The FAA sinks deeper into crap over Kentucky accident

[FUBAR]

Sound Familiar? Let's see!

What has the flying public found out so far about the
Kentucky tragedy?

We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT
staffing at this location. We know the Veteran controller
was being worked like a dog as many "Veteran and
experienced" controllers and technicians are. (While many
incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic or
repair sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management
to meet diversity goals)

The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep
requirements by one hour. We know staffing and funding in
the FAA for critical people like controllers and technicians
is cut short. (All while some contractors swim in FAA tax
gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)

We know however that in the FAA the new priority is
Diversity and Gay groups and Female sensitivity boon doggle
conferences at resort hotels funded by a Feminist controlled
FAA. Those new priority items are funded without a problem
while veteran controllers and technicians work bizarre and
stressful shifts and in many locations are undermanned.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm................

Repeat after me-FAA-Swarm of lawyer sharks-Wallet-Better be
fat-CHAAAAAAAAAAAA-Chinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg!!!


LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - The lone air traffic controller on
duty the morning Comair Flight 5191 crashed had only two
hours of sleep before starting work on the overnight shift,
a federal investigator said Wednesday.

National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman
said the controller had only nine hours off between work
shifts Saturday. That was just enough to meet federal rules,
which require a minimum of eight hours off between shifts,
Hersman said.

"He advised our team that he got approximately two hours of
sleep," Hersman said.

The controller, a 17-year veteran whose name has not been
released publicly, worked from 6:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. on
Saturday. He came back to work at 11:30 p.m. on the same day
to begin an eight-hour overnight shift.

How many more innocent people will die before the FAA
rearranges it's priorities BACK to aviation safety?

How many?

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"FUBAR" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>Sound Familiar? Let's see!
>
> What has the flying public found out so far about the Kentucky tragedy?
>
> We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT staffing at this
> location. We know the Veteran controller was being worked like a dog as
> many "Veteran and experienced" controllers and technicians are.
>

We know that he wasn't being worked like a dog at the time of the accident.


>
> (While many incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic or repair
> sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management to meet diversity
> goals)
>
> The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep requirements
> by one hour.
>

So we know that he was in compliance of orders regarding sleep requirements.
By the way, what are those requirements?


>
> We know staffing and funding in the FAA for critical people like
> controllers and technicians is cut short. (All while some contractors swim
> in FAA tax gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)
>
> We know however that in the FAA the new priority is Diversity and Gay
> groups and Female sensitivity boon doggle conferences at resort hotels
> funded by a Feminist controlled FAA. Those new priority items are funded
> without a problem while veteran controllers and technicians work bizarre
> and stressful shifts and in many locations are undermanned.
>
> Hmmmmmmmmmmm................
>
> Repeat after me-FAA-Swarm of lawyer sharks-Wallet-Better be
> fat-CHAAAAAAAAAAAA-Chinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg!!!
>
>
> LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - The lone air traffic controller on duty the morning
> Comair Flight 5191 crashed had only two hours of sleep before starting
> work on the overnight shift, a federal investigator said Wednesday.
>
> National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman said the
> controller had only nine hours off between work shifts Saturday. That was
> just enough to meet federal rules, which require a minimum of eight hours
> off between shifts, Hersman said.
>
> "He advised our team that he got approximately two hours of sleep,"
> Hersman said.
>
> The controller, a 17-year veteran whose name has not been released
> publicly, worked from 6:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. on Saturday. He came back to
> work at 11:30 p.m. on the same day to begin an eight-hour overnight shift.
>
> How many more innocent people will die before the FAA rearranges it's
> priorities BACK to aviation safety?
>
> How many?
>

Did the controller make any error that contributed to this crash?

