Instrument rating prerequisites

[[email protected]]

Hi all.

A quick question about getting the Instrument rating: you have to have
50 hours of cross-country pilot-in-command time, right? How is
cross-country time defined for this purpose? I couldn't find anything
in the FAR AIM that defines it. I guess maybe it is the same as the
definition for the Private, which I believe is flying to an airport at
least 50nm from the start point.

Does anyone know for sure? Also do you have to land at another airport
for it to be cross-country or do you just have to go there?

If anyone has the precise definition I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

Tom

[Jose[_1_]]

> A quick question about getting the Instrument rating: you have to have
> 50 hours of cross-country pilot-in-command time, right? How is
> cross-country time defined for this purpose? I couldn't find anything
> in the FAR AIM that defines it. I guess maybe it is the same as the
> definition for the Private, which I believe is flying to an airport at
> least 50nm from the start point.
>
> Does anyone know for sure? Also do you have to land at another airport
> for it to be cross-country or do you just have to go there?
>
> If anyone has the precise definition I'd appreciate it.

The definition is in 61.1 (b)(3)

It says something like "except for ... it means just land at another
airport". The "except for" part that relates would be (ii), which
relates to an instrument rating (among other things) and requires a 50
nm straight line distance between airports. According to the FAQ (which
is not binding and no longer online), you may include as cross country
time any time that is part of the same flight - for example a short hop
to reposition the airplane to a point where you begin the leg with the
50 nm distance (or buy cheap fuel before the flight), and a 10 nm leg
between two 100 nm legs.

Yes, you have to land there. ATPs don't have to, but us lesser folk do.

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jim Macklin]

61.65
(d) Aeronautical experience. A person who applies for an
instrument rating must have logged the following:

(1) At least 50 hours of cross-country flight time as pilot
in command, of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes
for an instrument-airplane rating; and

(2) A total of 40 hours of actual or simulated instrument
time on the areas of operation of this section, to include-

(i) At least 15 hours of instrument flight training from an
authorized instructor in the aircraft category for which the
instrument rating is sought;

(ii) At least 3 hours of instrument training that is
appropriate to the instrument rating sought from an
authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test
within the 60 days preceding the date of the test;

(iii) For an instrument-airplane rating, instrument training
on cross- country flight procedures specific to airplanes
that includes at least one cross-country flight in an
airplane that is performed under IFR, and consists of-

(A) A distance of at least 250 nautical miles along airways
or ATC-directed routing;

(B) An instrument approach at each airport; and

(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of
navigation systems;



Cross country is defined for pilots appling for a pilot
certificate, time that will count toward an instrument
rating does not have to meet the later requirement for a
commercial or ATP certificate. All you student pilot cross
country time that left one airport and landed some place
else counts for the IR. Do a touch and go on an approach
and it is a cross country.




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


> wrote in message
oups.com...
| Hi all.
|
| A quick question about getting the Instrument rating: you
have to have
| 50 hours of cross-country pilot-in-command time, right?
How is
| cross-country time defined for this purpose? I couldn't
find anything
| in the FAR AIM that defines it. I guess maybe it is the
same as the
| definition for the Private, which I believe is flying to
an airport at
| least 50nm from the start point.
|
| Does anyone know for sure? Also do you have to land at
another airport
| for it to be cross-country or do you just have to go
there?
|
| If anyone has the precise definition I'd appreciate it.
|
| Thanks
|
| Tom
|

[Andrey Serbinenko]

50 hours if you're doing it under part 61 (61.65).
For part 141 there's no such requirement (141 appendix C).
61.109 gives the definition of the required cross-country
experience: a flight of at least 100nm total distance.

Andrey

wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> A quick question about getting the Instrument rating: you have to have
> 50 hours of cross-country pilot-in-command time, right? How is
> cross-country time defined for this purpose? I couldn't find anything
> in the FAR AIM that defines it. I guess maybe it is the same as the
> definition for the Private, which I believe is flying to an airport at
> least 50nm from the start point.
>
> Does anyone know for sure? Also do you have to land at another airport
> for it to be cross-country or do you just have to go there?
>
> If anyone has the precise definition I'd appreciate it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom
>

[Andrey Serbinenko]

> 61.109 gives the definition of the required cross-country
> experience: a flight of at least 100nm total distance.

correction: not "cross-country experience", but "cross-country flight"

[Dave S]

You dont have to have it as a prerequisite for training. Only to test.
You can attain the 50 hours while or in conjuction with your Instrument
training. You could easily get 10-15 hours of the CC in the form of
instrument training. More if you do your practice approaches greater
than 50 miles away from your base. This will give you a little
"breather" between departure procedures and beginning a slew of
approaches, then another breather before shooting an approach back into
your base.

