Cessna 150 with STOL comments requested

[wise purchaser]

Greetings!!!

I hope that I am not becomming a bother to the group but I have a
question:

I have my own airstrip. it's a 20 foot wide 1350 foot long crusher
run gravel runway.

I had the runway built using Driveway fiber mat (fabric) ( cow carpet)
laid down on the bare dirt, then Crusher run gravel poured on the
fiber mat, spread out with a dozer, then compacted with an ashphalt
roller then graded with a road grader.

The runway is very hard surface you can drive a car on it and it will
not budge!!! dry or wet no tracks left behind in the gravel.

I have a stock1973 Cessna 150L with a new 0 -200A engine. On warm
days: den alt about 3100 feet with full fuel with myself in the
airplane it gets off the ground at about 700 feet ground run with 10
flaps zero wind. I hold the airplane in ground effect untill the
very end of the runway to clear a 4 feet high Barbed wire fence then
start a SLOW climb. ( by the way, after the barb wire fence is a 2000
foot wide flat pasture that is owned by my neighbor; all I have to do
is get over the fence and I am all right plenty of open space to set
down on!!)

I have noticed that with 20 flaps will get the plane into the air
with a much shorter ground run but the work load is very high you have
to start to work off the flaps as soon as you break ground: As the
speed comes up so do the flaps in little increments till I hit 10
flaps.

It seems that what ever the flap setting I use the Airspeed over the
barb wire fence is ALWAYS no higher than 60 mph! just 6 MPH over the
stall speed. I can get off in 500 feet with 20 flaps stay in ground
effect longer milking up the flaps, but still arrive at the end with
60 MPH???

Is this normal or should the airplane be faster? should I see if she
will climb or is it better to stay in ground effect till I clear the
fence? I clear the fence in ground effect at 15 feet of altitude
give or take a few feet.

Question: if I add a STOL kit to my stock 150 will it help in this
situation?? I am unsure if the airplane will be able to takeoff,
clear the fence with two people: my daughter and myself.

This may sound kooky but I am thinking of full fuel, myself and one 80
pound bag of concrete in the co pilots seat do a take off if it works,
then place another bag on the seat (160 pounds total) than do it again
( with FULL respect to den alt and wind) .

I am looking for a 150 with 150 HP engine with a STOL kit installed.
see prior post for details this is why I want a 150/150 with STOL.

Comments thanks!!!!!

[Jon Kraus]

I am a little bit confused as to your postings. In your earlier post
"Almost Taken to the cleaners!" you said "I am returning to aircraft
ownership after 15 years." And in this post you say "I have a stock1973
Cessna 150L with a new 0 -200A engine" WTF? If you already own a
150 with a new engine why would you say that you are returning to
ownership after 15 years? And, why would you be entertaining overpaying
for a runout 150 when you already have one? Please tell me it's not
because the runout one has a STOL kit..

20 degree of flaps is not recommended for either Soft or Shortfield
takeoffs for the 150 but you already know that right? If you are
getting into the air in about half the runway length you should be able
to climb out at Vx at around 65 mph. According to the POH you should be
able to clear a 50' obstacle at 1385 feet. In other words, by the end
of your runway you should in therory be way over the 4 foot fence.

You also said that your stall speed is 66 mph. Are you sure about that?
I thought it was more like 45 mph.

Good luck. It must be cool having a runway at your house.

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP


wise purchaser wrote:

> Greetings!!!
>
> I hope that I am not becomming a bother to the group but I have a
> question:
>
> I have my own airstrip. it's a 20 foot wide 1350 foot long crusher
> run gravel runway.
>
> I had the runway built using Driveway fiber mat (fabric) ( cow carpet)
> laid down on the bare dirt, then Crusher run gravel poured on the
> fiber mat, spread out with a dozer, then compacted with an ashphalt
> roller then graded with a road grader.
>
> The runway is very hard surface you can drive a car on it and it will
> not budge!!! dry or wet no tracks left behind in the gravel.
>
> I have a stock1973 Cessna 150L with a new 0 -200A engine. On warm
> days: den alt about 3100 feet with full fuel with myself in the
> airplane it gets off the ground at about 700 feet ground run with 10
> flaps zero wind. I hold the airplane in ground effect untill the
> very end of the runway to clear a 4 feet high Barbed wire fence then
> start a SLOW climb. ( by the way, after the barb wire fence is a 2000
> foot wide flat pasture that is owned by my neighbor; all I have to do
> is get over the fence and I am all right plenty of open space to set
> down on!!)
>
> I have noticed that with 20 flaps will get the plane into the air
> with a much shorter ground run but the work load is very high you have
> to start to work off the flaps as soon as you break ground: As the
> speed comes up so do the flaps in little increments till I hit 10
> flaps.
>
> It seems that what ever the flap setting I use the Airspeed over the
> barb wire fence is ALWAYS no higher than 60 mph! just 6 MPH over the
> stall speed. I can get off in 500 feet with 20 flaps stay in ground
> effect longer milking up the flaps, but still arrive at the end with
> 60 MPH???
>
> Is this normal or should the airplane be faster? should I see if she
> will climb or is it better to stay in ground effect till I clear the
> fence? I clear the fence in ground effect at 15 feet of altitude
> give or take a few feet.
>
> Question: if I add a STOL kit to my stock 150 will it help in this
> situation?? I am unsure if the airplane will be able to takeoff,
> clear the fence with two people: my daughter and myself.
>
> This may sound kooky but I am thinking of full fuel, myself and one 80
> pound bag of concrete in the co pilots seat do a take off if it works,
> then place another bag on the seat (160 pounds total) than do it again
> ( with FULL respect to den alt and wind) .
>
> I am looking for a 150 with 150 HP engine with a STOL kit installed.
> see prior post for details this is why I want a 150/150 with STOL.
>
> Comments thanks!!!!!
>