[Ron Lee]

FUBAR > wrote:

>Sound Familiar? Let's see!
>
>What has the flying public found out so far about the
>Kentucky tragedy?
>
>We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT
>staffing at this location. We know the Veteran controller
>was being worked like a dog as many "Veteran and
>experienced" controllers and technicians are. (While many
>incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic or
>repair sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management
>to meet diversity goals)
>
>The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep
>requirements by one hour. We know staffing and funding in
>the FAA for critical people like controllers and technicians
>is cut short. (All while some contractors swim in FAA tax
>gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)
..
Delleted fluff

Steven already covered the reasons why your view is flawed.
Bottom line is that there is ZERO evidence that the controller made
the pilots take off the wrong runway. The pilots alone are suspect
IMO. Taxiway painting, runway work, closed taxiway...etc are
irrelevant. They had one useable runway and they missed it.

Ron Lee

[Jim Macklin]

A tower controller's duties do not include watching the only
aircraft moving on the airport and taking off. So whether
he was looking out the window and sitting at a desk doing
the reports does not make the FAA responsible for the crash.
The flight crew is expected to use the available signage and
diagrams to find the correct runway and to verify that the
assigned runway is adequate for the aircraft. Verification
of the runway IS the PIC's job and responsibility.


If the controller cleared two aircraft to land and take-off
on runway 22 and 04 at the same time, then the controller
would be at fault in IMC, but in VFR the controller would be
contributory.

This controller seems to have done his job. The airport,
operated by the city[?], is responsible for the construction
and paint. The Airport operator is required to report
airport surface conditions so the NOTAMS can be up to date.
The airplane dispatchers is required to know and pass on
those NOTAMS and the PIC is required to get those NOTAMS.


"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote
in message
k.net...
|
| "FUBAR" > wrote in message
| . ..
| >
| >Sound Familiar? Let's see!
| >
| > What has the flying public found out so far about the
Kentucky tragedy?
| >
| > We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT
staffing at this
| > location. We know the Veteran controller was being
worked like a dog as
| > many "Veteran and experienced" controllers and
technicians are.
| >
|
| We know that he wasn't being worked like a dog at the time
of the accident.
|
|
| >
| > (While many incompetent FAA employees who can't control
traffic or repair
| > sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management to
meet diversity
| > goals)
| >
| > The controller just missed violating orders regarding
sleep requirements
| > by one hour.
| >
|
| So we know that he was in compliance of orders regarding
sleep requirements.
| By the way, what are those requirements?
|
|
| >
| > We know staffing and funding in the FAA for critical
people like
| > controllers and technicians is cut short. (All while
some contractors swim
| > in FAA tax gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)
| >
| > We know however that in the FAA the new priority is
Diversity and Gay
| > groups and Female sensitivity boon doggle conferences at
resort hotels
| > funded by a Feminist controlled FAA. Those new priority
items are funded
| > without a problem while veteran controllers and
technicians work bizarre
| > and stressful shifts and in many locations are
undermanned.
| >
| > Hmmmmmmmmmmm................
| >
| > Repeat after me-FAA-Swarm of lawyer sharks-Wallet-Better
be
| > fat-CHAAAAAAAAAAAA-Chinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg!!!
| >
| >
| > LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - The lone air traffic controller on
duty the morning
| > Comair Flight 5191 crashed had only two hours of sleep
before starting
| > work on the overnight shift, a federal investigator said
Wednesday.
| >
| > National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie
Hersman said the
| > controller had only nine hours off between work shifts
Saturday. That was
| > just enough to meet federal rules, which require a
minimum of eight hours
| > off between shifts, Hersman said.
| >
| > "He advised our team that he got approximately two hours
of sleep,"
| > Hersman said.
| >
| > The controller, a 17-year veteran whose name has not
been released
| > publicly, worked from 6:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. on
Saturday. He came back to
| > work at 11:30 p.m. on the same day to begin an
eight-hour overnight shift.
| >
| > How many more innocent people will die before the FAA
rearranges it's
| > priorities BACK to aviation safety?
| >
| > How many?
| >
|
| Did the controller make any error that contributed to this
crash?
|
|

