity in a
capitalistic system, price will to follow replacement cost. This means
going up - and going down.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.owning me > wrote:
> O.K. Robert

> I guess your free market theories don't take in to account there illegal
> activities huh !




> "This story ran on nwitimes.com on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:12 AM CDT

> WASHINGTON | Federal investigators are reportedly looking into whether BP
> PLC manipulated crude-oil and gasoline markets, the latest in a string of
> inquiries into the British oil company."


> US investigates gasoline and oil trading by BP
> Regulators look for signs company tried to rig market
> By Bloomberg News | August 30, 2006

> BP P LC, Europe's second-largest oil company, is being investigated by U S
> authorities for possible manipulation of the crude-oil and unleaded-gasoline
> markets, a spokesman said.

> The crude -oil inquiry is the subject of an investigation by the U S
> Commodity Futures Trading Commission, which regulates futures markets.




> "> A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
> > to pay. Oil is provided by for-profit companies. Oil prices are held
> > down by competition. "gouging" implies that either the companies
> > illegally got together and fixed prices or you don't understand free
> > market enterprise. If you think the oil companies are making too much
> > money, switch sides, buy some oil stock and share the profits.
> >
> > -Robert

So what's your point?

There are illegal activities in every field of human endeavour.

Finding a crook in some business doesn't mean everyone in the business
is a crook.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[OtisWinslow]

I can never recall avgas going down.


"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
. ..
> Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> $2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>
> On the other hand at my home base I just filled up for a trip and still
> are paying $4.50 a gallon. Has anyone noticed if Avgas is coming down
> too? Maybe it has to do with not making 100ll as often as Mogas. What
> say you?
>
> Jon Kraus
> '79 Mooney 201
> 4443H @ UMP

[OtisWinslow]

I think they should all be nationalized.

>
> A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
> to pay.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Great idea. The government never tries to get extra money and is so much
more efficient. Add to that there would be no competition and we would see
gas prices to the point that they'd have to put in pumps that were could for
>$9.99 which would give them an excuse to increase the price some more.


"OtisWinslow" > wrote in message
...
>I think they should all be nationalized.
>
>>
>> A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
>> to pay.
>
>

[Jim Macklin]

The "oil companies" do not control the price of crude oil,
it is a world market product, sold at auction. Those buyers
may be refiners "big oil" who actually make gasoline and jet
fuel, or more often they are speculators who sell on the
spot market. The price of crude goes up and down with every
pipeline attack, revolution in the Congo, terrorist threat.
Like the estate auction, emotion drives the price.
The price of gasoline depends on the supply and cost of
crude, the available refining capacity, the means of
delivery [truck, pipeline, train, ship/barge], the demand,
the weather report and EPA/DOT rules.

The USA needs to build refineries, drill where ever oil is
located, or go back to walking and riding animals. Nuclear
power for cars is a long way away. What other power source
is there?

There is plenty of oil in the ground, oil is not a finite
material, it is produced by the Earth. The "shortage" is
caused by government rules, {can't drill in ANWAR, can't
drill off-shore, can't drill if the rig can be seen}, that
refinery smells bad [they do, but so does a hog or chicken
farm] so we haven't built a totally new refinery in decades
[some have been modernized or expanded].

Adjusted for inflation, gasoline is cheaper today than it
was fifty years ago.

Inflation is caused by the government, they control the
money supply.



"OtisWinslow" > wrote in message
...
|I think they should all be nationalized.
|
| >
| > A responsible oil company should charge you as much as
you are willing
| > to pay.
|
|

[M[_1_]]

Well said. All major oil companies are public companies and everyone
is free to buy their share, or invest indirectly thru energy focused
mutual funds.

Yours truely for example, bought into energy mutual funds in late 2004
and the gain of that investments exceeds the extra money I paid for gas
many, may times.

I never understand why people complain about the oi price gouging.
Just buy their stock and you'll ge gouging yourself :-)

Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
> If you think the oil companies are making too much
> money, switch sides, buy some oil stock and share the profits.
>
> -Robert

[Ron Lee]

"OtisWinslow" > wrote:

>I can never recall avgas going down.
>

I have this year or last.

Ron Lee

[ktbr]

OtisWinslow wrote:

> I can never recall avgas going down.
>
In real dollars it doesn't happen often (like it is now).

In terms of dollars adjusted for inflation, it actually
happened through the 80's and 90's when the price remained
very stable while other stuff was going up.

[Matt Barrow]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("ET" wrote)
>> Oh, and forgot to mention that people don't drive/fly as much with gas
>> almost triple the price of 5 years ago....
>
>
> In the late 90's, gasoline at the pump was approx 60¢ for a brief spell
> (not adding in tax). It just finished running approx $3.00 (not adding in
> tax)
>
> Gas prices have quintupled, inside of 7 years, from extreme to extreme.

