Filing with a STAR

[Paul Tomblin]

I'm going to be flying from ROC to BAF weekend after next. Just plugging
the end points into Aeroplanner gives me a nice simple route V2 ALB V146,
but I see that BAF has a STAR, SWEDE ONE. It's a bit longer than the
simple route, and since I've never flown that direction I don't know if I
should file what I want and expect them to reroute me along SWEDE ONE, or
should I just admit the inevitable and file SWEDE ONE? If I do that, how
do you put it in a flight plan? Is it V2 SYR V433 RKA RKA.SWEDE1?


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
The same thing we do every night Tux. Try to take over the world!

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, (Paul Tomblin) said:
>should file what I want and expect them to reroute me along SWEDE ONE, or
>should I just admit the inevitable and file SWEDE ONE? If I do that, how
>do you put it in a flight plan? Is it V2 SYR V433 RKA RKA.SWEDE1?

Oh, and I just noticed the note for STELA that says "Expect to cross at
11,000". I don't think I want to climb that high.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Please accept my resignation. I do not want to belong to a club that
would have me as a member." - Groucho Marx

[[email protected]]

Paul Tomblin wrote:

> I'm going to be flying from ROC to BAF weekend after next. Just plugging
> the end points into Aeroplanner gives me a nice simple route V2 ALB V146,
> but I see that BAF has a STAR, SWEDE ONE. It's a bit longer than the
> simple route, and since I've never flown that direction I don't know if I
> should file what I want and expect them to reroute me along SWEDE ONE, or
> should I just admit the inevitable and file SWEDE ONE? If I do that, how
> do you put it in a flight plan? Is it V2 SYR V433 RKA RKA.SWEDE1?
>

You don't need to state RKA twice, and you need to connect with dots::

V2.SYR.V433.RKA.SWEDE1

>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
> The same thing we do every night Tux. Try to take over the world!

[[email protected]]

Paul Tomblin wrote:

> In a previous article, (Paul Tomblin) said:
> >should file what I want and expect them to reroute me along SWEDE ONE, or
> >should I just admit the inevitable and file SWEDE ONE? If I do that, how
> >do you put it in a flight plan? Is it V2 SYR V433 RKA RKA.SWEDE1?
>
> Oh, and I just noticed the note for STELA that says "Expect to cross at
> 11,000". I don't think I want to climb that high.

Does it state on the STAR "For Turbojets?"

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, said:
>Paul Tomblin wrote:
>> In a previous article, (Paul Tomblin) said:
>> >should file what I want and expect them to reroute me along SWEDE ONE, or
>> >should I just admit the inevitable and file SWEDE ONE? If I do that, how
>> >do you put it in a flight plan? Is it V2 SYR V433 RKA RKA.SWEDE1?
>>
>> Oh, and I just noticed the note for STELA that says "Expect to cross at
>> 11,000". I don't think I want to climb that high.
>
>Does it state on the STAR "For Turbojets?"

Nope. But three of the four transitions say "are high altitude only".
And SWEDE says "Expect to cross at or below FL230".


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic
simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we
can assume it will be pretty bad. -- Dave Barry

[Robert M. Gary]

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message >...
> I'm going to be flying from ROC to BAF weekend after next. Just plugging
> the end points into Aeroplanner gives me a nice simple route V2 ALB V146,
> but I see that BAF has a STAR, SWEDE ONE. It's a bit longer than the
> simple route, and since I've never flown that direction I don't know if I
> should file what I want and expect them to reroute me along SWEDE ONE, or
> should I just admit the inevitable and file SWEDE ONE? If I do that, how
> do you put it in a flight plan? Is it V2 SYR V433 RKA RKA.SWEDE1?

Its pretty rare that a STAR is actually given to a non-jet aircraft
though. Usually they want us away from the STAR so we don't get in the
way.

-Robert

[C Kingsbury]

I'm guessing the STAR is there to avoid conflicts with jet traffic from
Bradley (BDL) to the South. I'd just file to BAF and expect vectors from
Bradley Approach. Of course, if you want to know for sure, you could take
out the A/FD and call Bradley and ask.