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:FvDJg.6478$SZ3.303@dukeread04...
>
> A tower controller's duties do not include watching the only
> aircraft moving on the airport and taking off. So whether
> he was looking out the window and sitting at a desk doing
> the reports does not make the FAA responsible for the crash.
> The flight crew is expected to use the available signage and
> diagrams to find the correct runway and to verify that the
> assigned runway is adequate for the aircraft. Verification
> of the runway IS the PIC's job and responsibility.
>
> If the controller cleared two aircraft to land and take-off
> on runway 22 and 04 at the same time, then the controller
> would be at fault in IMC, but in VFR the controller would be
> contributory.
>
> This controller seems to have done his job. The airport,
> operated by the city[?], is responsible for the construction
> and paint. The Airport operator is required to report
> airport surface conditions so the NOTAMS can be up to date.
> The airplane dispatchers is required to know and pass on
> those NOTAMS and the PIC is required to get those NOTAMS.
>

Correct.

[FUBAR]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "FUBAR" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>Sound Familiar? Let's see!
>>
>>What has the flying public found out so far about the Kentucky tragedy?
>>
>>We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT staffing at this
>>location. We know the Veteran controller was being worked like a dog as
>>many "Veteran and experienced" controllers and technicians are.
>>
>
>
> We know that he wasn't being worked like a dog at the time of the accident.
>
>
>
>>(While many incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic or repair
>>sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management to meet diversity
>>goals)
>>
>>The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep requirements
>>by one hour.
>>
>
>
> So we know that he was in compliance of orders regarding sleep requirements.
> By the way, what are those requirements?
>
>
>
>>We know staffing and funding in the FAA for critical people like
>>controllers and technicians is cut short. (All while some contractors swim
>>in FAA tax gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)
>>
>>We know however that in the FAA the new priority is Diversity and Gay
>>groups and Female sensitivity boon doggle conferences at resort hotels
>>funded by a Feminist controlled FAA. Those new priority items are funded
>>without a problem while veteran controllers and technicians work bizarre
>>and stressful shifts and in many locations are undermanned.
>>
>>Hmmmmmmmmmmm................
>>
>>Repeat after me-FAA-Swarm of lawyer sharks-Wallet-Better be
>>fat-CHAAAAAAAAAAAA-Chinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg!!!
>>
>>
>>LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - The lone air traffic controller on duty the morning
>>Comair Flight 5191 crashed had only two hours of sleep before starting
>>work on the overnight shift, a federal investigator said Wednesday.
>>
>>National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman said the
>>controller had only nine hours off between work shifts Saturday. That was
>>just enough to meet federal rules, which require a minimum of eight hours
>>off between shifts, Hersman said.
>>
>>"He advised our team that he got approximately two hours of sleep,"
>>Hersman said.
>>
>>The controller, a 17-year veteran whose name has not been released
>>publicly, worked from 6:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. on Saturday. He came back to
>>work at 11:30 p.m. on the same day to begin an eight-hour overnight shift.
>>
>>How many more innocent people will die before the FAA rearranges it's
>>priorities BACK to aviation safety?
>>
>>How many?
>>
>
>
> Did the controller make any error that contributed to this crash?
>
>

"Did the controller make any error that contributed to this
crash"? Probably not

Did the FAA make any errors that contributed to this crash? Yes

The FAA violated their own staffing orders for LEX

The FAA orders clearly state you must have two controllers
on duty if you are working the field and Radar approach

End of subject

Lawyers get rich

Read 1997 Guam Korean Air and the fat check the FAA cut

Reason?

The FAA violated their own orders in Guam.

Read it sometime. Quite interesting how far the web of
liability reaches during a commercial airline accident with
fatalities and good lawyers

The web is big and sticky

The FAA is caught now in the web of liability, hung in the
middle with the giant spider of litigation poised to bite
and suck tax money by the gazillions.

By the way, the controller just came off a shift with very
little sleep. He WAS worked like a dog sir. You see this is
common practice now in the FAA as the diversity hiring and
politically correct house of cards the FAA has built since
the Clinton Administration starts to crumble.