From extreme to extreme and back again. Of course, China and India were
buying a tenth of what they do now. Hell, most of the world has developed a
voracious appetite. Capacity here was not as stretched as it is today.

And the US continues to block exploration/extraction here, instead "giving
it to terrorist and environmentalists". Like the old (really old) adage,
America got what it asked for (asked, hell, it threw a wild raving tantrum),
but what they asked for is not what they wanted or expected.

(Somehow my sympathy meter is on the fritz.)

[Matt Barrow]

"me" > wrote in message ...
> O.K. Robert
>
> I guess your free market theories don't take in to account there illegal
> activities huh !

A free market is NOT anarchy.

Get a clue, huh!

[Matt Barrow]

"OtisWinslow" > wrote in message
...
>I think they should all be nationalized.

Oh, that'll do a lot of good!

I used to think you were smart.

>
>>
>> A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
>> to pay.
>
>

[Jose[_1_]]

> There is plenty of oil in the ground, oil is not a finite
> material, it is produced by the Earth.

The rate of production (by the earth) is much less than the rate of
consumption. It's not like growing trees, it's more like harvesting
dinosaurs.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Montblack[_1_]]

("Jose" wrote)
> The rate of production (by the earth) is much less than the rate of
> consumption. It's not like growing trees, it's more like harvesting
> dinosaurs.


Some would disagree:

http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/1130.html
"Abiotic Theory of Oil Formation"

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.07/gold_pr.html
"Fuel's Paradise"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0387985468/102-1225631-3196928?v=glance&n=283155
"The Deep Hot Biosphere" - Thomas Gold


Montblack-gold

[Jose[_1_]]

> Some would disagree...

The three links point to theories by Gold, about formation of oil in the
mantle. "Inorganically" says one - well, where does the carbon come
from? In any case, even if the theories were true (they have yet to be
satisfactorily tested), they don't indicate that oil formation is any
faster than dinosaur speed.

We are using it up at jet speed.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Ross Richardson[_2_]]

100LL at my home airport went from $3.64/gal to $3.05/gal today. Wow,
what a drop.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Tom Conner]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Jose" wrote)
> > The rate of production (by the earth) is much less than the rate of
> > consumption. It's not like growing trees, it's more like harvesting
> > dinosaurs.
>
>
> Some would disagree:
>

Some believe in Intelligent Design, flat earth, and astrology.

[Robert M. Gary]

me wrote:
> O.K. Robert
>
> I guess your free market theories don't take in to account there illegal
> activities huh !
>
>
>
>
> "This story ran on nwitimes.com on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:12 AM CDT
>
> WASHINGTON | Federal investigators are reportedly looking into whether BP
> PLC manipulated crude-oil and gasoline markets, the latest in a string of
> inquiries into the British oil company."

Sounds like a great example of how our country works. The article
starts out with "Federal Investigators are reportedly looking into".
This means we find illegal activity that may hinder the free market, we
investigate, and we put those at fault in jail. What more could you ask
for, Communism?

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> The USA needs to build refineries, drill where ever oil is
> located, or go back to walking and riding animals. Nuclear
> power for cars is a long way away. What other power source
> is there?

Yes. And the end effect of the gov't restricting where oil can be
drilled is higher gas prices. There is a price to be paid for gov't
restrictions. We have to ask if we're willing to pay it. The problem is
that most people don't realize they're paying it.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

I would actually argue that you have a valid point (hard to believe,
huh). As a society we need to decide what role we want gov't to play in
the daily working of society. Some people believe the gov't should take
the responsibility for the primary necessities of life (food, shelter,
fuel) etc. In this system the gov't chooses the prices and allocates
the resources based on need (since the prices are always such that
there is more demand then supply). However, I would submit to you that
examples of such gov'ts (Soviet Union, Cuba, China) have much more
corruption because the system rewards with power those that rise up in
gov't. It also fails to provide incentive for innovation.

The other side is to say the gov't should stay out of my business. Just
provide the things that don't make sense for me to do myself (national
defense, roads, etc). However, even in this world you need a gov't to
ensure people are playing by the fair rules of free market (not price
fixing, etc). I would submit to you that the end result of this system
is a much more efficient allocation of resources, more opportunities
for people to fairly succeed and a higher standard of living since
suppliers are rewarded for producing more products more efficiently.

-Robert


OtisWinslow wrote:
> I think they should all be nationalized.
>
> >
> > A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
> > to pay.

[Jim Macklin]

At the end of WWII the Japanese sent their largest
battleship to defend Okinawa with only enough fuel to make
the trip one-way. We sank it before it got there.
European oil was in limited supply. The US Army Air Corps
bombed the German controlled oil field in Eastern Europe and
the refineries. Germany developed synthetic oil.



