Baron issues

[Viperdoc[_1_]]

Well, in three days of flying a long cross country to West Texas from
Wisconsin, my autopilot went nuts in the roll axis- wouldn't capture flight
director or heading bug info, and just tried to do uncommanded turns.
Altitude and pitch worked fine.

Suspected a bad roll servo- could be driver transistors or even a motor. Was
told a new motor (if available) could be up to $3000. Had to hand fly back
from Texas in IMC- not much fun and pretty tiring.

Pulled the back cover off and yes, it sure looks like a servo- but no way to
tell if it works until it gets into the avionics shop.

Any help on testing the unit while still installed? There is resistance to
aileron input with the autopilot on, but the servo won't turn or capture
heading bug or FD input.

Then, in a routine post flight, I tried the strobes- no luck. The tail flash
tube looks a little blackened- does anyone know if the wing tip units will
continue to work if the tail tube is dead?

Or, does this sound like a power supply issue?

All of this is getting to sound expensive as well as being a pain- any
advice or commiseration would be appreciated. BTW the plane is a B-55 Baron.

TIA

[[email protected]]

Is this a Century? What model? I can probably
help U figure out what is wrong from symptoms.

Bill Hale


Viperdoc wrote:
> Well, in three days of flying a long cross country to West Texas from
> Wisconsin, my autopilot went nuts in the roll axis- wouldn't capture flight
> director or heading bug info, and just tried to do uncommanded turns.
> Altitude and pitch worked fine.
>
> Suspected a bad roll servo- could be driver transistors or even a motor. Was
> told a new motor (if available) could be up to $3000. Had to hand fly back
> from Texas in IMC- not much fun and pretty tiring.
>
> Pulled the back cover off and yes, it sure looks like a servo- but no way to
> tell if it works until it gets into the avionics shop.
>
> Any help on testing the unit while still installed? There is resistance to
> aileron input with the autopilot on, but the servo won't turn or capture
> heading bug or FD input.
>
> Then, in a routine post flight, I tried the strobes- no luck. The tail flash
> tube looks a little blackened- does anyone know if the wing tip units will
> continue to work if the tail tube is dead?
>
> Or, does this sound like a power supply issue?
>
> All of this is getting to sound expensive as well as being a pain- any
> advice or commiseration would be appreciated. BTW the plane is a B-55 Baron.
>
> TIA

[Viperdoc[_1_]]

King KFC 200

[Peter R.]

Viperdoc > wrote:

> All of this is getting to sound expensive as well as being a pain- any
> advice or commiseration would be appreciated.

Commiseration only: In the last two years my Bonanza needed a rebuilt
engine, a starter, two new alternators, an overhaul of the STEC HSI gyro, a
new attitude indicator, a repair of the Garmin GNS430 for a failed
glideslope receiver, a repair of the GNS430 for a failed localizer receiver
(both GNS430 repairs happened separately and beyond their six month
warranty period), two batteries, main gear brake lines, and, in what
appears to be a precursor to your problem, an AP that deviates 5 degrees
from either heading or GPS steer course once every six hours or so.

In looking for commiseration among aviation-interested friends locally, I
believe I accidentally scared two of them away for ever owning their own
aircraft.

--
Peter

[[email protected]]

In the kfc 200, there is very little circuitry downstream
of the attitude bars other than that in the servos. One
summing amplifier is about it.

So if the bars work correctly, but the controls don't move
absolutely one for one with the bars, it's likely
the servos.

If the controls move in one direction or other
when the bars are neutral-- likely is the servo.

Bill H.

Viperdoc wrote:
> King KFC 200

[[email protected]]

One obviously has to have a prepurchase inspection done.

In a perfect world:

1)The inspection would be by a mechanic that is familiar with the aircraft type.
2)The inspection would be done by the mechanic that is going to maintain the plane on an ongoing basis.
3)The inspection is not done by the mechanic that was maintaining the plane.

If the plane in question is out of your area how do you do 1,2,3?

How is this problem solved?

If you have a remote mechanic do the prepurchase, how do you trust the
care and honesty of someone you will only do business with once and
is far far away?