As experienced controllers and technicians(Mostly White
Males) work double shifts, back to back shifts and endure
pathetic unqualified management(Mostly Minority and
Female)the old and tired rubber band sometimes stretchs and
snaps. ALL this as the FAA rams more and more incompetent
women and minorities down the workforces throat under the
guise of politically correct tyranny.

The rubber band snapped at LEX Sunday

Soon many more will snap unless the FAA starts a numbered
bid system and goes with aviation related qualifications
rather than social engineering SCAMS and diversity within a
super sophisticated operational environment that requires
the brightest and best.

Call the FAA some time and ask how many experienced white
heterosexual males have retired or quit in the last year??

You will be surprised

Many more rubber bands will continue to snap unless the FAA
radically changes it's priorities back to aviation safety
rather than social engineering and "Kissing the Black Ass"

You will see

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"FUBAR" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Did the controller make any error that contributed to this crash"?
> Probably not
>
> Did the FAA make any errors that contributed to this crash? Yes
>
> The FAA violated their own staffing orders for LEX
>
> The FAA orders clearly state you must have two controllers on duty if you
> are working the field and Radar approach
>
> End of subject
>

Would this crash have been prevented if two controllers had been on duty?


>
> By the way, the controller just came off a shift with very little sleep.
> He WAS worked like a dog sir.

No he wasn't. The traffic as reported at LEX during the night hours doesn't
by itself justify having the ATC facility open at all. I have to conclude
it's open only to provide radar coverage to the area.


>
> You see this is common practice now in the FAA as the diversity hiring and
> politically correct house of cards the FAA has built since the Clinton
> Administration starts to crumble.
>
> As experienced controllers and technicians(Mostly White Males) work double
> shifts, back to back shifts and endure pathetic unqualified
> management(Mostly Minority and Female)the old and tired rubber band
> sometimes stretchs and snaps. ALL this as the FAA rams more and more
> incompetent women and minorities down the workforces throat under the
> guise of politically correct tyranny.
>
> The rubber band snapped at LEX Sunday
>
> Soon many more will snap unless the FAA starts a numbered bid system and
> goes with aviation related qualifications rather than social engineering
> SCAMS and diversity within a super sophisticated operational environment
> that requires the brightest and best.
>
> Call the FAA some time and ask how many experienced white heterosexual
> males have retired or quit in the last year??
>
> You will be surprised
>
> Many more rubber bands will continue to snap unless the FAA radically
> changes it's priorities back to aviation safety rather than social
> engineering and "Kissing the Black Ass"
>
> You will see
>

There's nothing you can tell me about the FAA.

[Sam Spade]

Ron Lee wrote:
> FUBAR > wrote:
>
>
>>Sound Familiar? Let's see!
>>
>>What has the flying public found out so far about the
>>Kentucky tragedy?
>>
>>We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT
>>staffing at this location. We know the Veteran controller
>>was being worked like a dog as many "Veteran and
>>experienced" controllers and technicians are. (While many
>>incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic or
>>repair sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management
>>to meet diversity goals)
>>
>>The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep
>>requirements by one hour. We know staffing and funding in
>>the FAA for critical people like controllers and technicians
>>is cut short. (All while some contractors swim in FAA tax
>>gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)
>
> .
> Delleted fluff
>
> Steven already covered the reasons why your view is flawed.
> Bottom line is that there is ZERO evidence that the controller made
> the pilots take off the wrong runway. The pilots alone are suspect
> IMO. Taxiway painting, runway work, closed taxiway...etc are
> irrelevant. They had one useable runway and they missed it.
>
> Ron Lee
>

We won't learn much if we categorically state at this time that the
pilots were the only reason for the crash. Almost certainly their
actions will end up being the probable cause, but we have yet to know
about contribution factors; i.e., the Jeppesen and NACO charts show
different taxiway names. Was the signage up to snuff? Did the company
dispatcher do his/her part? Runway 26 shows on the airport diagrams as
being much narrower than 22, but this was done with paint; the physical
runway appears to be as wide as 22.

