KLN94 "Flagged" When Database Out of Date

[AMW]

My cartridge update for Sept didn't arrive and my database went out of
date - I called Honeywell and they are reshipping, but in the mean
time I've run into a problem. The KLN 94 came up in Nav mode like
normal for the first three days of September, but then on the fourth
day, it came up "flagged" and refused to go into Nav mode. It passed
the internal self check tests although didn't show a radial for the
current position. The KMD880 showed the flight plan but with the
message no external position. Has anyone else had this kind of a
problem when a database went over cycle..... or am I into something
more serious?

AMW

[Peter R.]

AMW wrote:

> Has anyone else had this kind of a
> problem when a database went over cycle..... or am I into something
> more serious?

The KLN94 GPS databases in two of my local flight school's late model
C172s are always out of date, sometimes by several months. The GPS's
do not flag.

Using this as a guide, I would suggest you talk to your avionics
specialist about a more serious problem.

--
Peter

[john smith]

AMW wrote:
> My cartridge update for Sept didn't arrive and my database went out of
> date - I called Honeywell and they are reshipping, but in the mean
> time I've run into a problem. The KLN 94 came up in Nav mode like
> normal for the first three days of September, but then on the fourth
> day, it came up "flagged" and refused to go into Nav mode. It passed
> the internal self check tests although didn't show a radial for the
> current position. The KMD880 showed the flight plan but with the
> message no external position. Has anyone else had this kind of a
> problem when a database went over cycle..... or am I into something
> more serious?

The GPS should work normally, but you will not be able to use the
approaches.
If the GPS is unusable, something else is wrong.

[Peter Clark]

On 6 Sep 2004 04:52:08 -0700, (AMW) wrote:

>My cartridge update for Sept didn't arrive and my database went out of
>date - I called Honeywell and they are reshipping, but in the mean
>time I've run into a problem. The KLN 94 came up in Nav mode like
>normal for the first three days of September, but then on the fourth
>day, it came up "flagged" and refused to go into Nav mode. It passed
>the internal self check tests although didn't show a radial for the
>current position. The KMD880 showed the flight plan but with the
>message no external position. Has anyone else had this kind of a
>problem when a database went over cycle..... or am I into something
>more serious?

Do you have a flight plan loaded in FPL0? If there's no flight plan
(or a direct-to? I forget right now) the unit has nothing to guide you
to and flags.

The database going out of date won't cause the unit to go into
+F-L-A-G+ mode.

Luck.
P

[Mike Rapoport]

Or perhaps it can be setup to do this.

Mike
MU-2

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> AMW wrote:
>
>> Has anyone else had this kind of a
>> problem when a database went over cycle..... or am I into something
>> more serious?
>
> The KLN94 GPS databases in two of my local flight school's late model
> C172s are always out of date, sometimes by several months. The GPS's
> do not flag.
>
> Using this as a guide, I would suggest you talk to your avionics
> specialist about a more serious problem.
>
> --
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>

[Peter Clark]

FWIW, watching the shop guy configure the replacement for my bad 94
there wasn't anything like that anywhere in the configuration screens.

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 02:29:24 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
> wrote:

>Or perhaps it can be setup to do this.
>
>Mike
>MU-2
>
>"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
>> AMW wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone else had this kind of a
>>> problem when a database went over cycle..... or am I into something
>>> more serious?
>>
>> The KLN94 GPS databases in two of my local flight school's late model
>> C172s are always out of date, sometimes by several months. The GPS's
>> do not flag.
>>
>> Using this as a guide, I would suggest you talk to your avionics
>> specialist about a more serious problem.
>>
>> --
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

[Maik]

Sometimes you will find hidden functions after a few keystrokes which
are only described in the installation and config-manual. Maybe the 94er
has some.

Peter Clark wrote:

> FWIW, watching the shop guy configure the replacement for my bad 94
> there wasn't anything like that anywhere in the configuration screens.
>
> On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 02:29:24 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Or perhaps it can be setup to do this.
>>
>>Mike
>>MU-2
>>
>>"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>AMW wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Has anyone else had this kind of a
>>>>problem when a database went over cycle..... or am I into something
>>>>more serious?
>>>
>>>The KLN94 GPS databases in two of my local flight school's late model
>>>C172s are always out of date, sometimes by several months. The GPS's
>>>do not flag.
>>>
>>>Using this as a guide, I would suggest you talk to your avionics
>>>specialist about a more serious problem.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Mike Rapoport]

Some of the installation options are in the wiring.

Mike
MU-2

"Peter Clark" > wrote in message
...
> FWIW, watching the shop guy configure the replacement for my bad 94
> there wasn't anything like that anywhere in the configuration screens.
>
> On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 02:29:24 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
> > wrote:
>
>>Or perhaps it can be setup to do this.
>>
>>Mike
>>MU-2
>>
>>"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
>>> AMW wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone else had this kind of a
>>>> problem when a database went over cycle..... or am I into something
>>>> more serious?
>>>
>>> The KLN94 GPS databases in two of my local flight school's late model
>>> C172s are always out of date, sometimes by several months. The GPS's
>>> do not flag.
>>>
>>> Using this as a guide, I would suggest you talk to your avionics
>>> specialist about a more serious problem.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Peter Clark]

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 14:56:46 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
> wrote:

>Some of the installation options are in the wiring.