Paul

[Jim Burns]

I don't think things have gotten so bad that he is selling his Baron and
looking for another.

Jim Burns


> wrote in message
...
> One obviously has to have a prepurchase inspection done.
>
> In a perfect world:
>
> 1)The inspection would be by a mechanic that is familiar with the aircraft
> type.
> 2)The inspection would be done by the mechanic that is going to maintain
> the plane on an ongoing basis.
> 3)The inspection is not done by the mechanic that was maintaining the
> plane.
>
> If the plane in question is out of your area how do you do 1,2,3?
>
> How is this problem solved?
>
> If you have a remote mechanic do the prepurchase, how do you trust the
> care and honesty of someone you will only do business with once and
> is far far away?
>
>
> Paul
>

[Jim Burns]

I'd call Autopilots Central. I've talked with Bob Ferguson a couple times
and he's always had good advice for our situations.
Jim

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
> Well, in three days of flying a long cross country to West Texas from
> Wisconsin, my autopilot went nuts in the roll axis- wouldn't capture
> flight director or heading bug info, and just tried to do uncommanded
> turns. Altitude and pitch worked fine.
>
> Suspected a bad roll servo- could be driver transistors or even a motor.
> Was told a new motor (if available) could be up to $3000. Had to hand fly
> back from Texas in IMC- not much fun and pretty tiring.
>
> Pulled the back cover off and yes, it sure looks like a servo- but no way
> to tell if it works until it gets into the avionics shop.
>
> Any help on testing the unit while still installed? There is resistance to
> aileron input with the autopilot on, but the servo won't turn or capture
> heading bug or FD input.
>
> Then, in a routine post flight, I tried the strobes- no luck. The tail
> flash tube looks a little blackened- does anyone know if the wing tip
> units will continue to work if the tail tube is dead?
>
> Or, does this sound like a power supply issue?
>
> All of this is getting to sound expensive as well as being a pain- any
> advice or commiseration would be appreciated. BTW the plane is a B-55
> Baron.
>
> TIA
>

[Viperdoc[_1_]]

I've had this plane for nearly five years, and am happy with its condition
and performance. It is not new to me, and I had an extensive pre-buy/annual
prior to the purchase.

Short of buying something that burns kerosene (which I can't afford) I'm
sticking with it for a while. I expect stuff to break or need replacement
periodically.

It looks like the roll servo is the culprit- it needs a new motor and drive
transistors, along with a new resistor.

The strobe problem is likely the power supply, which will also need
replacement. The whole thing is likely to be around $2500+.

[Jim Burns]

I don't remember where I read it, but I recall an article that talked about
how the servo motors in our autopilots normally run for such short intervals
and at slow speed that they can "gum up" or the dust that the brushes create
can build up and or the commentator can varnish over. The article suggested
using the heading bug, trim, and or test modes to run the servos at high
speed first one direction and then the other occasionally, say once per
month, to "blow" things out and to scrub the brushes and armature.

YMMV, just something I remember reading.
Jim

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
> I've had this plane for nearly five years, and am happy with its condition
> and performance. It is not new to me, and I had an extensive
> pre-buy/annual prior to the purchase.
>
> Short of buying something that burns kerosene (which I can't afford) I'm
> sticking with it for a while. I expect stuff to break or need replacement
> periodically.
>
> It looks like the roll servo is the culprit- it needs a new motor and
> drive transistors, along with a new resistor.
>
> The strobe problem is likely the power supply, which will also need
> replacement. The whole thing is likely to be around $2500+.
>
>
>

[[email protected][_1_]]

On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 16:52:27 GMT, "Viperdoc"
> wrote:

snip

>Then, in a routine post flight, I tried the strobes- no luck. The tail flash
>tube looks a little blackened- does anyone know if the wing tip units will
>continue to work if the tail tube is dead?
>
>Or, does this sound like a power supply issue?
>
>All of this is getting to sound expensive as well as being a pain- any
>advice or commiseration would be appreciated. BTW the plane is a B-55 Baron.
>
>TIA
>

If you've still got a Grimes power supply installed-unless you've
going to have somebody that's handy with with a soldering iron repair
it-consider switching to a Whelen.