Dave

wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> A quick question about getting the Instrument rating: you have to have
> 50 hours of cross-country pilot-in-command time, right? How is
> cross-country time defined for this purpose? I couldn't find anything
> in the FAR AIM that defines it. I guess maybe it is the same as the
> definition for the Private, which I believe is flying to an airport at
> least 50nm from the start point.
>
> Does anyone know for sure? Also do you have to land at another airport
> for it to be cross-country or do you just have to go there?
>
> If anyone has the precise definition I'd appreciate it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom
>

[Jim Macklin]

Correction, on re-reading the rule 50 nm, straight line
point to point.
(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience
requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for
a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute
category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an
instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising
recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under
§61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight-

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a
straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from
the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage,
electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation
systems to navigate to the landing point.

"Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message news:o4pNg.22494$SZ3.16989@dukeread04...
| 61.65
| (d) Aeronautical experience. A person who applies for an
| instrument rating must have logged the following:
|
| (1) At least 50 hours of cross-country flight time as
pilot
| in command, of which at least 10 hours must be in
airplanes
| for an instrument-airplane rating; and
|
| (2) A total of 40 hours of actual or simulated instrument
| time on the areas of operation of this section, to
include-
|
| (i) At least 15 hours of instrument flight training from
an
| authorized instructor in the aircraft category for which
the
| instrument rating is sought;
|
| (ii) At least 3 hours of instrument training that is
| appropriate to the instrument rating sought from an
| authorized instructor in preparation for the practical
test
| within the 60 days preceding the date of the test;
|
| (iii) For an instrument-airplane rating, instrument
training
| on cross- country flight procedures specific to airplanes
| that includes at least one cross-country flight in an
| airplane that is performed under IFR, and consists of-
|
| (A) A distance of at least 250 nautical miles along
airways
| or ATC-directed routing;
|
| (B) An instrument approach at each airport; and
|
| (C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of
| navigation systems;
|
|
|
| Cross country is defined for pilots appling for a pilot
| certificate, time that will count toward an instrument
| rating does not have to meet the later requirement for a
| commercial or ATP certificate. All you student pilot
cross
| country time that left one airport and landed some place
| else counts for the IR. Do a touch and go on an approach
| and it is a cross country.
|
|
|
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
|
| > wrote in message
|
oups.com...
|| Hi all.
||
|| A quick question about getting the Instrument rating: you
| have to have
|| 50 hours of cross-country pilot-in-command time, right?
| How is
|| cross-country time defined for this purpose? I couldn't
| find anything
|| in the FAR AIM that defines it. I guess maybe it is the
| same as the
|| definition for the Private, which I believe is flying to
| an airport at
|| least 50nm from the start point.
||
|| Does anyone know for sure? Also do you have to land at
| another airport
|| for it to be cross-country or do you just have to go
| there?
||
|| If anyone has the precise definition I'd appreciate it.
||
|| Thanks
||
|| Tom
||
|
|

[Roy Smith]

Dave S > wrote:
> You dont have to have it as a prerequisite for training. Only to test.
> You can attain the 50 hours while or in conjuction with your Instrument
> training. You could easily get 10-15 hours of the CC in the form of
> instrument training. More if you do your practice approaches greater
> than 50 miles away from your base.

Pull out a sectional and sketch in all the approaches for the airports in
your area (you don't need every detail, just the IAF's, FAF's and MA
holding fixes). It now becomes easy to stitch together a series of
approaches where the missed of one is near the start of another, and
they're all going in the same general direction. 2 or 3 of those and
you'll find yourself 50 miles from home, so it all counts as X/C time.

It's very easy to fall into a rut of doing the same approaches over and
over again until you can do them in your sleep. Try and head off in
different directions each time and explore new territory.

[Robert M. Gary]

The definition of cross country changes based on what you are using the
time for. The definition of cross country for an instrument applicant
is different than the cross country for an ATP applicant. The
requirement must be met when you apply for your rating. You can (and
will) build cross country time during your instrument training.

-Robert, CFII

wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> A quick question about getting the Instrument rating: you have to have
> 50 hours of cross-country pilot-in-command time, right? How is
> cross-country time defined for this purpose? I couldn't find anything
> in the FAR AIM that defines it. I guess maybe it is the same as the
> definition for the Private, which I believe is flying to an airport at
> least 50nm from the start point.
>
> Does anyone know for sure? Also do you have to land at another airport
> for it to be cross-country or do you just have to go there?
>
> If anyone has the precise definition I'd appreciate it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom

[Gary Drescher]

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> It's very easy to fall into a rut of doing the same approaches over and
> over again until you can do them in your sleep. Try and head off in
> different directions each time and explore new territory.

Yup. Also, use a flight simulator on your computer to try approaches that
are too distant to fly for real, in weather conditions that are more
challenging than you'd want to confront for real.

--Gary

[Matt Whiting]

Gary Drescher wrote:
> "Roy Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>It's very easy to fall into a rut of doing the same approaches over and
>>over again until you can do them in your sleep. Try and head off in
>>different directions each time and explore new territory.
>
>
> Yup. Also, use a flight simulator on your computer to try approaches that
> are too distant to fly for real, in weather conditions that are more
> challenging than you'd want to confront for real.

Speaking of flight simulators, does anyone know of a way to get a
KLN-89B GPS for MS Flight Simulator?

Matt