I do agree that the controller was almost certainly not a contributing
factor, except the NTSB might say he contributed to the slight extent
that he was not watching (even though he was not required to). This one
is sticky because there should have been two of them on duty. This can
end up being a contribution cause without the controller having failed
to do his job.

[FUBAR]

Sam Spade wrote:
> Ron Lee wrote:
>
>> FUBAR > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Sound Familiar? Let's see!
>>>
>>> What has the flying public found out so far about the Kentucky tragedy?
>>>
>>> We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT staffing at
>>> this location. We know the Veteran controller was being worked like a
>>> dog as many "Veteran and experienced" controllers and technicians
>>> are. (While many incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic
>>> or repair sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management to
>>> meet diversity goals)
>>>
>>> The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep
>>> requirements by one hour. We know staffing and funding in the FAA for
>>> critical people like controllers and technicians is cut short. (All
>>> while some contractors swim in FAA tax gravy money treated like Kings
>>> and Queens)
>>
>>
>> .
>> Delleted fluff
>>
>> Steven already covered the reasons why your view is flawed. Bottom
>> line is that there is ZERO evidence that the controller made
>> the pilots take off the wrong runway. The pilots alone are suspect
>> IMO. Taxiway painting, runway work, closed taxiway...etc are
>> irrelevant. They had one useable runway and they missed it.
>>
>> Ron Lee
>>
>
> We won't learn much if we categorically state at this time that the
> pilots were the only reason for the crash. Almost certainly their
> actions will end up being the probable cause, but we have yet to know
> about contribution factors; i.e., the Jeppesen and NACO charts show
> different taxiway names. Was the signage up to snuff? Did the company
> dispatcher do his/her part? Runway 26 shows on the airport diagrams as
> being much narrower than 22, but this was done with paint; the physical
> runway appears to be as wide as 22.
>
> I do agree that the controller was almost certainly not a contributing
> factor, except the NTSB might say he contributed to the slight extent
> that he was not watching (even though he was not required to). This one
> is sticky because there should have been two of them on duty. This can
> end up being a contribution cause without the controller having failed
> to do his job.

"This one is sticky"

You sir win the grand prize!

Read about the 1997 Korean Air Guam accident. Very different
circumstances but the LIABILITY issues are similar. In court
it was ruled the FAA WAS LIABLE for several reasons but the
overall mitigating circumstance was the FAA violated their
own orders.

Those FAA orders are for a reason. Many FAA orders are a
direct result of accidents and NTSB investigations and
advisement.

When the FAA and Government fails to follow their own
official orders they are liable. End of story.


Your tax dollars at work

[Don Poitras]

FUBAR > wrote:

> Call the FAA some time and ask how many experienced white
> heterosexual males have retired or quit in the last year??

"Hello, you've reached the FAA."

"Hi. Can you tell me how many white, heterosexual males have retired
or quit in the last year?"

"What? Are you an idiot?"

"No, but I know someone who is..."

<click>


> You will be surprised

Wasn't surprising at all.

--
Don Poitras

[Newps]

> FUBAR > wrote:
>
>
>>Call the FAA some time and ask how many experienced white
>>heterosexual males have retired or quit in the last year??

They don't break it down that way but retirements were 465 controllers
in 2005, which was 23% of those eligible to retire. They project 467
for 2006. Retirements will slowly escalate until 2012 when they project
796. Then it will decline. Losses due to quitting, death and outright
removal were 85 last year and are projected to stay that way for the
forseeable future. Hardly FUBAR, FUBAR.