Going the "approved" repair route, getting a Grimes PS repaired can
tend to be pricey and problematic. When a Whelen PS quits (unless
things have changed recently) Whelen will either fix it relatively
inexpensively or will sell you one a new one at a serious discount.

With regard to swapping a Grimes to a Whelen, it's typically a simple
log entry

http://whelen.com/aviation/pmasupplements/pmasup33.pdf

TC

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:18:43 -0700, wrote:

>One obviously has to have a prepurchase inspection done.
>
>In a perfect world:
>
>1)The inspection would be by a mechanic that is familiar with the aircraft type.
>2)The inspection would be done by the mechanic that is going to maintain the plane on an ongoing basis.
>3)The inspection is not done by the mechanic that was maintaining the plane.
>
>If the plane in question is out of your area how do you do 1,2,3?
>
>How is this problem solved?

You pay your mechanic to travel to the airplane and perform the inspection.

I suppose you could somehow arrange for the aircraft to be flown to your
mechanic's shop.

>
>If you have a remote mechanic do the prepurchase, how do you trust the
>care and honesty of someone you will only do business with once and
>is far far away?

See Above


>
>
>Paul

Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Ross Richardson[_2_]]

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:18:43 -0700, wrote:
>
>
>>One obviously has to have a prepurchase inspection done.
>>
>>In a perfect world:
>>
>>1)The inspection would be by a mechanic that is familiar with the aircraft type.
>>2)The inspection would be done by the mechanic that is going to maintain the plane on an ongoing basis.
>>3)The inspection is not done by the mechanic that was maintaining the plane.
>>
>>If the plane in question is out of your area how do you do 1,2,3?
>>
>>How is this problem solved?
>
>
> You pay your mechanic to travel to the airplane and perform the inspection.
>
> I suppose you could somehow arrange for the aircraft to be flown to your
> mechanic's shop.
>
>
>>If you have a remote mechanic do the prepurchase, how do you trust the
>>care and honesty of someone you will only do business with once and
>>is far far away?
>
>
> See Above
>
>
>
>>
>>Paul
>
>
> Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)


When I had the prepurchase inspection done on my plane I got an
insurance rider on the plane and the owner approved me to fly it to my
mechanic. The distance was not too far, thank goodness. Worked fine.
Turned the rider into an insurance policy when I bought the plane.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Mike Isaksen]

"Ross Richardson" > wrote in ...
> When I had the prepurchase inspection done on my plane I got
> an insurance rider on the plane and the owner approved me to
> fly it to my mechanic. The distance was not too far, thank goodness.
> Worked fine. Turned the rider into an insurance policy when I
> bought the plane.
>

How did you ASSURE the owner that the plane would come back to his airport
if your A&P report was unfavorable. This seems to be the "fear factor" of
allowing the inspection off site for every owner. I've heard of pi$$ing
contests of "It wasn't like that when I gave you the plane, your mechanic
must have broke it", and such.

[Ross Richardson[_2_]]

Mike Isaksen wrote:
> "Ross Richardson" > wrote in ...
>
>>When I had the prepurchase inspection done on my plane I got
>>an insurance rider on the plane and the owner approved me to
>>fly it to my mechanic. The distance was not too far, thank goodness.
>>Worked fine. Turned the rider into an insurance policy when I
>>bought the plane.
>>
>
>
> How did you ASSURE the owner that the plane would come back to his airport
> if your A&P report was unfavorable. This seems to be the "fear factor" of
> allowing the inspection off site for every owner. I've heard of pi$$ing
> contests of "It wasn't like that when I gave you the plane, your mechanic
> must have broke it", and such.
>
>
I had known the owner for some time and he was also a member of our EAA
chapter. Plus, I am a good and trustworthy person......

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Viperdoc[_1_]]

I looked at a Baron from an airport around an hour away. I sent them a
deposit check to cover expenses, since they claimed the plane was in great
shape and completely as advertised. The agreement was that if I purchased
the plane they would use the money to pay for return transport of the pilot,
but would refund completely if the plane did not meet their claims.

