Commodious Sailplane?

[Jim[_6_]]

I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are proportioned
for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with commodious
cockpit dimensions?
Jim Hultman
6'3" 240 lb.
Just call me 'Falstaffian".

[Bruce Greef]

Jim wrote:
> I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are proportioned
> for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with commodious
> cockpit dimensions?
> Jim Hultman
> 6'3" 240 lb.
> Just call me 'Falstaffian".
>
>
Identical proportions - well same mass and length fits nicely in a Std Cirrus,
and Kestrel.

ASK21 and Grob 103 are also comfortable enough, if not neccessarily what you are
looking for.

Bruce

[Dave K]

Try an Astir CS. Much better performance than either of these twin
ships. The cockpit is so roomy I used to set up a picnic when I got
hungry during cross-country flights. Lots of room for me and I'm 6' and
200lbs. There was spare movement on the rudder pedal adjustment etc.

Dave Kearns

Bruce Greef wrote:
> Jim wrote:
>> I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are
>> proportioned
>> for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with
>> commodious
>> cockpit dimensions?
>> Jim Hultman
>> 6'3" 240 lb.
>> Just call me 'Falstaffian".
>>
>>
> Identical proportions - well same mass and length fits nicely in a Std
> Cirrus, and Kestrel.
>
> ASK21 and Grob 103 are also comfortable enough, if not neccessarily what
> you are looking for.
>
> Bruce

[[email protected]]

I am about the same, a little heavier. I have flown all schweizer
products, Nimbus 3 and Pegasus, both of those without seat pans. Also
LS-4, Standard Cirrus.

Sit before you buy.


> Bruce Greef wrote:
> > Jim wrote:
> >> I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are
> >> proportioned
> >> for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with
> >> commodious
> >> cockpit dimensions?
> >> Jim Hultman
> >> 6'3" 240 lb.
> >> Just call me 'Falstaffian".
> >>
> >>
> > Identical proportions - well same mass and length fits nicely in a Std
> > Cirrus, and Kestrel.
> >
> > ASK21 and Grob 103 are also comfortable enough, if not neccessarily what
> > you are looking for.
> >
> > Bruce

[Gary Emerson[_1_]]

Genesis has a huge cockpit.

Jim wrote:
> I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are proportioned
> for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with commodious
> cockpit dimensions?
> Jim Hultman
> 6'3" 240 lb.
> Just call me 'Falstaffian".
>
>

[[email protected]]

I have a Concept 70 - cockpit is as large as they come. I'm 6' and 240,
with several inches of rudder pedal adjustment left.

Ben Jeffrey
"MO"


Jim wrote:
> I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are proportioned
> for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with commodious
> cockpit dimensions?
> Jim Hultman
> 6'3" 240 lb.
> Just call me 'Falstaffian".

[KM]

Jim wrote:
> I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are proportioned
> for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with commodious
> cockpit dimensions?
> Jim Hultman
> 6'3" 240 lb.
> Just call me 'Falstaffian".

Jim, go sit in an ASW-20.Preferably a later model with the flip up
instrument panel.

K Urban

[[email protected]]

Jim,

You will have no problem fitting comfortably in a Genesis cockpit.


Robert Mudd


Jim wrote:
> I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are proportioned
> for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with commodious
> cockpit dimensions?
> Jim Hultman
> 6'3" 240 lb.
> Just call me 'Falstaffian".

[[email protected]]

It's surprising what you can fit in if you really want to! I'm 5-10,
about 250, and fit in my LS-6 perfectly. Of course, there is no room
to spare at all - forget folding a sectional inflight - and wearing
heavy clothes for winter or wave flying is probably out of the
question, but for where I fly (shorts and t-shirt, perhaps jeans and a
windbreaker) it works.

Makes it feel like an F-1 race car - no room to rattle around!

Ventus B's and LS-4s are huge by comparison.