OK, I happened to be in the shop today for a transponder check and
asked. There are no harness strapping or configuration wires on the
KLN94, it's all done through the maint pages (install manual page
2-65), and there's no selection that can be made in the maint pages to
make the unit disable itself just because the database is expired.

Would be nice if the original poster would report the status to see
what it was?

>Mike
>MU-2
>
>"Peter Clark" > wrote in message
...
>> FWIW, watching the shop guy configure the replacement for my bad 94
>> there wasn't anything like that anywhere in the configuration screens.
>>
>> On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 02:29:24 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Or perhaps it can be setup to do this.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>MU-2
>>>
>>>"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
>>>> AMW wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone else had this kind of a
>>>>> problem when a database went over cycle..... or am I into something
>>>>> more serious?
>>>>
>>>> The KLN94 GPS databases in two of my local flight school's late model
>>>> C172s are always out of date, sometimes by several months. The GPS's
>>>> do not flag.
>>>>
>>>> Using this as a guide, I would suggest you talk to your avionics
>>>> specialist about a more serious problem.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[AMW]

(AMW) wrote in message >...
> My cartridge update for Sept didn't arrive and my database went out of
> date - I called Honeywell and they are reshipping, but in the mean
> time I've run into a problem. The KLN 94 came up in Nav mode like
> normal for the first three days of September, but then on the fourth
> day, it came up "flagged" and refused to go into Nav mode. It passed
> the internal self check tests although didn't show a radial for the
> current position. The KMD880 showed the flight plan but with the
> message no external position. Has anyone else had this kind of a
> problem when a database went over cycle..... or am I into something
> more serious?
>
> AMW

So folks here's a copy of an email I sent to Jack that explains what
the problem eventually turned out to be - the database out of date was
just a coincidence. Thanks for all your help:

"I'm at the techs as we speak, and have been with them every
troubleshooting step of the way, including utting a loaner on the
airplane.....which didn't work. Conclusion, a faulty antenna. And when
it was replaced, like magic it was back on line. I guess the antenna
is 'active' meaning it has some electronics in it that can
fail.....so, looks like the problem is solved. I'll know for sure
after I've flown a few hours, but the unit has been off and on 7 or 8
times and seems to come up normally. Mike "

[Jack Cunniff]

You see, I've got an IIMorrow NMS2001, and it suddenly stopped working
late last month, also with the "NAV FLAGGED" symptom, just like another
newsgroup poster had recently had. I was hoping that whatever was ailing
Mike's system was identical to mine, perhaps a GPS date code change (or
rollover).

My GPS had been working perfectly (albeit with a year-old database and
much older firmware) until last month. (How old's the firmware? I'm warned
about ARSA's!)

Garmin (who took over IIMorrow support when they bought UPSAT) said that
the issue was probably a corrupt almanac, but after setting the date to 1
Jan 2004 at startup, and feeding the GPS its location, it then could give
navigation info to all the waypoints I tried entering. (The GPS took
a long time when first coming up, probably doing an autolocate just
the same.) 45 minutes later, I should have had a complete almanac
downloaded. A power cycle later, and it was again NAV FLAGGED and unable
to locate.

I'm thinking it isn't the antenna, since it does eventually "see"
satellites and sense position and give accurate nav info to other
waypoints.

Before I take it to the shop, I'm wondering if anyone else has ideas about
the root cause of the problem. (And don't say I'm cheap, 'cause I just put
in a new attitude indicator last week. :-)

-Jack

[Peter Clark]

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:37:14 +0000 (UTC), Jack Cunniff
> wrote:

>You see, I've got an IIMorrow NMS2001, and it suddenly stopped working
>late last month, also with the "NAV FLAGGED" symptom, just like another
>newsgroup poster had recently had. I was hoping that whatever was ailing
>Mike's system was identical to mine, perhaps a GPS date code change (or
>rollover).
>
>My GPS had been working perfectly (albeit with a year-old database and
>much older firmware) until last month. (How old's the firmware? I'm warned
>about ARSA's!)
>
>Garmin (who took over IIMorrow support when they bought UPSAT) said that
>the issue was probably a corrupt almanac, but after setting the date to 1
>Jan 2004 at startup, and feeding the GPS its location, it then could give
>navigation info to all the waypoints I tried entering. (The GPS took
>a long time when first coming up, probably doing an autolocate just
>the same.) 45 minutes later, I should have had a complete almanac
>downloaded. A power cycle later, and it was again NAV FLAGGED and unable
>to locate.

Do these units have an internal CMOS battery which might be dead?

[Jack Cunniff]

Peter Clark > writes:
>>
>>My GPS had been working perfectly (albeit with a year-old database and
>>much older firmware) until last month. (How old's the firmware? I'm warned
>>about ARSA's!)

>Do these units have an internal CMOS battery which might be dead?

DING!

Reviewing the fantastic manual, (Yes, F is for Fantastic) I find that
there is indeed a statement saying that the NMC memory is maintained by a
lithium battery with a 5-10 year lifetime. It's not a user-replacable
item.

So - I'm off to the shop, with not just a symptom, but also a pointer to a
solution. That definitely could be the solution.

Thanks for your help, Peter!

-Jack