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: FUBAR ]
> Posted At: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:17 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
> Conversation: The FAA sinks deeper into crap over Kentucky accident
> Subject: Re: The FAA sinks deeper into crap over Kentucky accident
>

Ok, it is now becoming clear... oldfart must be a disgruntled former
controller that got laid off for some reason he (or she) prefers to
blame on the FAA's diversity policy. The views expressed in his/her
posts are also trying to blame the FAA for obvious pilot error. Again,
it has to be someone else's fault -- specifically the wicked old FAA.

What a pitiful life to have to live where one carries so much pain,
contempt, bigotry, and jealousy. Oldfart has appropriately taken the
moniker of fubar, somewhat like Picasso's self-portrait.

[JPH]

FUBAR wrote:
> Sound Familiar? Let's see!
>
> What has the flying public found out so far about the Kentucky tragedy?
>
> We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT staffing at this
> location. We know the Veteran controller was being worked like a dog as
> many "Veteran and experienced" controllers and technicians are. (While
> many incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic or repair
> sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management to meet diversity
> goals)
>
> The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep requirements
> by one hour. We know staffing and funding in the FAA for critical people
> like controllers and technicians is cut short. (All while some
> contractors swim in FAA tax gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)
>
> We know however that in the FAA the new priority is Diversity and Gay
> groups and Female sensitivity boon doggle conferences at resort hotels
> funded by a Feminist controlled FAA. Those new priority items are funded
> without a problem while veteran controllers and technicians work bizarre
> and stressful shifts and in many locations are undermanned.
>
> Hmmmmmmmmmmm................
>
> Repeat after me-FAA-Swarm of lawyer sharks-Wallet-Better be
> fat-CHAAAAAAAAAAAA-Chinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg!!!
>
>
> LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - The lone air traffic controller on duty the
> morning Comair Flight 5191 crashed had only two hours of sleep before
> starting work on the overnight shift, a federal investigator said
> Wednesday.
>
> National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman said the
> controller had only nine hours off between work shifts Saturday. That
> was just enough to meet federal rules, which require a minimum of eight
> hours off between shifts, Hersman said.
>
> "He advised our team that he got approximately two hours of sleep,"
> Hersman said.
>
> The controller, a 17-year veteran whose name has not been released
> publicly, worked from 6:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. on Saturday. He came back
> to work at 11:30 p.m. on the same day to begin an eight-hour overnight
> shift.
>
> How many more innocent people will die before the FAA rearranges it's
> priorities BACK to aviation safety?
>
> How many?
FAA does not mandate sleep; it just requires the controller to be off a
specified time. If the controller only got 2 hours sleep then it wasn't
because the FAA didn't provide enough hours off. The controller had the
opportunity to sleep, just as the pilots did. Most controllers prefer
the condensed shifts because they get a much longer break after a few
shifts.
I don't suppose a mid shift at LEX is overly taxing, so it's not like he
was being worked to death.
Although it would have been nice if the controller caught the pilots
mistake, that's not the job of the controller, so I don't see any
negligence there. If there was a second controller, that one would have
been doing radar duties, the other controller would still be doing what
he was doing.
Even if the controller was ignoring everything else and focused on the
airplane using tunnel vision, he may not have realized what was
happening until too late, and if he tried to call an abort to the pilot
doing a rolling takeoff, then they would have probably blamed the
controller for causing confusion that led to the accident.

JPH

[FUBAR]

Jim Carter wrote:
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: FUBAR ]
>>Posted At: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:17 PM
>>Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
>>Conversation: The FAA sinks deeper into crap over Kentucky accident
>>Subject: Re: The FAA sinks deeper into crap over Kentucky accident
>>
>
>
> Ok, it is now becoming clear... oldfart must be a disgruntled former
> controller that got laid off for some reason he (or she) prefers to
> blame on the FAA's diversity policy. The views expressed in his/her
> posts are also trying to blame the FAA for obvious pilot error. Again,
> it has to be someone else's fault -- specifically the wicked old FAA.
>
> What a pitiful life to have to live where one carries so much pain,
> contempt, bigotry, and jealousy. Oldfart has appropriately taken the
> moniker of fubar, somewhat like Picasso's self-portrait.
>
>

"wicked old FAA"???