-cwk.

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, said:
> >Paul Tomblin wrote:
> >> In a previous article, (Paul Tomblin) said:
> >> >should file what I want and expect them to reroute me along SWEDE ONE,
or
> >> >should I just admit the inevitable and file SWEDE ONE? If I do that,
how
> >> >do you put it in a flight plan? Is it V2 SYR V433 RKA RKA.SWEDE1?
> >>
> >> Oh, and I just noticed the note for STELA that says "Expect to cross at
> >> 11,000". I don't think I want to climb that high.
> >
> >Does it state on the STAR "For Turbojets?"
>
> Nope. But three of the four transitions say "are high altitude only".
> And SWEDE says "Expect to cross at or below FL230".

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, (Robert M. Gary) said:
(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message
>...
>> I'm going to be flying from ROC to BAF weekend after next. Just plugging
>> the end points into Aeroplanner gives me a nice simple route V2 ALB V146,
>> but I see that BAF has a STAR, SWEDE ONE. It's a bit longer than the
>Its pretty rare that a STAR is actually given to a non-jet aircraft
>though. Usually they want us away from the STAR so we don't get in the
>way.

Ah, interesting. My only experience with STARs is flying into Ottawa
(CYOW), where they want me on CYRIL ONE every time. (And in that case, I
don't know if it's a cross border issue, but FSS won't let me file either
the waypoint CYRIL or the CYRIL ONE arrival, so I file direct from ART and
get a re-route as soon as I start talking to Wheeler Sack approach.
Fortunately I've already got it in my GPS because I've ready for them.)


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Outside of a dog, a good book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog,
it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx

[Dan Luke]

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:
> Its pretty rare that a STAR is actually given to a non-jet aircraft
> though. Usually they want us away from the STAR so we don't get in the
> way.

That seems to depend on the local way of doing things. I've been given the
Trinity One STAR going into Houston many times, although recently it's been
an abbreviated version. Memory is dim, but I'm pretty sure I got a STAR
into Atlanta once, too.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[[email protected]]

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

> Its pretty rare that a STAR is actually given to a non-jet aircraft
> though. Usually they want us away from the STAR so we don't get in the
> way.

Depends where you're at.

[John Clonts]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message om...
> (Paul Tomblin) wrote in message >...
>> I'm going to be flying from ROC to BAF weekend after next. Just plugging
>> the end points into Aeroplanner gives me a nice simple route V2 ALB V146,
>> but I see that BAF has a STAR, SWEDE ONE. It's a bit longer than the
>> simple route, and since I've never flown that direction I don't know if I
>> should file what I want and expect them to reroute me along SWEDE ONE, or
>> should I just admit the inevitable and file SWEDE ONE? If I do that, how
>> do you put it in a flight plan? Is it V2 SYR V433 RKA RKA.SWEDE1?
>
> Its pretty rare that a STAR is actually given to a non-jet aircraft
> though. Usually they want us away from the STAR so we don't get in the
> way.
>
> -Robert

We almost always get the BLUBELL 1 STAR going into a variety of airports in the Houston area, from the
Northwest, whether we file for it or not.

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

[Brenor Brophy]

Its pretty common to get the FERNANDO FIVE arrival into Santa Monica coming
in from the north.

-Brenor

[Brad Salai]

I'm still studying for the rating, so I've never done this, but can't you
just say "no SIDS, no STARS" in the remarks, and they can't give it to you.

Brad
"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> I'm going to be flying from ROC to BAF weekend after next. Just plugging
> the end points into Aeroplanner gives me a nice simple route V2 ALB V146,
> but I see that BAF has a STAR, SWEDE ONE. It's a bit longer than the
> simple route, and since I've never flown that direction I don't know if I
> should file what I want and expect them to reroute me along SWEDE ONE, or
> should I just admit the inevitable and file SWEDE ONE? If I do that, how
> do you put it in a flight plan? Is it V2 SYR V433 RKA RKA.SWEDE1?
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
> The same thing we do every night Tux. Try to take over the world!

