Installation requirements IFR GPS

[Robert M. Gary]

I'm curious where the actual requirements are for installing an IFR
GPS. My local A&P says he knows an avionics guy who is semi-retired. I
wonder if I could install a 430 in my KX-170B hole and have him sign it
off. Would Garmin or any reseller sell me a 430 directly? For approach
approval would the avionics guy just need to sign off the demo flight,
what really is the reg for signing off an IFR GPS install?

-Robert

[BT]

Garmin will not sell directly.. only to their dealers..
IFR requirements include CDI indications to a standard CDI or HSI, cannot
use the on screen indicator,
also requires warning flags/lights within a certain "view pattern" of the
pilot.

Talk to a local Avionics intall shop.. also their is an AC on the FAA web on
GPS installations for IFR/VFR use.

BT

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm curious where the actual requirements are for installing an IFR
> GPS. My local A&P says he knows an avionics guy who is semi-retired. I
> wonder if I could install a 430 in my KX-170B hole and have him sign it
> off. Would Garmin or any reseller sell me a 430 directly? For approach
> approval would the avionics guy just need to sign off the demo flight,
> what really is the reg for signing off an IFR GPS install?
>
> -Robert
>

[Robert M. Gary]

BT wrote:
> Garmin will not sell directly.. only to their dealers..
> IFR requirements include CDI indications to a standard CDI or HSI, cannot
> use the on screen indicator,
> also requires warning flags/lights within a certain "view pattern" of the
> pilot.

I'm aware of that. I was more interested in what letters the person
must have behind their name to make the final signature in the log
book.

> Talk to a local Avionics intall shop.. also their is an AC on the FAA web on
> GPS installations for IFR/VFR use.

That's what I was afraid of. I was hoping to do much of the work myself
to save money but the local shops certainly will not do that. I though
perhaps a retired avionics guy could assist me and get it signed off
but it sounds like from what you are saying its not possible. ;(

-Robert

[Dave Butler[_1_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:

> I'm aware of that. I was more interested in what letters the person
> must have behind their name to make the final signature in the log
> book.

I don't think anyone has mentioned that you need an Approved Flight
Manual Supplement that has to be sent off to OK City for approval.

DB

[[email protected]]

You can easily install it and meet all the requirements. This
is a relatively simple job. There is lots of supporting data.

Your success will depend on whether this guy has any
standing with the FAA.

You can find out. Have him prepare the 337 and flight manual
ahead of time. Have him take it to the FAA avionics inspector.

If the feds will field approve it, you are golden.

Then the installation could begin and the money pump start.

Bill Hale (who's FSDO says: Nothing but an ELT for you, sonny!)

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I'm curious where the actual requirements are for installing an IFR
> GPS. My local A&P says he knows an avionics guy who is semi-retired. I
> wonder if I could install a 430 in my KX-170B hole and have him sign it
> off. Would Garmin or any reseller sell me a 430 directly? For approach
> approval would the avionics guy just need to sign off the demo flight,
> what really is the reg for signing off an IFR GPS install?
>
> -Robert

[BT]

robert.. did not want to sound defeatist..
any compentant IA can do (or certify) the install, there are guidelines to
be followed
Just review the information in the Advisory Circular,
get the paperwork done.
BT

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> BT wrote:
>> Garmin will not sell directly.. only to their dealers..
>> IFR requirements include CDI indications to a standard CDI or HSI, cannot
>> use the on screen indicator,
>> also requires warning flags/lights within a certain "view pattern" of the
>> pilot.
>
> I'm aware of that. I was more interested in what letters the person
> must have behind their name to make the final signature in the log
> book.
>
>> Talk to a local Avionics intall shop.. also their is an AC on the FAA web
>> on
>> GPS installations for IFR/VFR use.
>
> That's what I was afraid of. I was hoping to do much of the work myself
> to save money but the local shops certainly will not do that. I though
> perhaps a retired avionics guy could assist me and get it signed off
> but it sounds like from what you are saying its not possible. ;(
>
> -Robert
>

[Denny]

My FSDO is requiring that 'they' inspect and sign off every IFR GPS
install, especially the antenna, before it is legal to fly the
airplane... i.e. once the antenna is hung the airframe is no longer
airworthy until FSDO approved... Backyard mechanics need not apply as
the inspector is requiring a sign off by a 'licensed radio shop' before
he will make the drive to look at the ship... I don't know if this is
from OK City, or just a wild hair up this FSDO... I became aware of
this when I picked up a ship that had a new install... It was parked on
the ramp at the radio shop and the owner asked me to retrieve it while
he was out of town... The line boys know me and knew I was taking it
... Anyway, the owner got a panic call from the radio shop that his ship
was not legal to fly as the FSDO had not signed off yet, so I had to
quietly fly it back that night and let it sit another week before the
FSDO came around...

For the nit pickers, don't bother hyperventilating - yes it was also
not legal to fly back, but a phone conference with all involved decided
this was the best way to handle it...

denny

[Newps]

In the last couple years the FAA has determined that GPS installs are
minor alterations. Perhaps your FSDO didn't get the memo.