A PIK-20, OTOH, is tight - narrow, which makes the flap handle hard to
use; and I haven't found a chute that I can wear in it.

The chute can make a big difference, so be sure include that in your
gear when you try a cockpit on for size.

Good luck!

66

[Jim[_6_]]

Yes; it's really as much a safety issue as comfort, as flap or spoiler
handles are usually pinned somewhere behind my knee. The stick's
range-of-motion can be impeded as well. The Std. Sirrus sounds good under
$20K. I'm searching out all others mentioned here as well.
Thanks to all who've posted!
Jim Hultman

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> It's surprising what you can fit in if you really want to! I'm 5-10,
> about 250, and fit in my LS-6 perfectly. Of course, there is no room
> to spare at all - forget folding a sectional inflight - and wearing
> heavy clothes for winter or wave flying is probably out of the
> question, but for where I fly (shorts and t-shirt, perhaps jeans and a
> windbreaker) it works.
>
> Makes it feel like an F-1 race car - no room to rattle around!
>
> Ventus B's and LS-4s are huge by comparison.
>
> A PIK-20, OTOH, is tight - narrow, which makes the flap handle hard to
> use; and I haven't found a chute that I can wear in it.
>
> The chute can make a big difference, so be sure include that in your
> gear when you try a cockpit on for size.
>
> Good luck!
>
> 66
>

[[email protected]]

Add LS-3 to the list; cockpit is nearly identical to the LS-4. I'm 6'3"
and there was more extension in the seatback and pedals in my LS-3.
Though I'm thin (180 lbs.), the cockpit is wide.

But pay attention to the parachute. That can make all the difference.
Even the thinner chutes are often thicker behind the shoulders tapering
as you go down from there. I need the exact opposite to get in my ASW
24 (i.e., reclining further helps).

Also know that removing the seatback is a time-honored remedy for
taller guys in gliders like the ASW 20. And sometimes there are other
steps possible if it's close and the airplane is perfect in every other
respect. My 24, for example, arrived from the factory without a
backrest and it has the rudder pedals extended a few cm and an
aftermarket instrument panel that has higher knee cutouts. Later ASW
models are more accommodating.

There have been many threads on this subject on this newsgroup. Go to
groups.google.com advanced search page and search RAS using terms such
as tall pilot, big cockpit, etc.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

[BT]

something I've not seen in all of the previous responses..
most of the foriegn built imported into the US gliders that I am familiar
with have a 110kg per seat loading.. that is 242 lbs US.

check the papers , w&b and max seat loading on anything you plan to buy

BT

"Jim" > wrote in message
news:ca0Wg.1916$La2.1639@fed1read08...
> I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are
> proportioned
> for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with
> commodious
> cockpit dimensions?
> Jim Hultman
> 6'3" 240 lb.
> Just call me 'Falstaffian".
>
>

[Bruce Greef]

BT wrote:
> something I've not seen in all of the previous responses..
> most of the foriegn built imported into the US gliders that I am familiar
> with have a 110kg per seat loading.. that is 242 lbs US.
>
> check the papers , w&b and max seat loading on anything you plan to buy
>
> BT
>
> "Jim" > wrote in message
> news:ca0Wg.1916$La2.1639@fed1read08...
>
>>I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are
>>proportioned
>>for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with
>>commodious
>>cockpit dimensions?
>>Jim Hultman
>>6'3" 240 lb.
>>Just call me 'Falstaffian".
>>
>>
>
>
>
Note that the 242lb is a seatbelt ultimate strength limit, not a weight and
balance issue. A little lead in the tail can sort that out easily.

Personally I doubt I would be interested in the difference between my seatbelt
failing at 15G or 14G, but if you want to fly a certified ship...

[Frank Whiteley]

It may be the seatbelt or anchor point structural limit and may not be
the W/B limit. It's derived from the JAR22 miniumum maximum
specification. Some airworthiness authorities do not recognize JAR22,
however they often do specify operating within the stated operating
manual/POH and placarded limits. Likewise, your insurance underwriter
might have some specific compliance limitations.