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Brad Salai" > said:
>I'm still studying for the rating, so I've never done this, but can't you
>just say "no SIDS, no STARS" in the remarks, and they can't give it to you.

If they want you along the STAR, then all this will mean is that you will
have to copy and read back a full route clearance (which will look
suspiciously like the textual description of the STAR) instead of the name
of the STAR.

I've never understood why anybody would want to say "no SIDS, no STARS"
(or more correctly now, "no DPs, no STARS"?) unless they want practice
copying and reading back full route clearances.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"An appointment is an engagement to see someone, while a morningstar is a
large lump of metal used for viciously crushing skulls. It is important not
to confuse the two, isn't it, Mr. --?" - Terry Pratchett

[Roy Smith]

"Brad Salai" > wrote:
> I'm still studying for the rating, so I've never done this, but can't you
> just say "no SIDS, no STARS" in the remarks, and they can't give it to you.

That's a bit of sillyness left over from long ago. Assuming anybody
even notices the comment, they'll just assign you the full STAR route,
but instead of giving it to you as a STAR, they'll spell out each
individual waypoint and altitude. End result: more work for you, more
work for the controller, more radio bandwidth wasted, same clearance to
fly.

[Peter MacPherson]

I think it's because they have a misconception that they won't be
given the DP/STAR if they put "No DP/No STAR" in the comments
section. I think if they realized they were going to get it anyway,
they wouldn't do it.


"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Brad Salai" > said:
>>I'm still studying for the rating, so I've never done this, but can't you
>>just say "no SIDS, no STARS" in the remarks, and they can't give it to
>>you.
>
> If they want you along the STAR, then all this will mean is that you will
> have to copy and read back a full route clearance (which will look
> suspiciously like the textual description of the STAR) instead of the name
> of the STAR.
>
> I've never understood why anybody would want to say "no SIDS, no STARS"
> (or more correctly now, "no DPs, no STARS"?) unless they want practice
> copying and reading back full route clearances.
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> "An appointment is an engagement to see someone, while a morningstar is a
> large lump of metal used for viciously crushing skulls. It is important
> not
> to confuse the two, isn't it, Mr. --?" - Terry Pratchett

[zatatime]

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:40:29 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

>I've never understood why anybody would want to say "no SIDS, no STARS"


Before they were incorporated into the approach plates you had to buy
a separate SID/STAR book. Some people didn't do it because it cost
more (which is silly), and my home base didn't carry them.

HTH.
z

[PaulH]

"Brad Salai" > wrote in message >...
> I'm still studying for the rating, so I've never done this, but can't you
> just say "no SIDS, no STARS" in the remarks, and they can't give it to you.

I did that on a recent trip to KLUK Cincinnati and the clearance
included a STAR anyway. I think sometimes this is for lost commm
purposes: about half way en route they cleared me direct to LUK and
finished with vectors.

[Matthew Chidester]

>
> That's a bit of sillyness left over from long ago. Assuming anybody
> even notices the comment, they'll just assign you the full STAR route,

one reason we would put "no sids or stars" is because of the high alt. they
required which would be a problem for oxygen (for example here in Utah the
jammn four arrival puts you up at 16,000), performance wise we couldn't do
it as well as regs for o2 for crew.

usually when we did this they would clear us direct to the points or (if I
can remember) they would say "stay clear of terrain" which is basically
vectoring you and you're responsible for what's below.. (it's been awhile)

basically it's a good thing to put in if you cannot fly at those altitudes.

Matthew

[Peter R.]

Robert M. Gary ) wrote:

> Its pretty rare that a STAR is actually given to a non-jet aircraft
> though. Usually they want us away from the STAR so we don't get in the
> way.

Fly into Boston's Logan Airport from the west and you will always
receive the Gardner Three arrival. Well, perhaps in the wee hours of
the morning prior to sunrise you might not, but during sunlight and into
the evening you will.

