Interesting "ILS or RNAV" procedure

[JPH]

Hadn't seen one of these before, but it's an ILS procedure that requires
GPS for the Initials, Intermediates, non-precision FAF, and missed
approach. Of course if you don't have ILS, no problem, just fly the RNAV
(GPS).
http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0610/00471IZR23R.PDF

JPH

[Brad[_1_]]

JPH wrote:
> Hadn't seen one of these before, but it's an ILS procedure that requires
> GPS for the Initials, Intermediates, non-precision FAF, and missed
> approach. Of course if you don't have ILS, no problem, just fly the RNAV
> (GPS).
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0610/00471IZR23R.PDF
>
> JPH


It's a Navy procedure. They do weird things like combining ILS and
TACAN procedures on the same chart. I guess the fighter guys don't
like FLIPping (pun intended) through several pages of charts for
different procedures to the same field.

You won't see this in a procedure developed by the FAA. By the way, if
you don't have GPS capability for this approach, just fly the 'Y'
procedure.

Brad

[Ron Natalie]

JPH wrote:
> Hadn't seen one of these before, but it's an ILS procedure that requires
> GPS for the Initials, Intermediates, non-precision FAF, and missed
> approach. Of course if you don't have ILS, no problem, just fly the RNAV
> (GPS).
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0610/00471IZR23R.PDF
>
> JPH
My hair is too long to fly that approach.

[Ron Natalie]

Brad wrote:

>
> You won't see this in a procedure developed by the FAA. By the way, if
> you don't have GPS capability for this approach, just fly the 'Y'
> procedure.
>
Huh? There are no identifiable IAF's if you don't have GPS.

The plate specifically says GPS required.

[Brad[_1_]]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Brad wrote:
>
> >
> > You won't see this in a procedure developed by the FAA. By the way, if
> > you don't have GPS capability for this approach, just fly the 'Y'
> > procedure.
> >
> Huh? There are no identifiable IAF's if you don't have GPS.
>
> The plate specifically says GPS required.

Sorry, Ron. I should have been more specific...the 'ILS Y or LOC/DME
23R' procedure, on a different chart...

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0610/00471IYLD23R.PDF

[karl gruber[_1_]]

GLide slope needle starts down?


Karl


"Mitty" > wrote in message
...
> Hmm... where do you intercept the glide slope? WASEB? And how would you
> know that?
>
> On 9/28/2006 9:31 PM, JPH wrote the following:
>> Hadn't seen one of these before, but it's an ILS procedure that requires
>> GPS for the Initials, Intermediates, non-precision FAF, and missed
>> approach. Of course if you don't have ILS, no problem, just fly the RNAV
>> (GPS).
>> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0610/00471IZR23R.PDF
>>
>> JPH

[Mitty]

Hmm... where do you intercept the glide slope? WASEB? And how would you know that?

On 9/28/2006 9:31 PM, JPH wrote the following:
> Hadn't seen one of these before, but it's an ILS procedure that requires
> GPS for the Initials, Intermediates, non-precision FAF, and missed
> approach. Of course if you don't have ILS, no problem, just fly the RNAV
> (GPS).
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0610/00471IZR23R.PDF
>
> JPH

[Mitty]

Well, yes. There's that. :-) I was thinking more about something on the chart,
like the intercept altitudes that I'm used to seeing.

On 9/29/2006 9:21 AM, karl gruber wrote the following:
> GLide slope needle starts down?
>
>
> Karl
>
>
> "Mitty" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hmm... where do you intercept the glide slope? WASEB? And how would you
>> know that?
>>
>> On 9/28/2006 9:31 PM, JPH wrote the following:
>>> Hadn't seen one of these before, but it's an ILS procedure that requires
>>> GPS for the Initials, Intermediates, non-precision FAF, and missed
>>> approach. Of course if you don't have ILS, no problem, just fly the RNAV
>>> (GPS).
>>> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0610/00471IZR23R.PDF
>>>
>>> JPH
>
>

[Sam Spade]

JPH wrote:
> Hadn't seen one of these before, but it's an ILS procedure that requires
> GPS for the Initials, Intermediates, non-precision FAF, and missed
> approach. Of course if you don't have ILS, no problem, just fly the RNAV
> (GPS).
>
No problem so long as you observe the higher minimums for LNAV.

[JPH]

Brad wrote:

>
> You won't see this in a procedure developed by the FAA.
>
> Brad
>

I wouldn't say that. Check out the new FAAO 8260.54 Chapter 1, Para 1.0
published in June of this year;
"..... These criteria support RNAV transition to an instrument landing
system (ILS) final approach."
You can download this reg at the following website;
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs400/afs420/policies_guidance/orders/media/8260.54.pdf

JPH

[JPH]

Mitty wrote:
> Hmm... where do you intercept the glide slope? WASEB? And how would
> you know that?
>

>> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0610/00471IZR23R.PDF
>>
>> JPH
1600 at GRAVY, that's where the lightning bolt appears.

[Scott Skylane]

JPH wrote:
> Brad wrote:
>
>>
>> You won't see this in a procedure developed by the FAA.
>> Brad
>>
>
> I wouldn't say that. Check out the new FAAO 8260.54 Chapter 1, Para 1.0
> published in June of this year;
> "..... These criteria support RNAV transition to an instrument landing
> system (ILS) final approach."
> You can download this reg at the following website;
> http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs400/afs420/policies_guidance/orders/media/8260.54.pdf
>
>
> JPH

Hallelujah! I've been hoping for approaches like that for a long time.
Much more efficient transitions to the final approach course.
Actually, we've been flying these kind of things for quite some time
(VMC of course!!!), just never figured that we'd see an "official" version.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

[Huck]

Very good jph that is what the lightning bolt is for!
Thank guys for bringing this approach to my attention this will be a
great plate to pullout on my instrument students. Thanks guys great
catch.
matt tiberii
cfi cfii
com asel ases amel

JPH wrote:
> Mitty wrote:
> > Hmm... where do you intercept the glide slope? WASEB? And how would
> > you know that?
> >
>
> >> http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0610/00471IZR23R.PDF
> >>
> >> JPH
> 1600 at GRAVY, that's where the lightning bolt appears.

[Sam Spade]

Scott Skylane wrote:
//www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs400/afs420/policies_guidance/orders/media/8260.54.pdf

>>
>>
>> JPH
>
>
> Hallelujah! I've been hoping for approaches like that for a long time.
> Much more efficient transitions to the final approach course. Actually,
> we've been flying these kind of things for quite some time (VMC of
> course!!!), just never figured that we'd see an "official" version.
>
> Happy Flying!
> Scott Skylane

You can fly any transition in the database to an ILS under IFR/IMC.
They are overlays of ground-based transitions so sometimes they are not
all that great. Transitions designed for RNAV to the localizer will be
a whole lot better.

Y'All,
After nearly 40 years of a Buchannan 7 departure procedure from Concord, CA
the Locals have found a way to reduce noise from the reseidential areas.
All procedures using the VOR are limited to one runway. All procedures
using about five different transitions must use the NDB which is having
continual maintenance problems. Shades of Chicago.
Gene Whitt