[Kyle Boatright]

"wise purchaser" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Greetings!!!
>
> I hope that I am not becomming a bother to the group but I have a
> question:
>
> I have my own airstrip. it's a 20 foot wide 1350 foot long crusher
> run gravel runway.
>
> I had the runway built using Driveway fiber mat (fabric) ( cow carpet)
> laid down on the bare dirt, then Crusher run gravel poured on the
> fiber mat, spread out with a dozer, then compacted with an ashphalt
> roller then graded with a road grader.
>
> The runway is very hard surface you can drive a car on it and it will
> not budge!!! dry or wet no tracks left behind in the gravel.
>
> I have a stock1973 Cessna 150L with a new 0 -200A engine. On warm
> days: den alt about 3100 feet with full fuel with myself in the
> airplane it gets off the ground at about 700 feet ground run with 10
> flaps zero wind. I hold the airplane in ground effect untill the
> very end of the runway to clear a 4 feet high Barbed wire fence then
> start a SLOW climb. ( by the way, after the barb wire fence is a 2000
> foot wide flat pasture that is owned by my neighbor; all I have to do
> is get over the fence and I am all right plenty of open space to set
> down on!!)
>
> I have noticed that with 20 flaps will get the plane into the air
> with a much shorter ground run but the work load is very high you have
> to start to work off the flaps as soon as you break ground: As the
> speed comes up so do the flaps in little increments till I hit 10
> flaps.
>
> It seems that what ever the flap setting I use the Airspeed over the
> barb wire fence is ALWAYS no higher than 60 mph! just 6 MPH over the
> stall speed. I can get off in 500 feet with 20 flaps stay in ground
> effect longer milking up the flaps, but still arrive at the end with
> 60 MPH???
>
> Is this normal or should the airplane be faster? should I see if she
> will climb or is it better to stay in ground effect till I clear the
> fence? I clear the fence in ground effect at 15 feet of altitude
> give or take a few feet.
>
> Question: if I add a STOL kit to my stock 150 will it help in this
> situation?? I am unsure if the airplane will be able to takeoff,
> clear the fence with two people: my daughter and myself.
>
> This may sound kooky but I am thinking of full fuel, myself and one 80
> pound bag of concrete in the co pilots seat do a take off if it works,
> then place another bag on the seat (160 pounds total) than do it again
> ( with FULL respect to den alt and wind) .
>
> I am looking for a 150 with 150 HP engine with a STOL kit installed.
> see prior post for details this is why I want a 150/150 with STOL.
>
> Comments thanks!!!!!

I'm puzzled. Yesterday, you were "returning to aircraft ownership after 15
years". Today you have a stock C-150 and have enough experience with it on
your private runway to question its takeoff performance.

My initial reaction to your first post was that it looked suspiciously
troll-like. This post only increases my curiosity.

What is your real story?

KB

[Newps]

wise purchaser wrote:


>
> I am looking for a 150 with 150 HP engine with a STOL kit installed.
> see prior post for details this is why I want a 150/150 with STOL.


Funny you should ask. A friend of mine just wrecked her 150/150 with a
STOL kit on a 1300 foot strip at her home. It was marginal with two
people aboard. The strip is at 3200 MSL so higher than yours but not
that much different. The 150/150 is no good, a regular 150 is a
hopelessly poor choice. Can't be made to fly straight in straight and
level flight, the rudder is too small. She had the 1960 Patroller
model, that one had big tanks. You got the wrong plane. You need at
least an older 172 for your mission.