"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > The USA needs to build refineries, drill where ever oil
is
| > located, or go back to walking and riding animals.
Nuclear
| > power for cars is a long way away. What other power
source
| > is there?
|
| Yes. And the end effect of the gov't restricting where oil
can be
| drilled is higher gas prices. There is a price to be paid
for gov't
| restrictions. We have to ask if we're willing to pay it.
The problem is
| that most people don't realize they're paying it.
|
| -Robert
|

[GeorgeC]

I worked for an oil company and the distributors borrow oil products from each
other all the time. Every day in fact. When you fill you car, you can't know who
gasoline it was. The borrow back-in-forth so much, that they don't settle up
until the end of the day.

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:38:30 -0500, Ross Richardson > wrote:


>I just have some of their stock, I don't necessarily buy exclusively
>from them. I have a friend that on principal will not buy Exxon-Mobile.
>Just watch whose trucks fill up gas stations. Can be anyone. You never
>know really whose gasoline is in the ground.

GeorgeC

[BTIZ]

we dropped from bouncing between $4.05 and $4.10 to below $3.90 last
weekend.
be interesting to see what the 100LL is this weekend

our mogas is still $2.95

BT, 0L7

"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
. ..
> Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> $2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.
>
> On the other hand at my home base I just filled up for a trip and still
> are paying $4.50 a gallon. Has anyone noticed if Avgas is coming down
> too? Maybe it has to do with not making 100ll as often as Mogas. What
> say you?
>
> Jon Kraus
> '79 Mooney 201
> 4443H @ UMP

[cjcampbell]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> $2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.

The inflation adjusted price will probably drop some. Higher fuel
prices tend to push up the price of everything else that has to be
transported, so in the end fuel tends to hold fairly steady once
adjusted for inflation. OPEC found that out real fast the one time they
tried to hold the USA hostage for fuel: food prices in those countries
soared even more than the price of oil did.

[Matt Barrow]

"GeorgeC" > wrote in message
...
>I worked for an oil company and the distributors borrow oil products from
>each
> other all the time. Every day in fact. When you fill you car, you can't
> know who
> gasoline it was. The borrow back-in-forth so much, that they don't settle
> up
> until the end of the day.
>

As someone already pointed out, oil/gas is a _commodity_.

[Matt Barrow]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> Here in Indianapolis I have seen Mogas go down from $3.20 a gallon to
> $2.50 and it appears that it will keep on dropping.

Some places are more, some are less. How much of the effect is boutique
fuels?

[randall g]

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:20:30 -0400, "me" > wrote:

>O.K. Robert
>
>I guess your free market theories don't take in to account there illegal
>activities huh !
>
>"This story ran on nwitimes.com on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:12 AM CDT
>
>WASHINGTON | Federal investigators are reportedly looking into whether BP
>PLC manipulated crude-oil and gasoline markets, the latest in a string of
>inquiries into the British oil company."


Government and politicians ALWAYS do this when the price of gasoline
fluctuates. I have never heard of them finding anything serious.

[Robert M. Gary]

Jim Macklin wrote:
> At the end of WWII the Japanese sent their largest
> battleship to defend Okinawa with only enough fuel to make
> the trip one-way. We sank it before it got there.
> European oil was in limited supply. The US Army Air Corps
> bombed the German controlled oil field in Eastern Europe and
> the refineries. Germany developed synthetic oil.


If Hitler had had more oil the Russians would speak German.

-Robert

[CriticalMass]

Robert M. Gary wrote:

>A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
>to pay.
>
That makes ZERO sense to me. What if I'm only willing to pay a
nickle/gallon? Their "responsibility" will lead them to just charge me
a nickle? C'mon.

[Newps]

CriticalMass wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>> A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
>> to pay.
>>
> That makes ZERO sense to me. What if I'm only willing to pay a
> nickle/gallon? Their "responsibility" will lead them to just charge me
> a nickle? C'mon.

First off he meant a collective "you". Secondly it's irrelavant as the
oil company does not set the price to begin with.

[Mike Noel]

Paid $3.25/gal for 100LL at Casa Grande, AZ, yesterday. Strange when it
makes your day only paying $81 for 25 gallons of gas!

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

"CriticalMass" > wrote in message
...
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>>A responsible oil company should charge you as much as you are willing
>>to pay.
>>
> That makes ZERO sense to me. What if I'm only willing to pay a
> nickle/gallon? Their "responsibility" will lead them to just charge me a
> nickle? C'mon.

[Margy Natalie]

Mike Noel wrote:
> Paid $3.25/gal for 100LL at Casa Grande, AZ, yesterday. Strange when it
> makes your day only paying $81 for 25 gallons of gas!
>
We paid $4.10 and the line guy told me "wait until the end of next week
if you can to refuel, I'm going to be getting a new load in". I sure
hope it's a lot cheaper!

Margy