Read this. I believe it mentions the "Wicked old FAA"
Before you talk out your ass, you should understand the
complex nature of accident liability.

In LEX last Sunday, the FAA orders REQUIRED that two
controllers be on duty. You can argue all day it was ALL the
pilots fault or part the controller or bad runway paint
yada-yada-yada

The bottom line IN COURT the FAA will be anal raped without
grease. What part of VIOLATING OFFICIAL FAA ORDERS do you
not understand??

Below is another accident where the FAA VIOLATED their own
orders for your reading enjoyment. Maybe some of you guys
will learn something. You may be good IFR pilots but some of
you are completely clueless when it comes to aircraft
accident liability.

I have no ax to grind. I just know the FAA has MAJOR
problems. I also know that Black Females who were secretarys
a few years ago are now managing the National Airspace
System in high positions in the FAA who are UNQUALIFIED.

Diversity comes before air safety in the FAA

Not good.


The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the
probable cause of the Korean Air flight 801 accident was the
captain’s failure to adequately brief and execute the
nonprecision approach and the first officer’s and flight
engineer’s failure to effectively monitor and cross-check
the captain’s execution of the approach. Contributing to
these failures were the captain’s fatigue and Korean Air’s
inadequate flight crew training. Contributing to the
accident was the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA)
intentional inhibition of the minimum safe altitude warning
system (MSAW) at Guam and the agency’s failure to adequately
manage the system.

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2000/AAR0001.htm

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"FUBAR" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "wicked old FAA"???
>
> Read this. I believe it mentions the "Wicked old FAA"
> Before you talk out your ass, you should understand the complex nature of
> accident liability.
>
> In LEX last Sunday, the FAA orders REQUIRED that two controllers be on
> duty. You can argue all day it was ALL the pilots fault or part the
> controller or bad runway paint yada-yada-yada
>

You don't seem to understand that the number of controllers on duty did not
contribute to the cause of this accident.

[FUBAR]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "FUBAR" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>"wicked old FAA"???
>>
>>Read this. I believe it mentions the "Wicked old FAA"
>>Before you talk out your ass, you should understand the complex nature of
>>accident liability.
>>
>>In LEX last Sunday, the FAA orders REQUIRED that two controllers be on
>>duty. You can argue all day it was ALL the pilots fault or part the
>>controller or bad runway paint yada-yada-yada
>>
>
>
> You don't seem to understand that the number of controllers on duty did not
> contribute to the cause of this accident.
>
>

You don't seem to understand in a court of law it does not
matter. You are thinking step by step pilot logic. The FAA
controller staffing orders were violated. The lawyers will
have a field day with it. All they have to do is convince
the jury that MAYBE? if two controllers were on duty the
crash would not have happened. Toss in the close shift turn
around for the controller on duty and it's over. Obviously
you have never sat on a jury during civil litigation.

The FAA is screwed. The one with the fat pockets is always
screwed in civil court. Sharks always like to feed on the
fattest and slowest and dumbest meat.

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven P. McNicoll ]
> Posted At: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:14 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
> Conversation: The FAA sinks deeper into crap over Kentucky accident
> Subject: Re: The FAA sinks deeper into crap over Kentucky accident
>
>
....
>
> You don't seem to understand that the number of controllers on duty
did
> not
> contribute to the cause of this accident.

Oldfart really doesn't care about the cause of the accident Steve, he's
got a gripe with the FAA for some reason only clear to his narrow little
mind so no one's going to pry open his feeble little psyche to the
truth. He has decided that the cause of the accident is all the FAA's
fault and that's all that matters to him. That's why he keeps repeating
his mantra about the FAA being liable because of only one controller on
duty. If the tower had been closed, it still would have been the FAA's
fault somehow. That's the way his mind works...