YMMV,

Frank Whiteley


Bruce Greef wrote:
> BT wrote:
> > something I've not seen in all of the previous responses..
> > most of the foriegn built imported into the US gliders that I am familiar
> > with have a 110kg per seat loading.. that is 242 lbs US.
> >
> > check the papers , w&b and max seat loading on anything you plan to buy
> >
> > BT
> >
> > "Jim" > wrote in message
> > news:ca0Wg.1916$La2.1639@fed1read08...
> >
> >>I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are
> >>proportioned
> >>for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with
> >>commodious
> >>cockpit dimensions?
> >>Jim Hultman
> >>6'3" 240 lb.
> >>Just call me 'Falstaffian".
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> Note that the 242lb is a seatbelt ultimate strength limit, not a weight and
> balance issue. A little lead in the tail can sort that out easily.
>
> Personally I doubt I would be interested in the difference between my seatbelt
> failing at 15G or 14G, but if you want to fly a certified ship...

[BT]

Frank.. I agree.. my books say 242# per seat.. period.. impact integraty for
the required g-impact rating for certification.. put a 300# person in the
seat.. you may be within W&B.. but not impact rating..
so long insurance
BT

"Frank Whiteley" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> It may be the seatbelt or anchor point structural limit and may not be
> the W/B limit. It's derived from the JAR22 miniumum maximum
> specification. Some airworthiness authorities do not recognize JAR22,
> however they often do specify operating within the stated operating
> manual/POH and placarded limits. Likewise, your insurance underwriter
> might have some specific compliance limitations.
>
> YMMV,
>
> Frank Whiteley
>
>
> Bruce Greef wrote:
>> BT wrote:
>> > something I've not seen in all of the previous responses..
>> > most of the foriegn built imported into the US gliders that I am
>> > familiar
>> > with have a 110kg per seat loading.. that is 242 lbs US.
>> >
>> > check the papers , w&b and max seat loading on anything you plan to buy
>> >
>> > BT
>> >
>> > "Jim" > wrote in message
>> > news:ca0Wg.1916$La2.1639@fed1read08...
>> >
>> >>I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are
>> >>proportioned
>> >>for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with
>> >>commodious
>> >>cockpit dimensions?
>> >>Jim Hultman
>> >>6'3" 240 lb.
>> >>Just call me 'Falstaffian".
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> Note that the 242lb is a seatbelt ultimate strength limit, not a weight
>> and
>> balance issue. A little lead in the tail can sort that out easily.
>>
>> Personally I doubt I would be interested in the difference between my
>> seatbelt
>> failing at 15G or 14G, but if you want to fly a certified ship...
>

[Gary Emerson[_1_]]

