How to back out FPL changes on GNX-480?

[Roy Smith]

It never ceases to amaze me how I keep finding something I don't know how
to do on the GNX-480 after all this time.

Had a flight plan going when I got a pretty significant re-route in flight.
I went into FPL, hit EDIT, and started deleting waypoints with the CLR
button. After a while, I realized I had deleted more than I wanted to, and
that's where I got stuck.

I know the newly edited flight plan isn't activated until you hit EXEC.
But is there any way to just throw away what you've got in the edit buffer
and revert back to the last executed flight plan to start editing again
from there? The best I could come up with was to re-enter the waypoints I
had accidentally deleted, then enter the new ones, then hit EXEC.

[Ron Natalie]

Roy Smith wrote:
> It never ceases to amaze me how I keep finding something I don't know how
> to do on the GNX-480 after all this time.
>
Hey Roy, I suggest you might want to join the YAHOO GNS480 owners group.
Lots of useful information there.

When you go the the intial FPL screen (you may have to push BACK on
the view screen), It will at th the top show:

Active
Modified (in green)
-----------------------
(list of flight plans in the library)

You can two things at this point. You can press CLR
at this point and it will ditch the Modified plan (ENTER for
yes, CLR for no will pop up).

You can also go back to looking at the Active plan by turning
the BIG knob to select Active and then press view.

[Roy Smith]

In article >,
Ron Natalie > wrote:

> Roy Smith wrote:
> > It never ceases to amaze me how I keep finding something I don't know how
> > to do on the GNX-480 after all this time.
> >
> Hey Roy, I suggest you might want to join the YAHOO GNS480 owners group.
> Lots of useful information there.

I didn't know it existed; thanks for the pointer!

> When you go the the intial FPL screen (you may have to push BACK on
> the view screen), It will at th the top show:
>
> Active
> Modified (in green)
> -----------------------
> (list of flight plans in the library)

Yeah, I got this far, but it never occurred to me to hit CLR at that point.
Why don't they just have a "Cancel" or "Revert" button at the same page
where they have "Save" and "Exec". That would be a lot more logical to me.

[Ron Natalie]

Roy Smith wrote:

> Yeah, I got this far, but it never occurred to me to hit CLR at that point.
> Why don't they just have a "Cancel" or "Revert" button at the same page
> where they have "Save" and "Exec". That would be a lot more logical to me.

CLR is the general delete key on the 480. Another cute feature on the
CLR key is that you can highlight the "discontinuity" in your flight
plan and just "CLR" it. The box then replaces the discontinuity with
a direct routing between the two discontinuous legs.

[Roy Smith]

In article >,
Ron Natalie > wrote:

> Roy Smith wrote:
>
> > Yeah, I got this far, but it never occurred to me to hit CLR at that point.
> >
> > Why don't they just have a "Cancel" or "Revert" button at the same page
> > where they have "Save" and "Exec". That would be a lot more logical to me.
>
> CLR is the general delete key on the 480. Another cute feature on the
> CLR key is that you can highlight the "discontinuity" in your flight
> plan and just "CLR" it. The box then replaces the discontinuity with
> a direct routing between the two discontinuous legs.

Yeah, that one I know.

BTW, congrats on the IR, Ron. I was starting to wonder if you'd ever get
around to it :-)

[Mike Adams[_2_]]

Roy Smith > wrote:

> BTW, congrats on the IR, Ron. I was starting to wonder if you'd ever
> get around to it :-)
>

Yes, I'll echo that. Congratulations. I didn't realize you have a 480 in the Navion. I have a 480 as well, and
am very happy with it. I got the IR a few years ago, and I've often wondered whether it would be easier or
harder with the GPS. At the time I did the rating I just had two Nav/com's and ADF, so was limited to the
traditional approach types. GPS approaches are definitely easier than non-precision NDB approaches,
and checking cross radials with a VOR is definitely a lot more work. OTOH, with the GPS you can get
fixated on the button pushing and get tangled up in getting the box set up the way you want it.