Denny wrote:
> My FSDO is requiring that 'they' inspect and sign off every IFR GPS
> install, especially the antenna, before it is legal to fly the
> airplane... i.e. once the antenna is hung the airframe is no longer
> airworthy until FSDO approved... Backyard mechanics need not apply as
> the inspector is requiring a sign off by a 'licensed radio shop' before
> he will make the drive to look at the ship... I don't know if this is
> from OK City, or just a wild hair up this FSDO... I became aware of
> this when I picked up a ship that had a new install... It was parked on
> the ramp at the radio shop and the owner asked me to retrieve it while
> he was out of town... The line boys know me and knew I was taking it
> .. Anyway, the owner got a panic call from the radio shop that his ship
> was not legal to fly as the FSDO had not signed off yet, so I had to
> quietly fly it back that night and let it sit another week before the
> FSDO came around...
>
> For the nit pickers, don't bother hyperventilating - yes it was also
> not legal to fly back, but a phone conference with all involved decided
> this was the best way to handle it...
>
> denny
>

[Robert M. Gary]

Its one thing for the FSDO to say that the GPS may not be suitable for
IFR operations, but its totally another thing to say the airframe is
unairworthly because you put an antenna on it. Just ridiculous.
-Robert

Denny wrote:
> My FSDO is requiring that 'they' inspect and sign off every IFR GPS
> install, especially the antenna, before it is legal to fly the
> airplane... i.e. once the antenna is hung the airframe is no longer
> airworthy until FSDO approved... Backyard mechanics need not apply as
> the inspector is requiring a sign off by a 'licensed radio shop' before
> he will make the drive to look at the ship... I don't know if this is
> from OK City, or just a wild hair up this FSDO... I became aware of
> this when I picked up a ship that had a new install... It was parked on
> the ramp at the radio shop and the owner asked me to retrieve it while
> he was out of town... The line boys know me and knew I was taking it

[[email protected]]

There's a lot of competition to be the worst FSDO.
So there's lots of variation.

Standing is the key. If you don't have it, you will
have a very hard time.

That AC does make it sound like a minor alteration.
But it doesn't say anything about the approved flight
manual. It is written for people of standing. Still a 337
required around here.

Remembering Rule #1 will help: "It doesn't have to
make sense!"

I once got a one shot STC for a homebuilt 3 axis
autopilot. I'd hate to imagine what that would take
now. It was hard 20 years ago.

Bill Hale Denver area

Newps wrote:
> In the last couple years the FAA has determined that GPS installs are
> minor alterations. Perhaps your FSDO didn't get the memo.
>
>
>
> Denny wrote:
> > My FSDO is requiring that 'they' inspect and sign off every IFR GPS
> > install, especially the antenna, before it is legal to fly the
> > airplane... i.e. once the antenna is hung the airframe is no longer
> > airworthy until FSDO approved... Backyard mechanics need not apply as
> > the inspector is requiring a sign off by a 'licensed radio shop' before
> > he will make the drive to look at the ship... I don't know if this is
> > from OK City, or just a wild hair up this FSDO... I became aware of
> > this when I picked up a ship that had a new install... It was parked on
> > the ramp at the radio shop and the owner asked me to retrieve it while
> > he was out of town... The line boys know me and knew I was taking it
> > .. Anyway, the owner got a panic call from the radio shop that his ship
> > was not legal to fly as the FSDO had not signed off yet, so I had to
> > quietly fly it back that night and let it sit another week before the
> > FSDO came around...
> >
> > For the nit pickers, don't bother hyperventilating - yes it was also
> > not legal to fly back, but a phone conference with all involved decided
> > this was the best way to handle it...
> >
> > denny
> >

[Ron Natalie]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I'm curious where the actual requirements are for installing an IFR
> GPS. My local A&P says he knows an avionics guy who is semi-retired. I
> wonder if I could install a 430 in my KX-170B hole and have him sign it
> off. Would Garmin or any reseller sell me a 430 directly? For approach
> approval would the avionics guy just need to sign off the demo flight,
> what really is the reg for signing off an IFR GPS install?
>
You need an IA. The installation requires a field approval or STC
(don't get me started). You will need to fly the test flight to
fininalize the installation. You really need an avionics guy
who is (or has access to) an IA who has done this before.

[Ron Natalie]

Dave Butler wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>> I'm aware of that. I was more interested in what letters the person
>> must have behind their name to make the final signature in the log
>> book.
>
> I don't think anyone has mentioned that you need an Approved Flight
> Manual Supplement that has to be sent off to OK City for approval.
>
> DB
It doesn't have to go to joklahoma, just your local ACO.

[Roy Smith]

In article om>,
" > wrote:

>
> Remembering Rule #1 will help: "It doesn't have to
> make sense!"

And also remember the FAA's motto, "We're not happy until you're not happy!"