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"FUBAR" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> You don't seem to understand in a court of law it does not matter. You are
> thinking step by step pilot logic. The FAA controller staffing orders were
> violated. The lawyers will have a field day with it. All they have to do
> is convince the jury that MAYBE? if two controllers were on duty the crash
> would not have happened. Toss in the close shift turn around for the
> controller on duty and it's over. Obviously you have never sat on a jury
> during civil litigation.
>
> The FAA is screwed. The one with the fat pockets is always screwed in
> civil court. Sharks always like to feed on the fattest and slowest and
> dumbest meat.
>

I understand completely. You're talking about liability, everyone else is
talking about the causes of the accident. In a court of law the causes,
facts, and logic are irrelevant. Torts are decided by emotional appeals to
juries.

[FUBAR]

Jim Carter wrote:
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Steven P. McNicoll ]
>>Posted At: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:14 PM
>>Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
>>Conversation: The FAA sinks deeper into crap over Kentucky accident
>>Subject: Re: The FAA sinks deeper into crap over Kentucky accident
>>
>>
>
> ...
>
>>You don't seem to understand that the number of controllers on duty
>
> did
>
>>not
>>contribute to the cause of this accident.
>
>
> Oldfart really doesn't care about the cause of the accident Steve, he's
> got a gripe with the FAA for some reason only clear to his narrow little
> mind so no one's going to pry open his feeble little psyche to the
> truth. He has decided that the cause of the accident is all the FAA's
> fault and that's all that matters to him. That's why he keeps repeating
> his mantra about the FAA being liable because of only one controller on
> duty. If the tower had been closed, it still would have been the FAA's
> fault somehow. That's the way his mind works...
>
>
My mind works by following FAA orders when I fly. Just like
you do when you fly.

In LEX Sunday the FAA did not follow their own controller
staffing orders. If the FAA does not follow their own
controller staffing orders, why should anybody follow their
orders when flying?

Think about it

[Judah]

FUBAR > wrote in news:VyMJg.41100$j8.20509
@bignews7.bellsouth.net:

<snip>

> I have no ax to grind. I just know the FAA has MAJOR
> problems. I also know that Black Females who were secretarys
> a few years ago are now managing the National Airspace
> System in high positions in the FAA who are UNQUALIFIED.
>
> Diversity comes before air safety in the FAA


So your theory is that if there were no Black Females in management at the
FAA then this accident would have been avoided?

Can you elaborate? Did the Black Female manager that you're upset with order
this supposed staffing reduction and violation of the FAA rule? In what way
was she directly responsible for any of this exactly?

[Steven P. McNicoll[_1_]]

"FUBAR" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> My mind works by following FAA orders when I fly. Just like you do when
> you fly.
>
> In LEX Sunday the FAA did not follow their own controller staffing orders.
> If the FAA does not follow their own controller staffing orders, why
> should anybody follow their orders when flying?
>
> Think about it
>

Please explain how that caused the airplane to attempt takeoff on the wrong
runway.

[Sam Spade]

FUBAR wrote:


>
>
> The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable
> cause of the Korean Air flight 801 accident was the captain’s failure to
> adequately brief and execute the nonprecision approach and the first
> officer’s and flight engineer’s failure to effectively monitor and
> cross-check the captain’s execution of the approach. Contributing to
> these failures were the captain’s fatigue and Korean Air’s inadequate
> flight crew training. Contributing to the accident was the Federal
> Aviation Administration’s (FAA) intentional inhibition of the minimum
> safe altitude warning system (MSAW) at Guam and the agency’s failure to
> adequately manage the system.
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2000/AAR0001.htm

Your inconsistencies are showing. On the one hand you rant about the
eventual tort actions. On the other hand, you cite an accident where
the FAA's improper actions were deemed a contributing factor by the
NTSB. Yet, with the LEX crash you shift your focus away from the NTSB.

The Guam accident, with which I am *very* familiar, could have been
prevented had the MSAW not been screwed with. I was at the hearing and
the FAA person who screwed up the MSAW was a witness. He was a white male.