Another handy function on that main flight plan page is the ability to Reverse your flight plan. For simple
point to point VFR flying, that turns out to be quite convenient.

Mike

[Ron Natalie]

Mike Adams wrote:
> Roy Smith > wrote:
>
>> BTW, congrats on the IR, Ron. I was starting to wonder if you'd ever
>> get around to it :-)
>>
>
> Yes, I'll echo that. Congratulations. I didn't realize you have a 480 in the Navion. I have a 480 as well, and
> am very happy with it. I got the IR a few years ago, and I've often wondered whether it would be easier or
> harder with the GPS.

I've had the 480 in the plane for a bit over a year now along with an
MX20 and CHARTVIEW. My instructor was pretty adept at teaching the
480 "button mashing" and we practiced on the 480 emulator on my lap
top while flying the desktop simulator he brought. Between his
instruction and my previous experience it wasn't hard.

The moving map makes the rating almost too easy :-). It certainly
makes the partial panel approach a trivial issue, just zoom up the
480 screen and watch the pseudo-HSI and bearing to station. The
only caveat I can say is be sure to follow the purple line on the
MX20 AND NOT the lines on the approach plate. There's sometimes
a lag in the plate realigning with the course and we had a bit of
confusion because the KSHD GPS23 has a "not to scale" piece on the
chart which led me to inadvertantly enter the hold early (oops...
crosscheck, crosscheck).

I did almost all my training before I realized the volume on the
alerts was turned down. I didn't have the little lady going
"bong missed approach" until the last day. The thing also saved
my butt on the checkride. I dutifully loaded up all my radios
with com and nav freqs on the ground prior to taking off. When
I selected the ILS, it goes "Boing" and tells me it's put the ILS
freq into the flip flop for me. Ooops...the one I've dialed in
is a megahertz off. I would have caught that when I ID'd the
thing, but I appreciate the explicit heads up.

The only thing we couldn't figure out an easy thing for is how to
back it up to the holding pattern if you let it sequence out of
it while circling an additional time. You can turn the FPL back
to the holding entry (but not the hold) where it thinks you
want to go direct to the fix and hold again. We just ignore
the GPS proposed nav instead and fly around one more time and
let it catch up with us when we finally go inbound.

The only other fun thing is my 480 goes to the HSI. During
partial panel GPS approaches the stickies cover up the CDI
on the HSI. The CDI on the 480 goes away during GPS approaches
as well. Again, I just zoom up the display and drive the
purple line.

[Roy Smith]

In article >,
Ron Natalie > wrote:

> The only thing we couldn't figure out an easy thing for is how to
> back it up to the holding pattern if you let it sequence out of
> it while circling an additional time. You can turn the FPL back
> to the holding entry (but not the hold) where it thinks you
> want to go direct to the fix and hold again. We just ignore
> the GPS proposed nav instead and fly around one more time and
> let it catch up with us when we finally go inbound.

Hit -D->, scroll up or down to the holding fix, then select Hold from the
menu (might have to hit More once or twice to get to the right page).
Watch out for how it describes holds: the GPS *always* uses "course to" to
describe the inbound leg. If the fix is a VOR, ATC will have probably said
"on the XXX radial", which is essentially "course from".

My experience is that most people never really learn most of the -D->
functions. They get "Direct" and "Dest", but rarely explore the OBS, CRS
To, CRS From, Hold, etc.

I once actually found a use for the Parallel Track stuff. Coming back to
HPN, ATC gave me "Direct Tappan Zee Bridge". The bridge isn't in the
database, but I was heading south and I know the bridge is about 5 miles
west of the airport, so I just put in "direct HPN" and selected a parallel
track offset 5 miles to the right :-)

[Ron Natalie]

Roy Smith wrote:

> Hit -D->, scroll up or down to the holding fix, then select Hold from the
> menu (might have to hit More once or twice to get to the right page).
> Watch out for how it describes holds: the GPS *always* uses "course to" to
> describe the inbound leg. If the fix is a VOR, ATC will have probably said
> "on the XXX radial", which is essentially "course from".

That does the same thing really as just sequencing back to the holding
fix on the expanded approach. It assumes you are want to go to
immediately to the holding fix and perform the pattern entry.

>
> I once actually found a use for the Parallel Track stuff. Coming back to
> HPN, ATC gave me "Direct Tappan Zee Bridge". The bridge isn't in the
> database, but I was heading south and I know the bridge is about 5 miles
> west of the airport, so I just put in "direct HPN" and selected a parallel
> track offset 5 miles to the right :-)

Time for some user waypoints :-).

[Roy Smith]

In article >,
Ron Natalie > wrote:

> Roy Smith wrote:
>
> > Hit -D->, scroll up or down to the holding fix, then select Hold from the
> > menu (might have to hit More once or twice to get to the right page).

> That does the same thing really as just sequencing back to the holding
> fix on the expanded approach. It assumes you are want to go to
> immediately to the holding fix and perform the pattern entry.

OK, I'm confused. Isn't that what you wanted to do?

[Ron Natalie]

Roy Smith wrote:
> In article >,
> Ron Natalie > wrote:
>
>> Roy Smith wrote:
>>
>>> Hit -D->, scroll up or down to the holding fix, then select Hold from the
>>> menu (might have to hit More once or twice to get to the right page).
>
>> That does the same thing really as just sequencing back to the holding
>> fix on the expanded approach. It assumes you are want to go to
>> immediately to the holding fix and perform the pattern entry.
>
> OK, I'm confused. Isn't that what you wanted to do?

No, I've never left the hold. I'm in the middle of
turning to the outbound course and the thing thinks
I'm off course heading for the runway. If turn it
back to the hold point it wants me to turn inbound
to the fix again immediately, rather than continue
the outbound leg.

Like I said, it's no big thing. I've obviously
am not using the GPS for guidance if I've managed to
turn outbound and it eventually catches on when
I exit the hold for real, but it would seem like
with all the bells and whistles in this box there
would be a way to resume the holding sequence directly.

[Mike Adams[_2_]]

Ron Natalie > wrote:

> it would seem like
> with all the bells and whistles in this box there
> would be a way to resume the holding sequence directly.
>

Interesting discussion. I can't say for sure that I've tried it, but what happens if you hit SUSP whil inbound
on the hold the first time around? It should stay active without sequencing after crossing the fix.

I agree with the comment about the usefulness of the various D-> functions. I find Fly Leg and OBS
mode especially useful at times.

I didn't have the 480 at the time of my IR checkride. I almost blew the ride on an impromptu DME arc
entry to an ILS (diabolical DE - no arc transition on this approach, so this was strictly extemporaneous).
Situational awareness on Arcs and Holds is a piece of cake with that map display.

Mike

[Mike Adams[_2_]]

Mike Adams > wrote:

> I can't say for sure that I've tried it, but what happens if you hit
> SUSP whil inbound
> on the hold the first time around? It should stay active without
> sequencing after crossing the fix.
>

I thought I remembered seeing this. I just tried it on the Sim, and if you hit SUSP while inbound to the hold
fix, it brings the holding pattern back. The designers of this box really thought of almost everything. I'm
always impressed how it just does what you'd expect it to.

Mike

[Ron Natalie]

Mike Adams wrote:

>
> Interesting discussion. I can't say for sure that I've tried it, but what happens if you hit SUSP whil inbound
> on the hold the first time around? It should stay active without sequencing after crossing the fix.

If you hit SUSP before crossing the holding fix, it will indeed fly
the hold forever (until you un-SUSP it).


> I didn't have the 480 at the time of my IR checkride. I almost blew the ride on an impromptu DME arc
> entry to an ILS (diabolical DE - no arc transition on this approach, so this was strictly extemporaneous).
> Situational awareness on Arcs and Holds is a piece of cake with that map display.
>
Yep, I could imagine doing my training/checkride without the Autopilot
but you'll have to pry the moving map out of my cold dead fingers.