My mechanic did a pre-buy, and told the pilot that it was nearly
unairworthy, and clearly unsafe to fly- basically junk, with a lot of stuff
pencil whipped in the logs.

It took a while, but after around a month I got my money back after some
threatening phone calls and using the lawyer word a few times.

We took the same approach to my current Baron, and the seller and his pilot
were real gentlemen, as well as honest. The plane has been a gem since then,
and a pleasure to fly.

It seems there are real extremes- but the bottom line is "caveat emptor" (I
think)

[Jay Honeck]

> In looking for commiseration among aviation-interested friends locally, I
> believe I accidentally scared two of them away for ever owning their own
> aircraft.

Dang, Peter -- you're experience even scared *me* -- and I've been
through a couple of rough stretches with maintenance...

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter R.]

Jay Honeck > wrote:

> Dang, Peter -- you're experience even scared *me* -- and I've been
> through a couple of rough stretches with maintenance...

Too late to be scared; you are already hooked. :)

--
Peter

[Viperdoc[_1_]]

Thanks for the tips. The motor and drive transistors were all shot. The
motor is tiny compared to what I expected, and even more so considering the
expense.

The strobe power supply is shot as well. I will check tonight, but if it is
the original Grimes, I plan on replacing it with a Whelen.

You and Jay saw my wingtip strobe cover that cracked due to hangar rash-$450
(plus $150 for the aftermarket one I purchased from an outfit that promised
they were the same as a Bonanza lens, which was incorrect. He never returned
any phone calls or email messages either, after the fact)

So, after a long stretch of maintenance free flying, I am up to around
$3,000. And, my insurance bill just arrived yesterday- but I was
anticipating this expense at least.

This is beginning to get as expensive as golfing at some posh country club!

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

I know where you're coming from.... I swallowed insurance, annual
inspection, and OSH during the same 2 week period.

Sorry about the after market lens. The more airplane parts I buy, the
easier it is for me to see how each of our flying-mobiles is hand made and
hardly anything fits right out of the box, especially after market parts.
When after market parts are all that are available or priced significantly
less, I try to go into those little adventures with my eyes wide open.
Unfortunately sometimes it's our wallets that end up being opened.

Jim


"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the tips. The motor and drive transistors were all shot. The
> motor is tiny compared to what I expected, and even more so considering
the
> expense.
>
> The strobe power supply is shot as well. I will check tonight, but if it
is
> the original Grimes, I plan on replacing it with a Whelen.
>
> You and Jay saw my wingtip strobe cover that cracked due to hangar
rash-$450
> (plus $150 for the aftermarket one I purchased from an outfit that
promised
> they were the same as a Bonanza lens, which was incorrect. He never
returned
> any phone calls or email messages either, after the fact)
>
> So, after a long stretch of maintenance free flying, I am up to around
> $3,000. And, my insurance bill just arrived yesterday- but I was
> anticipating this expense at least.
>
> This is beginning to get as expensive as golfing at some posh country
club!
>
>

[Newps]

Viperdoc wrote:

>
> The strobe power supply is shot as well. I will check tonight, but if it is
> the original Grimes, I plan on replacing it with a Whelen.
>

Lots of guys are replacing the strobes with the model from Universal, if
you're talking about the fuselage strobes.

[B A R R Y[_1_]]

Newps wrote:
>
>
> Viperdoc wrote:
>
>>
>> The strobe power supply is shot as well. I will check tonight, but if
>> it is the original Grimes, I plan on replacing it with a Whelen.
>>
>
> Lots of guys are replacing the strobes with the model from Universal, if
> you're talking about the fuselage strobes.

I'm not familiar with the Universal, but we're thrilled with the Whelen
LED strobe we installed 9 months ago.

[Matt Barrow]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
t...
> Newps wrote:
>> Lots of guys are replacing the strobes with the model from Universal, if
>> you're talking about the fuselage strobes.
>
> I'm not familiar with the Universal, but we're thrilled with the Whelen
> LED strobe we installed 9 months ago.

Ditto


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)