BT wrote:
> Frank.. I agree.. my books say 242# per seat.. period.. impact integraty for
> the required g-impact rating for certification.. put a 300# person in the
> seat.. you may be within W&B.. but not impact rating..
> so long insurance
> BT
>
> "Frank Whiteley" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
>>It may be the seatbelt or anchor point structural limit and may not be
>>the W/B limit. It's derived from the JAR22 miniumum maximum
>>specification. Some airworthiness authorities do not recognize JAR22,
>>however they often do specify operating within the stated operating
>>manual/POH and placarded limits. Likewise, your insurance underwriter
>>might have some specific compliance limitations.
>>
>>YMMV,
>>
>>Frank Whiteley
>>
>>
>>Bruce Greef wrote:
>>
>>>BT wrote:
>>>
>>>>something I've not seen in all of the previous responses..
>>>>most of the foriegn built imported into the US gliders that I am
>>>>familiar
>>>>with have a 110kg per seat loading.. that is 242 lbs US.
>>>>
>>>>check the papers , w&b and max seat loading on anything you plan to buy
>>>>
>>>>BT
>>>>
>>>>"Jim" > wrote in message
>>>>news:ca0Wg.1916$La2.1639@fed1read08...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I've been searching for a used sailplane for a month; most are
>>>>>proportioned
>>>>>for pilots not-so-large as me. Any recommendations for ships with
>>>>>commodious
>>>>>cockpit dimensions?
>>>>>Jim Hultman
>>>>>6'3" 240 lb.
>>>>>Just call me 'Falstaffian".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Note that the 242lb is a seatbelt ultimate strength limit, not a weight
>>>and
>>>balance issue. A little lead in the tail can sort that out easily.
>>>
>>>Personally I doubt I would be interested in the difference between my
>>>seatbelt
>>>failing at 15G or 14G, but if you want to fly a certified ship...
>>
>
>
Hmmm, you're within w&b, run into a downdraft, big sink, or rainshower
perhaps just as you're getting back to the gliderport, come up short of
the runway and break your bird. Being over 242 lbs. and therefore
exceeding the rating for the seat/seatbelts contributes to the accident
how???? I rather doubt that the insurance company would spend that much
time looking for reasons not to pay. For what it's worth, I've pranged
a glider and didn't get a single question from the insurance company
beyond "give us a description of what happened". If they were that
motivated to find discrepancies, I bet very few people would get payouts.

Now, if it was a passenger that was hurt in the accident and he/she was
over the seat rating, that would be a differnt case, particularly if
there was a seat/seatbelt related failure during the prang.

I don't see it happening in a single seater though.

[Guy Byars]

Oh for crying out loud! Anyone who is over 242# really needs to summon his
willpower and lose 30-40#, then the problem will be solved... along with
numerous other health problems.

Is self discipline no longer in fashion these days?


>> Frank.. I agree.. my books say 242# per seat.. period.. impact integraty
>> for the required g-impact rating for certification.. put a 300# person in
>> the seat.. you may be within W&B.. but not impact rating..
>> so long insurance
>> BT

[JS]

Guy Byars wrote:
> Oh for crying out loud!

Always amazed me that the 110kg limit stuck around with beer drinking a
national sport in Germany.

Jim,
I agree with the AS-W20 or 19 or B-fuselage Schempp (post-Ventus B),
or LS-3 or 4 ideas. There are probably great deals on 2900-hour Pegase,
too!
AS-W27/28 are as comfy as it gets, but I think you originally were
looking at Ka-6, so a far reach.
Many cockpits can be modified to suit taller pilots. For example, my
LS-6a (they appear at first to be too small for many pilots) got
something similar to the "Harry Wuentzel mod": Cut the headrest off and
bond it back on at more of an angle. This allows the seat back to be
reclined further. Also cut new holes higher up for the shoulder belts,
so they're comfortable if pulled tight against the 5th point. Suddenly,
it's a tall cockpit, although a little tight for wide shouldered
pilots.
Make sure you're doing mods to an "Experimental" glider.
Jim

[UFO]

I bet with all of the G forces when thermaling, it is easier to " dump
your balast" in a "commodious sailplane"?


John Sullivan

[Jim[_6_]]

Next thing you'll be telling me to stop driving my Navigator to McDonald's!
Looking forward 50 years, when Americans are average 6'6", I wonder who'll
be building our sailplanes?
But your real issue may be an assumption that trim people are 'sharper'
pilots. I welcome your proof, even if anecdotal.
Jim

"Guy Byars" > wrote in message
.. .
> Oh for crying out loud! Anyone who is over 242# really needs to summon
his
> willpower and lose 30-40#, then the problem will be solved... along with
> numerous other health problems.
>
> Is self discipline no longer in fashion these days?
>
>
> >> Frank.. I agree.. my books say 242# per seat.. period.. impact
integraty
> >> for the required g-impact rating for certification.. put a 300# person
in
> >> the seat.. you may be within W&B.. but not impact rating..
> >> so long insurance
> >> BT
>
>