[150flivver]

Newps wrote:
>
> Funny you should ask. A friend of mine just wrecked her 150/150 with a
> STOL kit on a 1300 foot strip at her home. It was marginal with two
> people aboard. The strip is at 3200 MSL so higher than yours but not
> that much different. The 150/150 is no good, a regular 150 is a
> hopelessly poor choice. Can't be made to fly straight in straight and
> level flight, the rudder is too small. She had the 1960 Patroller
> model, that one had big tanks. You got the wrong plane. You need at
> least an older 172 for your mission.

What were the temp and winds when your friend wrecked her 150/150? If
she had full long range tanks, two people and a hot day with winds that
weren't helping--not too many airplanes will save a pilot from a bad
decision. A 150HP engine makes a stock 150 a spritely performer but
not sprite enough if you're overgross on a soft, high strip on a hot
day! A 150/150 will outperform an older 172 so I don't know what Newps
is talkin' about. VGs will help out a bit without the shock to the
wallet a full STOL kit will have.

[Montblack[_1_]]

("wise purchaser" wrote)
> I hold the airplane in ground effect untill the very end of the runway to
> clear a 4 feet high Barbed wire fence then start a SLOW climb. ( by the
> way, after the barb wire fence is a 2000 foot wide flat pasture that is
> owned by my neighbor; all I have to do is get over the fence and I am all
> right plenty of open space to set down on!!)


I would ask the neighbor if it were alright to install (two) 30-ft sliding
gates.

The things roll on wheels - off to each side. Put down some cattle/deer
grates, if you like - for when the fence is open. Use a timer (or a garage
door remote) to close the fence after you're clear.

There, now you have open access to all of that open space.


Montblack ---- too much fun!
Or: The fence section could be held up by some weight(s). Get an old
boat-trailer winch, some 1/2 inch flex tubing or PVC (to bury next to the
runway), 1,400 ft of (550) parachute cord, a couple of pulleys, and about 10
hinges for the base of the fence posts... $200 tops.

For the visual, think Batmobile exiting the Batcave at the start of each
episode.
http://www.1966batmobile.com/cave.jpg

[kontiki]

Sounds like what you really need is a 172... or maybe even a 182.
They are both good short field performers but will give you lots
of reserve climb ability, especially the 182 if you are worried
about full loads on High Density ALT days.

You might be just trying to fly a 150 too close to the edge of what it
is capable of doing.

[.Blueskies.]

Hard surface runway you should be using no flaps for takeoff...


"wise purchaser" > wrote in message ups.com...
: Greetings!!!
:
: I hope that I am not becomming a bother to the group but I have a
: question:
:
: I have my own airstrip. it's a 20 foot wide 1350 foot long crusher
: run gravel runway.
:
: I had the runway built using Driveway fiber mat (fabric) ( cow carpet)
: laid down on the bare dirt, then Crusher run gravel poured on the
: fiber mat, spread out with a dozer, then compacted with an ashphalt
: roller then graded with a road grader.
:
: The runway is very hard surface you can drive a car on it and it will
: not budge!!! dry or wet no tracks left behind in the gravel.
:
: I have a stock1973 Cessna 150L with a new 0 -200A engine. On warm
: days: den alt about 3100 feet with full fuel with myself in the
: airplane it gets off the ground at about 700 feet ground run with 10
: flaps zero wind. I hold the airplane in ground effect untill the
: very end of the runway to clear a 4 feet high Barbed wire fence then
: start a SLOW climb. ( by the way, after the barb wire fence is a 2000
: foot wide flat pasture that is owned by my neighbor; all I have to do
: is get over the fence and I am all right plenty of open space to set
: down on!!)
:
: I have noticed that with 20 flaps will get the plane into the air
: with a much shorter ground run but the work load is very high you have
: to start to work off the flaps as soon as you break ground: As the
: speed comes up so do the flaps in little increments till I hit 10
: flaps.
:
: It seems that what ever the flap setting I use the Airspeed over the
: barb wire fence is ALWAYS no higher than 60 mph! just 6 MPH over the
: stall speed. I can get off in 500 feet with 20 flaps stay in ground
: effect longer milking up the flaps, but still arrive at the end with
: 60 MPH???
:
: Is this normal or should the airplane be faster? should I see if she
: will climb or is it better to stay in ground effect till I clear the
: fence? I clear the fence in ground effect at 15 feet of altitude
: give or take a few feet.
:
: Question: if I add a STOL kit to my stock 150 will it help in this
: situation?? I am unsure if the airplane will be able to takeoff,
: clear the fence with two people: my daughter and myself.
:
: This may sound kooky but I am thinking of full fuel, myself and one 80
: pound bag of concrete in the co pilots seat do a take off if it works,
: then place another bag on the seat (160 pounds total) than do it again
: ( with FULL respect to den alt and wind) .
:
: I am looking for a 150 with 150 HP engine with a STOL kit installed.
: see prior post for details this is why I want a 150/150 with STOL.
:
: Comments thanks!!!!!
:

[Vaughn Simon]

".Blueskies." > wrote in message
m...
> Hard surface runway you should be using no flaps for takeoff...