--
Peter

[Peter R.]

Paul Tomblin ) wrote:

> I'm going to be flying from ROC to BAF weekend after next. Just plugging
> the end points into Aeroplanner gives me a nice simple route V2 ALB V146,
> but I see that BAF has a STAR, SWEDE ONE. It's a bit longer than the
> simple route, and since I've never flown that direction I don't know if I
> should file what I want and expect them to reroute me along SWEDE ONE, or
> should I just admit the inevitable and file SWEDE ONE?
<Snip>

Having flown most of my filed IFR flights in the Northeast US, I have
discovered that the simplest method when filing to an unfamiliar airport
is to file whatever flight plan I want, sans STAR or DPs.

If ATC needs me to fly a STAR and/or a different route, they will
include it in the clearance. At that point, I note it in my growing
list of "real preferred IFR routes" notebook for next time, when my goal
is to receive a "Cleared to XXX as filed." :)

--
Peter

[G Farris]

In article >,
says...
>
>Robert M. Gary ) wrote:
>
>> Its pretty rare that a STAR is actually given to a non-jet aircraft
>> though. Usually they want us away from the STAR so we don't get in the
>> way.
>
>Fly into Boston's Logan Airport from the west and you will always
>receive the Gardner Three arrival. Well, perhaps in the wee hours of
>the morning prior to sunrise you might not, but during sunlight and into
>the evening you will.
>


Fly your prop job into Logan from the East, and you'll receive a STAR!!

G Faris

[Peter R.]

G Farris ) wrote:

> says...
> >
> >Robert M. Gary ) wrote:
> >
> >> Its pretty rare that a STAR is actually given to a non-jet aircraft
> >> though. Usually they want us away from the STAR so we don't get in the
> >> way.
> >
> >Fly into Boston's Logan Airport from the west and you will always
> >receive the Gardner Three arrival. Well, perhaps in the wee hours of
> >the morning prior to sunrise you might not, but during sunlight and into
> >the evening you will.
> >
>
>
> Fly your prop job into Logan from the East, and you'll receive a STAR!!

I've never come in from the East (as in, the Atlantic?), but I am sure
you are correct.

--
Peter

[Robert M. Gary]

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message >...
> In a previous article, "Brad Salai" > said:
> >I'm still studying for the rating, so I've never done this, but can't you
> >just say "no SIDS, no STARS" in the remarks, and they can't give it to you.
>
> If they want you along the STAR, then all this will mean is that you will
> have to copy and read back a full route clearance (which will look
> suspiciously like the textual description of the STAR) instead of the name
> of the STAR.
>
> I've never understood why anybody would want to say "no SIDS, no STARS"
> (or more correctly now, "no DPs, no STARS"?) unless they want practice
> copying and reading back full route clearances.

They used to cost extra.

-Robert

[Andrew Sarangan]

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in news:cke6l8$nru$1
@allhats.xcski.com:

> In a previous article, (Paul Tomblin) said:
>>should file what I want and expect them to reroute me along SWEDE ONE, or
>>should I just admit the inevitable and file SWEDE ONE? If I do that, how
>>do you put it in a flight plan? Is it V2 SYR V433 RKA RKA.SWEDE1?
>
> Oh, and I just noticed the note for STELA that says "Expect to cross at
> 11,000". I don't think I want to climb that high.
>
>



You can always say unable to climb to 11,000, but for lost comm purposes if
you are not prepared to climb that high, don't file the STAR. What I would
do is file ROC V2 ALB V130 BDL. This route is almost exactly the same as
the STAR.


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[Teacherjh]

>>
You can always say unable to climb to 11,000, but for lost comm purposes if
you are not prepared to climb that high, don't file the STAR.
<<

Or, file the STAR, but make clear when you read back your clearance what
altitude you will climb to upon lost comm. Get them to confirm. You only fall
back on the flight plan absent a clearance.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)