We are talking about short fields here. The short field technique for the
150 is the same regardless of runway surface. I don't have a handy POH for a
150, but the 152 POH states that you use 0 or 10 degrees of flaps for a "normal"
takeoff, and 10 degrees for a short field takeoff. The only takeoff distance
chart presented assumes short field technique.

For the record, at 3000 feet pressure altitude and standard conditions, a
stock 152 needs at least 1600 feet to clear a 50 foot obstacle. You will be
well over halfway down that strip before you can expect your wheels to break
ground. Assuming the numbers for the 150 look about the same, I would not try
the OPs 150 and 1350 foot strip with MY daughter in the right seat, and it is
doubtful that I would even try it solo.

Landing looks better, as long as you touch down (with short field technique
@<54 KIAS) in the first half of the runway, you should be OK.

Vaughn

[Dale]

In article >,
"Vaughn Simon" > wrote:

>I don't have a handy POH for a 150

If you did you would see that for a short-field takeoff you should have
the flaps UP.

[Vaughn Simon]

"Dale" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Vaughn Simon" > wrote:
>
>>I don't have a handy POH for a 150
>
> If you did you would see that for a short-field takeoff you should have
> the flaps UP.

Fair enough. How do the takeoff performance numbers compare?

Vaughn

[.Blueskies.]

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote in message
...
:
: ".Blueskies." > wrote in message
: m...
: > Hard surface runway you should be using no flaps for takeoff...
:
: We are talking about short fields here. The short field technique for the
: 150 is the same regardless of runway surface. I don't have a handy POH for a
: 150, but the 152 POH states that you use 0 or 10 degrees of flaps for a "normal"
: takeoff, and 10 degrees for a short field takeoff. The only takeoff distance
: chart presented assumes short field technique.
:
: For the record, at 3000 feet pressure altitude and standard conditions, a
: stock 152 needs at least 1600 feet to clear a 50 foot obstacle. You will be
: well over halfway down that strip before you can expect your wheels to break
: ground. Assuming the numbers for the 150 look about the same, I would not try
: the OPs 150 and 1350 foot strip with MY daughter in the right seat, and it is
: doubtful that I would even try it solo.
:
: Landing looks better, as long as you touch down (with short field technique
: @<54 KIAS) in the first half of the runway, you should be OK.
:
: Vaughn
:
:

1975 c-150 'owner manual'

TO distance - flaps retracted - hard surface

1600 gross 70 mph IAS @50'
sea level 2500'/50°F 5000'/51°F 7500'/32°F
zero wind 735/1385 910/1660 1115/1985 1360/2440 ground run/clear 50'

[Newps]

150flivver wrote:

>
>
> A 150HP engine makes a stock 150 a spritely performer but
> not sprite enough if you're overgross on a soft, high strip on a hot
> day! A 150/150 will outperform an older 172 so I don't know what Newps
> is talkin' about. VGs will help out a bit without the shock to the
> wallet a full STOL kit will have.

A 150/150 will not outperform a light 172. You don't have the wing for
it, that's your main problem. When she wrecked she was giving dual.
She decided that they weren't going to make it over the barbed wire
fence. The student then stabbed the brakes. Right over on its top it
went. It was probably about 60 degrees when it happened. VG's will
help any wing, are any approved on the 150?

[Newps]

Montblack wrote:

> ("wise purchaser" wrote)
>
>> I hold the airplane in ground effect untill the very end of the runway to
>> clear a 4 feet high Barbed wire fence then start a SLOW climb. ( by the
>> way, after the barb wire fence is a 2000 foot wide flat pasture that is
>> owned by my neighbor; all I have to do is get over the fence and I am all
>> right plenty of open space to set down on!!)
>
>
>
> I would ask the neighbor if it were alright to install (two) 30-ft sliding
> gates.

Just put in a cattle guard, that way you won't have to screw with it and
you eliminate your obstacle, no gate required. But christ your talking
about only being 5 agl after 1300 feet. That's crappy performance.

[tony roberts[_1_]]

If you are for real - which appears to be in doubt right now -
Lose the 150.
I wouldn't even fly my 172 off that strip in Summer.
Piper Cub? Maule? Husky? They would all be fun and safe off that strip.
Your plane will do it - most times - but for safety? lose it.
That's my advice

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE